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131. Sublingual Ketamine Part 2, With Dr. Rachel Wilkenson and Dr. Mitch Liester
Today I have Dr. Mitch Liester back on, along with Dr. Rachel Wilkenson. They both talk about micro-dosing sublingual ketamine and how it is the most effective treatment for neuropsychiatric disease they these two physicians have seen in 40 years and 18 years of experience respectively. Please listen to hear more. Thank you.
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131. Sublingual Ketamine, With Dr. Rachel Wilkenson
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Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: [00:00:00] Sublingual ketamine, especially microdosed, is possibly the most effective neuropsychiatric medication I've ever experienced in my 18 years of full time psychiatric practice, working with severely treatment resistant neuropsychiatric cases. I have one case, a woman, who was diagnosed with posterior cortical atrophy.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So the back of her brain was shrinking. She also came with a psychiatric diagnosis of bipolar one disorder, even with the motor gene, she developed a seizure like episodes. So we stopped everything that I had traditionally used and considered ketamine. And to this day, she has returned to her job. She is performing extremely well in the job that she had before she became disabled from posterior cortical atrophy.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And she is able to walk unassisted without a cane. She's able to talk [00:01:00] fluently, including, uh, giving lectures. So she's had a dramatic turnaround and is so excited about her story that she's sharing it with everybody that she can.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: well, thank you for joining me again. I first want to give a shout out to my Patreon supporters. We've got Too tough giving $30 a month. We've got the anonymous family donor giving $20 and 20 cents a month. We have the pandemic reprimand tier giving $17 and 76 cents a month with Ty, Charles, tinfoil Stanley, Dr. Anna, Frank, Brian, shell, Brantley, and Gary, we've got. Kevin and Patton Bev giving 10 a month. We've got the Refined Not Burned level at 5 a month with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. Addison Mulder is giving 3 a month, and Frank is giving 1. 50. And then we have the Courageous Contagious at 1 a month with Jay Spessnasty, Darrell, Susan, B. B. King, Caleb and Sharon. I want to thank you all for helping me get these out. I truly appreciate it. It's helping me fight this legal fight I have against the government. Also, please check out [00:04:00] mycleanbeef. com slash after hours. That's mycleanbeef. com slash after hours for some of the best beef that I've ever had.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So next, I want to welcome back Dr. Mitch Leister and Dr. Rachel, uh, Wilkinson. Thank you so much for coming on and joining me again, uh, I've had so much good reviews of the, the last episode that you and I, Dr. Leister did, and, and about ketamine. So I want to have your, your colleague, uh, that you, you mentioned in the last episode we did, and I want to hear more about the ketamine.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well,
Dr. Mitch Liester: thank you, Sam. Thanks for inviting us both on, and I have to tell you that, uh, Rachel's the brains in this group. She was the one that discovered the protocol we're using, and it's been, Doing it for years before I even learned about it. And she's kind of guided me and helped me through. So I'm really thrilled she's gonna come and talk to you about her experience, uh, which is pretty extensive with the ketamine.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I kind of, you meant . I really appreciate you've been so supportive throughout.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How did you first hear about using [00:05:00] ketamine in this way?
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Uh, I ran to upload a deal of my patients who stopped making the kind of progress that would allow them to go back into the work setting. They start focus and attention and the ability to problem solve. We call that group of, um, brain functions, executive skills. And I thought at 1st, the best that I could do was to use a long acting stimulant, like, Which I did at first, and that only was effective, I want to say, for about six to nine months with a lot of my serally treatment resistant patients, on top of their other medications to control inflammation.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So they had made progress with sleep and mood stability and just could not advance any further with their cognition. So I went back to the National Library of Medicine, many know it as PubMed. com, where [00:06:00] Archives of almost all the studies across the world are available for free to look through. And I searched for mechanisms to heal brain tissue.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We call that neuroregeneration. And I found academic work surrounding ketamine, which I had heard of in other settings. And was a little bit fearful about. I was trained traditionally, uh, by a very talented psychopharmacologist. And in the traditional world, we had considered ketamine a substance of abuse.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So something that was abused on the streets. So I hadn't really dove into using ketamine until I found that literature about neuroregeneration in animals. And Of around the same time, one of my very talented professors, Dr. Sheldon Prescorn from the University of Kansas came into the city to give a talk on intranasal esketamine or spravato, and he was very positive about it.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I was [00:07:00] impressed and I thought, well, I'd like to give that a try. However, at my clinic. We had so many limitations with staffing. We prioritized the underserved, and so that lends its own challenges in the clinical setting. I didn't have the kind of support needed to provide spravato, which specifically would mean patients had to come into the clinic every dose Wait for two hours after the dose because it was used, uh, quite high doses.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Spravato is 50 percent bioavailable in the intranasal form. IV is 100 percent available and then sublingual is 30 percent available. So it's very potent and the patients need about two hours to have the wear off effect where they feel comfortable going home and they can't drive themselves home and they must be supervised.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: By clinical staff for that two hour period. We didn't have a room that they could be supervised in. I didn't have [00:08:00] staff to help them administer the dose. So I started looking for other options and found one paper from the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry on sublingual ketamine and treatment resistant depression.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And it was not exactly the program that I use now, but it gave enough guidance that I had a sense that it could be compounded in sublingual form. Most of the administration, almost regardless of format, including sublingual and IV, are intermittently dosed, so not daily. That's where I started, and then gradually developed the protocol that we use now.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Based on about a year of clinical experience, and I've been prescribing sublingual ketamine for ease of use, cost savings, it's much cheaper than the other forms of ketamine, and after a prolonged period of time, I've learned that Sublingual ketamine appears to be quite safe [00:09:00] in multiple types of patients.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So, I have become very comfortable using it, and I, and Mitch probably knows this too, I see mostly treatment resistant patients. If the standard treatments for psychiatric conditions were to be effective for them, most, at least in my clinic, I work among primary care providers. Would not need my help. So they are treatment resistant to begin with and ketamine is a medicine that I often use now
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's amazing. Let's let's get into the PowerPoint that you sent to me and If we could go through all that because I think there's a lot of really great information there as well
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Okay, so this is a relatively short slide deck, but it gives you an overview of I've entitled it Sublingual Ketamine, and you'll see Dr.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Leister and my name there at the bottom. I will go through several basic concepts to [00:10:00] build on this idea of using ketamine, um, and then give some case reports as well. So before I start into the case report, we'll go to the disclaimers. You see my credentials there and Dr. Lester's I'm an integrated psychiatrist Embedded in a primary care and internal medicine setting so I manage my own traditional caseload where I see patients face to face Also, I work with the other types of doctors who are not psychiatrists with their psychiatric cases helping them to manage without direct Psychiatric support and that's been going really well.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: It's a lot of fun. The doctors are receptive and learning a lot. The standard disclaimer, this is for educational purposes and just an overview next of sublingual ketamine and our agenda for today. So we'll start with the case reports. I'll go over the specifics of the protocol [00:11:00] with pictures of how the medication is prepared and compounded.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And then discuss basic concepts of neuroregeneration and neurodegeneration. We will go over other psychoplastogens briefly, and then I'll outline the background that led to me. Going down this road with ketamine. So I'll start with my case report. I began working with a young person in their twenties on Medicaid, my bread and butter in the clinic is Medicaid patients.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Often they are challenged with poverty and multiple types of illness, not just mental illness. But I chose this case because it's very clear and how it gives an example of the ability of ketamine to help restore cognitive function. This patient was isolating in their room, would not leave their house, behaved as though they were afraid often, even around their own family members.[00:12:00]
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They lost the ability to smile, it seemed, according to the patient and the family members. They had no desire to engage in hobbies. They seemed incapable of having joy or fun. They were retreating to self medication through cannabis and alcohol, which is not uncommon. And they had been diagnosed in high school with dyslexia, auditory processing disorder, barely graduated high school, and had a very low sense of confidence.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They had no desire to get a job, were not interviewing for a job, so this is a very sad person brought in by their family. They had engaged with psychiatric care before I met them and been diagnosed with multiple conditions. So, on the next slide, you'll see they were diagnosed with major depressive disorder that learning disability.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I mentioned with dyslexia and auditory processing disorder. Post traumatic stress disorder, cannabis use disorder, and they were impoverished. The [00:13:00] treatments they had tried included serotonergic agents, but those made their anxiety worse and actually caused suicidal thoughts and worsened them. So those medications were discontinued.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And when they came to me, they were already on gabapentin. And bupropion, also known as Welbutrin. The family were very frightened of any medication changes in one sense. They did not want to discontinue the medication the patient was on, because they remembered how bad they were before. However, they also knew the patient was not doing well on the medication.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So, we were challenged with this idea of what else could we do in addition to their current psychiatric medication and not make things worse. The prognosis of this type of patient before I discovered ketamine was very poor. These patients with very high anxiety and little ability to enjoy life, low confidence, [00:14:00] usually meant that they would lead a life of prolonged disability, stay on Medicaid, and struggle with their occupational efforts.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Many times as well, they would not advance in the various stages of their life into relationships, building a family and so forth. So this is a very hopeless looking patient at first. We discussed the option of ketamine. They researched what I gave them. There's a detailed informed consent process we go through because ketamine That I use the sublingual form is off label.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: The FDA has not recommended sublingual ketamine. However, they have recommended intranasal S ketamine for treatment resistant depression. Once the family were in agreement to start sublingual ketamine, we worked through that informed consent process and began a low dose. The patient tolerated it fairly well and stayed on a low dose of around 25 [00:15:00] milligrams.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We raised it to 50 milligrams and then waited. This patient did not come in often to the clinic, about every three to six months. And over the course of two years, their presentation really turned around. So next slide, we will discuss what they looked like after two years. After two years, at the age of 23, this patient was reducing cannabis use.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Also using nicotine, no longer using alcohol. They went back to college, uh, did very well, were elevated to the dean's list, won a national award for academic work. And had been accepted at a prestigious program in their area of academic interest in an out of state university. By the time I saw them two years later, I want to say I visited with them probably three to four times over that period.[00:16:00]
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Each subsequent visit, they started making eye contact, smiling a little bit, uh, becoming more fluent with their speech and their facial expressions and their. It began to appear at least like they're learning disability was slowly melting away. Family confirmed this. They were also leaving home regularly and we're ready to move out of state and go to college.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They were vibrant and we're helping their parents and their siblings every day on the next slide. I'll just expand their historic diagnoses. Uh, they no longer criteria for they did meet criteria ongoing for generalized anxiety disorder. And they were reducing the doses of both psychiatric medications and the cannabis, like I mentioned.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So, it seems with this patient, like the dose of 50 mg sublingual ketamine was really serving them well. They did not have any suicidal thoughts within weeks of starting the ketamine. [00:17:00] And then the remaining symptoms slowly improved over that two year timeframe. And just in the last one to two weeks, we had our closing visit.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They were very thankful, um, and had learned a lot about psychiatric medications, very confident, made good eye contact and were smiling during the whole, uh, Clinic time that we spent together. So now the prognosis is completely turned around. I believe this patient will do very well. They're excited about their life.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I would estimate if I were following this patient long term, which I can't do because they're moving out of state. that they will continue to taper off of their traditional psychiatric medications, stay on the sublingual ketamine for probably another several years. I do have patients now who've been on ketamine for about three to four years, and they're tapering even off of that ketamine dose after getting off of their old traditional medications and want to see if they're able to [00:18:00] maintain their mental health Basically, with the very strong, uh, pro health lifestyle, clean diet, filtered water, um, enriched social life.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So, their ultimate goal is to come off of almost all synthetic medications. And I support them in that. Obviously, we give them informed consent. With and without treatment and they always know if they start to struggle again that we could restart ketamine So in the next slide, sorry sam. I lost my earbud pause there
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: in the next slide. You will see a picture of ketamine powder these pictures were sent to me by our compounding pharmacist who's been very Enthusiastic about this project and has said to me and I'm sure to Mitch as well [00:19:00] that they can see visible signs, uh, of the patients improving as they come in to get their medicine from month to month.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So the ketamine powder starts like this next slide here. You see in a beaker, the solidified mixing compound that the ketamine powder will be dissolved in that is melted and then it's mixed together. Here you see the mixing tools on the next slide, and on the next slide, once the mixture is complete, it will be loaded into a pipette and then dispensed in this blue tray of squares, which we call trochies.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Initially, it's a thick liquid, and then this cools to a soft, waxy consistency, which the patients can easily cut down to size. Usually I'll have the patients quarter [00:20:00] it, and the standard dose is 100 milligrams per trochee, 100 milligrams per square. And I will have them start off at about a quarter of that or 25 milligram dose, and we'll go into detail further in just a second.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So next slide there, you see the completed tray where the product has solidified, but there's a machine from the light where you can see that it has hardened. And this is what patients will sometimes put in their refrigerator, carry it around. It can melt, so they know that they have to keep it cool enough not to melt.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Next slide. We will go over the standard sublingual ketamine protocol. So as I mentioned before, each square is approximately 100 milligrams, and it dissolves slowly under the tongue or in the mouth. Often patients will put it between their cheek. and their gum line and just slowly wait for it to melt, which takes [00:21:00] about 20 to 30 minutes.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They began about a quarter trochee every three days for four doses, and that tends to be 25 milligrams and then take that 25 milligrams every other day for four doses. The four doses mark seems to be about what patients need to adjust to the new dose. Uh, and they will notice initially after taking it that they feel a little bit dizzy and then that dizziness subsides and then they raise the dose.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: After the second series of four doses, they will start to take the medication daily if they tolerate it. And from that point on subsequent visits, we discuss titrating the dose, increasing the dose. Sorry, my nose is running by 25 milligrams every two to four weeks up to a maximum daily dose. Thanks. Of 175 milligrams a day.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: That's the highest I go. Generally, I do have 2 patients on [00:22:00] 200 milligrams and they are both over 6 foot 5 over 250 pounds. The absorption of the ketamine again, sublingual form is between 25 and 30 percent the total dose. So that 175 milligrams, um, I think it's around 50 or so milligrams. Maybe next slide.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Lab monitoring for this medication. So initially with the research that I found on the National Library of Medicine, there were indications that overdose of ketamine led to acute kidney failure. So I watched the kidneys pretty closely, especially when I started this project with our pilot group of patients.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And then palpitations. So heart palpitations, fast heart rate was experienced by some of the patients right after taking the medicine and seemed to escalate to about the 30 minute mark after the dose. And those that had this side effect, [00:23:00] I did not find The heart palpitations to limit the use of the medication.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I mainly saw palpitations in the patients with preexisting cardiac disease. They had palpitations to begin with. The ketamine seemed to make it a little bit worse. Initially I was so cautious. I sent them back to their cardiologists. They already had established care with to get medical clearance. And every single one came back with medical clearance by their cardiologist to continue the treatment.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So the heart patients have done quite well. Patients with pre existing kidney disease, chronic kidney failure, in other words, where, uh, one lab that we watch with doctors called the glomerular filtration rate was around 35, somewhere in there. I'm more cautious with. Those patients can have lower glomerular filtration rates with too high of a dose of ketamine.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So, typically I will reduce the dose and make sure that, uh, their kidney [00:24:00] physicians, their specialists are also monitoring them with me. In a couple cases, especially if patients are not, you know, As good at hydration, not as good at drinking water. We will stop the ketamine and then consider restarting if their kidneys look to be improving.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So by and large, the monitoring of ketamine is pretty easy. We do get baseline labs as we would for any traditional medication. Those would be like a thyroid panel, comprehensive metabolic panel to check the kidney and liver and electrolytes, uh, uh, complete. Blood count. Uh, sometimes I'll also get drug screening on my patients.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We have a lot of cannabis used here in Colorado and I found that There can be an interaction between THC and ketamine, namely increased cardiovascular side effects like heart palpitations and then increased risk of illusions and possibly [00:25:00] visual hallucinations. So ketamine when it Is too highly dosed will cause visual distortions.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I have found borderline psychosis, which we would define as hallucinations and delusions in my field. I personally believe that once the patient has those early signs of psychosis, they've already had a toxic dose. So I do not like high doses of ketamine. And I had to learn that through this project.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Before I started the sublingual ketamine, and I had reviewed the National Library of Medicine literature, I thought that IV ketamine was very similar in efficacy to intranasal, which was very similar in efficacy to sublingual. The difference I thought beforehand was in the time to improvement. I had assumed that the higher dose intravenous was faster to lead to improvement than intranasal.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And then intranasal is faster than sublingual. But what [00:26:00] I have found actually is the low dose, the micro dosing of ketamine over a prolonged period of time, months, has led to the most long lasting, gradual improvements that do not seem to regress. Whereas my patients that we referred out to clinics that did the IV and intranasal, like we couldn't, did not fare as well.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They might have had. Short term improvements in their side. Sorry symptoms. However, that was not long lasting and after their treatment protocols were finished Especially the IV treatment protocols which were very short term and high cost their symptoms of depression Returned moving on the same slide on the ketamine protocol.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I'll make a Notation of pregnancy. So I do not use ketamine in pregnancy. There are no studies out indicating efficacy. I'm not [00:27:00] inclined to believe that it's safe because it can alter blood pressure and blood pressure in, uh, Pregnancy is something that's very closely monitored, especially with the condition we know as preeclampsia, where blood flow is compromised through the placenta.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And this can compromise the baby's access to healthy blood supply. We do get EKGs if necessary on patients with preexisting cardiac disease. If patients report palpitations, I'll also get an EKG, but otherwise most patients tolerate this dosing schedule. There is one group of patients that needs a lower dose.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And for those patients, I continue the same schedule a quarter. Every three days and then every two days, but I use the compounding dose per trochee instead of 100. I'll go down to 25. So it's 1 4th, the standard dose and that group of [00:28:00] patients would be my severe autoimmune disease patients. They're just more sensitive to medication and they do quite well.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: It just takes a lower dose initially and eventually they tolerate a higher dose. The cost of ketamine is worth noting, especially sublingually, because it's very affordable. Even for Medicaid patients who are impoverished, especially when they find how well it works for them, many on fixed income are willing to pay the cash price because insurance does not cover this.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: It is off label. And locally, I believe the cost started around 25 a month. And now, uh, we have a higher cost of living here in Colorado. I believe the prices have increased up to about 40 a month, especially at the higher dose end.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Moving on. I want to describe several concepts about how the brain has, uh, seemed to work. [00:29:00] Now, brief comment here. Traditional psychiatry has been built on the use of descriptions of symptoms and then grouping of those symptoms into syndromes. And then an assumption that those syndromes are a disease. I believe personally this is our best historic attempt at explaining what's very difficult to understand as far as brain function by how a person is feeling or behaving.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So this is the type of paradigm or pattern of practice that I had to work through to get to ketamine. What do I mean by that? My view of traditional psychiatry is that it's been a very outside in attempt at understanding the brain. Understanding the brain by behaviors of a person or a person's self reported symptoms.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: When I encountered Difficulty helping patients [00:30:00] improve their condition beyond what I was trained to do. Essentially, when they became so treatment resistant and all the wizardry of psychopharmacology that I learned in training wasn't enough to help them, I looked at the brain in a different way. I started asking myself, what if a lot of psychiatric symptoms actually begin in the cells?
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: What if this is an inside the cell problem? And how do we help the brain cells function better? If they're not functioning well. So that is more of an inside out disease pattern understanding. And that's what helped me find ketamine. Initially I had to get through this. understanding of how brain cells get sick, and we call that neuroinflammation.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So in this first slide of concepts, you'll see a description of neuroinflammation, very basic description where cell stress. So brain cell stress leads to this process. [00:31:00] We call glutamate toxicity, which is where the neural hormone glutamate, which is the main activating hormone in the brain rises so much that it causes the cell to be overexcited.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And if that remains uncontrolled, the cell can actually die. If enough cells die, and I'll go on to the next slide here, it can cause brain scarring, which can in some cases be visible on PET scans, certain types of brain scans, and then ultimately this leads to a decrease in a person's ability to function.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Not just psychiatrically in their emotions, but also in neurologic ways, certainly with cognition. So their memory starts to worsen. They're not able to focus. They're not able to problem solve or be useful in the work environment. So I had to understand that process before I understood how we could try to help heal cells.[00:32:00]
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: In a lot of treatment resistant psychiatric conditions, I believe, especially the more severe kinds like bipolar one disorder and schizophrenia, it's been documented that repeat brain scans will show shrinkage of the brain because of cell loss and the scarring process. So we know cells are struggling and dying, and we did not necessarily know how to help them stabilize or perhaps even regenerate.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Then, uh, ketamine. So I'll move on to the next slide. Ketamine is a neuroregenerative compound, it turns out. This has been shown in animal models. We call it also a psychoplastogen. When I entered medical school in the year 2000, I believe it was at Cambridge, There was a study that showed brain cells could regrow.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They were in the hippocampus, uh, but it was a very exciting time. And now 24 years later, uh, I feel [00:33:00] as though we are entering a different phase of neuropsychiatric understanding. And broadly, I believe the professions will understand together and start to practice in a different way where we expect. More recovery, we have more hope for patients, whereas in the past, patients might have been told the brain cannot heal.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So how does the brain heal with these cycloplastogens? Cycloplastogens, including ketamine, increase a hormone called brain derived neurotrophic factor, or BDNF. This is also referred to, colloquially, as miracle grow for the brain. And it helps brain cells regrow. Make more connections between styles. And I have one case and it's very exciting case of a woman who was diagnosed with posterior cortical atrophy.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So the back of her brain was [00:34:00] shrinking. She also came with a psychiatric diagnosis of bipolar one disorder. She did not tolerate any traditional psychiatric medication, not even one that I commonly use for neuroinflammation called the motor gene, which reduces glutamate inside of cells and raises glutathione.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We tried. Several different psychiatric medications, even with Lamotrigine, she developed, uh, seizure like episodes. So we stopped everything that I had traditionally used and considered ketamine. She's a very intelligent woman, understood the process of informed consent. We started a low dose of ketamine.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And she was one of my patients who did respond like an autoimmune encephalopathy patient or an autoimmune brain disease patient where the immune system starts to attack different parts of the brain. So we used very low doses. She only tolerated 25 milligrams at first. We [00:35:00] started this, I want to say, about four years ago.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So she was one of my first patients on this medication. At the standard period of time that psychiatrists are trained to watch for changes, which would be around three months. So if you start a serotonin med, we kind of wait for changes for three months. She didn't notice anything, but we talked very candidly and realized together that we didn't have many other options.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So we decided to continue the ketamine treatment. Around the ninth month, she started noticing that she was seeing better. Her symptoms neurologically included loss of vision. So when I first met her, she was unable to write. Her script looked like cuneiform in size 200 or something, and she could not walk well and assisted.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: She had very distorted visuospatial senses, and she struggled to speak fluently. She would have halting speech and [00:36:00] have word finding problems. So at the ninth month mark, she told me, she said, Doc, all right. So she said, I think I'm seeing better, doctor. We both consider this to be very strange because it's, Really not common to have a patient's vision improve.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: She had been following with a neuro ophthalmologist and was doing testing. I want to say every three months and sure enough, her vision had been improving. Her neurologist locally also noticed improving neurologic function as he was following her and we had a conversation about her case. She and I continued the ketamine and about 18 to 24 months into her treatment on the 25 milligrams of ketamine, She started tolerating a higher dose.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We slowly increased around 40 milligrams a day. And then she said, Doc, [00:37:00] I've been disabled for so long. I rely on my elderly mother to help me out at the home. And, uh, I don't see this as sustainable. But I'm feeling so strong in myself. I wonder if I could try to go back to work. And this patient was highly educated, had a doctorate, and was very hesitant and worried for her because I wasn't sure she would be successful, but together we made a plan with an exit strategy if needed.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And she went for it. And to this day, she has returned to her job. She is performing extremely well in the job that she had before she became disabled from posterior cortical atrophy. And she is able to walk unassisted without a cane. She's able to talk fluently, including, uh, giving lectures. And she's able to write extremely well.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Her handwriting is much better than mine. It's perfect [00:38:00] So she's had a dramatic turnaround and is so excited about her story that she's sharing it with everybody that she can. So this is what I have seen clinically, uh, on her MRI scans as well. Her neurologist noted that there appeared to be thickening of the cortex, which I would tend to interpret as regrowth of nervous tissue.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We've had two other neurologists look at her scans just to make sure. You know, we weren't imagining this and they also agree that there's something very interesting and unusual going on. And along with her clinical signs and symptoms, this needs to be, um, investigated further and possibly written about and shared with the profession.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So it's a very exciting case. I never expected. To see anything like this, of course human studies are few and far between at this point. But I would [00:39:00] summarize my experience with this case and over the four years to say that sublingual ketamine, especially micro dosed, is possibly the most effective neuropsychiatric medication I've ever experienced in my 18 years of full time psychiatric practice, working with severely treatment resistant patients.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: neuropsychiatric cases. Also on this slide, I just want to point out the picture. On the top, you'll see a neuron. We call it a control, a neuron without ketamine. On the bottom, you'll see the neuron with ketamine, and you'll see a lot more little buds forming. Call these dendrites or little tree like extensions or branches.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: that reach out to other neurons. And that's how learning often occurs is when you learn something new, you have new little dendrites, new branches that reach out and touch one another and create networks. So this is an animal model, I believe, [00:40:00] not a human one. We aren't in the tradition of taking brain biopsies on humans and studying them.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: But clinically, I believe this is similar to what happened to that patient. Next slide. There are other psychoplastogens that we are starting to research. You may know that in the state of Colorado, psilocybin has been decriminalized. So I've included that in the list. Although I do consider psilocybin to be fairly high risk in my patient population, it is highly serotonin based, and this can lead to an increased risk of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, emergence of mania.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I do have patients who've developed schizophrenia from excess psilocybin use, and there is certainly a toxicity risk for all, I think, of these, but specifically psilocybin and ketamine. Even ketamine, if you get too high of a dose, can cause psychosis, and what I believe are signs of neurotoxicity. Other [00:41:00] psychoplastogens that may not require Prescription would be lion's mane mushroom.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: This you can get over the counter in supplement form. You can also possibly grow it. I know there are some stores here locally that teach patients to, or um, clients. To grow their own, uh, supply. That's a whole other topic, probably for another day. And then tiger milk mushroom. There are probably up to 100 other different mushroom or fungal based compounds.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: That help increase secretion of this brain derived neurotrophic factor. And help lead to nervous system or nervous tissue regrowth. Next slide, I'll just briefly describe how I got here. Where the ideas from the protocol came from again, I was working in a setting where there's just tough psychiatric patients, lots of treatment resistance.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: The traditional models, the traditional medications were not enough to help them feel [00:42:00] good. I think at one point when I really started this journey, it was about 10 years ago. And I realized as the lead psychiatrist in a community psychiatric clinic, we were getting patients from the Department of Corrections, the state hospitals, even with all my training and all the wizardry with psychiatric medication that I was taught, uh, only 50 percent were responding.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And by response, I don't mean that they were necessarily Good. I think they were less bad, but they had these persisting cognitive problems, signs of neuroinflammation, and they were developing side effects from a lot of their psychiatric medications, which we know can include risk of, uh, insulin resistance, weight gain, metabolic disease.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And in general, psychiatric patients who have severe disease are expected to live 25 years, uh, less. And [00:43:00] the typical non psychiatric patient. Why is that? Is that just because of the mental illness? Or is it because of long term use of psychotropic medications that carry side effects? We don't really understand, but that's a foreboding.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Um, statistic. So these are the clients that I was working with and it motivated me to look beyond the traditional models into neuroscience, asking more inside out questions, like how do we help cells stabilize and then regrow? So, this is then, um, again, the trail that I kind of followed through the National Library of Medicine to find the underpinnings of neuroinflammatory disease, which were glutamate toxicity and cellular scarring and cellular death, and then neuroregeneration with the help of brain derived neurotrophic factor.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And I just want to say, you know, for my colleagues, uh, there's hope for patients who've [00:44:00] struggled with very little progress with traditional psychiatric treatments. We're always learning new things. We are at a very exciting time. These psychoplastogens are being researched in high level academic facilities, like the university of California Davis.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And, uh, I'm so excited to be a psychiatrist right now. So that's my story. And then Mitch listened to me and started his own use of the medication. And has seen very similar results with many of his cases, which has been just a thrill for me. And now I think our little group has expanded to, gosh, Mitch, maybe seven other providers in the community.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And we're hearing about other providers across the country figuring this out too.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Yes, Rachel, we just had an eighth, uh, provider last weekend, uh, psychiatrist called me and asked if I could show him how to, [00:45:00] uh, use the ketamine in this way because he's having some treatment resistant patients and it heard about the good results we're having. So, yes, more psychiatrists are learning about this, not only here in our area, but.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Around the state and other states as well. So it is growing also with Rachel's help We recently published a case report of a patient who had treatment resistant depression and borderline personality disorder Who's totally now in remission no longer meets criteria for either disorder with just 25 milligrams of ketamine daily So there's still a lot to learn but with Rachel's guidance and experience.
Dr. Mitch Liester: We're all learning And our patients have been wonderful at giving us feedback. So we're very excited to see where this is going to go.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is amazing. I mean, everything you've said is just like my, my jaw has just been sitting on the table here. Just like, this is incredible. It truly is amazing, Sam. And
Dr. Mitch Liester: I was just going to say, Rachel, you know, and Rachel's been doing this for a while.
Dr. Mitch Liester: I'm much older and I haven't been doing it for as long as she has, but it's the most exciting thing that I've experienced in my almost four year career in psychiatry. I've never seen results like we're getting with ketamine. [00:46:00] So I'm, I'm eternally grateful to Rachel and to my patients for being willing to try this treatment and to give, uh, ongoing feedback because they continue to teach me about additional benefits this medicine that I wasn't even aware of.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Rachel, I have a question for you. You mentioned, and Mitch mentioned this in the last episode I had him on, that it's like miracle growth for nervous tissue. Now, is that only? Let's say central nervous tissue, is that only, um, the brain or could that be central nervous tissue like the spinal column, could that be peripheral nerves, could that be, um, nervous tissue inside of muscles, i.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: e., you know, like for paresthesias or even for, uh, let's say myocarditis and changes that have happened after people have gotten certain things injected into them. What are your thoughts on that?
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I don't know for sure, but my guess would be both the central and the peripheral nervous system would show responsiveness to BDNF or similar growth factors.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We have had observation of several [00:47:00] cases with neuropathy where the neuropathy improved. Neuropathy would be defined as pain in the extremities due to breakdown of the nervous tissue. So this improved over time and was also mirrored by increased function of those nerves. So if there were any types of movement problems that we observed, at least superficially, I don't think anything like severe spinal cord injury that we've been able to follow yet, but certainly more minor cases like, um, Mitch, I believe, had a case of neuropathy in the hand that reversed, and a patient gained sensation and function.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: But Mitch, you might be able to clarify your observations. I would say both central and peripheral nervous system benefits.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Yeah, Sam, I've had at least eight patients now spontaneously report that their peripheral neuropathy has improved. This is typically a peripheral neuropathy in the feet and it can involve pain, numbness, um, tingling.
Dr. Mitch Liester: And these are patients who spontaneous report. I wasn't asking about it. And [00:48:00] the other person Rachel was referring to is actually my sister. It was in a motor vehicle accident 30 years ago and had damage to her left ulnar nerve, which comes from the neck down the elbow down to the hand and her pinky finger and ring finger were numb for 30 years.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Her doctor put her on ketamine for a different reason and suddenly she can feel these two fingers for the first time in 30 years. So there certainly can be improvement in peripheral nerves, um, as well as central nervous system nerves, but to what extent is still to be discovered.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm thinking complex regional pain syndrome, I'm thinking, uh, you know, peripheral neuropathy from diabetes.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It seems like those could all be, uh, could have some benefit from this.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Yes, Sam. In fact, my sister has complex regional pain syndrome, which has been shown to respond to IV ketamine. So when her doctor put her on it for, um, put her on the ketamine for CRPS, um, she did report that her feet had been numb for years and she regained feeling in her feet [00:49:00] related to the CRPS. So yes, I think there are many other potential applications.
Dr. Mitch Liester: We just need some bright, uh, physicians to start exploring this and finding out other potential benefits.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt again, but I have so many questions. Um, have you used this in patients that have dementia? Have you used this in patients with, uh, autism? Have you used it in patients with, uh, I mean, obviously, depression, PTSD, um, dyslexia, I think you mentioned.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Can you, can you run down a list of patients off the top of your head that have improved from these, this medication?
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Yeah, Dr. Spigaloff, amazing. When I first started this project, I narrowed my population down to what the FDA had worked with, uh, in indicating scruvato, which is the treatment resistant depression group.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And with comfort and observation over time, I introduced it as an option for some of my most severely treatment resistant patients with other conditions. You mentioned [00:50:00] PTSD, autism, ADHD, dementia. Patients who had essentially no hope had exhausted almost all traditional therapies to this point. And one by one, I would say, uh, the vast majority of psychiatric diagnoses that I have worked with have responded.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: It does take longer than traditional therapies. I think that's because it is an intracellular and, uh, actual kind of cellular regrowth. Model versus a hormonal or extracellular modification model, which traditional psychiatry was built on. So it takes, you know, between nine months and three years to see dramatic clinical results.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: However, it seems to be long lasting the limitations. I see with ketamine at this time, after four years of working with the sublingual microdosing daily microdosing form would be more advanced. cases of autism, advanced cases of dementia. I don't [00:51:00] see the same kinds of improvements as I do with those early dementias.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: That patient case that I, uh, brought up with a posterior cortical atrophy, that is a form of dementia. That's like Alzheimer's at the back of the brain. We usually see it with more academically educated and successful patients. For some reason, their frontal lobes and their medial lobes seem to be a little bit resistant to the inflammatory.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Process, um, patients with diabetes, uh, who've had cognitive problems, memory problems related to diabetic disease. I think diabetes has been very closely related with dementia, and sometimes dementia is called insulin resistance of the brain. So multiple types of neuropsychiatric disease. I struggle even in this moment to think of a psychiatric illness that I have used it on that has not responded.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Um, Mitch, you might have more feedback there, too.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Yes, [00:52:00] just to build on what Rachel's saying, um, one of the joys of using this medicine in people with bipolar disorder is that it does not seem to trigger mania like some of the conventional antidepressants. That has made it much easier and safer to use. I would also add, um, seeing some success in a patient with a traumatic brain injury who had significant improvement.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Um, with the low dose sublingual ketamine. Um, so I think, Sam, there's probably a wealth of, uh, diagnoses or problems that may respond to this treatment. It's just a matter of having more providers utilizing it. Since Rachel and I together may have treated, I don't know, maybe at this point, five to seven hundred patients.
Dr. Mitch Liester: But I think once people start doing clinical trials or have more clinical experience with this, we're going to see a growth of additional, uh, problems that may respond to this treatment.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I want to add one more thing to one of the more dramatic recent findings I've had is the responsiveness of long term schizophrenic cases.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: There's this term negative symptoms, so [00:53:00] lack of motivation, lack of, uh, emotional engagement or attunement that usually comes with long term neuroinflammatory disease. That's a hallmark of advanced schizophrenia, you know, people not being able to speak clearly, dress themselves, tend to their hygiene, much less read a book or watch a movie.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Their dramatic cognitive decline is one of the most limiting factors of their disability later in life, especially over like the 7 to 10 year mark of their diagnosis. So I have two cases now that have finally settled down, and by that I mean their inflammation has calmed, they're sleeping well, their hallucinations are under control, where we tried a low dose of ketamine to see if it helped their cognition, and we Something amazing is happening with them.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Uh, the mother caretaker of one in particular said, you know, I haven't even seen my son read in over 15 years. And now he's not [00:54:00] only having deep conversations with me, he asked for an encyclopedia set. And now he's sitting down in his room reading through this encyclopedia. Uh, so we are seeing return of cognition, return of the ability of patients to care for themselves.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Another patient, similar story, but seven year history of schizophrenia again, six months ago, wasn't able to dress himself or keep a daily schedule. Now is dressing himself, keeping a daily schedule, reminding his mother when they leave the house. Uh, asking if she forgot her keys, her money, or her phone. He knows what medications he takes.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: He's tending to his hygiene. He's getting bored at home. So we're seeing return of some of these beautiful functions of these brains that were lost due to chronic inflammatory disease. And that's very exciting. That's been after years and years of treatment. So they would not have tolerated ketamine at first.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: It would have been too activating. Once [00:55:00] patients seem to be able to sleep well, the other signs of inflammation are stable. Their hallucinations are under control. For example, their mood is stable. Then we add in a low dose of ketamine and both are on 25 milligrams a couple times a week. So really low doses.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And they're showing those improvements within months.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's just absolutely mind boggling. That's just amazing. I mean, this is such a miracle drug. What do you do for your patients that let's say are so Disfunctional or at such a, a low functionality, I guess, um, that they may not be able to keep it in their cheek or their tongue or underneath their tongue.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Is there, is there any way that you can help them keep it sublingual rather than swallowing it and not being able to absorb the medication?
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: You know, I don't think I've ever heard of such a case. I think they all seem to tolerate it. I do have patients complain that the, uh, taste is not that good, but [00:56:00] once they see how well it's working, they're more than willing to inflict the taste on themselves on a daily basis. Mitch, do you have any experience of patients not tolerating the sublingual form?
Dr. Mitch Liester: No, I have not had anybody stop it because of that. Also, some people mentioned the taste, but I've not had anybody stop the medicine because of the taste. Um, and really, if they don't tolerate, it's usually because the dose is just too high. We reduce the dose and they usually find a dose that works fine for them.
Dr. Mitch Liester: And some people, as Rachel mentioned earlier, are able to tolerate very low doses and it works well. I have a couple of patients on six milligrams every three days. And there was a study out of Brazil done about 11 years ago, where they gave people only 10 milligrams. Um, every two to seven days and saw benefits for depression.
Dr. Mitch Liester: So I think the dose response is one of the keys, Sam. And if, if they're not tolerating it, oftentimes it's just too high of a dose.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I have a patient who, um, it's not that he doesn't tolerate it. It's that he does what he wants to do. Cause he's, he's [00:57:00] more like a five year old, I would say. And he, he likes it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then he swallows it.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Well, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. The bioavailability is a little lower. If they swallow it, maybe 20 percent instead of 30%, but they still get the medicines. They just may need. To just the dose over time. So if people swallow it, it's not necessarily a lost cause.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Cause he's, he's already noticed improvement doing it every three days. His caretakers already noticed a great improvement, which is just amazing. Wonderful. What things do you want to leave us with here? As we wrap up towards the end, uh, where can people find you or find your research? Where can people support you if they're able to?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, and you know, if someone wants to reach out to you, what's a good way to get ahold of either of you. And if you don't want to give your personal email, that's perfectly fine too.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Yeah, Sam, I probably won't give my email or my phone. I'm a single mom. So, um, [00:58:00] Mitch, I'll let you chat about that in a minute.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I would just say, our work is available on ResearchGate. It's a website that archives almost all the research done, even across the world, as an open source. So if you search my name online on ResearchGate, you'll find the research we've done so far. The same is true if you search Dr. Mitch Leister's name on ResearchGate, you'll find all of our work.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Mitch is much better at responding to correspondence, so I will let him share how he would prefer to be contacted.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Sure, and Sam, I'm happy to have people contact me via email. My email address is d r dot l i e S T E R, so it's doctor. leister at proton, P R O T O N dot M E. So if people want to email, uh, with any questions they have or experiences they have, I'm glad [00:59:00] to correspond with them.
Dr. Mitch Liester: And share any information they have.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I just want to encourage everybody. If you do reach out to Dr. Leester, uh, please don't ask for specific medical advice. He obviously cannot provide it. You're not a patient of his, but if you're asking for direction or, um, you know, guidance, how can I find a provider?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How can I find more research to give to my provider? Uh, if you're able to provide this particular video to your provider and see if that helps them, um, those are the type of questions to be asking. Thank you, Sam. Well, thank you so much, Rachel and Mitch for coming on. I truly appreciate this. This has just been a huge blessing for so many people that y'all have been able to reach out and touch and improve their life.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is just absolutely amazing. Thank you so much. Sam.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Dr. Sigaloff. I've really appreciated this time and it's a great period in history to Work in neuroscience, and I think there's so much hope in the future, far more than I ever imagined. [01:00:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, Dr. Wilkinson, Dr. Leister, thank you so much. And, you know, uh, I pray that you continue to see results like this with patients in the future, and that more patients, uh, throughout the country will see this video and be able to get this type of treatment if needed.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If it's the right fit for them. Thank you so much.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Thank you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there. Due to uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from River Bend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones. Never been given antibiotics. Never been given mRNA [01:01:00] vaccines. It's raised in the U. S. A. It's processed in the U. S. A. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Which means that they own the cow. It gives birth to the calf. It's raised on their fields. And then taken to their butcher. And then shipped to you. And if we compare What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. That's MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours.
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135. Dr. Bryan Ardis on Ozempic
Today I talk with Dr. Bryan Ardis about Ozempic. We talk about the dangers of the medication. We talk about his new book which you can get here: https://thedrardisshow.com/book.
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If you would like to purchase better than grass fed and grass finished beef that will never get mRNA injections, never get growth hormones and never get antibiotics check out mycleanbeef.com/afterhours
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135. Dr. Brian Ardis on Ozempic
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Dr. Bryan Ardis: [00:00:00] They are actually seeing exponential explosions in metastatic breast cancer diagnoses after starting ozympic and Wigovi and it's never mentioned in any of their scientific literature or any of the FDA documents, nothing. They do not mention this breast cancer warning. They are seeing 100 percent of the cancer.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Victims on Ozempic and Wigovy with these new cancer diagnoses. It's not thyroid cancer they're all coming up with. Male and female alike are coming in being diagnosed with breast cancer diagnoses. That are metastatic. You might want to lay off of Ozempic and Wigovy.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch. Which always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones. Never been given antibiotics. Never been given anything. mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically [00:01:00] integrated, which means that they own the cow that gives birth to the calf.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it. It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Check out MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. That's MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. If you've noticed I've been wearing this t shirt for a few episodes now, I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.[00:02:00]
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you'll be encouraged to question everything. And to have the courage to stand for the truth. And now, to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you for joining me again. I hope you have a wonderful day. First, I want to give a shout out to all of my Patreon supporters. I've got 2TUF giving 30 a month. I have an anonymous family donor giving 20. 20. We have the Plandemic Reprimando level, with Ty, Charles, Stanley, Dr. Anna, Frank, Brian, Shell, Brantley, Gary, and Janine. We have Kevin Alanos and Pat and Bev giving 10 a month. We have the Refine Not Burn level, with Linda, Emmy, Joe, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Don, Ken, Rick, Joe, Mary and Amanda. Addison Mulder is giving 3 a month. And Frank is giving 1. 50. And in the Courage is Contagious tier at 1 a month with Jay Spesnasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, Caleb, and Sharon.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I also [00:03:00] want to remind everybody to check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. It's some of the best, uh, better than ground beef. grass fed, grass finished beef I've ever tasted. So my guest today is Dr. Brian Artis. Now, sir, you have been at the leading edge of this COVID debacle since the beginning.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I've had you on early on. You talked about um, some of your theories, which I think are very close, if not completely accurate on the COVID. You're also coming out with a new book, Moving Beyond the COVID 19 Lies, Restoring Health and Hope for Humanity. I encourage everyone to get a copy of that when it comes out.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, how have you been? It's great to talk to you again.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: It's great to talk to you. Like I mentioned off air, the beard is rocking, dude. Keep it going, man. I'm very proud of you. And, uh, very, very awesome to hear you give a, you know, some acknowledgement to those who are actually helping to support the platform.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And, uh, I appreciate the, the faith you have in your audiences, the faith on the individuals you have come on your platform to share truth, uh, and at least things that they are learning to bring [00:04:00] attention and awareness to things that otherwise they may not get in the mainstream. So. Very, very, very excited to be here.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: It's been a very busy last four years for me personally, uh, that has culminated with once the COVID 19 pandemic was declared no longer an emergency, only then would I entertain the idea of putting together a book and putting together all of my research for the last four years to try to summarize what should be all the lessons I believe everybody should know, and then of course, the subtitle is Restoring Health and Hope for Humanity.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: There are over a hundred now listed long COVID suffering symptoms that have been compiled into a document by our government in 2024. In chapter 14 of the book that just went on pre sales last week, it actually starts shipping next week, which is great. The printer's actually shipping them out on Friday of this week.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I just want everybody to know that in chapter 14, I show you The cause of a hundred percent of all COVID 19 long COVID termed symptoms that people are still struggling with today. And it [00:05:00] explains every single published talked about alluded to vaccine injury to the COVID 19 vaccines are all. pinpointed with research backed evidence and references to what are the causes for your symptoms and your suffering.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Chapter 15 is all the medical tests that should be considered, all the drugs that should be considered as possible solutions and antidotes for the medical professionals, and all the natural solutions for every single published medical test I outline in that book to help Solve the riddle for why it is so many people are not free of symptoms and continue to be slaves to their suffering.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That sounds amazing. I got to get my copy. I'm going to order it once we get off of here, because that sounds like it's got good education for me as a provider, but also patients should be looking into this
Dr. Bryan Ardis: doc, the number one request I asked of everybody, and I will send you a copy. I will send you a free copy.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: You don't even need to buy one.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you. And if you want to buy them, great.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: But I'm just going to tell you, I'm actually encouraging everybody. to buy one copy for themselves and [00:06:00] an additional, at least singular copy to give to their healthcare provider. They love admire and respect because there has been a massive effort to make sure they don't get this information.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: So as much as we can help ourselves and our homes, households and individuals that are in our homes. How much more powerful would it be to give a document that outlines hope for all patients of your acupuncturist, chiropractic herbalist, uh, yoga instructor, whoever your medical doctors, your DOs, your OBGYNs, get them a copy because I have answers and possible solutions.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: For every single aspect of any symptom that people are struggling with since the beginning of 2020. If you are suffering now with a new medical diagnosis since 2020, the answer is in chapter 14 as to why. I actually show you exactly why it is you have new onset of diabetes. High blood pressure you've never had before.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Paralyzed half of your body or face is called Guillain Barré syndrome you never were aware of before. I actually answer every single one of these [00:07:00] and more in chapter 14 and 15 of this book. The rest of it is to outline what you need to know now. In relationships to venoms being used around the world as drugs, including these new What are called GLP 1 drugs that are so commonly talked about now.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: This is actually a venom laced drug. You don't even know it. But, uh, anyway, it's actually full of venom from a lizard in the deserts of the southwest of the United States of America called the Gila Monster. And there are a lot of horrific side effects to this, this drug being self administered. One week at a time and being prescribed as a lifetime prescription doc.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Can you believe it? It's a lifelong prescription. You have to take this for life to keep your weight off your heart disease reversed and you have to take this for diabetes for life. Really? Since when does anybody overweight and diabetic HeLa monster venom deficient?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, it's wild and I think it's, it's perfect.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So just before I ran home to get to this interview with you, my last patient of the morning said, Hey doc, can you get me [00:08:00] that fake diabetes so that I can get Ozempic covered by my insurance? I, my gosh, you're asking me to commit fraud to go to prison so that you can get a free medication that you probably shouldn't even be taking.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is important.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Your patient asked you to commit insurance fraud. And I'm going to tell you right now. I know doctors who have lied in their billing for insurance and have ended up in prison for five to seven years with multiple teenagers still at home because they committed fraud with insurance. Uh, please, please, anybody listening to this interview, please do what I hope doc here did.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: What did, what was your response?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: My response was you're asking me to commit fraud. I will not do that.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Thank you. Please have integrity and ethics to preserve your life. As you know it in your reputation, please don't
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: soul
Dr. Bryan Ardis: all for that. And your soul. Yeah, please, for the love of God, do no harm even to [00:09:00] yourself by committing insurance fraud.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Thank you. I'm proud of you. I honor you young man for taking a stand for ethics.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, it's just, it's just on the heel of what else has happened to me this week. I got an, uh, it's just. People, people can be difficult, but anyhow, let's get it.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Yes, that's very true. It's amazing to me how much human beings have to be spoon fed information or anything in order to get something done. I'm like, really, how much work do I have to do for all of you? Anyway, the goal is actually, you know, be self reliant a little bit. Don't rely on everybody else to do everything for you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Find health, and that's what, uh, you know, the goal is to find health, get people off their medications. But, but let's get into the Ozempic and, and Menjaro and, and all the GL1, GLP 1 inhibitors. Uh, because, you know, I keep getting emails from all these headhunters saying, Hey, Dr. Siglov, do you want to have so and so on?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: He's a GLP 1 specialist. It's like, how long have these meds been out? How can you be a specialist when, when, when We don't even have long term studies on them.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They've only been FDA approved [00:10:00] in America for five years. That's not even the seven year range. They say medical doctors usually hesitate before they start prescribing a drug.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: It has to be around for at least seven years. And, uh, this one hasn't even reached that point yet. And, uh, for your audiences and your patients, why would doc here prescribe it to you? Even if you were diabetic or overweight, when the countries in Europe, where it is made, still haven't approved that drug being made in Denmark to be given to its own citizens yet.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Why is America making up 95 plus percent of all Ozempic Wagovi purchases from a company out of Denmark, and Denmark hasn't even approved it for its own citizens yet? Why has it been here five years for sale and being prescribed and Doc, did you read and hear that Novo Nordisk, the maker of Gila Monster laced Wigovi and Ozempic?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Have you heard their revenue in the last five years alone [00:11:00] of Ozempic and Wigovi once it was FDA approved?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I remember it was astronomical.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: It's 2. 21 trillion dollars. Wow. In five years. In America is the one buying it. Isn't that crazy? All right. It's absolutely, it's all, it's all a setup. And you might want to ask yourself, Hey doc, if you're not going to prescribe it to me, how come Denmark's not prescribing it for their citizens?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: How come any country in Europe isn't prescribing Ozympic and we'll go V why are they demanding doctors in America? Give it to their patients. It's weird. Let it go. It's dangerous. It's toxic. Might as well tell the audiences when they're asking for insurance fraud to be committed just to get their hands on the incredible miraculous injections called Ozympic and we'll go V.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Have you told your audiences yet what are the published black box warning on
Dr. Bryan Ardis: those drugs, Ozempic and Wigovy?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is an interesting thing that I've noticed, is the weight loss one, So Wigovy, has a black box warning of suicidality. However, the same semaglutide for Ozempic does not have that warning. How can that [00:12:00] be?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How can you have one, the generic name, and the other one, the generic name, exactly the same medication, have a black box warning for suicidality and the other one not?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Yeah, what's the black box warning for the other one? For Ozempic, do you know?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Oh, I don't remember off the top of my head.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Yeah, there is a black box warning for the same drug.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: It's the same drug with two names, Wigovi and Ozempic. Okay, so it's called Sumaglutide, is the generic name, and Wigovi has this suicide risk black box warning. When you inject this thing inside you. And then Ozempic, the same drug, has a black box warning that within 12 to 36 months of starting that drug, anyone taking it can develop any form of medullary thyroid cancers.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Well, I want to tell the audience something. There are specifically medical doctors and professionals around the world treating patients solely for cancer. They only specialize in cancer diagnoses. The doctors that are going to be coming and presenting at my healing for [00:13:00] the ages conference in September, who are treating patients for cancer, new diagnosis of cancer while on Ozempic and Wegovy are not reporting.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Thyroid cancers in a single one of them, but they do have cancer all of them. They are actually seeing exponential explosions in metastatic breast cancer diagnoses After starting ozempic and wegovy and it's never mentioned in any of their scientific literature or any of the FDA documents Nothing, they do not mention this breast cancer warning.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They are seeing a hundred percent of the cancer Victims on Ozempic and Wigovy with these new cancer diagnoses. It's not thyroid cancer they're all coming up with. Male and female alike are coming in being diagnosed with breast cancer diagnoses. That are metastatic. So, you might want to lay off of Ozempic and Wigovy.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Unless You want to experience what Oprah Winfrey has experienced since her coming on debut [00:14:00] television about two months ago. She's been in and out of the hospital after promoting these GLP 1 drugs from Gila Monster Venom. She's been in and out of the hospitals with the exact same symptoms published about Ozempic and Wegovy that she did a whole two hour episode on, returning to daytime television, being paid by Big Pharma to give up her stocks and Weight Watchers and got some other big payment.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: To actually promote these GLP 1 drugs. And now she's in the hospital vomiting, dehydrated, constantly in and out. Uh, these are the published side effects of Ozempic. Just go read it. Look up CNN Health, man. They have tons of articles about the vomiting incessantly, the dehydration, the stomach paralyzation after starting these drugs that can last for years, doc.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Years of vomiting non stop that doesn't go away. Two years reported after stopping those drugs. That's how toxic it is.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So it's gone on for two years after stopping the medication.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: There's articles on CNN all about it right now. You can go back to June of 2023. There's [00:15:00] articles where they state, they even give four examples in June of 2023 of individuals whose lives have been destroyed by Ozempic.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And all of them say, I wish I never touched it. I haven't been able to go back to work. I can't leave my bed because I have nausea and vomiting cyclically that won't stop. And this is a published side effect of the paralyzation effect of the Gila monster venom. They call Wegovy endosympic. Oh, and how great that the FDA just two months ago decided to approve Wegovy, not just for weight loss, but to prevent heart disease.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Did you know Wegovy has a published side effect to cause tachycardia? That that's a serious side effect of Wegovy? Okay, you just approved this for senior citizens to have it covered by Medicare. I'm not joking. Medicare is now covering Wegovy. for overweight and heart disease diagnosed patients now per the FDA.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: It has a published side effect to cause [00:16:00] tachycardia. Now, Doc, explain to the audience what tachycardia is, and is that actually better heart function or worse?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, so as your heart beats faster, you actually pump less blood through it because you don't have time for the pump to fill. And then as your heart beats faster, as you can imagine, just if you walk versus run, you're going to use more oxygen in your heart muscles.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now, if you already have decreased blood supply to your heart muscles, what's going to happen? Well, you're going to have a myocardial infarction, or a heart attack, as we call it.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: That's the result. That's the benefit of Wigovi. So, as big of a problem as I had coming on your show originally, several years ago, I went to discuss Most likely remdesivir in the hospital protocols and the incentivizing by the Department of Health and Human Services and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They were giving bonuses to hospitals of 20 percent on their billing if they just gave 60 year old and older Americans remdesivir while in the hospital. They would get a 20 percent add on bonus for the whole bill per CMS dot gov. And I went around the [00:17:00] country exposing this to senators, legislators and every state capital building in America during the pandemic.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: This appears to me now, the FDA approving will go V just a couple of weeks ago for Medicare age senior citizens in America, knowing that it causes risk of suicide, as you just mentioned as a black box warning and causes tachycardia or worsening heart failure. Uh, I can only see this as another plot to create massive amounts of disease and harm and death in a lot of people.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And, uh, I just can't stand for that. Uh, I, I take that, took that oath very seriously that you took early on, to first do no harm. So, why don't the health agencies of this, of this world, who oversee the licensing of the medical professionals and health professionals, who are swearing oaths to do no harm first, why are they forcing such horrific approvals?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: and schedules for vaccines and drugs that are published to have black box warnings. of a lot of harm and death and [00:18:00] suicide. I don't understand it. It goes against everything that is principle for me personally, as a doctor or physician of any kind.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, it doesn't seem to have to do anything about the benefit of the patient.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: There's this short term gain, but there's this long term risk that, Oh, well, you know, maybe you won't be on it that long, but what, what's the plan to get people off these medications?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Yeah. Is there a plan? Have you seen the plan? I haven't seen the plan. All I've seen is that this is a prescription for life.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Once you start, you can't stop. And I'm like, This is insane insanity to me. Be careful, make sure you're studying it. And I just want to explain to the audiences what these drugs are because they talk about them so much. So they promote them as a market them as what are called GLP one drugs. These are not GLP one drugs.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: There is no GLP one, nothing inside the shots. So they're calling it a GLP one drug. Because when you inject this venom protein called Xendin 4, the venom protein in the Gila monster [00:19:00] lizard's venom in its mouth is called E X E N D I N 4. That is what they have synthetically replicated, and they call semaglutide, which is the generic brand drug name of Ozempic and Wegovy.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: But if you go back far enough, you're just going to realize they're isolated helamonster venom proteins that paralyze the intestines, paralyze the vagal nerve, and can cause cancer and tachycardia, as you're now learning. So, uh, this is what these drugs are. So when you inject Excendin 4, which is semaglutide, which is ozempic and wagovi inside your body, inside the cells of your blood vessels, and inside the cells that line your intestines are these cells that release a hormone called GLP 1.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And when this venom is injected inside the body of a patient, it signals anytime that venom protein goes by the cells in your arteries or in your intestines, it tells them to release GLP 1 hormone. Now GLP [00:20:00] 1 hormone is something every human being makes inside your arteries and inside your intestines as a reaction to specific fats you eat.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Every time you eat butter, saturated fats, avocado, your body releases GLP 1 hormone to start breaking down the fats and breaking down the blood sugar being made from the fats. But GLP 1 hormone, when you ingest fats, certain amino acids, fibers, you name it, releases GLP 1 hormone. The GLP 1 hormone shuts and breaks down the blood sugar.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: to help improve metabolism and your blood sugar levels. But you and your body have something God put inside of it when he designed it. I believe God designed this human body or evolutionists, you believe it evolved. It evolved to include developing an enzyme called DPP for short, dipeptidylpeptase. This enzyme, as soon as GLP 1 hormone is released from fats you eat or injecting yourself with Gila monster venom, Your body releases a hormone, sorry, an enzyme called DPP.[00:21:00]
Dr. Bryan Ardis: DPP breaks down GLP 1 hormone within one to two minutes. So GLP 1 hormone has a very short lifespan. And if you would like to know why, Doc here can explain it to the audiences. But when, if GLP 1 hormone was just allowed to run wild and just keep kicking it out, eventually you would break down all the blood sugar in your body.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: What happens when your blood sugar gets too high? Too low, Doc. You will have seizures, you can go to a diabetic coma, you can do all kinds of stuff. Too much insulin will do the same thing. Too much GLP 1 will do the same thing. So your body has this governor, this regulator, to make sure GLP 1 is broken down quickly, so it doesn't dilute all of your blood sugar.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Or you're going to have seizures. You're going to have problems, big time obviously, with too low blood sugar. So, this is why DPP is essential in the human body. The reason why the venom protein, called Xcendin 4, turned into somagglutide, a drug, which is now a govinozempic. [00:22:00] The reason why it works for a week long period is because DPP, what your body makes to break down GLP hormone, cannot destroy venom.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: So as venom just circulates throughout your body for a whole week before your body metabolizes it out through your urine or pooping it out, for that whole week, your body is releasing GLP 1 hormone everywhere that venom hits in your body, in your arteries and in your intestines. DPP can't break down the venom, so your body is just releasing GLP wherever that thing is circulating.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: The problem is, they don't control where that venom protein goes, and if it ends up in your thyroid, guess what happens? You develop thyroid cancer. Guess what happens when it ends up in your pancreas? They already published, this is a published serious side effect of Ozempic hemoglobin. That venom gets inside your pancreas, you'll develop type 1 diabetes, type 2 diabetes, or pancreatitis.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: How painful is pancreatitis, Doc?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Oh, it's, it's terrible. [00:23:00] And, and the worst part of it is a 20 percent risk of death on a hospital admission. In every organ system that fails, your increase of death, risk of death goes up 20%. So you can get way over 100 percent very quickly with pancreatitis.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I have had my own grandparents got flu shots when they were in their 80s.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Ended up in the hospital with pancreatitis every year for 5 years after getting the flu shot. And I had to fly to New Orleans, put them on mercury and aluminum detoxing agents. to get him out of a hospital. Three weeks later, he had to have a morphine drip and Zofran drip to keep his pain down. That's how intense it was.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: So pancreatitis can be depilitating. He couldn't go to work. He couldn't be with his wife, with his family. Had to be in a hospital for three weeks until I showed up. Nothing was breaking the pain. That is an example of pancreatitis, a published side effect of this HeLa monster venom. It's awful. So if this ends up in your brain, The published side effect is a black box warning.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: You might be psychotic and decide to start having suicidal ideations you [00:24:00] never had before. You might even start taking suicidal actions. which would seem psychotic. This is the side effects of venoms, and I write all about it in my new book. I even get into the Gila monster venom and these ozempic drugs.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I discuss the psychotic breaks that people are having from COVID after the COVID 19 vaccines, and with these semaglutide injections, because they're all venom based. Once you understand what venom does in the human body, chapter 14 in my book outlines it all, you then now start to grasp the hundred percent of issues people are struggling with right now.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: can be directly, directly correlated to venoms being introduced into their body, being replicated in their body and bacteria and yeast that's found in our bowels. They have learned to weaponize our own bodies against us. And you don't even see it. And your medical doctors aren't trained to look for it.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: So I've outlined all the tests and the why in that book to try to help as many people help as many patients as possible around the world. And the only way to get that information to them is to physically hand it to them most likely. So [00:25:00] if they're not watching this show, Make sure they're following this show and get a copy of my book, all of your health care providers all around the world.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They need Dr. Sigaloff's podcast. They need this platform. They need truth and they need, uh, to be needed to be uncensored in a way in which they can grasp it and then articulate it back to their audiences and their followers and patients.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I don't know if you're making your, your book digitally available, but I encourage you, even if it is.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Everyone should have a hard copy in your house because it can never be taken off of, out of your house unless someone comes in and takes it. But if it's on your phone, it's on your computer, you could wake up one day and it'd be disappeared or it could be, um, pages missing or information gone.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: You know, as we convert everything digitally and put it on a cloud, imagine one EMP.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Taken down a grid and now you don't have access to your electronics unless you all have a generator to turn it on. And now all your documents have to be saved on a file on your computer because you don't have internet access or cloud access. So to make sure everything is saved, downloaded onto a hard drive or [00:26:00] having it physically in paper by far is going to be your best bet.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: So for me, it is make sure you have a paper copy of the things that are solutions and antidotes. And I actually outlined for you dosages, how often research back to all of it. It's very, very exciting. And I hope it actually helps millions around the world. Understand COVID and what maybe has come up in their world or in their home or in their relationship since then because what you're going to learn in this book is what they have experimented with for three and a half years called COVID in preparation for their next pandemic.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They're not going to let this go, so you better learn how it is. They created a pandemic and got so many people to volunteer themselves for an experimental injection called the COVID 19 vaccines all over the world. They are now. learning from their data collection and review what aspects of the fear mongering, the propaganda, their experimental injections and drugs and vaccines and hospital protocols, what worked, what didn't work, they will regroup, they will create another pandemic.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And you might as well know the lessons we learned from this one because they were monumental and very new [00:27:00] to me.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I think it's really interesting. You're looking back on when you were on my show the first time, back when it was still just audio only. Um, you talked about the, the cobra venom and how in my clinical practice so far, it seems like when I treat people with specific medications, it almost like it instantly reverses the virus, if you will, because it may not actually be a virus.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It may be a poison and a toxin, and it seems like that fits most accurately. Yeah.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Yeah, the solutions I'm going to outline in the book, for example, inside the COVID 19 vaccines is published in every research document in the creation of the mRNA COVID 19 shots, the Pfizer and Moderna ones particularly.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They name a specific venom protein from a snake, it's called snake venom phosphodiesterase, that this venom they use to cleave your RNA or DNA to do their gene editing therapy with these shots, and they [00:28:00] call these gene therapy shots for a reason. This snake venom component, if you go to look and see where researchers in designing these shots would have gotten their hands on snake venom phosphodesterase, which is just one blood clotting venom protein found in a collection of a snake's venom, if a venom causes blood clotting, It is called snake venom phosphodiesterase.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: That actual substance is sold by companies like Innovative Research, Thermo Fisher Scientific. They sell it in little bottles and they tell you the sources rattle snake venom. And they sell this to geneticists who are making gene therapy vaccines and shots. to do gene editing, damage your DNA. So that's what they proposed in these shots with snake venom phosphodesterase.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: One example I want to give you, when innovative research and Thermo Fisher Scientific sell snake venom phosphodesterase in a bottle for 160 bucks on their websites, which is true. Little bitty bottle of snake venom phosphodesterase. It says [00:29:00] on the product page, researchers, you cannot mix this snake venom protein with vitamin C, glutathione, N acetyl cysteine.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And it is completely. destroyed by EDTA. They tell you what are the natural solutions to their venom proteins to protect the life of people who get this injected inside of them. So for an example, as you're speaking here, there are antidotes to venoms and they publish them all over the world. And I've made sure sure every venom protein found in COVID 19 patients, which is confirmed by science multiple times to be 36 different animal venoms, making up the symptoms caused by COVID.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Carlo Brogman, his team in Italy confirmed this multiple times already starting in 2021. They've already been able to confirm every symptom of COVID was created by venom proteins from snakes, starfish in the ocean, and cone snails in the ocean. Well, once you go research all those proteins they determined through DNA analysis, [00:30:00] once you look at those venom proteins, go into those venom proteins research studies, scientists around the world for decades have published the antidotes to those venoms.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They include things like nicotine, nicotine patches, nicotine gum. They include things like EDTA, like I just talked about. They talk about vitamin C. They talk about zinc. They talk about a lot of things. Licorice root dissolves blood clots caused by snake venom. Well, the moment we introduce these antidotes into people hurt by COVID, by the vaccines, or anything, a snake bite.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: All of them start to improve, and all of these are based on research papers proving their benefits to neutralize and detoxify proteins of venoms that are very hard on the human body to remove on its own. Doc, I don't know if you know this, but did you know if a snake, if one of your patients got bit by a rattlesnake, came in and saw you, you gave them antibodies, which are monoclonal [00:31:00] antibodies, if you gave it to them, and they reversed their symptoms from the snake bite and saved their life.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Do you know that same person they have followed for decades after the snake bite to see what other complications from the venom in their body are persisting for months and years after Dr. Sigalov gave the antivenom? They want to know what are the long term side effects of snake venom bites? Doc, audience, patients.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They publish, and you're going to read about it in my book, I show you all the references, the average snake venom victim, regardless if you injected it from a syringe or from a fang of a snake. They publish. The average symptoms caused by the venom will persist in the human body for 14 years. [00:32:00] These long COVID symptoms lasting for months now and years now, they're all answered in the book.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: The only thing they know that does this in human bodies is venom from snakes. It's the most studied thing on earth that correlates to your symptoms you're struggling with now. And I teach everybody in the book how it is they're making your body, engineer and manufacture the venom proteins that are keeping you sick one day after another, and making your symptoms worse, and your diabetes appear worse one week after another, one day after another.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And uh, the solutions I've outlined in your interview with you early on, and then we have added so many more things. They have published, for example, Dr. Sigaloff, did you know that they actually have published in 2017, they know there's a snake venom protein called L Amino Acid Oxidase that is now isolated, being synthetically manufactured in laboratories around the world, and is already patented as an antiviral vaccine for all viruses?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And did you know that this snake [00:33:00] venom protein called L Amino Acid Oxidase they publish when injected in a human? Whether for a virus or not, they published that it destroys something called syncytium cells in the human body that gets it injected. And do you know that syncytium are the cells required to maintain pregnancies to a full term?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: So when we heard 90 percent of all failed pregnancies in Canada after receiving an mRNA COVID 19 shot, And two thirds of all those in America can, or one third of all American couples can no longer get pregnant. And they already have these vaccines patented to include snake venom proteins that cause death of the cells that maintain pregnancies to full term.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: You can finally understand how it is plausible that the vaccine agenda for Gardasil HPV vaccines for middle aged kids, middle school kids and high school age kids, how it is they are creating infertility worldwide. [00:34:00] with antiviral vaccines that can easily hold the L Amino Acid Oxidase protein from snake venom.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They know they can create miscarriages and infertility with snake venom, and they've published it. And I found the document since 2017. You know what's really cool about that? I outline in the book the test every medical doctor can order to confirm if L Amino Acid Oxidase is actually causing your miscarriages in your loved one or patient of yours over and over and over, or if you can't get pregnant at all.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Why are so many people infertile all of a sudden? Well, the vaccine schedule hasn't changed. It's only amplified and exponentially grown for the last 40 years. How do you know they're not putting that inside of there to control fertility rates around the world? Well, if they find positive, the L amino acid oxidase, you can do it with a urine sample and a blood sample.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And no medical doctor I've ever talked to even knows that this test exists. You can order the test. I give you the references. I show you how to use it and where to send it to get it approved or determined the results. And then I've show you. Dr. Sigaloff, I show what the antidotes are [00:35:00] if this venom protein is in a human.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They've already done the studies. They know how to destroy the venom to restore fertility back in the mammal. And there's a certain temperature of a sauna that will actually destroy it all. 130 degrees Fahrenheit will destroy that venom protein. Zinc and vitamin D will destroy that protein. Did you know that?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And then they also published that a pH level of the individual at 7. 5 or higher destroys that venom protein and it has to be eliminated from the body and it would then restore fertility and mis full term pregnancies that these individuals are struggling with. So these, this is an example of Just one example, tons of venom proteins that are now patented as drugs, vaccines and bioweapons and the solutions and antidotes and research studies that I could find.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Oh, it's so exciting. I cannot wait to see how this benefits the world. I actually absolutely believe it's one of the most valuable tools people [00:36:00] should have in their home or in their clinics to help many people find answers to their suffering.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow, that sounds amazing. So. You're saying is we can reverse this.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It isn't a death sentence, so to speak, or a lifetime sentence.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: A hundred percent. Now, the truth is, and you know this, Doc, if somebody with has been diagnosed this last year, after having COVID a couple of years ago, now being diagnosed with a new onset of diabetes, which is one of the long COVID symptoms.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Doc, if anybody was told now, in the last year or two, that they now have a new diagnosis of any type 1 diabetes or type 2 diabetes, does the medical profession tell patients with diabetes that they can reverse their type 1 or type 2 diabetes?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I mean, I've seen type 2 reverse, um, just with some dietary counseling that, that I give, but, On, on a whole?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: No. On, yeah.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: On a whole, they'll tell you diabetes is not reversible or curable. So, [00:37:00] anybody that now has a new diagnosis of diabetes and are now seeing an endocrinologist or a general practitioner, you're gonna be told. You have this now for life. It's not true. I can show you how to detox these venom proteins out of your body to restore normal function of your pancreas.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Did Sigaloff, they've already proven that snake venom binds to beta cells? In the pancreas and shuts off the beta cells production of insulin, and they can reverse it in every mammal after injecting snake venom into them. They can reverse it in 3 days with various doses of nicotine to restore a type 1 diabetic mammal back to non diabetic.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Can you believe that? I show them in the book. I go through one study after another how they're reversing type 2 and type 1 diabetes. Just using nicotine alone. Nicotine gum, nicotine agents, and I explain all of that. In fact, there's an entire chapter titled, Just in the Nicotine of Time. And it's all about the published known [00:38:00] benefits of nicotine.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Nicotine actually, this will be shocking to probably say on your platform, do you know that nicotine was the perfect vaccine for COVID? We didn't need a vaccine. Nicotine patches, nicotine gum was the perfect vaccine and exactly why it is they had to propagandize and make nicotine and tobacco look horrible to all people around the world and have very little faith and told everybody around the world, there's no better time than now to quit smoking world.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Smokers are ending up with COVID and dying from COVID more than anybody else and the truth is they lied to you 100%. Smokers were the least likely affected with COVID, and the least likely to die from COVID, and represented the lowest, smallest percentage of any demographic on Earth at 1. 7 percent of all current smokers got COVID, were hospitalized for COVID, and ever died from COVID.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: It's the smallest demographic. Smokers were the most protected, and nicotine was that agent that protected them. I dive into that in the book. And just for shock [00:39:00] value, Dr. Sigalov, I want you to tell your audiences, can you tell me, Maybe you've already watched my stuff. Maybe we've already talked about it.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Can you tell the audiences what vegetables they eat every day that has nicotine in it?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That I can't tell you.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Really? Alright, here we go. Something new and exciting. Alright, so everybody knows that nicotine is addictive, right? Cancer causing agent. FDA's made sure everybody's believed that since 1994.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Actually, August 4th, 1994.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Can I pause you for a second? Because nicotine is different than smoking or using tobacco. And, and I'm not saying that you should go smoke. I'm not saying you should go start dipping or chewing. But there's other things in the plant. There's probably thousands of chemicals. And I would imagine it may not be the nicotine that's causing the cancer.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's just, it's a, it's a theory. It's a thought. Exactly right.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: That's a great theory, actually. Anybody can go to thedoctorartistshow. com under patient resources or on the homepage is a entire podcast [00:40:00] show I did called The Other N Word. The other n word is nicotine. I did see that. Because it makes so many people uncomfortable.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: When you bring it up, medical doctors are like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up on the nicotine thing. Hold up. Late people are like, I don't want to be addicted to that. Okay. I need to explain something to you. Nicotine is not addictive. I know it's shocking to hear. Could you imagine the FDA lying to you for the last 40 years?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Yeah, I can. Because they have been. Alright, so, They've been lying to you since 1994. Harvard figured out in 2016 that nicotine was not addictive and then went through 7 million pages of tobacco giant R& D papers they got from the FDA and found that in the 70s tobacco giants knew that nicotine was not addictive and they hired chemists to come in and make their products more addictive for consumers so they buy it more and the chemist told them to just add pyrazine, a man made chemical A whole bunch of them.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Just add those to your tobacco products. [00:41:00] Every product you make will be addictive. And Harvard learned through this research study that there are right now 15 different manmade pyrazines that are approved by the FDA to be added to every tobacco product sold commercially in America. And Harvard said in 2016 in their paper, it's pyrazines that need to be regulated by the FDA, not nicotine.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Pyrazines are what contribute to the learned behavior and the addiction qualities of tobacco products. Not nicotine. Alright. And they also published that nicotine is an aversive substance that animals don't like it and human beings push it away. They don't like it. So, it is not an addictive substance by itself.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And also in that Harvard study, Dr. Sigaloff, I think you'll enjoy this. You just said, you don't know if nicotine is the substance responsible for cancer. If I asked you for a number, Dr. Sigaloff, I would love it if you knew this. Do you know how many chemicals Harvard learned in these documents that the FDA has approved for [00:42:00] Marlboro, Camel, and other manufacturers to add to tobacco leaf in their cigarette products?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Do you know how many manmade chemicals the FDA has in a list? That they allow cigarette manufacturers and tobacco manufacturers to add to tobacco.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm gonna say, is it over 50?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: It is over 50. You want to keep going? Is it over a hundred? It is. Do you want to keep going? It's 599 man made chemicals.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Is the list the FDA has on their website right now.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Are the man made chemicals allowed to be added to tobacco products? And then I'd like to ask you, Doc, without even knowing the list now, you don't even know the number. If there's 599 man made chemicals allowed inside of tobacco products since 1970, can you name which ones you believe are responsible for cancer?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Probably all of them. Yeah, none of us know. You don't know, I don't, none of us know. But I can absolutely speculate that it's not just the [00:43:00] nicotine responsible for cancer diagnosis, lung cancer diagnosis, gum cancer diagnosis, oral cavity cancer diagnosis, uh, using snuff and stuff. Um, you don't know it.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: There's a reason, though, why Native Americans have been smoking tobacco into their hundreds. It's a very good point. They're not developing cancers. It's because it's organic and doesn't have that crap added to it. So. 599 chemicals? You and I and no medical doctor on earth has ever reviewed that entire list.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: There's no way you can tell me what's safe and not safe inside of tobacco products that are made commercially. So go with organic brands that don't add chemicals to their products. American Spirits and others. There's other brands that are more cleaner than others. I don't recommend smoking. I don't like smoke in the lungs of people.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I don't think it's beneficial. You can use nicotine agents, nicotine patches. Okay. Now, I need to get back to this. This is very important. I don't want people getting lost on this conversation. Dr. Sigaloff, I asked you what vegetables everybody eats every day. Which ones of them contain [00:44:00] nicotine in a lot of it?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I don't know, but I don't eat vegetables, so.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Very good. Alright, so he doesn't eat veggies, so he doesn't know. Alright, so here we go. This is great. Because a lot of your audiences may either know what these vegetables are or don't eat vegetables just like you. Alright, so here we go. So, did you know that every potato chip you've ever eaten has nicotine in it?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Is that why they're, no, they're not addictive, so no. They're addictive because of the carbohydrates.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Do you know that every white potato, that means every french fry you've ever ordered, has nicotine in it?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Did you know that the second highest containing plant that has to nicotine in it, the first is the tobacco plant?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Do you know number two most nicotine saturated vegetable on earth is eggplant?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I was gonna say, if a potato has it, I would imagine the nightshades all have it.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: All nightshades is the largest group of plants that all [00:45:00] have high amounts of nicotine. So, eggplants are number one. Number two is red tomatoes.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Isn't that crazy? Interesting. Think about how much ketchup are you eating? How many tomatoes are you eating on your BLT? I mean, how many of you can say you're addicted to tomatoes and have ever asked your manager or your boss for a tomato break or an eggplant break because you were so addicted at the high amount of nicotine inside those plants?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: There's a reason you've never been addicted to eggplants or tomatoes. There's a reason you've never been addicted to squash or zucchini. Zucchini also has high amounts of nicotine. Nobody's addicted to zucchini. The only time you're addicted to zucchini is if it's put in zucchini bread and they've added tons of sugar to make it taste good because it's amazing and that would be the carbohydrates again.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: All right. Did you know that cauliflower, celery, bell peppers all have high amounts of nicotine in them? Hmm. Now, if the FDA has been adamant to make sure you believe tobacco products have a dangerous amount of nicotine in them. Why don't [00:46:00] every drive thru fast food chain, how come when you get your Chick fil A waffle fries, and your french fries from McDonald's, and your potato chips from Frito Lay, and your Heinz ketchup, Hunt's ketchup, or your tomatoes, why don't they come with an FDA warning that that vegetable, or the french fry, or the potato chip contains high amounts of nicotine, an addictive substance?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They don't check your ID. And why don't they ask for your ID? There's a reason. The FDA knows nicotine is not bad for you. They know it's in vegetables and plants and everybody, everybody consumes them all day long. They just needed you not to trust tobacco products because they can be manufactured to include more nicotine than the plants.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They can be engineered to do that. So they know nicotine was a problem for the pandemic, but it also serves, nicotine does, as a nutrient found in many plants as I just told you. If nicotine is found in all these plants, and I believe God created all these plants, [00:47:00] my question for you would be is why would God put nicotine in all these plants that he thinks and knows we're going to consume?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And then why did he put nicotine receptors on every muscle cell in your body and nerve cell in your body? And every white blood cell and every red blood cell? Why do they all have nicotine receptors on them? If you weren't designed to benefit from nicotine
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: so we can use it as a medicine
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Yep, I actually wear a three milligram nicotine patch and I have for the last two and a half years I will wear one every day the rest of my life and doc I know you haven't done this research yet.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I've had to do it for the last two years I was just curious if they knew nicotine was this big of a deal in preventing covid which was supposedly a common cold virus Called a coronavirus. I had to look up in the last five years or last two years. Sorry Every single known virus, including influenza, rabies, HIV, measles, mumps, rubella, polio, I had to look at all of them.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I wanted to know, how many of those viruses also do they know target alpha 7 nicotine receptors? [00:48:00] Dr. Sigaloff, it's 100 percent of all of them. Wow. So, last week alone, did you hear that Australia has now made nicotine agents requiring a prescription?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Interesting.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: From your medical doctor. Did you hear the VP selected by Kamala Harris has now announced last week that one of his primary agendas is to make sure all nicotine products in America carry a 98 percent tax, do you, you are now going to start understanding why nicotine is a problem for the drug industry, which lobbies for most of our political players.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: So, FDA, the HHS, your NIH, your CDC, they're all funded by Big Pharma. They are going to do everything in their power to make sure you only trust patented drugs and vaccines. Stay away from nicotine. In fact, don't eat any [00:49:00] vegetables either, because they contain nicotine too. Anyway, there you go. In fact, I find it ironic.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Did you know that nicotine has been published over and over and over to have more anti inflammatory benefits to the human? than inflammatory benefits. And this is key. I have to have this discussion here with a doc because I get excited about this. When patients are diagnosed with a chronic inflammatory conditions, Dr.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Sigaloff, have you ever heard it recommended to the patient that when they start steroid treatment for life, prednisone or others, hydrocortisone, whatever, when they prescribe those drugs, have you ever heard it said To the patient, ma'am, sir, now that you've been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease or an inflammatory condition like arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, fibro, you name it, it's now recommended that you avoid nightshade vegetables also.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I have not heard that.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I've heard that so many times and I'm like, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. Nightshade vegetables have nicotine. [00:50:00] Nicotine is anti inflammatory. Nightshade vegetables have the second highest amount of this anti inflammatory nutrient. Why are you telling people to avoid that when they live in an inflammatory state?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: They actually do tell many people that suffer with migraines and arthritis is of all kinds that nightshade vegetables should be avoided because they add. Inflammation to the body. Well, I just want to let you know here, I have people all around the world doc who are experimenting with nicotine patches all over the place and everywhere I go, they walk up to me and go, I've had arthritis in my shoulder for years.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: After watching your other inward presentation and all the research studies about curing arthritis, I put a three milligram nicotine patch on my shoulder. I've had arthritis in for years. Within three days, it all disappeared. I have no pain. Now I'm putting it on my knee and all my knee pain's gone away.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I've had for decades. And I'm like. This is awesome, man. Incredible. I have had people reverse their blindness with nicotine patches, and this is not a joke. Permanent, supposed lifelong blindness reversed. [00:51:00] Wow. With three days of nicotine patches, I've seen diabetes, insulin production, insulin requirements go down.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I've seen insulin resistance reverse within three months of just using a small amount of nicotine every day in type one diabetics. It's remarkable. I've seen people reverse deafness Since COVID being diagnosed with permanent hearing loss, having that restored in 45 minutes to three days of using a nicotine gum or nicotine patch.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: So it's been miraculous to watch this. And just so you know, audiences, I know I'm talking about something that seems odd and controversial and conspiratorial. It doesn't get bigger than this. From the time I dropped the watch the water documentary that listed nicotine as the antidote to COVID number one, at the end of that documentary, within one month doc, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, U.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: S. And the U. K. England all announced new health agendas that by the year 2030 there would be no access to nicotine agents of any kind over the counter. Wow. They are taking [00:52:00] it away now. Why in the middle of the pandemic would they be so worried about making sure people don't get access to nicotine?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Because then you start realizing that the smokers don't get sick as, as much as everyone else. And if this is a respiratory illness, which is mind boggling, they should be more sick, but they're less sick.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Exactly. Right. And one of the other things that I'm going to, that I actually outlined in the book, and I'm not sure you're aware of this and it might be very helpful for you.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I would hope as a doctor seeing patients, did you know that asthma sufferers have never been included as a risk factor for COVID? Never has it been published ever. Do you know what's odd about that? Why would people with a lung problem like asthma who struggle to breathe, why would they never be listed as a risk factor for COVID?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Do you know that scientists asked this question in 2020 and by October of 2020 had published why asthma [00:53:00] sufferers weren't getting COVID and were seemingly immune?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Is it budesonide?
Dr. Bryan Ardis: It is because of their inhalers. You were right about the inhalers. Budesonide is one of those. So corticosteroids, when you inhale them, what they found was it wasn't the corticosteroid that's in the inhaler that was the cure for COVID.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Do you know what they published in October of 2020 was in the inhalers and was found to be the cure for COVID?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Im bracing myself.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: There's an additive inside those drugs, the inhalers for asthmatics. Not the pills, but the inhalers. The inhalers.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: That is called EDTA. Oh my goodness. And they published in October 2020, the EDTA in the inhalers is curing people of COVID and preventing asthmatics from ever getting it.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: I just talked about how snake venom proteins inside the COVID 19 vaccines called snake venom phosphodiesterase was also found in COVID [00:54:00] patients is cured by EDTA. Wow. So, There's a reason that it was working. So nicotine was protected for the smokers. EDTA in the inhalers was preventing asthmatics who used an inhaler regularly.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: The, they said they found EDTA was the cure. Imagine that EDTA is a cure for snake venom proteins. Oh my God. Incredible. So anyway, I find that remarkable. Uh, we actually created an oral version of EDTA. You don't have to do an intravenous EDTA. And we're going to be presenting at our conference here in September.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: 30 different, uh, research study applicants have been doing an EDTA study for months for us. And we're about to show you why it is so effective at reversing diseases, EDTA, and preventing your symptoms you're getting as related to venom. And, uh, they pull out metals that venom require. It's also helping us to prevent the nanotechnology that's being inserted into people and helping us remove graphene oxide and other metals like cadmium, which is the primary metal [00:55:00] used in creating nanotech called quantum dots and smart dust technology.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: We're proving that we can detox cadmium out of the body without, with EDTA alone, orally. And we're going to show the audiences everything that we've discovered over the last year. It's very exciting.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and just for the, the listeners, some of this stuff may seem like wild, but I want to encourage you to go back and listen to the episode I did with Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna Mihayka, and she talks a lot about the same stuff with EDTA. So when you have the same ideas coming from multiple directions, there's some truth right there.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: In fact, Dr. Anna was producing early on, like last year, like hit pieces on EDTA and why it shouldn't be trusted. Dr. Ed Group, who's one of my Healing for the Ages docs, called her immediately to share all the research we've done.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And she has absolutely changed her tune and knows that the EDTA is absolutely very effective. And I have to say, uh, I had a medical doctor actually call me last Saturday to tell me a story, doc. [00:56:00] A pediatrician of 40 years called me to tell me that they were at an event with me two years ago. discussing a prostate problem and asked me what I would do about it and said it would only come up in the last two years, this issue.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: And I said, okay, great. This doctor calls me over the weekend to tell me a story because what he told me two years ago at this event is he did not want to tell me everything about his problems, right? He was embarrassed about some stuff. I'm never going to say his name and tell you who this is. Everybody would know who this is.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: However, this person told me, Now, when they told me about their prostate problem two years ago, they did not tell me about their erectile dysfunction issues, their low testosterone levels, and that their testicles had shrunk to the size of raisins. Oh my goodness. On top of his prostate problems. My recommendation's Dr.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: Sigaloff was this. You should start my liquid version EDTA orally. You should wear nicotine patches of 3 to 7 milligrams every day. [00:57:00] And you should take my Prostate Pro supplement. This guy called me on Saturday to tell me that without even me knowing anything about the other scenarios, he was embarrassed to tell me.
Dr. Bryan Ardis: He called to tell me his testosterone is as high as it was when he was a young adult. For the first time ever, his testicles are bigger than they were before COVID. And he is super thrilled about his sex drive. Now is no longer an erectile dysfunction i
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134. Chlorine Dioxide and how it can work for you
Today I talk with Michelle Herman with Snoot! and I talk with Valerie Alliger-Bogard with Frontier Pharmaceutical. The topic is Chlorine Dioxide. Please look up theuniversalantidote.com to learn more about Chlorine Dioxide to see if it might be right for you. Please also check out Frontier Pharmaceutical website listed below.
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134. Chlorine Dioxide
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Michelle Herman: [00:00:00] Just in the last two years, I think really because of covid what's happened with covid. Um, the, the conversations about chlorine dioxide have just, just exploded. And, and I think it's kind of because of the ivermectin situation, the hydroxy chloroquine is now people are realizing that, oh, just because the FDA says, You know, don't use it.
Michelle Herman: It's not approved. XYZ. You know, it doesn't mean that there's not value in these.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given anything. MRNA vaccines.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow that gives birth to the calf. It's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare what we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major [00:01:00] state companies that sell Bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It can be as much as a hundred and eighty four dollars to fifty nine dollars less expensive It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out mycleanbeef.com/afterhours, that's mycleanbeef.com/afterhours mycleanbeef.com/afterhours.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed I've been wearing this t shirt for a few episodes now, I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything[00:02:00]
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now, to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: All right, well, thank you for joining me again. I want to give a quick shout out to all my Patreon subscribers. We've got Too Tough giving 30 a month. We have an anonymous family donor giving 20 and 20 cents. We have the Plandemic Reprimando tier at 17 and 76 cents on Patreon.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So next, this episode is a very interesting episode. We I I Kind of said this before we started recording that we are the rebels of the rebels, and that'll be more elucidated as we go on. But we're going to be talking about chlorine dioxide. Uh, we have, uh, Michelle Herman from Snoot talking about chlorine dioxide, and we have Valerie Alger Borgrad.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, uh, Alger, you may be familiar with that name if you know much about chlorine dioxide, but we'll get into that a bit more. First, before we start anything on this subject, I want to make it clear that as a physician, I am not recommending treatment for any condition other than this is for your educational purposes only, to see if If this is something that you want to learn more about, chlorine dioxide is a very controversial subject.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: [00:04:00] I, I love having my medical license. I love treating patients and seeing them every day. And the FDA, uh, might do something about my medical license if I were to recommend any patient take this for any medical treatment. So again, this is not for medical treatment. This is purely for educational purposes only.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much for coming on.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: Thanks for having us. Happy to be here. Great.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay. So the way we met is we were at the, uh, if you want to say like the rebel conference at FLCCC and, and you just told me just now that there was some, y'all tried to be more involved in the conference and it was prevented.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And you know, we don't have to get a names if you don't want to, or we can if you want. Um, but to give people an idea that this is the most rebellious of the rebellious people ideas.
Michelle Herman: Well, actually, we, we really didn't really ask to be a part of it. We actually just signed up as attendees to go and I had actually, um, I had gone to the event last summer [00:05:00] in Dallas and, um, I actually went there specifically to meet Steve Kirsch.
Michelle Herman: Um, I had been following him and everything that he was talking about with, you know, COVID and the vaccines and alternative treatments. And I just, I was like, how does he not know about chlorine dioxide? Why is he not talking about that? So I literally went to, to Dallas and I had dinner with him and his nurse Angela and Texas Lindsey, uh, was there.
Michelle Herman: And like the five of us, four or five of us had dinner. And he knew nothing about chlorine dioxide, so it was a whole educational process. And um, So I only really kind of met a handful of the main players at FLCC. So when this came around in February in Phoenix, I told Val that we have to totally go to this.
Michelle Herman: These are our people. They're open minded. They are, um, they're, they're really looking at, you know, their eyes have been opened. And what really struck me from the event last summer was, you know, they were all getting up there talking about, you know, here's our protocol for vaccine injured for this, for that and for COVID.
Michelle Herman: And I'm like, they were even talking about stuff like methylene [00:06:00] blue. And, you know, it was like, I'm like, okay, you guys are talking about, even I think they were talking about yoga and meditation. I'm like, the things you're missing are chlorine dioxide. Like, how do you not have this? And, you know, I'm sure we know why, but I thought, wow, um, this is a group we need to connect to.
Michelle Herman: So, so we went and we just, you know, attended and there was, I don't know, probably 500 doctors there, I think. Um, it was a really good crowd in Phoenix. And, um, we just started talking to people, you know, on the break and in the morning and, and at lunch and, and it really, frankly, blew our mind, um, you know, we're, we're so, we're so used to people not having any clue about what chlorine dioxide is.
Michelle Herman: So when somebody responds, Positively, it's it's kind of mind blowing for us. And I would say 99 out of 100 people. They knew about chlorine dioxide. They actually knew about snoot spray and frontier pharmaceutical. They knew about us. And we were like, What? How? How is this even possible? And so the reception we got was frankly incredible.
Michelle Herman: And we had kind of the main people who were kind of organizing it. [00:07:00] They're like, you know, because I was like, Yeah, kind of our goal here is, you know, if we get the you know, the confusion, the, um, the controversy, but you know, we essentially make products and the products are really great. So we don't even, we do nothing with oral ingestion or anything like that.
Michelle Herman: But you know, these products are great for, for everything under the sun. Right. And they're easy to incorporate in your daily life. So we had, I forget the gal's name that, um, that we talked to like at the cocktail party. She's like, Oh my God, you have to talk to Paul Merrick. Like I'm going to get you in front of him.
Michelle Herman: And, um, and it was kind of, I don't know, value. You want to tell what happened when we talked to. Dr. Merrick?
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: Well, hi everyone. Um, his, his apparent involvement or understanding of chlorine dioxide seemed to only, uh, um, focus on, uh, Andreas Kalker's work. He didn't really know about us. He didn't know about the general field of chlorine [00:08:00] dioxide and, and he, well, I'm not sure. I don't want to say he didn't seem to be a fan, um, and he just sort of left, um, I forget.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: What did he say? And he's almost
Michelle Herman: like, Oh, we need more studies, which I thought was incredibly ironic. Oh, right.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: Right. After
Michelle Herman: he's like, vitamin C, like we don't need more stinking studies. Like this stuff works. Why are we complicating this? So it was just kind of, it was, I thought it was pretty ironic, um, that that's, that's how he responded, but he'll, he'll come around and do time.
Michelle Herman: We're confident.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: Well, and, and what I did was send him, I mean, that's what we have, is studies. Uh, we have hundreds and hundreds of studies, so I went ahead and sent him lots of them, and, uh, looking forward to speaking with him more.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And Michelle and Valerie, the way I met y'all was, I, I sat at a table, and this was a total God thing, and I, I started talking with one of the doctors there, it was Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Mitch Leister, [00:09:00] and Some of the people in this audience may be familiar with him on my Ketamine Part 1 series and Part 2 series. And that's what came out of that. And then now it blossomed also into him introducing me into y'all.
Michelle Herman: Yeah, it was just really like kismet. Um, it was, it was great. We met Mitch, uh, I guess about two years ago, three years ago. Um, just a super guy and, you know, again, he's someone who, you know, is kind of a mainstream medical, right? He works at a university, but, but he's just so intrigued and interested by all of this.
Michelle Herman: Um, so he's just, he's been a great, uh, advocate for us and, and, um, and, and he's, you know, just a wealth of, of information too.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Valerie, what got you into chlorine dioxide? What's your history and the Alger name and the history behind that? Because then people may have heard that name and they may be wondering, I've heard that name before when I studied chlorine dioxide, but, but tell us how that's connected.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: My dad is a pioneer in the field of chlorine dioxide.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: Uh, [00:10:00] the way he got into this was back in the 1970s. He had a company that was selling ultrasonic equipment and. One of these devices was an ultrasonic tank, like a cleaning tank, that you might see now that's used for cleaning jewelry. Um, it's a, it's a common, uh, it's a common device that's used in labs and whatnot.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And he was looking for disinfectant to use in the ultrasonic tank. cleaning tank so that he could clean and sterilize at the same time. And so he was looking at all the regular standard disinfectants, bleach, alcohol, iodine, none of them were appropriate for various reasons. And he had come across chlorine dioxide in the literature because chlorine dioxide was used at the time As a disinfectant for treating municipal water supplies, uh, it was first used back in 1944 at Niagara Falls water treatment plant for disinfecting, uh, water and, and removing foul tastes and [00:11:00] odors.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And so it was known as a very powerful disinfectant, but it wasn't actually available. He couldn't get it anywhere. He tried to obtain it and he couldn't get it. No one, no one could. And the reason is because chlorine dioxide is a gas, and it's not easily transportable. And there was no way to sort of have it on your tabletop.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: Like, um, you can't just sort of get some and use it. So, he went ahead, long story short, I came up with a way to do that because he's like, this looks great. This looks perfect for what I want. Um, and so he went on to patent a method of using, of making corn dioxide for personal small scale uses. And while he was doing that, and it's not that he, he developed the only way of doing this.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: It was, he came up with a way of making it easy to do [00:12:00] and usable, suitable for use on the skin. And. As he was developing this method, he started using it on himself. And he started using it on his cuts and scrapes and pretty much everywhere on his body. And it was healing, um, any kind of wound. And he wasn't having any adverse events.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And it was working on everything. And he realized that not only is this an amazingly fast disinfectant, but it's also a great wound healer. And those two things are not found with other disinfectants. And so he patented this method of making it. And that opened up the field of Chlorine Dioxide for personal uses.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And that was back in 1978. And he went ahead and created a company called Alcybe Corp. And This, the companies started doing testing on, on their formulas. They were coming up with ways of making it stable, making it, um, easy to use, um, because, because it's a [00:13:00] gas, uh, you know, how, how do you create it, how do you store it, how do you, how do you make it easy to use?
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: So they worked a lot on, on various formulations and they started testing them. Uh, they, and they worked with, um, independent labs all over the world, um, but mainly all across the U. S. Um, and They were finding that, yes, it was an incredibly fast disinfectant. It was killing all bacteria, virus, fungus, yeast, spores, everything they were testing on.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And not only was it killing it, it was killing it fast. And then they found that, It didn't have toxicity, so they started doing a lot of toxicity tests, and it wasn't damaging, um, skin cells, it wasn't damaging, you know, animal cells, it only, it only has an effect on, uh, like single celled organisms, and, so, this was incredible, and it opens up, you know, countless numbers of fields of use.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: [00:14:00] Um, he also worked with various government agencies, and, uh, maybe some of the people who are watching this have seen, uh, there's a, a, a, uh, video documentary that had been put out called The Universal Antidote, and, um, The term comes from the work that my dad did with NASA, um, who recognized chlorine dioxide as the, as they coined the term a universal antidote because it worked on so many different things.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: So I worked on all these organisms and it had so many applications, um, in the automotive field for medical uses, for agriculture, just, um, everywhere that it could be used. So, um, that documentary is a great way to get introduced into, um, the history and the chemistry and the uses of chlorine dioxide. And [00:15:00] again, it's called the.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: Universal Antidote. If you just go to theuniversalantidote. com, it'll come up and, um, um, They talk about us in there and they talk about some of the newer uses of chlorine dioxide as well. And, and so that's a great introduction. And so, my dad focused his efforts on topical uses of chlorine dioxide. Um, and you may be more familiar, and I know you've talked with, you know, some of your other, um, people you've interviewed about drinking it.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: We didn't get into that side of it, so we focus on the topical uses, and so, his company Alcyde got, uh, went public, and then it got bought out by Ecolab. And, um, Their, their focus really was in the animal, um, husbandry, uh, fields, and, uh, they had gotten an EPA approval as a hard surface disinfectant, but they weren't [00:16:00] developing the technology for all the uses that my dad knew.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And uh, so he started up a, the new, our new company, and that's our company now, Frontier Pharmaceutical, so that we could continue the development of the technology for more uses. We focus now on oral care. We have a mouthwash and a toothpaste. Uh, we have a nasal spray called Snoot and, uh, Michelle is, is my partner in that company.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And, uh, we also have skin care and wound care products. Um, and that's been our focus. Yeah, I'll
Michelle Herman: kind of add on to that. It's, um, you know, one of the things that, uh, that. Came up, you know, and actually like I was going to ask you too, Sam, like, how did you, how did you first hear about chlorine dioxide? And, and was it about, you know, the gas and water drinking it, or was it the products or, you know, I always, we're always kind of, um, Really intrigued by how people come across it and what they think.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, the way I discovered [00:17:00] it, or heard about it, is I first heard about it from a lawyer, Todd Callender. And I've had him on a previous episode, and he mentions, Oh, I had this knee infection, so I started drinking it, and I was kind of sticking my head in the sand about this bladder cancer that he had, and it got rid of his knee infection, and then lo and behold, it also got rid of his bladder cancer.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then his father took it, because his father had EMS, Um, you know, multiple sclerosis, and it cured his dad's multiple sclerosis. And then, this is when I was in the army still. I got an email, um, from someone, and I'll leave all names and identifiers out, uh, but I got an email from someone, and it was just kind of, it was a vague email, and so, called this person back, because I was like, hey, let's talk, and he kind of felt me out to see how open I was to new ideas, and then when he realized that, you know, yeah, this guy's pretty open to ideas, he told me about the Universal Antidote, and, because he, he has a contact with the person that made that website, uh, and eventually I [00:18:00] got to talk with him.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: with the person who made the Universal Antidote website. Um, that person has had an invitation to come here, but because of similar reasons and fears of, of the FDA and things like that, he, he decided it's best, or that person decided it's best for that person to not come here. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a great website and I'll put a link down below for the Universal Antidote.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's a great way to get introduced into, you know, how this has been used, how it's been used to treat, um, patients. In other countries, people use it for malaria and it seemed to get completely get rid of malaria and different cancers and there's research in other countries going on right now, uh, to use this for cancer.
Michelle Herman: Yeah, that's such a weird coincidence. Um, you know, Val and I, you know, and her dad, um, you know, we've been just so, like, nose to the grindstone and, and just, you know, slaving away and, you know, we actually were aware that people were drinking it and I even talked to Howard Allinger about it and, and it was kind of like, eh, would it really work?
Michelle Herman: And [00:19:00] that, that just really wasn't his area of interest. So we never really pursued it. And, and frankly, we did, um, We did kind of stay at arm's length, um, from, from that kind of movement. And so we really had really very, very minimal connection with them. And, you know, just in the last two years, I think really because of COVID, what's happened with COVID, um, the, the conversations about chlorine dioxide have just, just exploded.
Michelle Herman: And, and I think it's kind of because of the ivermectin situation, the hydroxychloroquine is now people are realizing that, oh, just because the FDA says, You know, don't use it. It's not approved XYZ. You know, it doesn't mean that there's not value in these. And so we actually, you know, we never, I never heard Todd calendar's name until like a year ago.
Michelle Herman: And, um, and we had no idea. And so we actually got a, got to meet him, um, on a video call last last year. And, um, so we sent them all our products and he was like, Oh my God, your products are fantastic. And. And what we've kind of found is, you know, all the stuff that was happening primarily internationally, [00:20:00] um, because a lot of times, you know, these countries, they don't have any money, you know, like this common phrase, like, oh, be sure to talk to your doctor, ask your doctor, and you feel like we don't have a doctor.
Michelle Herman: We're like dirt poor. What are you talking about? So, you know, because of the poverty, because of just the situation in a lot of these countries, um, they're, they just talk to each other. And, you know, it's just a different world. So, you know, they're very open to these things that are happening. And so we, we've been just incredibly surprised and, um, thrilled that all of this activity has been going on.
Michelle Herman: Really, for 10 15 years, and it's really heated up, um, the last 3 years, and so what we've, what we've found is, um, that once you understand what chlorine dioxide is, like with Todd, you know, somebody, somebody basically said, Hey, you know, what have you got to lose? You know, you've got this horrible cancer thing, you know, you might as well try this, right?
Michelle Herman: And when people are desperate, and they, they're like, yeah, I'll try anything. Uh, it sounds crazy, but I'll do it. And, you know, that totally opened his eyes, and, and, you know, but, you know, the whole concept of, you know, even on the Universal Antidote or Andreas Kalkar, it's like, okay, well, you got to [00:21:00] take Part A and Part B, and then you mix it, and then you do this, it's really kind of a complicated process for some people, and, um, they've, they've done a lot of work on coming up with protocols, and how do you use it, and testimonials, um, but when you realize that there's, um, Really, essentially a ready made product.
Michelle Herman: Tastes good, feels good, works great, that you don't have to figure out what's the parts per million. You don't have to, you know, infuse it into a jar. Um, that's really, these people are, uh, they're kind of our biggest fans now. Um, because they really understand what the compound can do. And they like to be able to easily incorporate it into their daily life.
Michelle Herman: So mouthwash, toothpaste, nasal spray, um, even the wound care. So it's, it's really, that audience has been, uh, fantastic for us, really.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I would say I've described this to some people that I know, you know, just in friendship relationships, you know, like a church or wherever, and they're like, Man, that seems complicated.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I mix this with that, and mix that with this, and then I, you know, stand on my head, and I do this, that, and the other, and it's, and it's, it's really not that [00:22:00] complicated, but it, it, it comes off as seeming complicated, and it comes off as seeming, you're going to mix an acid and, and some salt, and you're going to do what now?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I, I get those concerns.
Michelle Herman: Because Yeah, it sounds crazy. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: When I, when I talked to all the guys I talked to, Todd Callender and the guy who made the, um, the website, the, uh, the Universal Antidote website, I'm like, I was like, okay, well, I'm interested, but I gave it to my cat first, because my cat was on death's door.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So it's like, well, I mean, the cat's going to die later today anyways. And then It continued to live for a year after a short treatment of the stuff. So I mean, it's, it's absolutely incredible.
Michelle Herman: Wow. Wow. That's, that's actually amazing. I'm, I'm glad your, your cat, um, uh, had a lengthy extension of their life.
Michelle Herman: Um, yeah, it was funny. A lot of people, they'll try it on their pet first and that's almost everybody's story. It's like, well, I gave it to my dog. My dog is fine or better. Um, cause it is kind of scary. And I think, you know, what, what we've done and really what Howard and Val have done, you know, like here's the mouthwash.
Michelle Herman: I mean, it's, it's like super easy on your [00:23:00] bathroom counter. Yeah. You know, a couple of pumps of A and B, let it sit for 10, 15 seconds. And, you know, to do that, if you were going to mix chlorine dioxide, mix it up, um, honestly, it tastes terrible. And if it's too strong, it'll etch your teeth. So it's not a pleasant experience to try to use it on, on a topical, uh, or oral or nasal application.
Michelle Herman: And, um, when people realize that we have these products, it just makes it so much easier. And we've had people that literally, you know, they have no idea this is actually really chlorine dioxide. Um, and some people who've been. No, I'll never do that. That's insane. Um, you know, they get somebody, somebody sends them a little box of snoot in the mail because they have sinus issues or a cold or they're traveling.
Michelle Herman: Um, and then they're like, Oh, my God, this is great. I love it. And, uh, so I think a lot of people, um, kind of try it because they're desperate. They've tried everything. It doesn't work. And I hear about it from someone. And I don't think they really fully understand chlorine dioxide. Um, but they're like hooked on the product because it actually does things that nothing else does.
Michelle Herman: So it's, it's really an interesting kind of [00:24:00] evolution and, you know, from education awareness to, um, kind of adoption, uh, cause it is, it's, it's, it's an education, it's, you know, there, these are, it's not just another scope or another Listerine, it's not another Afrin, um, it's just such a different compound that it's, it's, yeah, it almost, you know, kind of seems too good to be true.
Michelle Herman: Um, but. It is true.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So Michelle, can you explain what snoot is?
Michelle Herman: Yes. Um, so, and actually it's kind of an interesting story. So, um, Howard, Valerie's dad, um, you know, he was just a chronic inventor, serial inventor. And you know, it's, it's, it's kind of what happens when you learn what chlorine dioxide does, how it works, all the different pathogens that it goes after, you know, how it breaks up biofilm.
Michelle Herman: You really want to You just can't stop yourself. You keep just like, What about this? What about that? Let's make this kind of gel that gel. I mean, you just the possibilities are endless. And, um, I think actually, the first Gulf War, he had put together a nasal spray for people out in Afghanistan. You know, there's all this dust.
Michelle Herman: There's, uh, you know, fall out from [00:25:00] all kinds of chemical things that are happening there and gunpowder and all these things. Um, and I'm not really quite sure what happened with that. But about I guess in 2009, um, actually, my husband at the time, um, Uh, was working with another company in Los Angeles that, uh, these guys had actually just bought a company that had, that was using chlorine dioxide as a room and car deodorizer.
Michelle Herman: And so as part of that, they also had a package for skunks. Um, so if your dog got sprayed by a skunk, your dog smells, then he comes in and rubs himself all over your furniture, your room smells, and then you put him in the car, your car smells. And they were buying the, uh, the doggy shampoo from Frontier Pharmaceutical.
Michelle Herman: Howard Allager had invented a pet shampoo, uh, with chlorine dioxide that gets rid of skunk smell, which is really hard to get rid of. And so they started talking and, um, essentially my, my husband was, was, you know, we, we did all this research to find out like what it does. And, you know, it's shocking when you first hear about it, um, the capabilities that it has.
Michelle Herman: And the fact that it's really, it breaks up biofilm, makes it an excellent solvent for mucus. [00:26:00] And, you know, if you're getting a sinus infection, we just, actually, somebody, Dr. Saeed, um, I forget his last name, he just did a post a couple days ago on how sinus infections are almost always fungal. Fungals.
Michelle Herman: Fungus based. And a lot of these antifungals are, they're horrific medications. And a lot of doctors, um, have been historically prescribing antibiotics for sinus infections, which, of course, don't work. They don't like to give them because it's, um, The infection is really in the layer of your sinus cavity.
Michelle Herman: It's not in your bloodstream. So taking an oral medication to go through your bloodstream doesn't really do anything, but you know, patients want something. And, um, so anyway, at one point, uh, my husband was like, about to get a sinus infection and, and he just thought, Wow, what do I know about chlorine dioxide?
Michelle Herman: Hmm. Kills virus, bacteria, mold, fungus, yeast, biofilm. And so he actually took, um, I think it was the doggy ear spray, um, that we had from Frontier Pharmaceutical that had like a long pointy thing on it. And he took the doggy ear spray and he sprayed it up his nose. And um, it didn't really feel great [00:27:00] because it had some other ingredients that are great for a dog's ear But really not great for a human's nose And um, he blew his nose all this disgusting stuff came out And and he never got sick and it was like eight hours went by before he reached for another tissue to blow his nose And he was like, oh my god, this works.
Michelle Herman: So he called howard and um, he had just told howard Um, like listen howard you have way too many products. You need to focus like stop inventing all these crazy products You know, you got you got way too many things going on You need to just focus And, um, so he calls Howard, he's like, Howard, oh my God, have you thought about making a nasal spray out of this?
Michelle Herman: And Howard is like, of course, duh. And he's like, just holding the focus, I shouldn't make any more products, but of course it would be great. And my husband's like, I, sorry, sorry, forgot, nevermind. And then a couple of weeks later, Howard calls and, and, and the whole thing was just so funny because he was like, okay, me and you 50 50.
Michelle Herman: And my husband's like, what? What are you talking about? He's like the nasal spray. Like, I'll make it, but, you know, at that point, Howard was like 80 something, he's like, I'll, I'll make it, I'll write the [00:28:00] patent, I'll get an NIH study, but I'm, that's it. I'm not doing anything else. You, you know, make the packaging, marketing the website, you guys do everything else.
Michelle Herman: And so that's what we did. And so our first package run was actually May of 2010. And so it's, it's essentially, it's the same thing, it's a, you can see it's a, it's a two part product, and it's an A and B, and it comes with a little, cute little nasal sprayer, And, uh, essentially this is, uh, this kit is enough to fill this 20 ml sprayer from 6 to 12 times.
Michelle Herman: Um, once you mix the A and B together, the chlorine dioxide will start to generate. And, um, it'll basically reach a peak strength at about 12 hours. And then it just starts to kind of, uh, dissipate. It'll actually, uh, cause it's a gas. So, uh, the gas will actually come out of the sprayer. You can actually smell it.
Michelle Herman: You can smell, you can actually smell the cinnamon, which is not really gas, but, um, after about seven, eight days, the chlorine dioxide has essentially reduced itself down to, you know, just maybe a handful of parts per million. There's really nothing left, but the beauty of chlorine dioxide [00:29:00] is that when it breaks down, it breaks down into salt water.
Michelle Herman: So even if you filled your sprayer and you didn't use it all in the, you know, in a week, you could still use it, still salt water, saline, which is, which is not bad. So, um, this is probably the easiest, most convenient way for you to incorporate chlorine dioxide into your life. You know, it's literally something you just, you know, fill this little sprayer, put it in your pocket, your purse, carry it around with you.
Michelle Herman: And, um, and it's, it's, it's phenomenal for, um, you know, for traveling, even like construction people, you know, you're all, all that dust and sawdust and, um, thing, um, even landscaping. I mean, there's so many uses for it and it works great. It's not addictive. Um, like Afrin, Afrin people actually use this product to get off of Afrin.
Michelle Herman: Um, and off of steroids. Um, you know, so because it's, it's not a drug. It's not going to cause, you know, jittering or dryness, um, or, you know, sleepiness. So, yeah, it's been a really, you know, interesting, uh, process for us. And, you know, there's, it's, there's nothing else like it on the market. So, you know, it's an educational process to really [00:30:00] get people to kind of understand what it is.
Michelle Herman: But, um, yeah, we're, we're, it's, it's, we're having a lot of fun, especially the last couple of years have been, it's been great. Just, you know, the documentary coming out and, you know, All the people that we've met through that, um, it's, it's, um, it's, it's really fun. And we, we've got some exciting things on tap and, and, uh, it's, it's really nice to see it start to take off.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Great. Thank you. Valerie, what products do y'all still have available with your company?
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: So in addition to the snoot, we have, uh, as we, uh, Michelle showed and I've been trying to show our mouthwash and again, super simple to use. You just mix equal amounts of parts A and B. I was sort of trying to demonstrate while Michelle was talking.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: I actually have some in here already, but it's usually three squirts of part A, three squirts of part B. You wait about 15 seconds, and you're good to go. So, we've got the formulation perfected so that it generates the [00:31:00] exact amount of chlorine dioxide that you need. There's no, um, you don't have to dilute, you don't have to do anything, and it's good to go.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And this is stable for two years, so it's always available on your shelf. Um, and there's no fuss or question about how to use it, and that's what we've really focused our efforts on with all our products. So, We have that, and we have our toothpaste, uh, which is also a two part system. And so our mouthwash, toothpaste, and the snoot are all two part systems.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And the reason they're two parts, for anyone who's not familiar with corn dioxide, is that The way you generate the chlorine dioxide gas is by activating sodium chlorite. And the sodium chlorite is in the part A, and the activator is in the part B. So, as we, as we mix the two, the chlorine dioxide is now generating and building up in here.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: Um, with the toothpaste, you do [00:32:00] the same sort of thing where you just, Just taking an equal amount of part A and part B, I'm just gonna try to do this, um, on your toothbrush and you just start brushing and the chlorine dioxide activates as you brush and it's just ready to go. And it took us a really long time to figure out how to do this, make it stable, make it taste good, and get the chlorine dioxide to, to generate immediately.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: That was not easy to do, um, and it also protects the teeth. It tastes good. Um, and it works great. Um, so two ways of getting the chlorine dioxide, um, into the mouth. It's great for bleeding gums, it's great for any kind of infection, it's just a great cleaner. They're great, uh, for deodorizing and for, for, um, Improving your breath, because chlorine dioxide, one of its many benefits is that it's a very potent deodorizing agent.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: It breaks down sulfur compounds, as well as smoke, garlic, um, every kind of [00:33:00] odor, so lots of benefits with the oral care products. Um, what my dad did, because some people still don't like to mix, and they still find it, uh, Uh, a burden, even though some people kind of like being a chemist, they like to mix the two parts and they feel like they're really doing something, they're really creating something, it's not just a gimmick.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: Um, but, in order to make it even easier, my dad came up with a way of actually complexing the chlorine dioxide into a single stable complex. And this is really revolutionary. Um, this was never done before. And so we've We've used that technology now for our skin care and wound care products. So we have, um, wound care liquid and we also have gels that have the chlorine dioxide in the single part.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: So these are ready to go right off the shelf. There's no mixing. You're getting the chlorine dioxide and they're [00:34:00] formulated in the. appropriate concentrations for the application that they're labeled for. So for wounds, you're getting the amount of chlorine dioxide that you need, and it's available immediately, so they're really easy to use.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: The efficacy of this single part product we've tested is just as good or better as the two part. Um, and has the same safety profile. Um, so those products are available for wound care. And then we also have skin care. Um, well, before I move off that, we have product, uh, called Irrigant, which is for, uh, an ear cleanser, which is used, um, mainly for animals, but can also be used by humans for any kind of infection.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And the cool thing about chlorine dioxide for use in ear infections, especially for cats and dogs, is ear infections can be caused by either bacteria or yeast. And that's it. Typically, a [00:35:00] vet cannot prescribe a medication until they've cultured it, because they have to find out whether it's bacteria or yeast, because if they prescribe the wrong medication, they can make it worse.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: But because Chlorine Dioxide kills both, you don't have to worry about it, so it makes it easier. Easy to use because you can, um, use it on any kind of infection. It's also water based so it doesn't build up, um, like oily, waxy build up in the ear like some of the medications do. So that's really easy, easy product to use to keep ears clean or for infections.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: Um, we also have product for warts and for nail fungus. Call nail fungus, nail it. And for warts, it's called Was A Wart. Again, single part, really easy to use. You, where you just put it right on the nail. It's safe for use on the skin. Uh, really easy to use and it works, works great. [00:36:00] Um, we also have product for acne and again it's just a gel, um, that's used as a spot treatment and, um, we also have, um, product for canker sores.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: So lots of products, uh, there's more in the pipeline, uh, we have a face wash and a body wash that we'll be coming out with. We actually sell now through a distributor, um, but basically that's it. Again, because chlorine dioxide has so many applications that it's just sort of endless. So we've had to focus.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: So this is our focus for now. And, um, you know, there's more, more to come. We've got the formulations, you know, figured out. We've got the technology figured out. And, um, uh, those are the products that we're working on. That we've got at the moment.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, that's wonderful. I haven't used all your products, but I do know just from my own chlorine dioxide use at home, if I get a scratch or if I get a bite by some insect and I put it on there, it heals so much quicker [00:37:00] and like the burn from whatever sting goes away so much faster than if I did nothing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Or using the other product, really.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: My friend, just a case in point, my friend came in the other day. She has a cat. And she's like, Val, I just got scratched by my cat. She got a big scratch down her nose and she was holding a tissue to it. And she's like, it won't stop bleeding, it hurts. And, you know, cat scratches can be really dangerous, uh, because they carry so much bacteria, especially around the face.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And so I took our spray, um, I actually, um, this, this spray, I actually put it on, sprayed it onto a tissue and just put it on there. It stopped the bleeding instantly. Um, and disinfects it all at the same time, and she was good to go. Like, it just stopped, she could take the tissue off, and it healed beautifully, and um, Chlorine Dioxide is an incredible wound healer.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And it's also great for scar reduction, because it actually, um, breaks the keratin [00:38:00] bonds, so, which is what scar tissue is made of. And there's lots of studies on that, that we've done. My dad did back with, with Alcide, and um, just an incredible wound healer, and you can use it on. Small wounds, big open wounds.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: We used it on, we used it on diabetic ulcers. Um, and any kind of wound, it's safe. Burns. Uh, so, the fact that you know it'll handle any kind of infection that you're dealing with and you can use it safely on an open wound, um, even inside the body. Funny story. Back, back in the outside days, um, I used to, um, I was a bio major and I was working for my bio, my advisor and he was a rattlesnake expert up in the Adirondacks and so I was helping him process the rattlesnakes and he came running into the lab one day coming from the field and he's like, Val, get that stuff, get that stuff.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: He's like, [00:39:00] mix it up, hurry up. And so I mixed up, it was the outside at the time, like, what's, what's going on, what's going on? I had a bowl of it, and he had accidentally sliced open the snake with his snake grabber, and its guts were all pouring out, and this poor snake. So he takes the snake, and he, he put, like, pushes all the guts back into it, and he takes the bowl of outside, and he, he just emptied it into the snake.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Ha! Oh my goodness.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And then, he took a needle and thread, and he's like, just up the snake and snake was fine. So it's really, it's just amazing. All you know, you can just feel safe using it on, on anything. You can use it on your eyes and your ears and your nose, obviously. Um, and of course, like anything, it's dose related, um, there is a big tolerance range for use on the skin and even ingesting, as we know, obviously you have to be careful and, [00:40:00] and, um, you know, obviously if you get too high a concentration of chlorine dioxide to breathe it in, then, you know, you can run into trouble, but, you know, we're nowhere close to that with our products and it's like, completes away from any, any issue.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: We've done lots of toxicity and safety studies, uh, but it's incredible how safe it is and what an amazing wound healer it is.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And just a little more about the chlorine dioxide itself. Um, go back and listen to Dr. Manuel Apricio when he was on my show episode 79. Um, but I've personally seen, uh, a man who is having macular degeneration and he put drops of it in his eyes.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it reversed his macular degeneration. I personally know a man who, his son was having anaphylaxis due to a, a tree nut exposure. And the man gave a very strong concentration to his son, and the
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: It's amazing. I think there's so much we don't know, even still [00:41:00] about chlorine dioxide that, that we're, you know, we still have yet to learn that we're just scratching the surface. I think no pun intended,
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: you know, all the, all the work that's now being done with, with the oral ingestion is really amazing.
Michelle Herman: Yeah, it's, it's really kind of shocking to us. I mean, cause we really had, you know, I'd say essentially dismissed it. Right. As as being effective. And frankly, I think we we kind of thought it was crazy. And, you know, we've been been connecting, you know, with Andreas Kalkar and Carrie Rivera.
Michelle Herman: And, um, you know, just kind of all these people internationally and their stories are they are mind blowing. And I don't know if you've seen there's a there's a telegram channel. It's called the Universal Antidote. Um, and that's just an open channel. You can go there and literally search or there's like 75, 000 people in that group.
Michelle Herman: There's also a chat group and they have. It's really nicely arranged where all of the testimonials that have come in really from all over the [00:42:00] world. Um, people's, you know, using chlorine dioxide, you know, uh, in all these different variations. Um, also using our products. Um, you know, we, we were just, after the documentary came out, Val and I were like, oblivious.
Michelle Herman: We had no idea that all this stuff was happening. And so we didn't even go onto the telegram channel to like, maybe, I don't know, a year ago. And, um, and it was, it was amazing. These people's stories. And then I just typed in snoot and there was like all these people talking about snoot and like, wow. Um, and dioxirin, some mouthwash.
Michelle Herman: And so there's amazing stories and you can literally search for any element You know, diabetes, uh, eczema, um, you know, there's, you know, everybody, there's pictures, there's a lot of pet pictures where, you know, there's a dog or cat who had some horrible, you know, cancerous growth on their mouth or their eyes or somewhere on their body, and they describe what they did as a protocol, and they have pictures, you know, after x many days, the dog, cat was fine, just kind of like you said, um, and it, and it's really remarkable.
Michelle Herman: Um, you know, it's, [00:43:00] it's, you know, I think that's kind of the, The painful part about this is, you know, I'm sure you too, you know, your people here from friends and, you know, on Facebook and like, Oh, you know, my cat has cancer. My dog, you know, has cancer. And, you know, you just want to help these people. And, um, you know, it's like, it's so hard to sit here and just not, you know, shout it from the rooftops.
Michelle Herman: Um, Because there's, you know, there's hope there. There's absolutely things that, that are worth trying. Um, yeah, on, oh, on the cancer thing. We should actually mention that too. One of the, um, last patents, uh, Howard Allager got approved was for a cancerous tumor. Um, which, uh, Val, if you want to talk about that and just the testing that was done.
Michelle Herman: And actually, we'll send you that. We put together a presentation that we did at a couple events. We'll send that presentation to you. So if you want to, you know, use pieces of it or load it up. Um, there's some really good pictures of like, kind of before, after, before, during, and after.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Awesome. Is it a video?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. Because I can take it to the end of this, if it's a video.
Michelle Herman: Um, yeah, I can turn it into a video. [00:44:00] It's actually just slides, but I could, we could make it a video.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay. Or if I want to have, if you'd be willing to come back and talk me through it, we could do that too.
Michelle Herman: Oh, totally. Yeah, I mean, that could be another session.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: I can tell you a little about that, though. What, what, um, so the single part, single part, Um, formula that my dad came up with. He, he was thinking, you know, the only thing he hasn't worked on was cancer. And so we figured, alright, that's next on the list. And, and, um, so I th um, he could have talked to you a lot more about this, but cancers, tumors have a lot of polyenes in them and whatnot, and he knows that chlor dioxide would, would, um, neutralize or break those apart.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And anyway, we, we tried using the, uh, he calls it in tomb for intu into tumors, um, injecting. A very strong formula version of this into, uh, the tumors, and we tried all different kinds of tumors. We tried [00:45:00] brain tumor, colon, pancreatic, uh, lung cancer in athymic mice, which are mice without immune systems where they can grow these different, you know, human based tumors on their backs.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And we inject Our Intum into these tumors in a specific way and we found it took some experimenting, but we found it was sort of technique related but We the Intum disintegrates the tumor the full tumor within 24 hours The tumor is actually gone overnight And what was happening was Well, what happens is, it leaves a big gaping hole, and um, so the researchers that were doing this were like, well, you know, we had to euthanize the mice because it left this big wound, and we finally convinced them to just wait and see, you know, what would happen, you know, we think they'll [00:46:00] heal, and sure enough, they do.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And, uh, it takes about 15 days and, um, we've had multiple successes with these tumors, um, being obliterated and not coming back.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. And
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: with the, with the wounds healing, and yeah, we can show you slides of that. And we were doing a bunch of work, um, on this with a local university and, uh, after my dad passed, we kind of, uh, uh, we, we kind of stopped that work for the moment.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: And so, um, it's really exciting. We'd love to continue doing that work, but with everything going on, we, we've had to kind of put it on hold. Unfortunately.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's incredible. It's absolutely amazing.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: It's amazing. Yeah.
Michelle Herman: Yeah. When you, when you see these pictures of these mice, um, it's, it's shocking. Uh, actually we, we went to, uh, um, changing life and destiny conference recently in, in [00:47:00] Dallas.
Michelle Herman: And, um, you know, there's, there's actually a couple of people who are really into nitric oxide and have created some nitric oxide powders and, you know, supplements and things. And, uh, the guy did a presentation in one of the main sessions and he was actually talking about nitric oxide treatment for cancerous tumors.
Michelle Herman: And we're sitting there in the audience and he was like, okay, here's what we did with nitric oxide. Here was our protocol. And it was, you know, similar type of thing. Like here's a, some cancerous tumor or actually it was a wound, I think. And, uh, it was like, Everyone in the audience was like, wow, this is amazing.
Michelle Herman: This big, huge, gaping wound healed, but it took like six or eight months. And I just sat there thinking, oh, we can beat that. We did it overnight.
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: We did it overnight.
Michelle Herman: Yeah, so it's like there's a lot of great things out there that do amazing things and really can help that I, you know, it's great to see so many people open to, you know, the non standard, the quote unquote alternative, uh, medicine.
Michelle Herman: Um, you know, but it's like, okay, if you're going to go alternative, [00:48:00] you know, you might as well go all the way and chlorindex is probably the most, you know, there's maybe a few other things that, um, that are maybe more alternative than this, but it's, you can't argue with the results. Um, you know, it's easy.
Michelle Herman: It's so non toxic and it's, you know, it can be used so many different ways. And it's, it's, um, it's, it's exciting. I mean, we, we are really, actually, we met a couple of guys, um, at that event who have this big podcast with, you know, huge amount of followers. And, and they were like, uh, this stuff is amazing.
Michelle Herman: And they, they used our samples that we gave them and they're like, my God, my son, his headache went away and this is fantastic. And, and, and they, they actually interviewed us last, last month. And they're like, why is it that we've, We just heard about Clorindox like, like 30 days ago. Like, why is that? I'm like, well, yeah, it's, it's really, it's kind of criminal that people have not heard about it, but it's, you know, thanks to you, like yourself, um, being open to it and, and, um, taking a look at it.
Michelle Herman: I mean, I think, you know, like Val said, there, there's so many things that [00:49:00] can be done and, you know, the, the inventions and the ways to use it, uh, her and her dad, you know, came up with and tested and, um, Yeah, hopefully we get to a spot soon where we can really, um, start getting these things really into, you know, in, into medical practice, you know, uh, wound lavage, right.
Michelle Herman: For like, uh, surgical procedures. Like the fact that, um, so many of these in a hospital procedure or even an outpatient, you know, they're cutting into someone and they're using iodine, you know, to clean, to clean the skin. And like,
Valerie Alliger-Bograd: Yeah. As a pre procedural scrub, it's really helpful. It should be ubiquitous, you know,
Michelle Herman: it's ready to go.
Michelle Herman: It's, you know, it's like every surgical unit should have this. Every, you know, every guy in the army should have it in his backpack. Um, you know, this, these, this is such a simple two year shelf stable wound care. And, you know, we could make it, you know, viscous, you know, liquid for any kind of surgical thing, like before, during and after.
Michelle Herman: I mean, far superior to iodine. Um, you know, I'm safer. Okay. [00:50:00] safer. You know, they could even, you know, do a low parts per million and fog the surgical room to, you know, to kill, you know, kill every pathogen that that's out there. And I think that's another really interesting thing. Like the Um, so many countries, I mean, obviously what's going on kind of in Latin America, parts of Europe, um, but Japan, Japan and Taiwan are leaps and bounds ahead of the U.
Michelle Herman: S., um, in regards to their use of chlorine dioxide. So, for instance, uh, there was actually a study, which we can send you to, um, That it was, uh, it was Japan, uh, in Japan, and they put very low parts per million, uh, chlorine dioxide in the ventilation system in a school. And they tracked one classroom that had chlorine dioxide in the HVAC and another classroom that did not.
Michelle Herman: And they tracked it over a period of six months or a year. And the absenteeism in the one that had low parts per million chlorine dioxide was like almost non existent. And the one that didn't have it, they had all kinds of absenteeism because people are sick. So this is a compound that really should be used ubiquitously, you know, in our [00:51:00] HVAC systems, um, in your pool, in your spots.
Michelle Herman: In fact, I think almost every, um, Uh, casino in every hotel in Vegas now uses chlorine dioxide generating systems for their HVAC and their pool and spa because they had a bunch of issues with Legionella about 10, 15 years ago, and chlorine dioxide gets rid of Legionella. It's like one of the only things that does it, um, you know, just from an everyday aspect.
Michelle Herman: There's so many ways to incorporate this. Um, there was even actually when COVID came out. Um, I think I forget what country it was in. I think it was in somewhere in the UK. Um, uh, this bar, um, They had like a, they had built a structure like a, like you'd walk through like this little canal thing and it was like, you know, maybe three feet deep, you know, a person basically everybody had walked through and they had just like chlorine dioxide gas kind of like, um, fuming.
Michelle Herman: And so people would just walk through and they would get disinfected and then they'd all go into the bar. And so they stayed open the whole time, you know, so there's all these, you know, easy, incredible, safe uses for it that, you know, this whole COVID thing, you know, Don't even get me started on [00:52:00] that.
Michelle Herman: This is like never should have ever happened. It never needed to happen at all. Um, you know, and literally even just this, like having something like this to rinse away anytime you've breathed in any pathogens, you know, you can spray it on your nose, your ears, you can spray it at the back of your throat.
Michelle Herman: I've sprayed it on my eyes on accident. Doesn't, doesn't hurt or anything, you know, but that it's such a simple thing that, you know, just to wait until you get deathly ill and then have to go to the hospital and then be put on these drugs and a ventilator. Absolutely just so not necessary. Um, And really hospitals, why, you know, why aren't hospitals using this to ventilate to get rid of germs?
Michelle Herman: It's way better than a dirty mop. Um, you know, it's just Mind blowing that they don't oh even blood bag disinfection, right? This is a hot issue now that a lot of people who um are going through surgery They do not want to get vaccinated blood for a procedure. And so now there's even safe blood as an organization That's actually pairing um patients with another blood donor Uh, geographically, so they can get unvaccinated, [00:53:00] uh, COVID free vax blood.
Michelle Herman: And I talked to the guy and I was like, you know, Howard Allinger actually invented this process in, there's a paper from 1987 that they actually had this blood bag disinfection. I'll send that to you too. And it's like, it was like the, the Navy medical system and they're like, yeah, we did this because, uh, chlorine dioxide, the outside product, uh, basically sterilizes the blood, disinfects it and, uh, kills at the time they actually did it for, for AIDS, for HIV.
Michelle Herman: And so there's a paper from the Navy, um, it's published that it's like, yeah, instead of like, because I don't know what they do now for, um, like for, for donated blood, like they try to screen people, but a lot of people don't know they're, they're a carrier of some of these things, and then maybe they only test it once.
Michelle Herman: You know, for like four or five different, you know, viruses or pathogens, but it's like, okay, well, how many others out there? There's hundreds. There's probably thousands. Why wouldn't you just clean the whole blood bag and just get on with it? So it's, it's, um, it's really, you know, in one way, it's tragic that, that all this stuff was known about was tested.
Michelle Herman: [00:54:00] Um, you know, government entities knew about it. Hospitals, labs, um, doctors, scientists, chemists, you know, they all, they all know about this stuff. Like, where did it go? Um, I mean, it's, it's, it's It's, it's tragic, um, but it's also exciting because it's like we're, we're kind of, um, on the frontier again, so to speak, no pun intended.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, and one reason why it's, it's kept so hush hush is I put episode 79 with Dr. Manuel Apricio on YouTube, and it stayed up for about four hours before it was taken down because it specifically goes against the community standard guidelines. You cannot talk about chlorine dioxide. You just keep, you're not allowed, they will take your videos down.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank goodness Rumble allows me to keep them up.
Michelle Herman: Yeah,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: um, and another place that people may have heard this and they don't realize they heard about it is, you know, politics aside, whether you like the man or not, that's not the point. But when President Trump said, we're going to inject people with bleach, he wasn't talking about bleach.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: He was talking about chlorine dioxide.
Michelle Herman: Yeah, you know, it's, it's really funny. Oh, did you see [00:55:00] there was something just came out, um, I don't know who published this, just about like, um, you know, uh, UV. Uh, treatment of, of vaccinated blood. It's like, so like everything he said, like, was totally accurate. And we just gave him all kinds of hell and it's like, all right, people.
Michelle Herman: Um, yeah. Uh, yeah. Like, cause, and actually what he said, I actually tried to find that. That clip at
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133. Dr. Joel Wallskog, REACT19
Today I talk with Dr. Joel Wallskog from REACT-19. He talks about his covid vaccine injury and how REACT-19 is working to help those that have been vaccine injured as well.
https://react19.org/
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133. Dr. Joel Wallskog, REACT19
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Dr. Joel Wallskog: [00:00:00] First, I realized I wasn't alone and for all the people that have been injured, one of the things is almost everybody that's been injured really feels abandoned. Abandoned by the healthcare system, abandoned by our politicians and our government and our federal regulatory agencies, but unfortunately many times abandoned by our friends, family, and employers.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: But really I left there knowing that, you know, we had to do something bigger and that's where Brianne Dressen and I, who are the co chairs of RAC 19. Really started reacting keen as a, as a formal organization later in November of 2000 21. And we literally took those original 10 people and now we represent almost 40, 000 americans that are injured by the covid shots.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking. This dinner is from River Bend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones. Never been given antibiotics. Never been given mRNA [00:01:00] vaccines. It's raised in the U. S. A. It's processed in the U. S. A. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. That's MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed, I've been wearing this t shirt for [00:02:00] a few episodes now. I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: okay, well, thank you for joining me again. And I first want to give a shout out to For all of my Patreon supporters, I've got Too Tough giving 30 a month. I've got an anonymous family donor giving 20. 20 a month. I have the Plandemic Rippermando level, giving 17. 76 a month.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr. Anna, Frank, Brian, Shell, and me. We have Kevin Alanos [00:03:00] and Patton Bev giving 10 a month. There's the Refine Not Burned tier at 5 with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. Addison Mulder is giving 3 a month and Frank is giving 1. 50.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. And it is by far the best beef that I have personally ever tasted. My next guest, Dr. He has a very interesting story and, and, and we're going to be delicate with this because He's been injured and, and he, he's here to talk about that a little bit, um, mainly to, to tell people, yes, this is real and he's a physician [00:04:00] and, and how it's affected his life to a little bit, but to a bigger extent, what I really want him to talk about is the support that's available, how he's changing legislature, how he's helping move the ball significantly so that we can actually get people that have been harmed the help that they need and the support
Dr. Joel Wallskog: that they need.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Dr. Wolsock, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. So
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: tell us a bit about life before the COVID shot happened and, and then some of the symptoms that you had. And then when you discovered where, where you were in your mind, because you're a physician, you, you know, you, you obviously, you know, said, well, I need to do this to help friends and family.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then at what point, how you got to that spot where you realized
Dr. Joel Wallskog: this is what caused it?
Dr. Joel Wallskog: When I was injured, I was about 50 years old and I was really, what I would say is in the prime of my career. Uh, I'm an orthopedic [00:05:00] surgeon by background. I have a specialty in bone replacement and I stayed very busy and, uh, I really had what I would call as a mature practice where I would see probably Five to 6, 000 patients in the clinic each year and I did about a thousand operations a year and I was in a great place.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: I have four healthy kids. I'm married to my college sweetheart, and I really was in, I would say, the prime of my life. I had no significant medical problems. I literally took the testosterone injection and watched my cholesterol a little bit beyond that. In the summer, I was very involved in water sports.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: I did things like, uh, wakeboarding and still skiing and so forth like that. I was very, very busy. Loved my job and still love Obvious and my family and my wife. But then things changed. So 2020, as everyone can recall, was a bizarre time. And I remember we were on a family vacation down in Florida in March of that year.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And, you know, it was a surreal [00:06:00] time when, you know, they declared the public health emergency and everything got shut down for us. We were down in Florida. We thought, hey, this is great. We just get an extended vacation. Uh, and then, uh, eventually went back to work. Eventually, you know, I, I, back in December of 2020, I, I got my call.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: I was part of that one aid group, which many healthcare providers were in. I got my call in the end of December and I did what I was supposed to do, which is I went in and got my shot, my one and only Moderna shot on December 30th of 2020. I got it over my lunch hour, went back to work. It was very unremarkable.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And about a week later, I started stumbling at work and then I fell. And, uh, it was at that point where I didn't really connect the dots with the shot, but I certainly knew something more ominous was going on. Because I was literally sitting in a patient exam room and I tried to stand up as I was talking to the patient and my legs didn't respond so I used my arms to push myself up off the [00:07:00] examining table and I fell back and at that time I knew something more serious was going on.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: To make a long story short, it took me about two weeks to put things together with the shot. But my diagnosis very quickly was transverse myelitis. So I have an injury to my spinal cord at about about the T8 to T9 level. And it was a couple of weeks later when I remembered having read about the AstraZeneca trials in the United Kingdom, where the AstraZeneca trials were delayed three times for, or was it, I'm sorry, two times for three cases of transverse myelitis.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And it's that time where I kind of started to put things together, where I was totally healthy until seven days after my shot. And then my life kind of. At least my professional life kind of came to a crash and fault. You know, I tried different medications, I tried idosteroids, I tried a medicine called IVIG or IV immune globulin.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Nothing helped. My [00:08:00] neurologist told me to take three months off of work. Uh, you know, and I'm certainly a workaholic, so I told him I agreed to take two weeks off work. Uh, and then I went back to work after two weeks and tried to work part days operating, but by the time I was Done after two part days of operating on Monday and Tuesday, I got home on Tuesday night and then couldn't get out of bed.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: I was pretty much bedridden till Friday. And that's where I knew I was at a much, uh, much more difficult situation. And frankly, uh, after those two days back to work, I've never been back to work since. So for me, 2021 was a very troubling year where I certainly lost my career. You know, I trained for about 15 years after high school and And it certainly had a job which I loved and I loved going to work.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Uh, but folks I never defined my whole person as as my job and and again that probably saved me but It wasn't until november of 2021 where I got invited out to [00:09:00] Washington dc to speak at a senator ron johnson press conference and and there was about 10 of us injured people And then there was about 10 or so professionals that were, you know, experts in the area of vaccine injury.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And we all presented and for me, that was a very transformational moment. At which time, first, I realized I wasn't alone, and for all the people that have been injured, one of the things is, I'll tell you, everyone, almost everybody that's been injured really feels abandoned. Abandoned by the healthcare system, abandoned by our politicians and our government and our federal regulatory agencies, but unfortunately, many times, abandoned by our friends, family, and employees.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: But really I left there knowing that, you know, we had to do something bigger. And that's where Brianne Dressen and I, who are the co chairs of React 19 really started React 19 as a, as a formal organization later in November of 2021. [00:10:00] And we literally took those original 10 people. And now we represent almost 40, 000 Americans that are injured by the COVID shots.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's incredible that you have been able to gather that many people together. That have been injured by it, that have been willing to come forward because that's, that's what breaks my heart about these people that have been injured. They did what they thought they were supposed to do. Some of them were berated by their family, by their coworkers, by their bosses to get this thing into them that, you know, some felt great doing it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Some were reluctant to, and then they have a problem with it and then they get ostracized and that that's just, that's heartbreaking to me.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Yeah, I agree with you, Sam. I mean, again, first of all, uh, you know, and your listeners, I'm not looking for anyone's sympathy. I knowingly got the shot. And again, I would argue that I didn't get informed consent.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: However, I knowingly got the shot and I'm not looking for anyone's sympathy, but. The reason I do what I do, it's easier for me to [00:11:00] disappear into early retired life and keep my mouth shut and just disappear, but the reason I do this, and we all do this at React 19, is to serve these people that have really been traumatized twice.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: They've been traumatized because of their injury itself, and then secondarily, they're traumatized by how they're treated after their injury, and it's really heartbreaking. You know, you know, it's very politically hard or polarized, which it shouldn't be. You know, the right says we're crazy, we're dumb. We got the shot.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: The left says we're crazy anti vaxxers, which is, is, is truly insulting when we tried to get the vaccine. But regardless, I view our, our mission at reacting is a completely non political. Um, fall to action to help these people. Uh, but unfortunately, in reality, all these people are uh, really gaslit by, by their providers.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: They're falling in an anxiety disorder. Their family and friends look at them and they're like, they're [00:12:00] nuts. I remember back in 2021 how I felt, even being in the healthcare system. Looked at like I was brave even in mentioning this could be happening to me, but you know, the truth, you know, the winds of change are occurring, you know, and now who doesn't know somebody that either was injured by the shots or know somebody that knows somebody that was injured.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: The ones are changing and as we said a little bit offline, you know, my goal in 2022, 2022 for organization was really to seek acknowledgement, acknowledgement for these people, just recognition, and that can be super helpful for these people. But now in 2024, we're way beyond, okay, we are seeking really beyond acknowledgement.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: We're really seeking adequate, just and fair compensation for them. And we're trying to be leaders and trying to find them adequate care because they're not getting compensated and not getting care. The compensation program that because [00:13:00] again, the shots, the covid shots aren't, you know, a typical vaccine.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: They're called a countermeasure because the public health emergency. We can't seek remedy financially through the vaccine injury compensation program. We have to seek remedy through the countermeasures injury compensation program. And as of March, which is the last date I saw numbers from the CICP, only 12 Americans have been compensated for a total of 44, 000 for their COVID shot injuries.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And, and really that's horrible. We know there's literally thousands of people out there The C. I. C. P. Program has a 98 percent denial rate. So we're working at react 19 very hard. We have a lobbyist for six months out in D. C. We are working very, very diligently and very hard to really get these people adequate and just compensation, which they're not receiving.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: The other thing is, is we're [00:14:00] really working towards getting them adequate care. Most providers, medical providers, particularly early. From employed providers in university settings have no idea about available diagnostics and treatments of these injuries They don't why it's because they're told how to practice medicine So if I were to you know If you know any of your listeners out there that are looking for adequate care stay away from the big centers the university centers the employed You know, mega providers spot.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Why? Because that's the worst location, in my opinion, to get care. You have to, you have to go back to the independent providers that are truly still scientists, that look at literature themselves, that don't have an agenda outside of this, these health organizations and university settings that can give these people adequate care.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: One thing you said is, there has been 44, 000 divided amongst 12 people. That [00:15:00] comes out to 3, 666. That is horrendous. That is despicable. That that's not nearly enough to cover. I mean, like you, sir, you went from standing from 12 to 18 hours a day. I'm guessing as a surgeon, that's what surgeons typically stand and work hard as entire time.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and now you haven't been back to work in years. And it's just, there's no way to compensate you for what you did, but that, that's a slap in the face more than anything.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Well, the compensation program is beyond horrendous. It's insulting to these people. It's truly insulting. So these people have lost their jobs, have lost their careers and all that.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And, and really that's the idea of, you know, the prep act immunity. So the prep act in a public health emergency is, uh, basically says everyone that it's involved in the COVID shots or any other countermeasures to stay. I've completely received complete blank and immunity and I wouldn't get that if there's a true public [00:16:00] health emergency But there should be a safety net Okay for those people that get injured in a public health emergency and that's supposed to be the cicp, but it's so Horrible and every time we're out in dc, I talk to independents.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: I talk to democrats. I talk to republicans They all agree the system is broken. The frustrating part of DC is it's a swamp and everyone will agree that it's a horrible broken system, but no one has the courage to actually do anything. And that's why after three years of spending time in DC and begging people to push forward legislation like House Bill 51, 42, and 43, which have to do with updating the VICP, the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, which hasn't been updated for inflation since its onset in 1986.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And the other part of these bills is it transfers our claims to the V. I. C. P. which has some real money involved. But we've gotten nowhere. These [00:17:00] bills have been sitting, you know, in Congress for over a year. So what are we forced to do? Well, we're going to court. You know, I filed a lawsuit, uh, Aaron serious group and informed consent Action Network.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: file a lawsuit on behalf of myself and two other injured people in April of this year in the northern district of Texas against HHS and against the failed CICP claiming that they violated my 5th and 7th amendment rights which have to do with my constitutional rights to a jury trial and in to do process.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So I filed for the CICP back in May of 2021. It took me 18 months to get denied. I then immediately appealed, and it's been now over 20 months with, with no response. So it's that type of a process that we're up against. which has really led us to court and really through the lawsuit that [00:18:00] I'm involved with.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: There's another one that was filed in Louisiana last year is really trying to take down the prep act community so we can take down the blanket immunity that these pharma companies have. The blanket immunity of these health organizations, these providers have, they really don't even have to give us informed consent when you, when you get a COVID shot, you don't never have to do anything.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Just give you the shot. Uh, if we can take that immunity down, I think we'll get somewhere. And my hope is even if we can get the public's acknowledgement of this dire compensation program, perhaps the general public will help put more pressure on the politicians that we ourselves just can't pressure them enough with it.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: That makes sense. Thanks.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You know, one thing that really intrigues me is this immunity. I, I, I truly pray every day that this can be removed because I think once we can break that dam and allow patients to sue their doctor that said to get this, that is still saying to get this even to this day, because there are many out there, [00:19:00] then this will change behavior.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Sure. I, that, that's the whole point, Sam, behind my, the lawsuit that I'm involved with and the lawsuit, several other injured people are involved in, in the state of Louisiana. It's really getting at the point that what we have been put through is unconstitutional. And the basis of what we're going to get to is take down the PrEP Act immunity.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Now, my, my chair at React 19, Brianne Dressen, just last month, her, she was the first American to sue AstraZeneca. So I don't know if you saw that suit that got dropped last month. So AstraZeneca, he received the AstraZeneca shot, uh, I'm sorry, excuse me, shot during the clinical trial here in the United States.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So she got one shot at a horrible adverse event, neurological adversity. They never got her second shot. Now, because she didn't finish the trial, meaning she didn't get her shot, her data was removed from their trial data. [00:20:00] Now, he has heard of the clinical trial, Uh, well, we know several, but again, they're all trying to join on the lawsuit that you filed with because the problem is not huge in the United States, but.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: What's happening now is, is, uh, as her trial or her case is becoming public, more and more people that were clinical trial participants for the AstraZeneca trial are coming out of the woodwork. In fact, Brianne and I were just out in New York City a couple of weeks meeting with some potential donors and we met with another person injured by the trials.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So, what people need to understand is, is the AstraZeneca, if you're involved in a clinical trial, that's contractual law. That's outside of PrEP Act immunity. So, she had a contract with the AstraZeneca trial, which is, which is outside of the PrEP Act immunity. And therefore, she can sue. Now, and, and this has been going on for her over three years.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And do you know what they offered her in settlement prior to it being, going to court? They offered her 1, [00:21:00] 200. Wow. They offered her 1, 200 for medical, for medical bills because she gets IVIG every two weeks. Her medical bills exceed over 300, 000 a year and she's lost her career and so forth. So, but at least, I mean, again, there's some hope because she's able to take them to court.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: But again, the people involved in the critical trials here, like Maddie DeGaray, who was a 12 year old girl that was injured in the Pfizer trial, she can, you know, there's a claim coming against Pfizer. But for the vast majority of us, okay, who received the injection, not through a clinical trial, but during the emergency use authorization, we are completely hosed, unless we can take down the PREPAC community.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And that's one of the things, certainly, in the strategy we're trying to do. We would hope that our politicians would just do the right thing and And enact legislation to help us. But again, I'm certainly understanding now having been to the swamp of D. C. so many times. Uh, they all say the same thing. They all [00:22:00] say they want to help, but no one has the courage actually to step up.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You had mentioned something earlier that I want to go back to. You had said countermeasures. Now, for people that are new to this or maybe haven't heard this term before or understand what countermeasures means, can you go into that as deep as you would like? Because I know you can, that can be a really deep place to go into understanding for this.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Call, uh, the Covid shots vaccine. There were never a vaccine, even according to the US governments and the regulatory agencies, United States, there were never a vaccine. A vaccine is a, that prevents transmissions infection, you know, from a pathogen like a virus. That has gone through the normal regulatory processes of the FDA and CDC, which usually take 5 to 10 years.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: When there was a public health emergency declared, which there was back in 2021, [00:23:00] or maybe it was in 2020 now, I forget. Uh, when there was a public health emergency, basically what that means is all the normal regulatory norms and expectations of new products, you know, go out the window. And basically, pharmaceutical companies in conjunction with the FDA and CDC don't have to follow the normal rules of drug, uh, uh, studying, drug monitoring, drugs, uh, safety, and drug approval.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So they don't have to follow the normal rules. They still themselves didn't call it a vaccine, they called it a coronation. Okay, because it was really done it was created under during a public health emergency and outside normal regulatory norms, and that's why When we seek financial remedy, we don't seek financial remedy through the vaccine injury compensation program We seek it through the countermeasures injury [00:24:00] compensation program, you know, truly, you know, who was really the the The implementer and the distributor of the covid shots.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: It was the military. I mean, that's just a fact So it's outside the total normal regulatory norm and what's really sad is The public health emergency ended last year, but the prep act immunity is still ongoing and now is scheduled to expire december 31st of this year and frankly by a signature of the 2020 The hhs secretary can be extended even beyond that.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So how can you have it both ways? How can you not have no longer a public health emergency that you can still protect? providers health care organizations federal regulatory agencies And pharma companies and give them blanket immunity Even though the PrEP Act immunity instead of public health emergency is over.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: It's, it's illogical, [00:25:00] it's immoral, it's unethical. I mean, I could continue and continue to continue, but for these people that got injured and did what they thought was do the right thing, they're continually hosed, left and right, and still to this day, they're continually hosed.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: One thing that, uh, I want to kind of refer back to one of my episodes, and sir, I don't know if you've ever seen this or heard me talk about it before, but it's episode 33 of this podcast, and this idea of countermeasures, and kind of going down that road, Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna Mihayka, um, she explores this a lot more, and how, yeah, exactly as you said, this was distributed, made, and the entire operation was run by the DOD. And so a countermeasure is something that we use to oppose an attack. And if you look at the Pfizer documents that were published through, uh, they were received through FOIA, through Judicial Watch, and you look at the redaction codes on these, and I go into this in depth on episode 33, one of the redaction codes that's used the most is Bravo 4.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then you go and you [00:26:00] reference that to the U. S. archives, and what does Bravo 4 actually mean? And it means to expose this information would inhibit the application of A state of the art U. S. weapons system. So right there, they're telling you. And I discovered this back in, what, 2022. And I went to the post commander and tried to show him, Sir, you can stop this.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You have UCMJ authority to start a court martial and to get this underway. And he refused to. And, you know, he was so in the system. He said, you know, you're probably right, Siglof. You need to keep fighting for it, but you need to fight on the outside. And so now I've done that, and I want people to understand that if that's true, which I believe it is, then you are more likely injured by
Dr. Joel Wallskog: a weapon rather than by anything else.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Yeah, I'll always say that, you know, the me of five years ago would call the me of today a conspiracy theorist. But everything that I've said and I've heard when I do, when it all becomes [00:27:00] reality, it's no longer conspiracy. Uh, you know, Brianne Dress and I have, you know, been on numerous meetings with Dr.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Peter Merckx, who is the head of biologics. He is responsible. He is responsible for the COVID shots at the FDA. I have, we have recorded him. We have handed off hours and hours of videotape. We have, uh, sent off hundreds of emails from him. Janet Woodcock, uh, you name it, all of the big players. Uh, and I'll tell you some of the stuff we've heard, we've seen in writing, we've handed off to the House, uh, Investigations Committee is alarming.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Uh, I can't believe I live in the United States and, and I've heard what I've heard and I've seen what I've seen. Uh, but it's true. It's true. And, you know, again, I'm, I am one of the most, you know, I come from a very traditional healthcare background. And, you know, if you asked me five years ago, did I ever think some of this stuff that I've now heard and seen is it could be true here in the United States of America, the answer is no way.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Only [00:28:00] crazy conspiracy theorists would think that. Bye. But now after, you know, I've learned more and more and, and, and really firsthand, and these aren't just rumor mills, uh, these are firsthand interactions I've had with people. It's alarming, and it's alarming, it's embarrassing, uh, that I live in the United States, and, and, you know, we, we're up against this kind of, uh, What I call is evil at this point.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: I think there's an overarching evil that we're fighting. It's just not greed. It's just not the search for power. It's true evil. Uh, that's what I think we're fighting.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Can we go into that a bit more? Do you have any sort of religious or spiritual belief, belief
Dr. Joel Wallskog: in a higher power? I do. I do. And you know, I will tell you, uh, in this experience, I've had two transformational moments.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: One of them I already alluded to. Uh, one of them was when I went and we had that press conference with senator rain jensen and i'd left there in very much i called my wife from the uber and said [00:29:00] megan I know what i'm going to do next. Uh, and I know what my mission was because for 2021 I just didn't know what I was gonna do with my life and and I can't my brain still works My body doesn't necessarily work so well, but my brain does Uh, well, at least okay.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: But, um, that being said, the other transformational moment I had was, uh, I was down in Nashville and I was taping for a podcast. I was with R. P. Junior, Senator Ron Johnson, Kenny Maurer, who's an MBA rep that got fired. A bunch of other people, but, um, uh, it was, uh, the blaze, uh, and I forget, uh, I feel embarrassing forgetting, but, uh, Justin, Jason Whitlow.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So anyway, so we, we, we flew in there and I didn't even know who we were, you know, present with the next day. Um, but there was this guy that we met in the lobby. Again, I got in there eight or nine o'clock and this guy was pretty kind of a shabby looking guy at a footy on ripped up jeans. I should have put it together.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: He had some military boots on, but I didn't. We started [00:30:00] talking again. Never had met him before. Never knew who he was. Long story short, he's the next Navy SEAL. And he asked me before I knew who he was, he asked me who our enemy was. And I said, you know, top 10 things. I said, number one through nine is really greed.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And number 10 is probably the search for power and control. And he said, Joel, I disagree with you. And I was like, okay, I can do that. So, you know, let me, you know, what is, what, what is And he really said evil. And he talked to me about his experience in the military. And he said, Joe, I never killed anybody.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Uh, and he said, I killed a lot of people and I always looked him out of the eyes. And he said, I never killed anybody that had any interest. And money, and I never killed anybody that had any interest in power control. All I saw in their eyes was evil. And we've probably talked that night for two or three hours.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And then I couldn't sleep of course, because a lot of the stuff [00:31:00] you started telling me kind of gave me a much bigger perspective of what we're fighting. And for me, it was a very transformational moment. You're getting Steven Kaplan. Uh, he lives out in Hawaii and I still keep in touch with him, but he kind of gave me a very bigger picture of what was fighting.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Very spiritual battle at this point because it, this can't be just as simple as people are just looking to fill their pockets. I, I think they, and it can't be just for, you know, the world in, you know, governor of California just can't be that there to be something bigger. And for me, after meeting Steven and him giving me so much bigger.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: erection. It's been super helpful to me because I really view on a daily basis. I'm fighting evil.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. Our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against rulers and principalities of darkness in the unseen realm. [00:32:00] And I have. Uh, just prior to COVID starting, there was this book, and I encourage every listener here to go pick up this book, read it, or listen to it on audio book, but it's The Unseen Realm by Michael Heiser, and Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Michael Heiser is a biblical scholar, and he talks about how that idea of this unseen realm is woven through the entire Old Testament, but if you don't understand the connotation of the literature. And what it was meant to the people at that time, then you don't see that. And it really removed the scales for my eyes to see during, you know, the BLM riots, these aren't people just doing what they're doing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: There is something much deeper going on that is just hellbent on destruction of humanity. And what better way to strike at God, if you can't strike at God than to strike at his creation and that's people.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Yeah, I agree. And turn people against each other and create chaos. Yeah. And, and [00:33:00] fear again, you know, you create a little bit of fear.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: You look back at the pandemic, how, how many of me, how many of us were so foolish and responded to a little bit of fear by giving up so much of our God given liberty, but we did it very easily. And again, a lot of people didn't, and to those people that stood firm, you know, but I admit, you know, I was part of the system and I trusted that system.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And, you know, as part of the system, my entire life, you know, so. Again, I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. I, in fact, I'm very critical of myself and I don't have any problems in my being critical of me, but look at where we're at and how do we get out of this and how do we prevent the next disease X because there will be, it will be the next disease X and it didn't take that much fear for us to really, you know, for lack of a better term, poop in our pants and give up all this liberty and just say, Oh, that's okay.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: No, I won't ever do that again, but I hope everyone is prepared and has learned enough. And, you know, we've been lied to, you know, we've been told, [00:34:00] okay, safe and effective in such little terms that which mean nothing, but there were lies and people, again, I do think are waking up. I do think it's a tough struggle though, because we're in a situation where, uh, you know, the, our scientific journals, healthcare organizations captured by pharma money, obviously pharma itself is captured by itself and greed.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Their media is certainly captured, you know, who doesn't see that every other commercial you see is pharma Uh, so that's this chaotic world we live in but we have to see there's a bigger struggle that we're up against And again, I do think they you know, the the The evil forces that we're up against are here to take down people, but take down God.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I want to say something that's kind of harkening back to what you said earlier, is that, you know, the people on the left say, oh, it never happened, and the people on the right say, oh, you were, you know, a dumb sheep to get it. [00:35:00] And I want to tell everyone at this very moment that if you participate in that kind of belittling of people who have been harmed, then that is not a spirit from God, that is a spirit from the evil one.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And please remove that as best you can from yourselves and pray that that can be removed from you because you are spreading more hatred and you are not helping anyone. This is the time for those who love God and those who are, let's say, not churched or not Christian or not any religion, come together and treat others as you would like to be treated.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if you were injured, you would not want someone belittling you. I see posts all the time about, oh, look, they got the shot and now they're dead. Ha ha. That is a disgusting
Dr. Joel Wallskog: and horrible thing to do.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: It's evil. It is evil. And I think people need to put down their swords. And, you know, that have returned back to, you know, being empathetic human beings, you know, and, and, and try to, you know, we're all centers for, for [00:36:00] her, but again, trying to be, you know, more like, as we, we all have to stop putting on our swords and start caring for each other.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And I think we'd be in a much better world because for those people that say that, oh, they're. You know, there are anti vaxxers and then like you said, they just rip on people to get the shots or you know Serves you right kind of a thing that that itself is just becoming the evil that we're all trying to fight against And it's it's horrible and you know, we see it all the time.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: I try to avoid social media I'm gonna put stuff out there to communicate But again, I don't read many comments because I got sick of it And I it just it would irritate me, but I never really taken it personally, but you're very fruitful also with And words are hurtful. Um, you know, and I'm, what I would say is I'm a little, I have pretty thick skin.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So people can tell you a lot, but you know, a lot of people that are injured, um, they're already somewhat, what I would say is they're already somewhat marginalized and it doesn't take much to put them off the edge and really drive them [00:37:00] to even a worse place after their injury.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Exactly. Especially with some of the side
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: effects we've been seeing as suicide was a suicidality. Is it? Is it from being marginalized or is it from some other effect of the shot to the brain? We we don't know but let's be part of the solution everyone all of my listeners. I expect you to be part of the Solution not not contributing to the problem spreading more hate and I would suspect that most of my listeners are part of the solution
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Yeah, and that's why we do a react 19.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: I mean, we're not You know, we do tell our sad stories sometimes, uh, you know, but really our goal is that, you know, We say this openly our goal is to take our negative reactions and turn it into positive action We are not an organization that just wants to say up for us for me We want to be part of the solution and that's one of the reasons i'm very active and we're very active as an organization In compensation reform in D.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: C. Do I enjoy going to D. C. and bowing shoulder to shoulder with some politicians? Absolutely not. It's a disgusting swamp. However, [00:38:00] uh, you know, is that an area that we have to go to to try to work towards getting compensation reform? Sure. And now, you know, we're also working on trying to open some satellite clinics and a brick and mortar clinic to treat complex genetic illness to include lung COVID and VAX injury down in Texas.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: We're trying to get a clinic open here this year down there to try to be part of the solution of trying to find these people, you know, care and adequate care. We can get the model down if we can promulgate the model throughout the United States. We want to be part of that solution again, not just find them compensation.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: But to try to find them care and that's why again, we're a proactive advocacy organization We're not again about telling her sad stories. We're about action and that's really what we want to be There's a lot of organizations out there and this kind of medical freedom that kind of are coming and going You know and now that the mandates are over a lot of those organizations are kind of fiddling out But our call to action is stronger than really is stronger than ever Because these people aren't [00:39:00] going away, they're still more injured, and there's still a lot of people that have been injured that just really aren't getting better, and that's what we're going to continue to fight for.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So if someone's injured,
Dr. Joel Wallskog: and they're looking for a doctor, where, where can they look? That's a great question. So, uh, so if you're injured, the number one thing I would tell an injured person, Is to avoid large health organization systems like employed models where the doctor works for a company that has 30, 000 doctors or 10, 000 doctors because those doctors treat based off what they're told to treat.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: They're told how to diagnose a problem. They're told what to look for and they're told how you can treat a given condition. Also university systems at this point in the United States are very poor places to go. Because their doctors also, they're kind of an employed model. They, the doctors there really tend to not have any idea of the syndromes that we have, nor do they [00:40:00] have any idea of available diagnostics and treatments.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So the first thing I would tell an injured person is to try to seek out an independent provider. One that is still a scientist, that can practice how they, the art of medicine, which is, Which is the art of medicine. As you know, Sam, there's a lot more than just looking in a textbook, it's putting hands on people, listening to them, you know, trying to put things together, knowing that some of these syndromes of the COVID shot injuries are novel and you got to keep an open mind.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Now, the other thing is, is, you know, I welcome any of your listeners to look at our website, www. react19. org. Uh, we have provider networks out there, uh, we have an advocacy network. Our advocacy network is a team of nurses and social workers across the country that can be assigned to the more marginalized injured person and that can help get them through the providers that we know won't gaslight them and at least have some [00:41:00] idea of available diagnostics and treatments.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So that would be my recommendation, that you utilize our, our resources that we have through our reacting team. But also seek out independent providers that still are scientists on their own, still look at data on their own. It's not too hard to look at even CDC data and know that there's alarming rise in certain tumors.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Okay. Yet, if you go C. D. C. Data, I don't make this up. I mean, again, the C. D. C. Data is there. But if you go to, uh, say, like a place in a university health care system and you say, Hey, is there a rise in cancers after the covid shots? They're gonna look at you like you're nuts. So again, you just have to find the right provider, which is difficult.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And that's why we're trying to also work at the same point. To create our own clinic for a collaboration with providers We trust And we're trying to get this clinic open with some satellites and if we can get treatment protocols down Then we want to try and promulgate those [00:42:00] protocols that we know are working to other like minded Providers that just need more information need the protocols and I we think we can help people exponentially more through that kind of uh But that through the idea of having clinics and satellites and really promulgate those those working treatment protocols throughout the country.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: If we wait for the current health care systems to help us, we'll all be dead. We'll all be dead.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I would say to, to further back your point is the doctors that are listed on your website, they actually talk to them. I received a phone call before they would list my name there and we had a long discussion.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It was a very pleasant discussion and I was very impressed that they took the time to actually reach out to me and, and see, you know, am I a doctor that, that believes the way that y'all believe at react 19 or am I just some Yahoo who's trying to get my name in another [00:43:00] place? Thanks. And, you know, we talked for a while and they discovered who I was and what I was doing and they happily put my name on your website.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Yeah, so we vet every person individually. So and that's different than a lot of other organizations. So a lot of other organizations i'm not going to bring up names, but we'll just you know If you say hey, I want to be associated with your organization. You just put you on the website and that's not who we are um, and that's not who we are because These people that we represent have already been as we talked about was double traumatized once for the injury and once have they been treated By everybody and and i'd rather have one one hundredth of the number of providers on there You Then some other organizations, but confident that the providers that we have out there may at least will not gaslight this population and at least have a desire and a willingness to open their minds to available diagnostic and treatments.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So, yeah, that's what you got a phone call. Probably was from Jeff Jones, who is, [00:44:00] uh, my 1 of my infectious disease instructors went out of the medical school a couple of years ago, but. Yeah, I used to do the, the actually vetting myself and people were kind of surprised that we wouldn't just throw them on our website.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: But and and honestly with to be honest with you, we don't put everybody that's interested in the website There there's evil even on our side There's there's people on our side that uh are big and what I call is pontification I'd like to hear them speak at meetings and there's also people on our side that are involved in monetization you know who doesn't know who somebody who's writing a book or Or gets on the speaking circuit and likes to get their name out there and is tied to a nutraceutical company You Uh, so, uh, I always say, even on our side, there's evil, and, and there's, and that evil usually falls in the, in, provider wise, in the area of pontification and monetization of the injured.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And, and we're very careful. You can smell that out, uh, a million miles away.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: It's nice to have such a [00:45:00] trusted resource that,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: that takes the time. To do that extra step, because I think that's one of the problems with, with the world today, with all the social media, with all the cell phones and the quote, connectiveness, we have become less connected. And I think building those relationship is not, that's the foundation of medicine is having a relationship with your clinician and with the patient.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And that's why sometimes, you know, as an organization, React 19 isn't the. We're not the uh, we're not the firecrackers screaming at the top of our lungs, screaming murderers and all this other stuff. We're, we're more cool, calm and collected, but as more kind of organizations have kind of come and gone and been more of the polarizing variety, it's, it's kind of interesting that we're still here.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: You know, we're, we're still here saying the same things, representing the same people. Uh, but what I see is we're cool, calm and collected. And again, that's my hope. My hope is through a [00:46:00] strategy of being Of having a full common collected attitude or strategy will allow us to really open the eyes of what I call is the moldable middle.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Okay. So there's tons, you know, like there's our side, which I can say, I'm confident we know the truth, right? We know the truth of what's happened the last three years. We've seen it. We know what evil is. We know what good is. And there's the opposite side who you can show them that something black, they'll say it's white.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: You can show them it's white, they're going to black. I've given up on that. Those are people that just deny reality and deny science, frankly, that it's always funny. They say, follow the science, and that's exactly what I, what I do and what we do at REC 18. But the reality is, is I think the majority of the public just doesn't know what happened the last three years, doesn't know about these shot injuries, doesn't know what these people have been through.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And if they did, they would put, you know, they would speak up. They would put their money where their mouth is. They would reach out to their politicians. They would put more pressure on their [00:47:00] politicians to enact legislation. That's really what we're trying to go for is really the those people that are good people out there That just don't know the truth
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: exactly and the way we change Legislature is we first change the culture and it seems like you're doing a very good job of that
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Yeah, we're trying to I mean sometimes, you know our side likes when we scream and yell at people and go to you know Go to conferences and swear and all that but I really um, that's polarizing itself And I think that turns off a lot of people in the shin public And that's why again, I'm sitting here talking to you.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: I've never gotten riled up. I mean, I feel very, very strong about what I do and why we do it here at RAC 19. Uh, but we're trying to do it for the right reasons. And I always say, you know, just like I did to, you know, I said to my kids when they were little, always do the right thing for the right reasons.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: You know, if you live by that motto, I think this would be a better world. And that's what we're going to continue to do. And I'm going to continue, as well as all of us at [00:48:00] Reactive 18, are going to continue to do this until, you know, again, we get these people adequate breast augmentation, and we get them adequate medical care.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: But we're not just going to sit back. People won't listen. Uh, it may just continue to blow us off, which certainly they try to do repeatedly, but we'll see in court.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Joel, Dr. Walsog, thank you so much. Where can we, where can we find your website?
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Please, uh, yeah, all of your listeners, please take a look at our website.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: It's www. react19. org. Uh, please take a look at our website. If any of your listeners are, or have, uh, some sort of inability to donate, there's a donate button. Thank you. Uh, we also, uh, now accept even cryptocurrency. We accept, uh, donor, uh, assisted funds. We, we accept stocks. We accept anything. It's a, it's a very difficult area to, to really, uh, to fundraise in.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: I'll tell you, it's a certainly struggle. We [00:49:00] have zero corporate sponsorship. Uh, our average, uh, donor is about 80, but again, any dollar helps. We are an all volunteer organization too. So just so your listeners know, I mean, none of us take a dollar from this organization. Uh, you know, despite, you know, several of the people in the organization being, you know, obviously have lost their careers and so forth.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So, you know, none of us take a dollar from the organization.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. That's, it's not often you hear of a charity or an organization of this nature taking nothing for themselves.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: We take nothing. You know, we just completed our last audit of our, you know, we had flying colors and You know, obviously, because our overhead is extraordinarily low, obviously we have the operating expenses and computers and website and all that, but again, we take zero salaries.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: So again, the vast majority of our funds go directly to the injured in the form of a care fund. We've given out well over 800, 000 now. In comparison to the 44, [00:50:00] 000 of the CICP, but we've given out well over 800, 000 to injured Americans, specifically for uncovered medical expenses. These are people that are in the worst of the worst financial, you know, situations.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: I'll just give you the last one that I can remember we approved was. A gentleman that, uh, had blood clotting problems and had a May Turner type syndrome where a compression of one of his iliac veins and, and literally needed 10, 000 to get a, uh, uh, vein study and a stent put in his leg. And again, wasn't covered by his insurance.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: And we literally flipped the bill for his entire procedure. And I think he's getting it next week or the week after. So, uh, every dollar that's donated, you know, to the care fund, every dollar goes directly. Uh, to begin group in the form of, uh, these medical grants for uncovered medical spaces.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's wonderful.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Dr. Walsalk, thank you so much. And God bless you in your, in your fight and your struggle. And, and may you keep doing this [00:51:00] until you get the change that you're looking for.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Well, thank you. And we will, you know, what I always say is, you know, we don't lose, we won't lose.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: God bless you.
Dr. Joel Wallskog: Thank you. God bless you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, the duty uniform of the day. The full armor of God. Let's all make courage more contagious than fear.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch. Which [00:52:00] always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones. Never been given antibiotics. Never been given anything. mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow that gives birth to the calf.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare it to What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it. It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Check out MyCleanbeef.com/afterhours. That's mycleanbeef.com/afterhours, mycleanbeef.com/afterhours.
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132. ret COL Tom Rempfer Explains Anthrax
Today I talk with ret. COL Tom Rempfer. He explains what happened in the military with anthrax. He shows the similarities between anthrax and covid.
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132. ret COL Tom Rempfer Explains Anthrax
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ret COL Tom Rempfer: [00:00:00] All said and done, he said, if you don't take the vaccine, one word comes to mind. Traitor. So that was the environment we dealt with 25 years ago.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice. been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given MRNA vaccines.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you. And if we compare, What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great [00:01:00] price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out MyCleanbeef.com/afterhours. That's my cleanbeef.com/afterhours, mycleanbeef.com/afterhours.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed I've been wearing this t shirt for a few episodes now, I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. [00:02:00] Sigoloff
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: all right, first I want to thank my Patreon subscribers. We have too tough at the 30 level and we have An anonymous family donor giving 20. 20 a month. There is the Plandemic Reprimando tier at 17. 76 a month with Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr. Anna, Frank, Brian, Chell, and more.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Gary. We have Kevin and Patton Bev giving 10 a month. The Refined Not Burned tier at 5 a month with Linda, Emi, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. We have Addison Mulder giving 3 a month and Frank giving 1. 50. And then we have the Contagious, I'm sorry, then we have the Courageous Contagious tier at 1 a month with Jay Spessnasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, Caleb, and Sharon.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I want to thank everybody so much for supporting this Patreon channel, [00:03:00] it, that money has been helpful in, in funding, uh, a lot of the, uh, operating costs of getting this going. I also want to encourage everyone to check out mycleanbeef. com slash after hours. That's mycleanbeef. com slash after hours. It's some of the best grass fed, grass finished beef that I've ever had in my life.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Uh, and technically it's better than grass fed, grass finished. My next guest is Colonel Tom Rimfer. Now Colonel Rimfer is, is not new to this whole COVID fight. He was fighting this same idea before it was COVID when they first did the same battle plan against the U. S. service members. Tom, great to have you on.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much for being here.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Thank you, doctor. I appreciate it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Please call me Sam.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Okay, Sam.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So now you have a book that's coming out that, that's, tell us about that book.[00:04:00]
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Sure. Um, thanks, Sam. Uh, the book is, uh, kind of a passion, uh, that's been going on for 25 years. Um, I've got a copy of it here. The publisher sent me some copies, so I'm going to just put that up. Um, the book is called Unyielding and it basically documents a 25 plus year, uh, marathon, uh, in order to, uh, try to challenge, uh, what were and are, uh, illegal mandates for unapproved medical products.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Um, up at the top of the book, uh, there is a, uh, a gracious quote by, Rfk jr. That was in his book. Um, uh, the wuhan covera and the forward for the book was done by dr Philip zimbardo, who was one of my instructors at the naval postgraduate school And dr. Zimbardo talked, [00:05:00] uh about has has taught about psychological forces social forces group forces situational ethical forces and how people with uh You astounding regularity, um, buckle to those forces and go along with higher authority, even though higher authority in the case of both the anthrax vaccine mandate and the COVID shot mandates, those were patently illegal mandates.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And unfortunately the entire society, media, uh, the courts, the legislature initially went along with it. Um, there's also a, a picture of an airplane, a cartoon. And I wanted to just give a little bit of an explanation about the illustration. It was done by the same illustrator that did another, uh, cartoon, uh, 25 years ago, uh, when we first encountered the anthrax vaccine dilemma.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Uh, the anthrax vaccine, uh, cartoon depicted, uh, Um, uh, two pilots flying in an airplane with [00:06:00] a syringe chasing after it. Um, and, uh, the pilots had a caption saying, you know, the Pentagon says it's, uh, safe, and the other pilot says, really, prepare to eject. So that cartoon was kind of defensive in nature, and although I thought it was, uh, catchy, um, I, I tracked down the same cartoonist, illustrator, and, uh, And I said, Hey, this is what I'm writing.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: I'm trying to capture these lessons learned from, uh, two illegal, um, uh, immunization mandates, um, over the course of 25 years, that actually both involved lab leaks, uh, two lab leaks, um, 25 years apart, uh, in order to either, um, save the first vaccine program, the anthrax vaccine program, Or to push the COVID, um, uh, injection mandates.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Uh, they were both lab leaks. And so, um, needless to say, he, he put together this, um, illustration, which is on the cover [00:07:00] and it is more offensive in nature rather than having two pilots, uh, running away from a syringe, um, the pilot in this A 10 like, uh, cartoon airplane, Is going after, uh, the injection. Um, and, and that basically illustrated our fight rather than running away, uh, rather than getting out of the military, um, rather than, uh, bending to the, the fear and the bullying, um, and literally accusations of us being, uh, traitors.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: If we didn't accept the, um, the immunization, uh, 25 years ago, our commander referred to us as traitors. It's on my website. Unyielding. org. Um, there's several video clips there and the video clips, um, specifically came from a FOIAed videotape. So they were released publicly and that videotape shows the commander acknowledging that our questions haven't been answered, that he needed to [00:08:00] give us more answers, that there were, um, efficacy limitations for the vaccine and that the data that we were requesting, um, did not exist.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And, uh, you know, All said and done, he said, if you, if you don't take the, um, the vaccine, one word comes to mind, traitor. So that was the environment we dealt with 25 years ago. And we were forced out of our A 10, uh, flying positions. Uh, we were, uh, A 10 fighter pilots. I'd previously been, uh, Very grateful that my nation, our taxpayers, my country, my Air Force, um, trained me up in F 16s and F 117s and A 10s.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Um, I was proud to serve. I always volunteered to deploy to serve. Um, and instead of answering our legitimate questions about the vaccine program, we were essentially framed as being traitors for Uh, not accepting what we knew was an investigational, experimental, unlicensed, um, uh, [00:09:00] drug product by the Food and Drug Administration.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And uh, a little bit more on the background, we only became involved in this because our commander actually formed a team, uh, myself and, uh, my late colleague, uh, Lieutenant Colonel Russ Dingell, uh, who I basically, uh, you know, create a tribute to in the book because he was the intellectual. Um, founder of all of the, uh, arguments about the illegality of the vaccine program.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And we brought those concerns to the chain of command. We were officially tasked to bring those concerns to the chain of command. And the concerns that we highlighted were not only that the vaccine was investigational and in direct violation of a law, um, under title 10 of the U. S. code section 1107, that said soldiers could not be mandated to be vaccinated.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: To take investigational drug products. They had to be given their prior right of informed consent. We provided, uh, information to the chain of command that showed that the, uh, vaccine program suffered significant malfunctions, [00:10:00] um, as, as much as over 10 years earlier. The Department of Defense had acknowledged through requests for proposal that they needed a new vaccine, one that worked properly and didn't have high adverse reaction rates.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: They put out that request for proposal to get a new vaccine. Simultaneously in 1985, they published in the Federal Register a proposed rule for the vaccine license, which they never finalized. So that's another reason why, in addition to being investigational, it was fundamentally a unapproved drug product by the Food and Drug Administration.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And that caught up with the department of defense and the food and drug administration. Um, many years later in our lawsuit, um, against the vaccine program, the federal court declared that the vaccine was investigational and that the mandate was patently illegal. And the judge actually referred to, um, the department of defense treating its soldiers as guinea pigs.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And it disallowed it. It enjoined the program. Um, served the Department of Defense and the Food and Drug Administration with an injunction and they [00:11:00] stopped the program. Um, but other things that we had presented to the chain of command, um, at that time and in the years that followed included, um, that the Food and Drug Administration had actually cited the manufacturer with significant violations of current good manufacturing practices.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Um, there were FDA, uh, inspection forms that showed that the vaccine manufacturing product. process was not validated. And so they were trying to mandate on two plus million soldiers, a vaccine that came from a plant that had been, had lost its FDA validation, had for all practical purposes been shut down due to these FDA inspections.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And they'd actually received a notice of intent to revoke their license. Yet the department of defense went forward with this program. Anyway, called us traitors for not wanting to go along with the patently illegal conduct, forced us out of our jobs. Now, I was very fortunate. I was able to stay in the military.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: I dodged and weaved and jinked, as we call it, [00:12:00] in, in fighter type aircraft. I outmaneuvered them and I stayed in the military and they never came after me, which I'm grateful for. But that says something about the propriety of the military mandate. They knew that what we'd highlighted was a patently illegal order and they didn't want to highlight it.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: But simultaneously they kicked out over a thousand service members out of the armed forces. And ever since I've been trying to get those records corrected. And thanks to the previous administration, we were actually successful in getting some records corrected, but they make these kids, these young people, not kids anymore.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: They make them apply individually, even though it was the Department of Defense that egregiously violated the law. And let's fast forward now 20 years, and one of the reasons why I finally wrote the book on yielding was the patterns that we encountered 25 years ago All resurfaced with the COVID injection mandates, the department of defense, once again, ended up implementing a [00:13:00] patently illegal order.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Now, initially I try to be gracious and I say that I was proud of the department of defense up until the summer of 2021 when they were voluntarily administering the COVID injections to the troops because they knew perfectly well they were emergency use authorized. Emergency use authorized products.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Can only be given on a voluntary basis. Troops have to have their prior consent rights. The civilian parallel law says they have to be given their option to accept or refuse. So this applies to all troops and all citizens. And not only did the military, but also the government made a massive overreach with the COVID vaccine mandates.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: They learned no lessons from the anthrax vaccine, uh, experience. And they ended up mandating them on the majority of American citizens through a variety of mandates, most of which were actually declared illegal by the federal courts. And the military mandate ended up being shut down by [00:14:00] legislative action.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: The Congress shut that mandate down unprecedented, just like the judiciary shut down the anthrax vaccine program. Unprecedented yet the military and the government appears to have learned no lessons from this and they punished thousands with anthrax vaccine and they punished tens of thousands with COVID vaccines.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: It's wrong. It's un American and. They basically used lab leaks in order to scare people into compliance. For instance, let's wind back over 20 years. The anthrax vaccine program was on the verge of cancellation by the new, um, Bush administration. Uh, I had been working, uh, thanks to the efforts of H Ross Perot, who sent me to a great deal of meetings along with my, uh, late colleague, Russ Dingle, who, by the way, um, all profits from the book go to Russ Dingle's family.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Um, We went to a variety of meetings set up by H. Ross Perot in Washington, D. C. and at the [00:15:00] Pentagon, and he connected us with, uh, Karl Rove at the White House. Karl Rove called us, asked for our research materials, guaranteed us that the program was going to be investigated by the Department of Defense, gave us the information, um, about the review.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Uh, we discovered that they recommended, uh, at the Secretary of Defense level, they recommended the cancellation of the anthrax vaccine program, minimize the vaccine's use, and determine a doctrinally coherent manner to deal with these threats in the future, which was also the premise of our congressional testimony several years earlier.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And so they were going to cancel the program in August of 2001. One month later, 9 11 happens, and one week after 9 11, anthrax letters go in the mail. Somebody put anthrax letters in the mail to capitalize on the fear of 9 11 and to try to scare the American people and try to get the anthrax manufacturer back up and running.[00:16:00]
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And it was successful. The anthrax vaccine was actually accelerated. They gave an accelerated approval to the manufacturing process, even though we had identified that they were adulterating the vaccine. illegal manufacturing, uh, processes that had gone into effect in the preceding years. Those were all verified by government accountability office, uh, reports.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Um, and they ended up starting up the anthrax vaccine again based on that fear bomb of the anthrax letters. And it's, uh, it's, it's important to note that it took the federal bureau of investigation in the department of justice over 10 years to put out findings and what they called the Amerithrax report that Amerithrax report said that the motive for the anthrax letter attacks, the fear bomb, the bio incident.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: The lab leak that came from Fort Detrick, anthrax spores from Fort Detrick in those letters, that lab leak was the motive for the anthrax letter attacks. According to the FBI, I [00:17:00] suspected it from the very beginning. I gave tips to the FBI from the very beginning on that, but they waited 10 years to call it for what it is.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: It was a bio incident and a lab leak, and the motive was to save the failing anthrax vaccine. program to rejuvenate it. And they were successful. The FBI report says, says that, that it was successful beyond, um, the perpetrator's, you know, wildest imaginations. Uh, and the, the alleged perpetrator actually was given awards by the Department of Defense for helping to get the anthrax vaccine program back up and running after the anthrax letter attacks.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: It's astounding. And the American people, for the most part, don't know any of this history. They don't know the history because the FBI waited 10 years. They They don't know any of the history because the Congress never went back and, and made sure that they corrected the records for the troops that had been illegally experimented on.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: One of the people in Congress, Senator Tom Daschle, was actually attacked with anthrax letter, [00:18:00] and he was one of our primary, uh, Um, uh, representatives, uh, elected representatives that we had briefed his staff, and he had written a letter to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and he questioned the punishments meted out.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: But after the anthrax letter, the Congress dropped all oversight. They never went back and fixed those records for the troops. That should happen. So I've tried to put together Unyielding to tell the American people this history, that unfortunately our government and our military, uh, Um, is, uh, reticent to explain to people, it's all true.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: I laid it out in unyielding to try to not only get the records corrected for the troops from, uh, over 20 years ago, but also the 10, 000 plus troops that were punished with respect to COVID vaccines, even though the Congress had put forth intent in legislation in order to make sure that troops who refused COVID vaccinations got honorable discharge, discharges.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: They basically [00:19:00] pulled a fast one and they were able to give them general discharges under honorable conditions, but that barred these folks from getting their earned educational benefits. It all needs to be erased. They should invite everyone back in because it was the department of defense that violated the law and most explicitly violated the secretary of defense's directive.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: It's on my website. I've put it on my, uh, my Twitter or X account, Remfer underscore Thomas. The department of defense directive by the secretary of defense specifically said for COVID injections that they would only give FDA approved product to the troops, but you and I both know that never occurred throughout the entirety of the mandate deadlines, they only had emergency use authorized medical products.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: unapproved medical products for the troops. The troops had to be given their prior consent rights. [00:20:00] They could not mandate it. That is what paragraph five of the secretary of defense directive, which is still on the department of defense website says. They expressly violated that Secretary of Defense directive.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: The troops did nothing wrong. The troops simply exercised their legal and set death directive prior consent rights. And, and finally, I just want to explain that that whole emergency use authorization, um, uh, ability for the Food and Drug Administration, the government, the military to offer, uh, people the option to accept or refuse emergency use authorized products It came from the aftermath, the disaster of the anthrax vaccine program.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: After the federal courts declared the anthrax vaccine program illegal, the Food and Drug Administration provided a notice in the Federal Register and got approval from the court to offer emergency use authorized products on a strictly voluntary basis. [00:21:00] Nope. No punishment, no penalty, no loss of entitlements, no loss of benefits.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: That is not only what the law says under Title 10 Section 1107A and Title 21 Section, um, uh, 360 BBB 3, but that's also what it says in the Federal Register, also on my website, unyielding. org. It specifically says it had to be optional. That is the precedent, and that was the law, and the government blatantly violated that law with COVID mandates on our troops and on all civilians.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: So with that, again, I just want to say that this is all a tribute to my dear late colleague, Russ Dingell, who was the intellectual heavyweight with the anthrax vaccine, uh, fiasco, uh, illegality arguments. And, uh, the book is a tribute to him. And the book is a history lesson for the American people so they can understand that they didn't just do this once, they did it twice.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And [00:22:00] this follows many previous medical, uh, disasters with the military that has harmed military medical trust. And now that same lack of trust has translated out to the civilian community and to America as a whole. on the whole. And, you know, with that, Sam, I just kind of appreciate the gracious opportunity to give an introduction.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Uh, I want to answer your questions.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. Um, thank you so much for coming on and for, for sharing. Um, yeah, it, when you were explaining, uh, what happened and how it happened, it's, it's almost like I was watching what did happen in my generation. You know, it's the same exact playbook. It's, it was like, it's a shark pump.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: For your generation to, to get it right for my generation. It's, it's absolutely astounding how it's the exact same thing. It was already declared to be illegal, and yet they just did it again and didn't care. It,
ret COL Tom Rempfer: it's mind blowing.[00:23:00]
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Yeah, exactly. Um, same playbook. Um, the harassment, the bullying, the coercion, the allegations of internet misinformation, malinformation, disinformation. With these dilemmas, the only entities that are actually responsible for misinformation, malinformation, and, and, uh, disinformation, We're the government and the military.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And so I've been at this for 25 years, trying to get it corrected. And unfortunately the government's pulled all of the, all of the same tricks. Matter of fact, Dr. Fauci was involved 25 years ago. His ascension within NIH and NIAID basically began after the anthrax letter attacks. They get got massive allocations because everybody was scared.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Congress gave them. Billions and billions of dollars to buy more anthrax vaccine, uh, even though it was, it was technically an unapproved medical product. And so what's interesting about that is even Dr. Fauci admitted publicly that the, uh, [00:24:00] anthrax vaccine could be countered. The primary way to counter it was with simple antibiotics.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: So early treatment, very similar to COVID. They knew perfectly well that early treatments. Were effective, um, to treat the, um, the illnesses, but just like with anthrax vaccine, they went ahead and bought all kinds of vaccine anyway and push the vaccine. So that pattern also applies to both dilemmas. Dr.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Fauci knew that anthrax, uh, illnesses could be fully combated with simple antibiotics, but they wasted billions and billions over many years on this vaccine that was constantly expiring, never used, nobody was attacked with anthrax other than Dr. Fauci. From the lab leak from the army facility, supposedly by the army scientists responsible for the anthrax vaccine, potency testing, and program at Fort Dietrich, an inside job, a bio incident, a lab leak to push a program [00:25:00] that.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: It took 10 years for them to give this truth to the American people. And so it's, it's the patterns I try to lay out the patterns. It's a significant theme of the book for people to understand the patterns of the two dilemmas.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: One thing you had mentioned is, and I don't know if you ever had the opportunity to, to look at these documents, um, but when the.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The order came out that the troops had to take this, um, FDA approved vaccine, uh, when there was this, this 24 hour period where there may or may not have been an actually, uh, Pfizer approved vaccine, um, but within that 24 hours, that approval was gone. The actual Order that came out the printed order when you read through it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it took me about two years of reading through it before I actually really realized the words that I was reading, I thought it said that there, that the troop, the commanders will ensure that there are FDA approved vaccines available, but what the words actually said on [00:26:00] the piece of paper that had been poured through by lawyers prior to its release, it said, the commanders will ensure that there is DOD approved vaccine available.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: So, so Sam, you know, you are a operational practitioner in medicine. I am an operational practitioner with airplanes. I know perfectly well that an entity that has no regulatory authority over the operation of my airplane has no business with me. Making any kind of decisions related to my airplane.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: The same goes for you in the practice of medicine. And the same goes for the food and drug administration and regulatory type decisions. The department of defense had zero authority under the law to say something was approved. Only the FDA had that authority. And even though the FDA tried to smoke, uh, everybody with the idea that there was something that was interchangeable.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: The FDA did not say it was interchangeable. It was not interchangeable. [00:27:00] And they tried to confuse everybody with a confusing concept, which you were very familiar with that the practice of medicine in the practice of medicine, a doctor can offer something on a voluntary basis as interchangeable. Uh, the FDA says nothing's interchangeable with the COVID injections that is FDA approved versus the EUA product.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And the department of defense had no legal authority to. Uh, assert that product was FDA approved. Everything, uh, that military members were given or offered said emergency use authorized on it. And therefore, under the law, they had to have their informed consent. There's an interesting little sub provision within the Code of Federal Regulations 21 CFR.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: One zero point eight five. And it actually says that, you know, anything that somebody wants an opinion on has to go through a federal rulemaking process. And so if you want to get an advisory opinion, opinion that says something's interchangeable and have the FDA [00:28:00] support that, You have to make it a part of the legal process.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: The legal process is federal rulemaking. You can't put out a personal opinion like the Department of Defense did on interchangeability, uh, or their assertion that something is approved and say that it carries the weight of law or any kind of regulatory authority because it doesn't. Um, and, and that's actually very similar with the Department of Justice memo that came out that basically green lighted mandates.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Absolutely in violation of the law and an absolute misinterpretation of the law and of the code of federal regulations that related to human protection. The idea that there could be consequences for, uh, some kind of an emergency use product is true, but they were medical in nature only, and that is supported by FDA documents going back to 2007.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: There were only medical consequences for people. declining to be involved in taking emergency use [00:29:00] authorized products. Nowhere in the law, the intent from Congress, the Code of Federal Regulations, nowhere were adverse consequences or quote unquote secondary consequences which were invented by the Department of Justice Who also has no regulatory authority to be saying what is approved and what is not approved, and, and, and that mandates are approved.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: They have no authority to, to say that or, um, assert that. Uh, once again, it was a personal opinion by a singular Department of Justice official who misinterpreted the context or intent of consequences, which were supposed to be only I'm hopeful that just like the Ninth Circuit has, has done recently, that the courts will finally do their job, provide that oversight, and make sure that the clear intent of the law or any kind of applicability of past Supreme Court precedents about, uh, mandates, [00:30:00] um, are, are finally, uh, given proper judicial review.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, another interesting subject of this whole thing is Are these vaccines or are these countermeasures and if they're countermeasures, then what is a countermeasure? I mean you flew on planes and you had countermeasures on planes. What is a countermeasure in your opinion?
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Yeah, so my counter measure on my airplane Chaff and flares in order to hopefully immunize my airplane from soaking up a, uh, heat seeking or a radar missile.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And you know what? They work. They do, if I'm employing them, immunize me from, uh, being hit by a missile. But guess what? We all know that these, uh, injections did not immunize anyone against, uh, uh, the COVID, the SARS CoV 2 infection. And that's what's so pivotal about the, uh, Ninth Circuit Court ruling, whether it's [00:31:00] transmission or infection, they basically said that the Jacobson Supreme Court ruling does not apply.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: You can't just say you can mandate anything you want because Clearly, these were medical treatments. They were countermeasures that did not immunize, uh, subjects against the disease. Instead, it was simply a medical treatment, and medical treatments under the 14th Amendment require informed consent.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, and to further that idea is of the countermeasure.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If the listener goes back and watches the episode or listens to the episode 33 that I prepared in the past, and in there, I make the claim that on, I think it was 17 March of 2020, we entered into a war. Because to be able to have emergency use authorization, you must first have the American population on US soil or foreign soil, or the military under a biologic chemical or nuclear nuclear attack.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so [00:32:00] those are all Weapons used against either Americans on American soil, Americans on foreign soil, or against the American military. And that must be met before you can have emergency use authorization used. So for them to, to make that declaration of this is going to be under emergency use authorization, I make the claim that you must first be at war, and then that's where the countermeasures for this war come into place.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then to further that point, I make the claim that if you look at the Pfizer documents, and you look at the Bravo 4 redaction code, That's used quite often in there, and then you look at the, um, uh, was it the United States archives, and you look at what Bravo 4 means, and you read through that, and it says to release the information covered up here would inhibit The application of a state of the art U.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: S. weapons system. Now, to my understanding, Pfizer is not in the business of making state of the art U. S. weapons systems. [00:33:00] Why would that redaction code show up on their documents released through FOIA?
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Yeah, that's new information for me, but I will comment on the idea of the public health emergency. And, Uh, some of the, the specificity as far as the requirements, um, uh, you know, I'm not as familiar with that.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Instead, I just tracked the idea that they had public health emergencies, both for anthrax as early as 2005, um, and also for Covid. And they, they went ahead and reissued those public health emergencies on multiple occasions, a, as they did reissue the emergency use authorization for the Covid vaccine, knowing perfectly that actual.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: FDA approved COVID vaccines made under the regulatory standard for an FDA approved product were never made available for the American people. So, um, this comes down to the credibility, not only of the public health apparatus, but also our government regulatory officials. So in the book, I [00:34:00] actually, um, Uh, a, uh, a link for public health emergency for anthrax vaccine that has now been continued out to 2027.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Okay. So think about that. Anthrax has never been used as a, uh, biological threat against the American people by anything other than an army insider. From a lab leak, a bio incident, uh, an inside job, right? And they have a public health declaration that has been made and it's been extended all the way out to 2027 when no U.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: S. soldiers ever encountered anthrax on the battlefield or had to be protected from it. And even if they did need to be protected from it, simple antibiotics provided to our soldiers will save their lives. probably better than, according to our public health officials, according to Dr. Fauci, better than the the vaccine ever could.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And so [00:35:00] you've got to ask yourself the question about whether it's the actual requirements for making public health declarations, public health emergency declarations, but also the idea that they are Um, egregiously violating the trust of the American people by making public health declarations all the way from 2005, although all the way out to 2027 for a threat anthrax that has never actually occurred by anything other than an inside job, from a lab leak, a bio incident by an in insider.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Um, so it's, it's outrageous and the reason why they do it is to give, um, their manufacturer buddies. product liability protection and all covered entities. They're giving themselves product liability protection and program liability protection by putting out these products, these unapproved medical products via public health emergencies.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: This isn't for the [00:36:00] American people, it's for them. They have violated the trust of the American people and they need to be held accountable.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What else do you want to tell us about your, um, about this particular fight? And, and, well, let's, let's say how you've helped guide the younger generation in this COVID fight.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Yeah. You know, I've, I have been so impressed by the quality of the service members that have, uh, stood up for their oath. Um, adhered to their oath of office, adhered to their code of conduct, not to harm their fellows, uh, adhered to their honor codes to make sure that they, um, are honest and, uh, adhered to all of their core values of excellence.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Uh, there's an impressive, very impressive. cadre of soldiers that did refuse. And the Department of Defense has lost, uh, incredible quality, um, people that, uh, that basically [00:37:00] just did their job. They did their job according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice that basically says that they have to refuse patently illegal orders, which the COVID injection mandates were and the anthrax, uh, vaccine mandates were.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Patently illegal orders. So they adhered to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and that is upheld by the Manual of Court Martial that specifically says that an inference of legality does not apply to a patently illegal order. So, uh, when we talk about the troops in the, in the two different scenarios or fiascos, 25 years ago, there were about a thousand that need to have their record corrected, but in the future, they need to correct at least 10, 000 records for the troops that were wrongfully discharged and given general, um, under honorable condition discharges.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: And they also need to make sure that they, Um, do their job, restore the trust for the troops in making sure that they, um, protect the careers for those [00:38:00] people that still are in the military. There were up to a hundred thousand people that had not submitted to the mandate that once the Congress in it, in the unprecedented maneuver canceled the, um, COVID, uh, injection mandates, there are.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Almost 100, 000 people that had not complied and there was all kinds of probably professional discrimination that was going on, uh, and against, uh, that group of people. So not only should they invite everybody in and correct the records and restore careers, if those people, uh, want to, but they need to make sure that they protect the people that are still in, um, from being retaliated and reprised against in the future.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Um, I've mentioned it a couple times, um, in, in past interviews, uh, that one of my dear old friends is now the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and he put out, uh, a memo, uh, All about trust being the foundation. And I agree with that. And I think the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of defense, um, either now or in the [00:39:00] future, in addition to the commander in chief need to make sure that they put forth directives, presidential proclamations, presidential executive orders.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Whatever it takes, they need to fix this real time. It's already been three or four years and over two decades with anthrax vaccine, but no different than President Clinton and President Bush fixed, uh, um, uh, bad medical history issues with respect to, um, uh, nuclear testing in Agent Orange. The, uh, Current president or the next president needs to fix this and restore that trust that our Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has, um, rightly said, is the foundation of our armed forces.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Expressing humility, having the courage to do the right thing is the only way to move forward. If they do it, this controversy will end fairly quickly. If they don't do it, it's going to go on for another two, three, Two or three decades until some president [00:40:00] has the courage like President Clinton and President Bush did Uh 20 30 years ago to correct records Uh, they need to do it So the this controversy doesn't last for decades and decades And so that we can be proud of the courage and humility of our department of defense and government officials
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now, I have a devil's advocate thought here.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now, let's say, let's say that, um, someone does apologize, but how do we keep that behavior from happening in the future when people feel free to give illegal orders as long as the government apologizes for it later?
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Well, number one, they've wrapped themselves with the liability shields of the emergency use authorized products. So there's very little liability in saying, I'm sorry, we're going to correct things. Okay. Um, uh, I think that's the most important part. Um, number two, I think there will be a psychological [00:41:00] effect.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: If the military has to humble themselves, has to bow over and say, we're sorry, we were wrong. You know what? They're actually going to think twice next time they do this. Nobody said sorry after anthrax vaccine and its crimes. Uh, and nobody apologized. Nobody was held accountable. So therefore there was no psychological effect.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Uh, no, no barrier, no history, no accountability to keep them from doing it again with COVID vaccines. If the nation was was forced by a chief executive or a Congress or a court to say, we were wrong. We're sorry. We're going to fix it. I think they would actually think twice about doing it again. There's all kinds of levels of accountability.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Um, uh, my belief is correcting all of the records for everyone, soldiers and citizens, retroactively, fully. Without application is the [00:42:00] right way to do it. That precedent will keep it from ever happening again.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, Colonel Renfrew, thank you so much for sharing your book with us. I can't wait to get my copy and start reading it. Uh, I hope it comes out on audio book. I'd love to hear you read it. Uh, Hopefully I can, uh, light a fire under you for doing that because I'd love to hear you read it. I love your passion about this, and I also want to personally thank you for being a guiding force and a leader through this entire process.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I know you, you kind of alluded that a bit, but, um, but there's been many meetings where I've been sitting in with other of these, um, service members. You talked about where you're there giving guidance, you know, because you've been through this fight before. You say, well, well, remember this and remember that and, and this is what they did before.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And this is how we countered it before. And, you know, consider these things. And I want to truly thank you from the bottom of my heart, the leadership that you've given in the past while I was still in, [00:43:00] you know, whatever middle school or high school, um, But even now, while I was in the fight and continuing to give that guiding leadership to the service members that are still fighting.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Yeah. And I appreciate that, Sam. And as you know, I tried very early on to be very careful. Tiptoe. I, um, I was very concerned because I had helped RFK Jr, uh, with a citizen petition at the, uh, uh, behest of Dr. Meryl Nass. And when we put together that citizen petition, it did appear the government was going down this wrong road again.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: So I would, I was trying to be very careful to not encourage people to refuse. COVID vaccines. I didn't want to cause the professional problems that we had, uh, endured over the years. But once soldiers did refuse, and once the military started punishing soldiers with general, uh, discharges, coercing, harassing, bullying them, once I saw all the same patterns, I, I, I basically felt like as with the anthrax vaccine, I had a duty to it.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Get involved and stay involved. [00:44:00] And in contrast to initially being proud of the department of defense for voluntarily administering, um, emergency use authorized products, I was, it was shameful that they turned around and started mandating emergency use authorized products, not only in violation of law, but in express violation of the secretary of defense directive.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: So it's shameful. It has to be corrected. And I have been proud to. Hopefully, uh, provide some of the, the background, the historical experience, um, and, and that's what the book does as well. It provides, uh, some rules of engagement for whistleblowers. And not only do I lay out the patterns, uh, between these two, um, dilemmas, but I also try to, uh, lay out some, uh, guidelines for how whistleblowers should try to handle these situations.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Where can we get your book at? When does it come out? And what is your website? If you want to look
ret COL Tom Rempfer: it up. I will add one, uh, part of that. One of the, one of the most important [00:45:00] aspects of my, of my rules of engagement is never give a mammo. You know, never give the Department of Defense, uh, or the government, uh, uh, any commander an opportunity to change the subject and, uh, come after you for some other, uh, tangential allegation.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: That's what they do. They try to, uh, create a case against people so that a discharge of a soldier or a, firing of an employee, uh, is not about the fundamental policy issue that was in violation of the law. I always say, no ammo, don't give them ammo. I've, I've trained my kids from day one with that kind of guidance.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: So part of that ammo is, uh, not giving them ammo is giving a disclaimer that says, um, my views do not represent the department of defense or the U. S. government at this time. But my caveat to that is it should, they need to have the honor to Resurvey their judgments and follow their oath of office and correct [00:46:00] everything for the troops and the citizens, uh, who have, they have wronged.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, to, to that ammo effect. Uh, I know a physician, he's actually interviewed him here and he was discharged other than honorable because he refused to wear a mask because, well, that wasn't part of the COVID issue. Well, When you look at COVID masks or any masking, they were under emergency use authorization, so it was covered by the exact same law that you were talking about.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: 10 U. S. C. 1107 Alpha.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Correct. Um, you know, all of these countermeasures were emergency use authorized. The same law should have applied. Um, if I, if I'm guessing correctly, Lieutenant, uh, Bashaw's, um, court martialed, the only soldier court martialed in the United States military over refusing to participate in, um, uh, EUA countermeasures, which should have been optional and most either didn't [00:47:00] work or The efficacy of those countermeasures are very, very suspect at this point, three, four years later from an historical lens, the department of defense only court martialed one person.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: They avoided all judicial review for every other soldier in the United States armed forces. If the department of defense was so confident of the propriety And the inference of legality of their mandates, they would have court martialed a lot of people like they did with the anthrax vaccine. They didn't because they knew their mandates were patently illegal.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: For the only soldier punished, Lieutenant Bashoff, That court martial needs to be stricken from the records, whether it is our Honorable Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who makes that happen, or our Secretary of Defense, or a future Secretary of Defense, or President. That needs to happen. That would be the absolute correct first step.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: First [00:48:00] punishment corrected. By our government for their wrongdoing, not the troops.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Where can we get your book? When is it coming out?
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Unyielding. org is my website. It's a tribute to my buddy. Uh, you can click on the book. It'll take you to the publisher website, uh, Skyhorse publishing. Very grateful to them.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Very grateful to children's health defense for providing the imprint and sponsorship. For the book, um, uh, you can just search on yielding and my name, Brimford, um, at, uh, Amazon or Barnes and Noble. Uh, but if you go to yielding. org, click on the book, takes you to the publisher's website, Skyhorse takes you to all the vendors to purchase the book.
ret COL Tom Rempfer: Um, be very, I'd be very grateful. For that, get the word out, get the history lesson out there for future generations. That's what it comes down to at this point. They've struck out twice. We don't want to give them the opportunity to make the same mistakes again. [00:49:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, so check out his book. Purchase it if you can.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Leave a review and tell your friends about it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you, Sam. Thank you, Tom. God bless.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, due to uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the [00:50:00] USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and it's and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if we compare what we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major steak companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours.
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131. Sublingual Ketamine Part 2, With Dr. Rachel Wilkenson and Dr. Mitch Liester
Today I have Dr. Mitch Liester back on, along with Dr. Rachel Wilkenson. They both talk about micro-dosing sublingual ketamine and how it is the most effective treatment for neuropsychiatric disease they these two physicians have seen in 40 years and 18 years of experience respectively. Please listen to hear more. Thank you.
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131. Sublingual Ketamine, With Dr. Rachel Wilkenson
===
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: [00:00:00] Sublingual ketamine, especially microdosed, is possibly the most effective neuropsychiatric medication I've ever experienced in my 18 years of full time psychiatric practice, working with severely treatment resistant neuropsychiatric cases. I have one case, a woman, who was diagnosed with posterior cortical atrophy.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So the back of her brain was shrinking. She also came with a psychiatric diagnosis of bipolar one disorder, even with the motor gene, she developed a seizure like episodes. So we stopped everything that I had traditionally used and considered ketamine. And to this day, she has returned to her job. She is performing extremely well in the job that she had before she became disabled from posterior cortical atrophy.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And she is able to walk unassisted without a cane. She's able to talk [00:01:00] fluently, including, uh, giving lectures. So she's had a dramatic turnaround and is so excited about her story that she's sharing it with everybody that she can.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed, I've been wearing this t shirt for a few episodes now. I have them available on eBay.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Check out the links below to get your size. Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA, it's processed in the USA, in fact it's fully vertically integrated.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you. And if we compare what we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell Bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it, [00:02:00] it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out mycleanbeef.com/afterhours. That's mycleanbeef.com/afterhours. That's mycleanbeef.com/afterhours
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff, [00:03:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: well, thank you for joining me again. I first want to give a shout out to my Patreon supporters. We've got Too tough giving $30 a month. We've got the anonymous family donor giving $20 and 20 cents a month. We have the pandemic reprimand tier giving $17 and 76 cents a month with Ty, Charles, tinfoil Stanley, Dr. Anna, Frank, Brian, shell, Brantley, and Gary, we've got. Kevin and Patton Bev giving 10 a month. We've got the Refined Not Burned level at 5 a month with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. Addison Mulder is giving 3 a month, and Frank is giving 1. 50. And then we have the Courageous Contagious at 1 a month with Jay Spessnasty, Darrell, Susan, B. B. King, Caleb and Sharon. I want to thank you all for helping me get these out. I truly appreciate it. It's helping me fight this legal fight I have against the government. Also, please check out [00:04:00] mycleanbeef. com slash after hours. That's mycleanbeef. com slash after hours for some of the best beef that I've ever had.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So next, I want to welcome back Dr. Mitch Leister and Dr. Rachel, uh, Wilkinson. Thank you so much for coming on and joining me again, uh, I've had so much good reviews of the, the last episode that you and I, Dr. Leister did, and, and about ketamine. So I want to have your, your colleague, uh, that you, you mentioned in the last episode we did, and I want to hear more about the ketamine.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well,
Dr. Mitch Liester: thank you, Sam. Thanks for inviting us both on, and I have to tell you that, uh, Rachel's the brains in this group. She was the one that discovered the protocol we're using, and it's been, Doing it for years before I even learned about it. And she's kind of guided me and helped me through. So I'm really thrilled she's gonna come and talk to you about her experience, uh, which is pretty extensive with the ketamine.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I kind of, you meant . I really appreciate you've been so supportive throughout.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How did you first hear about using [00:05:00] ketamine in this way?
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Uh, I ran to upload a deal of my patients who stopped making the kind of progress that would allow them to go back into the work setting. They start focus and attention and the ability to problem solve. We call that group of, um, brain functions, executive skills. And I thought at 1st, the best that I could do was to use a long acting stimulant, like, Which I did at first, and that only was effective, I want to say, for about six to nine months with a lot of my serally treatment resistant patients, on top of their other medications to control inflammation.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So they had made progress with sleep and mood stability and just could not advance any further with their cognition. So I went back to the National Library of Medicine, many know it as PubMed. com, where [00:06:00] Archives of almost all the studies across the world are available for free to look through. And I searched for mechanisms to heal brain tissue.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We call that neuroregeneration. And I found academic work surrounding ketamine, which I had heard of in other settings. And was a little bit fearful about. I was trained traditionally, uh, by a very talented psychopharmacologist. And in the traditional world, we had considered ketamine a substance of abuse.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So something that was abused on the streets. So I hadn't really dove into using ketamine until I found that literature about neuroregeneration in animals. And Of around the same time, one of my very talented professors, Dr. Sheldon Prescorn from the University of Kansas came into the city to give a talk on intranasal esketamine or spravato, and he was very positive about it.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I was [00:07:00] impressed and I thought, well, I'd like to give that a try. However, at my clinic. We had so many limitations with staffing. We prioritized the underserved, and so that lends its own challenges in the clinical setting. I didn't have the kind of support needed to provide spravato, which specifically would mean patients had to come into the clinic every dose Wait for two hours after the dose because it was used, uh, quite high doses.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Spravato is 50 percent bioavailable in the intranasal form. IV is 100 percent available and then sublingual is 30 percent available. So it's very potent and the patients need about two hours to have the wear off effect where they feel comfortable going home and they can't drive themselves home and they must be supervised.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: By clinical staff for that two hour period. We didn't have a room that they could be supervised in. I didn't have [00:08:00] staff to help them administer the dose. So I started looking for other options and found one paper from the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry on sublingual ketamine and treatment resistant depression.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And it was not exactly the program that I use now, but it gave enough guidance that I had a sense that it could be compounded in sublingual form. Most of the administration, almost regardless of format, including sublingual and IV, are intermittently dosed, so not daily. That's where I started, and then gradually developed the protocol that we use now.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Based on about a year of clinical experience, and I've been prescribing sublingual ketamine for ease of use, cost savings, it's much cheaper than the other forms of ketamine, and after a prolonged period of time, I've learned that Sublingual ketamine appears to be quite safe [00:09:00] in multiple types of patients.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So, I have become very comfortable using it, and I, and Mitch probably knows this too, I see mostly treatment resistant patients. If the standard treatments for psychiatric conditions were to be effective for them, most, at least in my clinic, I work among primary care providers. Would not need my help. So they are treatment resistant to begin with and ketamine is a medicine that I often use now
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's amazing. Let's let's get into the PowerPoint that you sent to me and If we could go through all that because I think there's a lot of really great information there as well
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Okay, so this is a relatively short slide deck, but it gives you an overview of I've entitled it Sublingual Ketamine, and you'll see Dr.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Leister and my name there at the bottom. I will go through several basic concepts to [00:10:00] build on this idea of using ketamine, um, and then give some case reports as well. So before I start into the case report, we'll go to the disclaimers. You see my credentials there and Dr. Lester's I'm an integrated psychiatrist Embedded in a primary care and internal medicine setting so I manage my own traditional caseload where I see patients face to face Also, I work with the other types of doctors who are not psychiatrists with their psychiatric cases helping them to manage without direct Psychiatric support and that's been going really well.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: It's a lot of fun. The doctors are receptive and learning a lot. The standard disclaimer, this is for educational purposes and just an overview next of sublingual ketamine and our agenda for today. So we'll start with the case reports. I'll go over the specifics of the protocol [00:11:00] with pictures of how the medication is prepared and compounded.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And then discuss basic concepts of neuroregeneration and neurodegeneration. We will go over other psychoplastogens briefly, and then I'll outline the background that led to me. Going down this road with ketamine. So I'll start with my case report. I began working with a young person in their twenties on Medicaid, my bread and butter in the clinic is Medicaid patients.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Often they are challenged with poverty and multiple types of illness, not just mental illness. But I chose this case because it's very clear and how it gives an example of the ability of ketamine to help restore cognitive function. This patient was isolating in their room, would not leave their house, behaved as though they were afraid often, even around their own family members.[00:12:00]
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They lost the ability to smile, it seemed, according to the patient and the family members. They had no desire to engage in hobbies. They seemed incapable of having joy or fun. They were retreating to self medication through cannabis and alcohol, which is not uncommon. And they had been diagnosed in high school with dyslexia, auditory processing disorder, barely graduated high school, and had a very low sense of confidence.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They had no desire to get a job, were not interviewing for a job, so this is a very sad person brought in by their family. They had engaged with psychiatric care before I met them and been diagnosed with multiple conditions. So, on the next slide, you'll see they were diagnosed with major depressive disorder that learning disability.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I mentioned with dyslexia and auditory processing disorder. Post traumatic stress disorder, cannabis use disorder, and they were impoverished. The [00:13:00] treatments they had tried included serotonergic agents, but those made their anxiety worse and actually caused suicidal thoughts and worsened them. So those medications were discontinued.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And when they came to me, they were already on gabapentin. And bupropion, also known as Welbutrin. The family were very frightened of any medication changes in one sense. They did not want to discontinue the medication the patient was on, because they remembered how bad they were before. However, they also knew the patient was not doing well on the medication.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So, we were challenged with this idea of what else could we do in addition to their current psychiatric medication and not make things worse. The prognosis of this type of patient before I discovered ketamine was very poor. These patients with very high anxiety and little ability to enjoy life, low confidence, [00:14:00] usually meant that they would lead a life of prolonged disability, stay on Medicaid, and struggle with their occupational efforts.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Many times as well, they would not advance in the various stages of their life into relationships, building a family and so forth. So this is a very hopeless looking patient at first. We discussed the option of ketamine. They researched what I gave them. There's a detailed informed consent process we go through because ketamine That I use the sublingual form is off label.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: The FDA has not recommended sublingual ketamine. However, they have recommended intranasal S ketamine for treatment resistant depression. Once the family were in agreement to start sublingual ketamine, we worked through that informed consent process and began a low dose. The patient tolerated it fairly well and stayed on a low dose of around 25 [00:15:00] milligrams.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We raised it to 50 milligrams and then waited. This patient did not come in often to the clinic, about every three to six months. And over the course of two years, their presentation really turned around. So next slide, we will discuss what they looked like after two years. After two years, at the age of 23, this patient was reducing cannabis use.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Also using nicotine, no longer using alcohol. They went back to college, uh, did very well, were elevated to the dean's list, won a national award for academic work. And had been accepted at a prestigious program in their area of academic interest in an out of state university. By the time I saw them two years later, I want to say I visited with them probably three to four times over that period.[00:16:00]
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Each subsequent visit, they started making eye contact, smiling a little bit, uh, becoming more fluent with their speech and their facial expressions and their. It began to appear at least like they're learning disability was slowly melting away. Family confirmed this. They were also leaving home regularly and we're ready to move out of state and go to college.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They were vibrant and we're helping their parents and their siblings every day on the next slide. I'll just expand their historic diagnoses. Uh, they no longer criteria for they did meet criteria ongoing for generalized anxiety disorder. And they were reducing the doses of both psychiatric medications and the cannabis, like I mentioned.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So, it seems with this patient, like the dose of 50 mg sublingual ketamine was really serving them well. They did not have any suicidal thoughts within weeks of starting the ketamine. [00:17:00] And then the remaining symptoms slowly improved over that two year timeframe. And just in the last one to two weeks, we had our closing visit.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They were very thankful, um, and had learned a lot about psychiatric medications, very confident, made good eye contact and were smiling during the whole, uh, Clinic time that we spent together. So now the prognosis is completely turned around. I believe this patient will do very well. They're excited about their life.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I would estimate if I were following this patient long term, which I can't do because they're moving out of state. that they will continue to taper off of their traditional psychiatric medications, stay on the sublingual ketamine for probably another several years. I do have patients now who've been on ketamine for about three to four years, and they're tapering even off of that ketamine dose after getting off of their old traditional medications and want to see if they're able to [00:18:00] maintain their mental health Basically, with the very strong, uh, pro health lifestyle, clean diet, filtered water, um, enriched social life.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So, their ultimate goal is to come off of almost all synthetic medications. And I support them in that. Obviously, we give them informed consent. With and without treatment and they always know if they start to struggle again that we could restart ketamine So in the next slide, sorry sam. I lost my earbud pause there
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: in the next slide. You will see a picture of ketamine powder these pictures were sent to me by our compounding pharmacist who's been very Enthusiastic about this project and has said to me and I'm sure to Mitch as well [00:19:00] that they can see visible signs, uh, of the patients improving as they come in to get their medicine from month to month.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So the ketamine powder starts like this next slide here. You see in a beaker, the solidified mixing compound that the ketamine powder will be dissolved in that is melted and then it's mixed together. Here you see the mixing tools on the next slide, and on the next slide, once the mixture is complete, it will be loaded into a pipette and then dispensed in this blue tray of squares, which we call trochies.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Initially, it's a thick liquid, and then this cools to a soft, waxy consistency, which the patients can easily cut down to size. Usually I'll have the patients quarter [00:20:00] it, and the standard dose is 100 milligrams per trochee, 100 milligrams per square. And I will have them start off at about a quarter of that or 25 milligram dose, and we'll go into detail further in just a second.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So next slide there, you see the completed tray where the product has solidified, but there's a machine from the light where you can see that it has hardened. And this is what patients will sometimes put in their refrigerator, carry it around. It can melt, so they know that they have to keep it cool enough not to melt.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Next slide. We will go over the standard sublingual ketamine protocol. So as I mentioned before, each square is approximately 100 milligrams, and it dissolves slowly under the tongue or in the mouth. Often patients will put it between their cheek. and their gum line and just slowly wait for it to melt, which takes [00:21:00] about 20 to 30 minutes.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They began about a quarter trochee every three days for four doses, and that tends to be 25 milligrams and then take that 25 milligrams every other day for four doses. The four doses mark seems to be about what patients need to adjust to the new dose. Uh, and they will notice initially after taking it that they feel a little bit dizzy and then that dizziness subsides and then they raise the dose.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: After the second series of four doses, they will start to take the medication daily if they tolerate it. And from that point on subsequent visits, we discuss titrating the dose, increasing the dose. Sorry, my nose is running by 25 milligrams every two to four weeks up to a maximum daily dose. Thanks. Of 175 milligrams a day.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: That's the highest I go. Generally, I do have 2 patients on [00:22:00] 200 milligrams and they are both over 6 foot 5 over 250 pounds. The absorption of the ketamine again, sublingual form is between 25 and 30 percent the total dose. So that 175 milligrams, um, I think it's around 50 or so milligrams. Maybe next slide.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Lab monitoring for this medication. So initially with the research that I found on the National Library of Medicine, there were indications that overdose of ketamine led to acute kidney failure. So I watched the kidneys pretty closely, especially when I started this project with our pilot group of patients.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And then palpitations. So heart palpitations, fast heart rate was experienced by some of the patients right after taking the medicine and seemed to escalate to about the 30 minute mark after the dose. And those that had this side effect, [00:23:00] I did not find The heart palpitations to limit the use of the medication.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I mainly saw palpitations in the patients with preexisting cardiac disease. They had palpitations to begin with. The ketamine seemed to make it a little bit worse. Initially I was so cautious. I sent them back to their cardiologists. They already had established care with to get medical clearance. And every single one came back with medical clearance by their cardiologist to continue the treatment.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So the heart patients have done quite well. Patients with pre existing kidney disease, chronic kidney failure, in other words, where, uh, one lab that we watch with doctors called the glomerular filtration rate was around 35, somewhere in there. I'm more cautious with. Those patients can have lower glomerular filtration rates with too high of a dose of ketamine.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So, typically I will reduce the dose and make sure that, uh, their kidney [00:24:00] physicians, their specialists are also monitoring them with me. In a couple cases, especially if patients are not, you know, As good at hydration, not as good at drinking water. We will stop the ketamine and then consider restarting if their kidneys look to be improving.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So by and large, the monitoring of ketamine is pretty easy. We do get baseline labs as we would for any traditional medication. Those would be like a thyroid panel, comprehensive metabolic panel to check the kidney and liver and electrolytes, uh, uh, complete. Blood count. Uh, sometimes I'll also get drug screening on my patients.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We have a lot of cannabis used here in Colorado and I found that There can be an interaction between THC and ketamine, namely increased cardiovascular side effects like heart palpitations and then increased risk of illusions and possibly [00:25:00] visual hallucinations. So ketamine when it Is too highly dosed will cause visual distortions.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I have found borderline psychosis, which we would define as hallucinations and delusions in my field. I personally believe that once the patient has those early signs of psychosis, they've already had a toxic dose. So I do not like high doses of ketamine. And I had to learn that through this project.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Before I started the sublingual ketamine, and I had reviewed the National Library of Medicine literature, I thought that IV ketamine was very similar in efficacy to intranasal, which was very similar in efficacy to sublingual. The difference I thought beforehand was in the time to improvement. I had assumed that the higher dose intravenous was faster to lead to improvement than intranasal.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And then intranasal is faster than sublingual. But what [00:26:00] I have found actually is the low dose, the micro dosing of ketamine over a prolonged period of time, months, has led to the most long lasting, gradual improvements that do not seem to regress. Whereas my patients that we referred out to clinics that did the IV and intranasal, like we couldn't, did not fare as well.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They might have had. Short term improvements in their side. Sorry symptoms. However, that was not long lasting and after their treatment protocols were finished Especially the IV treatment protocols which were very short term and high cost their symptoms of depression Returned moving on the same slide on the ketamine protocol.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I'll make a Notation of pregnancy. So I do not use ketamine in pregnancy. There are no studies out indicating efficacy. I'm not [00:27:00] inclined to believe that it's safe because it can alter blood pressure and blood pressure in, uh, Pregnancy is something that's very closely monitored, especially with the condition we know as preeclampsia, where blood flow is compromised through the placenta.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And this can compromise the baby's access to healthy blood supply. We do get EKGs if necessary on patients with preexisting cardiac disease. If patients report palpitations, I'll also get an EKG, but otherwise most patients tolerate this dosing schedule. There is one group of patients that needs a lower dose.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And for those patients, I continue the same schedule a quarter. Every three days and then every two days, but I use the compounding dose per trochee instead of 100. I'll go down to 25. So it's 1 4th, the standard dose and that group of [00:28:00] patients would be my severe autoimmune disease patients. They're just more sensitive to medication and they do quite well.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: It just takes a lower dose initially and eventually they tolerate a higher dose. The cost of ketamine is worth noting, especially sublingually, because it's very affordable. Even for Medicaid patients who are impoverished, especially when they find how well it works for them, many on fixed income are willing to pay the cash price because insurance does not cover this.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: It is off label. And locally, I believe the cost started around 25 a month. And now, uh, we have a higher cost of living here in Colorado. I believe the prices have increased up to about 40 a month, especially at the higher dose end.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Moving on. I want to describe several concepts about how the brain has, uh, seemed to work. [00:29:00] Now, brief comment here. Traditional psychiatry has been built on the use of descriptions of symptoms and then grouping of those symptoms into syndromes. And then an assumption that those syndromes are a disease. I believe personally this is our best historic attempt at explaining what's very difficult to understand as far as brain function by how a person is feeling or behaving.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So this is the type of paradigm or pattern of practice that I had to work through to get to ketamine. What do I mean by that? My view of traditional psychiatry is that it's been a very outside in attempt at understanding the brain. Understanding the brain by behaviors of a person or a person's self reported symptoms.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: When I encountered Difficulty helping patients [00:30:00] improve their condition beyond what I was trained to do. Essentially, when they became so treatment resistant and all the wizardry of psychopharmacology that I learned in training wasn't enough to help them, I looked at the brain in a different way. I started asking myself, what if a lot of psychiatric symptoms actually begin in the cells?
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: What if this is an inside the cell problem? And how do we help the brain cells function better? If they're not functioning well. So that is more of an inside out disease pattern understanding. And that's what helped me find ketamine. Initially I had to get through this. understanding of how brain cells get sick, and we call that neuroinflammation.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So in this first slide of concepts, you'll see a description of neuroinflammation, very basic description where cell stress. So brain cell stress leads to this process. [00:31:00] We call glutamate toxicity, which is where the neural hormone glutamate, which is the main activating hormone in the brain rises so much that it causes the cell to be overexcited.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And if that remains uncontrolled, the cell can actually die. If enough cells die, and I'll go on to the next slide here, it can cause brain scarring, which can in some cases be visible on PET scans, certain types of brain scans, and then ultimately this leads to a decrease in a person's ability to function.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Not just psychiatrically in their emotions, but also in neurologic ways, certainly with cognition. So their memory starts to worsen. They're not able to focus. They're not able to problem solve or be useful in the work environment. So I had to understand that process before I understood how we could try to help heal cells.[00:32:00]
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: In a lot of treatment resistant psychiatric conditions, I believe, especially the more severe kinds like bipolar one disorder and schizophrenia, it's been documented that repeat brain scans will show shrinkage of the brain because of cell loss and the scarring process. So we know cells are struggling and dying, and we did not necessarily know how to help them stabilize or perhaps even regenerate.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Then, uh, ketamine. So I'll move on to the next slide. Ketamine is a neuroregenerative compound, it turns out. This has been shown in animal models. We call it also a psychoplastogen. When I entered medical school in the year 2000, I believe it was at Cambridge, There was a study that showed brain cells could regrow.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: They were in the hippocampus, uh, but it was a very exciting time. And now 24 years later, uh, I feel [00:33:00] as though we are entering a different phase of neuropsychiatric understanding. And broadly, I believe the professions will understand together and start to practice in a different way where we expect. More recovery, we have more hope for patients, whereas in the past, patients might have been told the brain cannot heal.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So how does the brain heal with these cycloplastogens? Cycloplastogens, including ketamine, increase a hormone called brain derived neurotrophic factor, or BDNF. This is also referred to, colloquially, as miracle grow for the brain. And it helps brain cells regrow. Make more connections between styles. And I have one case and it's very exciting case of a woman who was diagnosed with posterior cortical atrophy.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So the back of her brain was [00:34:00] shrinking. She also came with a psychiatric diagnosis of bipolar one disorder. She did not tolerate any traditional psychiatric medication, not even one that I commonly use for neuroinflammation called the motor gene, which reduces glutamate inside of cells and raises glutathione.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We tried. Several different psychiatric medications, even with Lamotrigine, she developed, uh, seizure like episodes. So we stopped everything that I had traditionally used and considered ketamine. She's a very intelligent woman, understood the process of informed consent. We started a low dose of ketamine.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And she was one of my patients who did respond like an autoimmune encephalopathy patient or an autoimmune brain disease patient where the immune system starts to attack different parts of the brain. So we used very low doses. She only tolerated 25 milligrams at first. We [00:35:00] started this, I want to say, about four years ago.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So she was one of my first patients on this medication. At the standard period of time that psychiatrists are trained to watch for changes, which would be around three months. So if you start a serotonin med, we kind of wait for changes for three months. She didn't notice anything, but we talked very candidly and realized together that we didn't have many other options.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So we decided to continue the ketamine treatment. Around the ninth month, she started noticing that she was seeing better. Her symptoms neurologically included loss of vision. So when I first met her, she was unable to write. Her script looked like cuneiform in size 200 or something, and she could not walk well and assisted.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: She had very distorted visuospatial senses, and she struggled to speak fluently. She would have halting speech and [00:36:00] have word finding problems. So at the ninth month mark, she told me, she said, Doc, all right. So she said, I think I'm seeing better, doctor. We both consider this to be very strange because it's, Really not common to have a patient's vision improve.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: She had been following with a neuro ophthalmologist and was doing testing. I want to say every three months and sure enough, her vision had been improving. Her neurologist locally also noticed improving neurologic function as he was following her and we had a conversation about her case. She and I continued the ketamine and about 18 to 24 months into her treatment on the 25 milligrams of ketamine, She started tolerating a higher dose.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We slowly increased around 40 milligrams a day. And then she said, Doc, [00:37:00] I've been disabled for so long. I rely on my elderly mother to help me out at the home. And, uh, I don't see this as sustainable. But I'm feeling so strong in myself. I wonder if I could try to go back to work. And this patient was highly educated, had a doctorate, and was very hesitant and worried for her because I wasn't sure she would be successful, but together we made a plan with an exit strategy if needed.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And she went for it. And to this day, she has returned to her job. She is performing extremely well in the job that she had before she became disabled from posterior cortical atrophy. And she is able to walk unassisted without a cane. She's able to talk fluently, including, uh, giving lectures. And she's able to write extremely well.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Her handwriting is much better than mine. It's perfect [00:38:00] So she's had a dramatic turnaround and is so excited about her story that she's sharing it with everybody that she can. So this is what I have seen clinically, uh, on her MRI scans as well. Her neurologist noted that there appeared to be thickening of the cortex, which I would tend to interpret as regrowth of nervous tissue.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We've had two other neurologists look at her scans just to make sure. You know, we weren't imagining this and they also agree that there's something very interesting and unusual going on. And along with her clinical signs and symptoms, this needs to be, um, investigated further and possibly written about and shared with the profession.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: So it's a very exciting case. I never expected. To see anything like this, of course human studies are few and far between at this point. But I would [00:39:00] summarize my experience with this case and over the four years to say that sublingual ketamine, especially micro dosed, is possibly the most effective neuropsychiatric medication I've ever experienced in my 18 years of full time psychiatric practice, working with severely treatment resistant patients.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: neuropsychiatric cases. Also on this slide, I just want to point out the picture. On the top, you'll see a neuron. We call it a control, a neuron without ketamine. On the bottom, you'll see the neuron with ketamine, and you'll see a lot more little buds forming. Call these dendrites or little tree like extensions or branches.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: that reach out to other neurons. And that's how learning often occurs is when you learn something new, you have new little dendrites, new branches that reach out and touch one another and create networks. So this is an animal model, I believe, [00:40:00] not a human one. We aren't in the tradition of taking brain biopsies on humans and studying them.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: But clinically, I believe this is similar to what happened to that patient. Next slide. There are other psychoplastogens that we are starting to research. You may know that in the state of Colorado, psilocybin has been decriminalized. So I've included that in the list. Although I do consider psilocybin to be fairly high risk in my patient population, it is highly serotonin based, and this can lead to an increased risk of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, emergence of mania.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I do have patients who've developed schizophrenia from excess psilocybin use, and there is certainly a toxicity risk for all, I think, of these, but specifically psilocybin and ketamine. Even ketamine, if you get too high of a dose, can cause psychosis, and what I believe are signs of neurotoxicity. Other [00:41:00] psychoplastogens that may not require Prescription would be lion's mane mushroom.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: This you can get over the counter in supplement form. You can also possibly grow it. I know there are some stores here locally that teach patients to, or um, clients. To grow their own, uh, supply. That's a whole other topic, probably for another day. And then tiger milk mushroom. There are probably up to 100 other different mushroom or fungal based compounds.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: That help increase secretion of this brain derived neurotrophic factor. And help lead to nervous system or nervous tissue regrowth. Next slide, I'll just briefly describe how I got here. Where the ideas from the protocol came from again, I was working in a setting where there's just tough psychiatric patients, lots of treatment resistance.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: The traditional models, the traditional medications were not enough to help them feel [00:42:00] good. I think at one point when I really started this journey, it was about 10 years ago. And I realized as the lead psychiatrist in a community psychiatric clinic, we were getting patients from the Department of Corrections, the state hospitals, even with all my training and all the wizardry with psychiatric medication that I was taught, uh, only 50 percent were responding.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And by response, I don't mean that they were necessarily Good. I think they were less bad, but they had these persisting cognitive problems, signs of neuroinflammation, and they were developing side effects from a lot of their psychiatric medications, which we know can include risk of, uh, insulin resistance, weight gain, metabolic disease.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And in general, psychiatric patients who have severe disease are expected to live 25 years, uh, less. And [00:43:00] the typical non psychiatric patient. Why is that? Is that just because of the mental illness? Or is it because of long term use of psychotropic medications that carry side effects? We don't really understand, but that's a foreboding.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Um, statistic. So these are the clients that I was working with and it motivated me to look beyond the traditional models into neuroscience, asking more inside out questions, like how do we help cells stabilize and then regrow? So, this is then, um, again, the trail that I kind of followed through the National Library of Medicine to find the underpinnings of neuroinflammatory disease, which were glutamate toxicity and cellular scarring and cellular death, and then neuroregeneration with the help of brain derived neurotrophic factor.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And I just want to say, you know, for my colleagues, uh, there's hope for patients who've [00:44:00] struggled with very little progress with traditional psychiatric treatments. We're always learning new things. We are at a very exciting time. These psychoplastogens are being researched in high level academic facilities, like the university of California Davis.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And, uh, I'm so excited to be a psychiatrist right now. So that's my story. And then Mitch listened to me and started his own use of the medication. And has seen very similar results with many of his cases, which has been just a thrill for me. And now I think our little group has expanded to, gosh, Mitch, maybe seven other providers in the community.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And we're hearing about other providers across the country figuring this out too.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Yes, Rachel, we just had an eighth, uh, provider last weekend, uh, psychiatrist called me and asked if I could show him how to, [00:45:00] uh, use the ketamine in this way because he's having some treatment resistant patients and it heard about the good results we're having. So, yes, more psychiatrists are learning about this, not only here in our area, but.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Around the state and other states as well. So it is growing also with Rachel's help We recently published a case report of a patient who had treatment resistant depression and borderline personality disorder Who's totally now in remission no longer meets criteria for either disorder with just 25 milligrams of ketamine daily So there's still a lot to learn but with Rachel's guidance and experience.
Dr. Mitch Liester: We're all learning And our patients have been wonderful at giving us feedback. So we're very excited to see where this is going to go.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is amazing. I mean, everything you've said is just like my, my jaw has just been sitting on the table here. Just like, this is incredible. It truly is amazing, Sam. And
Dr. Mitch Liester: I was just going to say, Rachel, you know, and Rachel's been doing this for a while.
Dr. Mitch Liester: I'm much older and I haven't been doing it for as long as she has, but it's the most exciting thing that I've experienced in my almost four year career in psychiatry. I've never seen results like we're getting with ketamine. [00:46:00] So I'm, I'm eternally grateful to Rachel and to my patients for being willing to try this treatment and to give, uh, ongoing feedback because they continue to teach me about additional benefits this medicine that I wasn't even aware of.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Rachel, I have a question for you. You mentioned, and Mitch mentioned this in the last episode I had him on, that it's like miracle growth for nervous tissue. Now, is that only? Let's say central nervous tissue, is that only, um, the brain or could that be central nervous tissue like the spinal column, could that be peripheral nerves, could that be, um, nervous tissue inside of muscles, i.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: e., you know, like for paresthesias or even for, uh, let's say myocarditis and changes that have happened after people have gotten certain things injected into them. What are your thoughts on that?
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I don't know for sure, but my guess would be both the central and the peripheral nervous system would show responsiveness to BDNF or similar growth factors.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: We have had observation of several [00:47:00] cases with neuropathy where the neuropathy improved. Neuropathy would be defined as pain in the extremities due to breakdown of the nervous tissue. So this improved over time and was also mirrored by increased function of those nerves. So if there were any types of movement problems that we observed, at least superficially, I don't think anything like severe spinal cord injury that we've been able to follow yet, but certainly more minor cases like, um, Mitch, I believe, had a case of neuropathy in the hand that reversed, and a patient gained sensation and function.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: But Mitch, you might be able to clarify your observations. I would say both central and peripheral nervous system benefits.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Yeah, Sam, I've had at least eight patients now spontaneously report that their peripheral neuropathy has improved. This is typically a peripheral neuropathy in the feet and it can involve pain, numbness, um, tingling.
Dr. Mitch Liester: And these are patients who spontaneous report. I wasn't asking about it. And [00:48:00] the other person Rachel was referring to is actually my sister. It was in a motor vehicle accident 30 years ago and had damage to her left ulnar nerve, which comes from the neck down the elbow down to the hand and her pinky finger and ring finger were numb for 30 years.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Her doctor put her on ketamine for a different reason and suddenly she can feel these two fingers for the first time in 30 years. So there certainly can be improvement in peripheral nerves, um, as well as central nervous system nerves, but to what extent is still to be discovered.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm thinking complex regional pain syndrome, I'm thinking, uh, you know, peripheral neuropathy from diabetes.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It seems like those could all be, uh, could have some benefit from this.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Yes, Sam. In fact, my sister has complex regional pain syndrome, which has been shown to respond to IV ketamine. So when her doctor put her on it for, um, put her on the ketamine for CRPS, um, she did report that her feet had been numb for years and she regained feeling in her feet [00:49:00] related to the CRPS. So yes, I think there are many other potential applications.
Dr. Mitch Liester: We just need some bright, uh, physicians to start exploring this and finding out other potential benefits.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt again, but I have so many questions. Um, have you used this in patients that have dementia? Have you used this in patients with, uh, autism? Have you used it in patients with, uh, I mean, obviously, depression, PTSD, um, dyslexia, I think you mentioned.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Can you, can you run down a list of patients off the top of your head that have improved from these, this medication?
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Yeah, Dr. Spigaloff, amazing. When I first started this project, I narrowed my population down to what the FDA had worked with, uh, in indicating scruvato, which is the treatment resistant depression group.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And with comfort and observation over time, I introduced it as an option for some of my most severely treatment resistant patients with other conditions. You mentioned [00:50:00] PTSD, autism, ADHD, dementia. Patients who had essentially no hope had exhausted almost all traditional therapies to this point. And one by one, I would say, uh, the vast majority of psychiatric diagnoses that I have worked with have responded.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: It does take longer than traditional therapies. I think that's because it is an intracellular and, uh, actual kind of cellular regrowth. Model versus a hormonal or extracellular modification model, which traditional psychiatry was built on. So it takes, you know, between nine months and three years to see dramatic clinical results.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: However, it seems to be long lasting the limitations. I see with ketamine at this time, after four years of working with the sublingual microdosing daily microdosing form would be more advanced. cases of autism, advanced cases of dementia. I don't [00:51:00] see the same kinds of improvements as I do with those early dementias.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: That patient case that I, uh, brought up with a posterior cortical atrophy, that is a form of dementia. That's like Alzheimer's at the back of the brain. We usually see it with more academically educated and successful patients. For some reason, their frontal lobes and their medial lobes seem to be a little bit resistant to the inflammatory.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Process, um, patients with diabetes, uh, who've had cognitive problems, memory problems related to diabetic disease. I think diabetes has been very closely related with dementia, and sometimes dementia is called insulin resistance of the brain. So multiple types of neuropsychiatric disease. I struggle even in this moment to think of a psychiatric illness that I have used it on that has not responded.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Um, Mitch, you might have more feedback there, too.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Yes, [00:52:00] just to build on what Rachel's saying, um, one of the joys of using this medicine in people with bipolar disorder is that it does not seem to trigger mania like some of the conventional antidepressants. That has made it much easier and safer to use. I would also add, um, seeing some success in a patient with a traumatic brain injury who had significant improvement.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Um, with the low dose sublingual ketamine. Um, so I think, Sam, there's probably a wealth of, uh, diagnoses or problems that may respond to this treatment. It's just a matter of having more providers utilizing it. Since Rachel and I together may have treated, I don't know, maybe at this point, five to seven hundred patients.
Dr. Mitch Liester: But I think once people start doing clinical trials or have more clinical experience with this, we're going to see a growth of additional, uh, problems that may respond to this treatment.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I want to add one more thing to one of the more dramatic recent findings I've had is the responsiveness of long term schizophrenic cases.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: There's this term negative symptoms, so [00:53:00] lack of motivation, lack of, uh, emotional engagement or attunement that usually comes with long term neuroinflammatory disease. That's a hallmark of advanced schizophrenia, you know, people not being able to speak clearly, dress themselves, tend to their hygiene, much less read a book or watch a movie.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Their dramatic cognitive decline is one of the most limiting factors of their disability later in life, especially over like the 7 to 10 year mark of their diagnosis. So I have two cases now that have finally settled down, and by that I mean their inflammation has calmed, they're sleeping well, their hallucinations are under control, where we tried a low dose of ketamine to see if it helped their cognition, and we Something amazing is happening with them.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Uh, the mother caretaker of one in particular said, you know, I haven't even seen my son read in over 15 years. And now he's not [00:54:00] only having deep conversations with me, he asked for an encyclopedia set. And now he's sitting down in his room reading through this encyclopedia. Uh, so we are seeing return of cognition, return of the ability of patients to care for themselves.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Another patient, similar story, but seven year history of schizophrenia again, six months ago, wasn't able to dress himself or keep a daily schedule. Now is dressing himself, keeping a daily schedule, reminding his mother when they leave the house. Uh, asking if she forgot her keys, her money, or her phone. He knows what medications he takes.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: He's tending to his hygiene. He's getting bored at home. So we're seeing return of some of these beautiful functions of these brains that were lost due to chronic inflammatory disease. And that's very exciting. That's been after years and years of treatment. So they would not have tolerated ketamine at first.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: It would have been too activating. Once [00:55:00] patients seem to be able to sleep well, the other signs of inflammation are stable. Their hallucinations are under control. For example, their mood is stable. Then we add in a low dose of ketamine and both are on 25 milligrams a couple times a week. So really low doses.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: And they're showing those improvements within months.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's just absolutely mind boggling. That's just amazing. I mean, this is such a miracle drug. What do you do for your patients that let's say are so Disfunctional or at such a, a low functionality, I guess, um, that they may not be able to keep it in their cheek or their tongue or underneath their tongue.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Is there, is there any way that you can help them keep it sublingual rather than swallowing it and not being able to absorb the medication?
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: You know, I don't think I've ever heard of such a case. I think they all seem to tolerate it. I do have patients complain that the, uh, taste is not that good, but [00:56:00] once they see how well it's working, they're more than willing to inflict the taste on themselves on a daily basis. Mitch, do you have any experience of patients not tolerating the sublingual form?
Dr. Mitch Liester: No, I have not had anybody stop it because of that. Also, some people mentioned the taste, but I've not had anybody stop the medicine because of the taste. Um, and really, if they don't tolerate, it's usually because the dose is just too high. We reduce the dose and they usually find a dose that works fine for them.
Dr. Mitch Liester: And some people, as Rachel mentioned earlier, are able to tolerate very low doses and it works well. I have a couple of patients on six milligrams every three days. And there was a study out of Brazil done about 11 years ago, where they gave people only 10 milligrams. Um, every two to seven days and saw benefits for depression.
Dr. Mitch Liester: So I think the dose response is one of the keys, Sam. And if, if they're not tolerating it, oftentimes it's just too high of a dose.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I have a patient who, um, it's not that he doesn't tolerate it. It's that he does what he wants to do. Cause he's, he's [00:57:00] more like a five year old, I would say. And he, he likes it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then he swallows it.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Well, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. The bioavailability is a little lower. If they swallow it, maybe 20 percent instead of 30%, but they still get the medicines. They just may need. To just the dose over time. So if people swallow it, it's not necessarily a lost cause.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Cause he's, he's already noticed improvement doing it every three days. His caretakers already noticed a great improvement, which is just amazing. Wonderful. What things do you want to leave us with here? As we wrap up towards the end, uh, where can people find you or find your research? Where can people support you if they're able to?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, and you know, if someone wants to reach out to you, what's a good way to get ahold of either of you. And if you don't want to give your personal email, that's perfectly fine too.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Yeah, Sam, I probably won't give my email or my phone. I'm a single mom. So, um, [00:58:00] Mitch, I'll let you chat about that in a minute.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: I would just say, our work is available on ResearchGate. It's a website that archives almost all the research done, even across the world, as an open source. So if you search my name online on ResearchGate, you'll find the research we've done so far. The same is true if you search Dr. Mitch Leister's name on ResearchGate, you'll find all of our work.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Mitch is much better at responding to correspondence, so I will let him share how he would prefer to be contacted.
Dr. Mitch Liester: Sure, and Sam, I'm happy to have people contact me via email. My email address is d r dot l i e S T E R, so it's doctor. leister at proton, P R O T O N dot M E. So if people want to email, uh, with any questions they have or experiences they have, I'm glad [00:59:00] to correspond with them.
Dr. Mitch Liester: And share any information they have.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I just want to encourage everybody. If you do reach out to Dr. Leester, uh, please don't ask for specific medical advice. He obviously cannot provide it. You're not a patient of his, but if you're asking for direction or, um, you know, guidance, how can I find a provider?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How can I find more research to give to my provider? Uh, if you're able to provide this particular video to your provider and see if that helps them, um, those are the type of questions to be asking. Thank you, Sam. Well, thank you so much, Rachel and Mitch for coming on. I truly appreciate this. This has just been a huge blessing for so many people that y'all have been able to reach out and touch and improve their life.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is just absolutely amazing. Thank you so much. Sam.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Dr. Sigaloff. I've really appreciated this time and it's a great period in history to Work in neuroscience, and I think there's so much hope in the future, far more than I ever imagined. [01:00:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, Dr. Wilkinson, Dr. Leister, thank you so much. And, you know, uh, I pray that you continue to see results like this with patients in the future, and that more patients, uh, throughout the country will see this video and be able to get this type of treatment if needed.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If it's the right fit for them. Thank you so much.
Dr. Rachel Wilkenson: Thank you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there. Due to uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.
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130. Chlorine Dioxide and SFC Luke DeRienzo
Today I talk with SFC Luke DeRienzo. He talks about Chlorine Dioxide and how it helped him get over his allergy to fish.
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130. Chlorine Dioxide and SFC Luke DeRienzo
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SFC Luke DeRienzo: [00:00:00] Yeah, it's a military decontaminant of some kind or another. And then when I said that the military shouldn't care about it Um, we lost connection.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Yeah, it's funny. Um, although apparently natick labs, according to army dot mil natick labs did develop, um, a no power method, really no power method, no power required method of generating chlorine dioxide, which, um, was a bio side helped in the fight against Ebola.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And that was back in 2014. If you've noticed I've been wearing this t shirt for a few episodes now, I have them available on eBay.
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Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything.
Nurse Kelly: And to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now, to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I want to again for joining me. I first want to say a shout out to all of my Patreon supporters. I've got two Tufts giving 30 a month. I've got an anonymous family donor giving seven, giving 20 and 20 cents a month. We've got the pandemic reprimando level at 17 and 76 a month with Ty Charles tinfoil, Stanley, Stanley, Dr. Anna, Frank, Brian, shell. Gary. We've got Kevin Alanos and Patton Bev giving 10 a month. [00:03:00] We've got the Refined Not Burned level at 5 a month with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. We've got Addison Mulder giving 3 a month and Frank giving 1. 50 a month. And then we have the Courageous Contagious tier at 1 a month with Jay, SpessNasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, Caleb, and Sharon.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much for all your support. And please check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours, that's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours for some of the best beef that I've certainly ever had. My children love it, I love it. It is The best tasting beef. Uh, I'm actually very spoiled now. I can't buy beef from the store anymore because it just, this beef tastes so much better.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Be sure and check it out. Alright, my next guest, he's been on before. You may recognize him from episode 55. Uh, we talked about interpretation and what language and how it, what it means. But today we have a new development in his health. [00:04:00] Uh, Luke, thanks for coming on.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Thanks for having me again, Sam.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, a while back, you and I talked about, uh, a substance called Chlorine Dioxide.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if you want to learn more about Chlorine Dioxide and the nuts and bolts of it, go check out episode 79 with Dr. Manuel Apricio. Um, and I want to make it very clear that I am not recommending anyone use this as a medical treatment. This is for educational purposes only. Uh, but Luke, you, you, you learned about it and you thought, this is interesting, I want to see if it's going to work for me.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So what did you try it for and what was your results?
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Well, so, what I tried it for, originally, I was trying to do a detox. I had done multiple types of detoxes before, such as liver cleanses and things like that, specifically with, um, some of the instructions from Dr. Eric Berg, um, who's a DC, and, uh, actually a DCNP Dr.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Ed Group. And those were, those were pretty good and those were pretty helpful. But I knew that the ultimate [00:05:00] detox we would be talking about would be chlorine dioxide. Of course, um, after looking up MMS1 and MMS2. The one thing that had never gone away for a while, and that I had heard from allergists over the years, was that my long standing seafood allergy that I'd had since I was four years old could eventually be overcome with the right cleanses and things like that.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: And I wasn't sure what the nutritionists were talking about or what the D. C., D. C. N. P. 's or the um, allergists were speaking of. But after 45 days of chlorine dioxide, I was able to eat about 7 kinds of fish with no reaction whatsoever.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now when you say allergic to seafood, now do you mean like crustaceans, do you mean, um, uh, shellfish, do you mean, um, fish, specific types of fish, whitefish, redfish, uh, get into the details of that a bit more.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: It was, it was multiple kinds, um, although with, with certain white fish, it was less [00:06:00] severe. What would normally happen, especially with shellfish or crustaceans or anything that, uh, tasted particularly fishy, even if I could get it down, as soon as it hit my stomach, my body would reject it and I would immediately vomit.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: It was actually pretty rough. I could eat something that I didn't know was fish, and then, uh, immediately have that reaction. And it had been that way since I was about four or five years old. Um, but some were more reaction inducing than others. Some were more, uh, I was, I guess I was more sensitive to some than others.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: It was really rough though. Like, it would make you sweat like crazy and everything. And I guess I was just allergic to seafood, so I just didn't eat it. And then I said, well, now that I've tried this, let me see whether I'm still allergic. And yeah, I wasn't, I was kind of, wow. So
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: you, you're able to eat any kind of anything that bothered you before, after doing this 45 day treatment, if you will, or, um, [00:07:00] you know, protocol, it was able to, to make it to where you could eat it and not vomit.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yes. Wow.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Yeah. And don't get me wrong. I'm not a huge fan of it now just because I
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: haven't
SFC Luke DeRienzo: eaten it for 29 years. Um, But I can eat it now if I want to. So now I always thought I didn't know what caused it, whether it was toxin exposure or something like that, or reaction to medication or something when I was younger.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: I have no idea what it was, but it was like, well, if I'd been born in Japan, I'd be dead by now. And I would have died of starvation naturally. But now I can eat fish if I have to, which is kind of.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And I would imagine you probably don't enjoy it just because you've, your body's conditioned. You'd not, not to like it after all those, uh, visceral responses.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Right. It's like Arabs who eat bacon for the first time. They might love the taste of it, but then get sick, because they just haven't eaten it their whole life. [00:08:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so, where did you discover chlorine dioxide? Because I know you and I talked about it a long time ago. Um, but where did you read about it, where did you learn about it?
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Um, well I knew about Pastor Grennan of the Genesis 2 Church. I had originally heard about it from there, and oddly enough I, had been sent that information by my sister who had much more success with chlorine dioxide than I did. Cause she had actually, she had more ailments that she overcame that Lee Merritt spoke of on her show.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Actually, I don't remember which episode it was, but after I tried chlorine dioxide, I told my sister, I said, Hey, do you remember when you sent me this stuff on MMS one and MMS two from the Genesis two group in Florida? And she remembered. And I said, well, okay, here. Here's what happened with me. See whether you can give it a shot, because it might help you.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: She had tunnel vision a little bit, which was decreased after that. It went away completely. And I think that was [00:09:00] only after 30 days of chlorine dioxide. Her energy levels increased. She had been excessively sweating for years and her, uh, especially working in South Georgia and in Florida. Um, and her sweating normalized.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: She said, she says her mood stabilized. Sorry, I'm reading off another screen. I'd written all this down on, she had hypothyroidism symptoms since she'd been a kid and those were all gone. Her heart rate also normalized, um, cause she had an irregular heart rate currently. And she said that was one of the low electrolyte symptoms.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Um, And she said that all of the symptoms she had of low electrolytes, um, were normalized after 30 days of CD.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And CD is chlorine dioxide .
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Yes, sorry.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, so she noticed quite an improvement after doing it every day for 30 days.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: [00:10:00] Yeah, and I don't remember how many drops she worked her way up to. I think I worked my way up to 10 drops pretty slowly. If we're going with the dosage that, you know, Dr. Lee Merritt talks about on her website. Okay. But I don't remember.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: I think my sister only went up to about six and even with only six drops of the same solution, she still had that kind of success after 30 days.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. And so you're talking about MMS one or was it a mineral miracle solution?
SFC Luke DeRienzo: I believe so. I think it's MMS two cause well, I don't actually remember. I know they're slightly different.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: I just don't remember exactly which one I took. My cousin took one of them and I took the other. So I have a cousin who also uses chlorine dioxide now. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And what did your cousin use it for?
SFC Luke DeRienzo: My cousin used it because he's had the worst allergies pretty much ever. Now, part of it is because of his breathing. He did have to [00:11:00] have facial surgery for sinuses and things like that. So that was a bit of a problem, but he also, he'd been trying raw honey and things like that to decrease his allergies.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: But, um, he ended up having to use chlorine dioxide to reduce it, so. He's, he's doing better. Um, He also brushes his teeth with chlorine dioxide and has reduced gingivitis. His mother had the same thing, so. She, uh, she also brushes her teeth with chlorine dioxide now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Do they use toothpaste and then chlorine dioxide, or just chlorine dioxide and no toothpaste?
SFC Luke DeRienzo: You know, I'm not sure, actually. I forgot to ask that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So how do you make your chlorine
SFC Luke DeRienzo: dioxide? Uh, to be honest, I only made it that one time and I made such a large batch that, um, I just did the, uh, dissolution of the crystals [00:12:00] of the, uh, what is it? Potassium chlorate? Potassium chlorate? Um, I'm sorry. Is it sodium chlorate? I have to go look it up again. I bought it, bought it one time.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Yeah. And then, um, I ended up putting it in a bottle and then using a medicine dropper and then, um, I believe I would put the water that I would drop it into, into the refrigerator and then I would just slowly drink it throughout the day. Um, I know Bob the plumber, his advice was to drink it before a meal.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: So you drink on an empty stomach like you're supposed to, but you wouldn't forget to take it throughout the day and you'd have too much too fast. I remember, I think I called you cause I said, Hey, am I drinking it too much too fast? Yeah. Men describe the symptoms to you and you said yeah, that sounds like too much too fast.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, so for anybody that tries it there is this reaction called Herxheimer reaction and the Herxheimer reaction is not like an [00:13:00] allergy and not like some sort of bad reaction to the to the substance, uh, like you can get with some medications. What a Herxheimer reaction is, is when it works in your body and it does exactly what it's supposed to, it gets rid of poisons and toxins and helps your body release them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, imagine now you have all these things floating around. Well, you can have a reaction to that, which for a lot of people is lots of loose stools. And so that's why you always start at a low dose. And if you start getting a Herxheimer reaction, then you reduce the dose until you can tolerate it. And then you start.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Slowly going up on the dosage again. That doesn't mean stop, that just means Slow down a bit slow down and decrease the dosage for a period of time because as it as many people postulate that it releases The content or it kills a lot of parasites that could be in your body that causes a reaction to your body because it has All these inflammatory chemicals floating around
SFC Luke DeRienzo: or the yeah, because you can also have the reaction where? If people do have parasites [00:14:00] people have certain parasite loads normally But isn't there an issue where you have a mother parasite that relates a whole releases a hormone that Stops all of her eggs from hatching until she's dead And then once you actually kill that parasite with an antiparasitic, including CD, the other ones can hash and you can end up with a much larger load than you thought you had.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm not completely familiar with that, but the idea of parasites is, yeah, you have to treat them in kind of a pulse dosing, uh, treat them now, treat them again in a week or so, treat them again in a week or so because, because of that phenomenon that you just mentioned, right? They'll release more after they're dead or they'll, um, not expose themselves to body fluids until the other ones are gone.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Cause they want to keep living too, and so rent free,
SFC Luke DeRienzo: of course, of course they do. Yeah. And then you end up with, um, a lot of times people get excessive urination from that too, because the body's just trying to flush everything out as fast as possible. [00:15:00] And that's what happened to me. But once I normalized the dose though, and started climbing up more slowly, everything was fine.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: So I believe, like I said, I 10 drops. Um, most of the time eight was more manageable. But, um, I've heard of people getting up above 10 without any issues after a while, but you normally have to do a regimen of it for, you have to do a few regimens of it before you work your way up to that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Because your body can react to it as you're releasing these toxins.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: When I've done it before, I've done a slightly different product. It's where you, um, you mix the A and the B inside of a chamber, inside of like a little cup inside of a chamber, and in that chamber is water. And so when it off gasses, the water absorbs the chlorine dioxide. And so you can get typically up to 30, or up to 3, 000 parts per million of chlorine dioxide in water.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it, [00:16:00] so it's really concentrated, so you have to dilute that when you take it in. And that, that's typically what I have around the house. And, and what I use for, you know, if there's an insect bite, I put it on the insect bite, and it seems to stop burning or itching very, very quickly.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Right, okay. That's, well, I mean, that makes sense, because venom is a toxin.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Right. So it could be denatured or broken down by that,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: but you use
SFC Luke DeRienzo: a, uh,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I even know a man who, um, his son was having an anaphylactic reaction and this man gave his son quite a strong, um, mixture of the chlorine dioxide and it arrested the anaphylaxis, like within a few minutes. It was, it was pretty amazing.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: From an allergy, so it's better than atropine or epinephrine.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, it was pretty amazing to watch this happen because he didn't have to give his [00:17:00] son the EpiPen, which would have been a fairly traumatic event for the age of the young man.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Oh, absolutely. Now, you used an activator with yours that was different from the one I used. I used citric acid, which does affect the taste.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: You used actual hydrochloric acid, correct?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right. But it actually, so, so what he's talking about is he uses the, the sodium and the activator and he puts that in his, in what he drinks. What I do is I have them in a separate chamber and as it reacts, it off gases and goes into the water. And so I don't actually get either of those compounds into what I use.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so that's the difference between like CDS, chlorine dioxide solution and MMS one. And so MMS one, it can cause a little bit of reaction and you can have a little bit of taste. Changes depend on what kind of acid activator use,
SFC Luke DeRienzo: right?
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Have you heard of many other [00:18:00] success stories with it? Because I only know of those four family members of mine. My parents took it as well when they heard about it. And they had some success. It was mostly for when they got sick from something, right? So, my mom Ended up having, she was outside working on a, on a farm that my parents owned.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: And the farm next door was spraying herbicide one day, and she got a big blast of herbicide. So naturally she took chlorine dioxide for the next few days to help get that out of her system. It, it does accelerate it and gets it done more quickly. The body, the body will do it on its own. Because I remember I had an issue with anti cholinergic poisoning in the same area.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Um, I ended up taking a blast of that to the face. Truck window was open because it was a really nice day. They were spraying on the other side of the road. Um, and then I described my symptoms to a doctor who said, Well, um, so it sounds like you have the [00:19:00] flu. But then, um, you also have the tingling of the skin and it feels like it's burning.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: It's like, yeah, he's like, okay, otherwise it would be the flu. But that is actually pesticide or herbicide poisoning. Like, okay. Local doctor accidentally admits that flu is detox related. Accidentally admits. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Perhaps.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: All right. Arthur Furstenberg may have been correct about some stuff. Yeah. The 1919 Navy Spanish flu experiment makes a lot more sense now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, and when you get into the research, the only people that got it got the quote Spanish flu were the people that got the vaccine to help prevent it or inadvertently cause it.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: And a lot of the radio men out in Kansas who were getting telegrapher's disease and then being prescribed aspirin in extremely large doses, which caused their lungs to fill up with blood because they didn't give army doctors instructions on how to [00:20:00] use aspirin or how to dose it.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Wow. You got, uh, what's that book, uh, The Poison Needle, talking about how, uh, the role that pharmaceuticals played in the 1990s, or 1918 Spanish flu. And then you have The Invisible Rainbow by Arthur Furstenberg, showing that, how radio influenced it, and then the Navy tried to prove the transmission and, well, they couldn't do it.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: By 1919 they published the results, and I guess by then everyone was done freaking out over it. But they let guys out of prison to volunteer for that experiment. And, um, thinking that they were going to die and guys took their chances and they were perfectly fine. Uh, so I guess that works out. It's a good deal.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. I don't think the IRB would approve that these days.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I do know
SFC Luke DeRienzo: that the Navy if the Navy let guys out of prison to do experiments, I don't think they'd be of the survivable kind because didn't they do something like that in 68 as well with the radiation exposure experiment? [00:21:00] Perhaps, yeah. Yeah, it was terrible.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I also know a man who used, um, chlorine dioxide.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: He had age related macular degeneration. So age related macular degeneration is where you, um, lose the, the ability to see, especially at the focal point of your vision. So you basically have a big black hole where you're trying to look and it just follows you everywhere. So you can see the peripheral, but you can't see the center.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And he started using eyedrops of chlorine dioxide. Went to the, uh, ophthalmologist and the ophthalmologist said, Well, it looks like it's not getting worse. And then went back to the ophthalmologist about three or six months later and, It's weird, it's, it's getting better. And, they did, this man did not need injections into his eyes, Uh, to stop this progression disease.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just, he just used the, the eye drops.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Oh, wow. Okay. So does that imply that it was likely parasitic for him to do that?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: [00:22:00] Or somehow the chlorine dioxide, I don't know how it works, but it, uh, Dr. Manuel Apricio gets into the mechanism of action a little more in episode 79 of my podcast. Uh, but it seems to normalize things.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It seems to balance things out somehow.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Oh, okay.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: I didn't know about balancing effects. That's really interesting, but that makes sense.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So the internet just crashed. Um, so you were saying it's a military.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Is that one of those times that your internet cut out?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It was, that was it. You were saying it was a military. What last thing I heard you say was that, uh, it's been used for military uses. Chlorine dioxide has [00:23:00] the military
SFC Luke DeRienzo: decontaminate of some kind or another. And then when I said that the military shouldn't care about it, um, we lost connection.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: So I don't. That's interesting. It's funny. Um, although apparently natick labs, uh, according to army. mil natick labs did develop, um, a no power method, really a new power method, no power required method of generating chlorine dioxide, which, um, was a bio side helped in the fight against Ebola. That was back in 2014.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: That's interesting. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. Wayne, if I'm not mistaken, I believe chlorine dioxide Dioxide was either developed by or evaluated by NASA back in the eighties. That wouldn't surprise me. I mean, NASA was military for a very long time.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Um,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: believe it still [00:24:00] probably is.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Yeah. Um, actually, yeah. No, that's fair. If you look at the bios of all the famous astronauts, they were all Navy or Air Force pilots primarily, and.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Each branch has an astronaut program. So do you know what NASA said they were using it for?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I know, uh, for some sort of, uh, well, that's where the term, uh, universal antidote came from was when, from, from some of their documents. Oh,
SFC Luke DeRienzo: that's interesting.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Yeah. I don't.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it seems to be a universal antidote, which, by the way, if you're interested in learning more about it, go to the universal antidote. com.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: That's a good
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: site.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Yeah, I went there to learn a lot about it. My cousin did as well. And I think that's where we started looking at the differences between CDS, MMS1, and MMS2.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Um, and I believe there was also a [00:25:00] German video that you sent me from a German doctor. I just don't, uh, think he was making CDS.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yes, and I believe he is not a physician. He's a physicist or chemist, something to that nature.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that he was a doctor doctor. I mean, he was like a doctor of some kind.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: The doctor titles that matter most to doctors when they hear them. So I apologize.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's okay. It's not like Dr. Jill or, you know. Sorry, you can't, you can't enter into that commentary at all. So we'll move right along here.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: That's fair. Or those who identify as doctors, such as a certain software developer who's a pharmaceutical investor. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Hmm. Yeah. Pretend to be doctors on TV [00:26:00] because they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express or some island the night before. I don't know.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Oh, I mean, I just went to Holiday Inn Express yesterday.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: And one of the former capitals of the world for that Lehigh, Utah, uh, and that hotel was surprisingly normal, which is good, but yeah, if it were on a certain island or if it were, let's say 170 years ago, there probably would have been some different activities occurring inside of that hotel out in the open, maybe 150.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Now that I'm here to go after that particular tribe too hard or the other one, I know that's not the purpose of your program.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. Yeah. Things have changed.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Um, but yeah, as far as chlorine dioxide goes. The universal antidote is, uh, does appear to be a good name for it, just because of, I mean, my testimonial is pretty mild, pretty weak.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: It's like, oh, I'm not allergic to seafood anymore. I mean, [00:27:00] Pete and my sister no longer has hypothyroidism. I mean, those are, those are good things. But there are people who have had, uh, When your cousin doesn't have gingivitis. When my cousin doesn't, yeah. The, obviously, uh, versatility of it, or shall we say the universality of its effectiveness is certainly demonstrable in that, just that small sampling of a bunch of people with the same last name.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: But, um, a lot of other people have had a lot more success with it. Such as the, uh, Genesis 2 malaria trials in Africa. Those are pretty good. I forget which country in Africa they went to, I don't remember whether it was Togo or Benin or what, but they, uh, they did some malaria trials with it and worked just fine.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Don't need to take a bunch of doxycycline pills and have some horrible fever dreams and vomit all night. Not saying that doxycycline always does that to people, but [00:28:00] doxycycline can do things like that to people.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, even on this, on this, uh, very show, episode 41, uh, Dr. Todd, I'm sorry, a lawyer, uh, Todd Callender came on and he talked about how he got rid of his bladder cancer and how his father, um, cured his MS by using chlorine dioxide.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Yeah, so those are much more important and much more Significant accomplishments of chlorine dioxide,
SFC Luke DeRienzo: but if you just have little problems Apparently it fixes those too. Sorry to hear that though. I didn't know attorney calendar had bladder cancer. I like He does not anymore. He does not and Did he use the universal antidote in order to cure the bladder cancer or was it in conjunction with other? [00:29:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, he was kind of sticking his head in the sand about the bladder cancer.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: He was taking the chlorine dioxide for a total knee infection that he got, and And by happenstance it also got rid of his bladder cancer. Oh wow, that's fantastic.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Wow. Got an attorney calendar. I'm gonna look him up and see how his cases are coming along.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. I believe he's got one that's still in play.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The one that I wrote the affidavit for.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Oh, okay.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: I remember that one, yeah. That makes sense.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Well, Luke, if
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: you are, if you have any recommendation for anyone that is interested in learning more about it, or even trying it themselves, what do you want to leave us with?
SFC Luke DeRienzo: [00:30:00] Don't take too much too fast. As Sam said, you can have, uh, What kind of reaction is it again? Yeah, and you can sweat profuse. Yeah, and you can sweat profuse. Yeah, and you'll have to drink a decent amount of water when you do it obviously because It's just like any cleanse or any, yeah, it's just like any cleanse in that regard.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: But yeah, you could end up sweating previously or have a urination or any of the side effects that we discussed on the show that it's, it's possible. But, um, The side effects aren't the same as side effects of pharmaceuticals that you might take where they often include death or things very close to or leading to death.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: So that's a huge plus.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And again, I want to make it very clear that I'm not recommending this as treatment for anyone. This is for educational purposes only. Please do your own research and figure out if it's right for you. [00:31:00] Well Luke, thank you so much for sharing your experience, sharing your family's testimonial.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And giving us kind of a, an inside look into what this substance can do for people.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Well, I'm sorry. Aside from my family anecdotes, I don't think I know that much about chlorine dioxide otherwise.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, thank you so much for coming on.
SFC Luke DeRienzo: Oh, sure. I mean, we, we used up almost the entire hour, even with that, uh, computer glitch there. So I'm kind of glad that we gave ourselves enough time.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, in duty uniform of the day. The full armor of God lets all make courage more contagious than fear.[00:32:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA, it's processed in the USA, in fact it's fully vertically integrated.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you. And if we compare what we can buy from Riverbend Ranch, to four other major state companies that sell Bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it. It can be as much as a hundred and eighty four dollars to fifty nine dollars less expensive It's a [00:33:00] great price value, and it's a delicious piece of meat check out mycleanbeef.com/afterhours, that's mycleanbeef.com/afterhours, mycleanbeef.com/afterhours.
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129. Chewing the Fat with Carnivore JT
Today I talk with Carnivore JT. He is big on social medial. Please listen to hear more. Thank you.
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129. Carnivore JT
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Carnivore JT: [00:00:00] The gospel of LDL is going to kill you is a consensus statement. And what a consensus statement is, is a group of people that are experts in the field get together, look over all the data. They come up with all this information and then they go, this is basically a fact. And their fact is LDL causes heart disease.
Carnivore JT: And because of that, you should start taking these lipid lowering drugs. There's seven pharmaceutical companies listed 143 times. You're telling me that I should start listening to what Pfizer paid these people to come up with I'm the one that's weird for questioning it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch. Which always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones. Never been given antibiotics. Never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated. Which means that they own the cow. That gives birth to the calf.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised on their fields. and then taken to their [00:01:00] butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare what we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major steak companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Check out MyCleanBeef.com/AfterHours That's MyCleanBeef.com/AfterHours MyCleanBeef.comslashAfterHours
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed, I've been wearing this t shirt for a few episodes now, I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. [00:02:00] On this podcast, you'll be encouraged to question everything
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Hey, first I want to give a shout out to all of my Patreon subscribers. 2TUF giving 30 a month. We've got the Anonymous Family Donor giving 20. 20 a month. We've got the Plandemic Reprimando tier at 17. 76 a month with Ty, Charles, Tinfoil. Stanley, Dr. Anna, Frank, Brian, Shell, Brantley, Gary, and Sharon.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And don't forget to check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours for better than grass fed, grass finished beef and some of the best beef I've ever tasted in my life. My next guest today is Carnivore JT, or Jason. Now, Jason, you are a subscriber to Carnivore, is that correct?
Carnivore JT: Yes. Yeah, I've been coming up on two years. September will be two years now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, yeah, two years. That's a wonderful time frame to be doing this. What opened up your mind to do this? And does it have anything to do with your profession? Um, are you in the medical field at all? Um, do you think it would, uh, make it easier if you were in the medical field or more difficult to open your mind to eating this way?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thanks
Carnivore JT: Oh man. Uh, [00:04:00] so I am not currently in the medical field. Um, my background is in sports. Uh, and so my, the science end of it, um, my bachelor's is in sports medicine. I have a master's of science and then I spent a number of years coaching, um, baseball collegiately at the division one level in addition to strength, conditioning, personal training, all that jazz.
Carnivore JT: Um, Had a stint of, of amateur bodybuilding in there. So a lot of my background is the nutrition aspect of it. And honestly, I kind of started carnivore because I had kids, got a dad, bod put on a few extra pounds. And I was like, nah, I gotta, I gotta get off of this. And my old tricks were working, but I still, I felt like crap.
Carnivore JT: I was like, man, like. So this is dumb. Like I'm being super strict. I'm not cheating. I'm not having any alcohol. I'm not doing anything and I still feel terrible and by terrible, I mean like I was still bloated all the time. I felt like [00:05:00] lethargic was zero processed food, zero nothing. And so then I gave it up, gained the weight back and then finally had a, an aha moment where I was like, all right, I gotta, I gotta do something else.
Carnivore JT: I came across carnivore. I started on the animal based, which is carnivore plus basically fruits and started that instantly felt better. And from a, from a physiological standpoint, I can understand it. Never thought of it, but I can understand it. And so I was like, okay, I can start doing this. I really did it haphazardly for about three months and I got really good results.
Carnivore JT: And I was like, okay, I'm going to buckle down a little bit more. And that was beginning of 23 and I've. Kind of buckled down ever since I've slowly gotten stricter and stricter and gotten rid of the animal based aspect. And so now I'm strict carnivore and it's honestly I do because I feel better. Um, it's helped a number of [00:06:00] not very serious medical conditions, like, you know, some psoriasis issues.
Carnivore JT: Um, even though it doesn't appear. So, like, some of my, my balding stopped, had a little bit of hair regrowth, just just a number of things. Um, I started sleeping better. And again, nothing crazy. Like I, I can share crazy stories from people who have, have had huge successes, but mine was just a whole bunch of little things that it just felt better.
Carnivore JT: And you know, people will often tell me, why are you doing this? Or why would you be so restrictive or it's not sustainable? And I'm like, cause honestly, I feel better. I could, I could go back to eating whatever I want. As long as I had periods of like, you know, going back to strict, you know, not eating junk food.
Carnivore JT: I could eat whatever I want, but I don't feel as good. So I don't want to, I mean, that's. I feel like that's the definition of sustainable to me.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How does life get better? And life gets better in so many ways when you eat this [00:07:00] way,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: 100%. So when you, when you went from eating, probably most people would say, Hey, I was eating pretty clean. And then you went to, uh, this animal base where it's like fruit and meat, meats and sweets as some people say, um, what did you cut out specifically? I just want to hear you say it so that everyone can understand why you're not eating vegetables, you know, so that they get past that moment.
Carnivore JT: That was honestly it. So the. The last little diet run I did before I started animal based was whole 30. Um, I did that for 90 days and for anybody who doesn't know whole 30, it's literally just whole foods. Um, which is what most people would think of clean eating. And the biggest difference is I replaced the lean meats, uh, chicken, ground Turkey, that, um, with higher, higher fat content beef.
Carnivore JT: And then, [00:08:00] uh, I still, you know, I eat some other meats, but beef is the majority of what I and then I cut the vegetables out and that's the one that shocks people. They're like, you don't eat vegetables. I'm like, no, I legit feel a hundred times better by not eating vegetables. And I will go round and round with people all day long.
Carnivore JT: But man, I'm telling you, when people start cutting out vegetables, they instantly feel better. Like it's not something that six months down the road, I'm going to feel better. Uh, you know, after my body adjust, no, it's like the same day that I cut vegetables out, I started feeling better. And I was like, I'm not ever doing this again.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, people are shocked when I say, Oh, I haven't had a vegetable in four years. They're like, What? But my mom always said I had to eat them. Well, who else teaches you need to eat vegetables? The government.
Carnivore JT: The government.[00:09:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They also tell you you should eat all the grains. Interesting, huh?
Carnivore JT: Yeah, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm currently, so that's the other thing, man. When you start eating this way, you basically red pill yourself. Like you start looking into other aspects. You're like, okay. So they tell me I shouldn't eat red meat, but I feel better eating red meat.
Carnivore JT: They tell me I should eat vegetables, but I feel better without eating vegetables. And then you just go on and on and on. And then you start getting into nutritional studies and You know, you start looking into, I don't even know if you can call it a conspiracy. I'm pretty sure it's a proven fact of back in the sixties when they paid off scientists to lie about saturated fat in favor of sugar.
Carnivore JT: It's like, no, it's, you know, they told everybody saturated fats, the culprit and sugar is not a problem. And then you just realize that there's just this whole trail. Then you go, okay, well, what exactly can I look at? And it culminates with, um, I did this video [00:10:00] on, on LDL and I went crazy. Um, it's about to hit a million views on, on Instagram right now.
Carnivore JT: Wow. And there are hundreds of people in the comments defending big pharmaceutical companies like it for anybody who hasn't seen the video. It's the most like the gospel of LDL is going to kill you is a consensus statement. It's the European atherosclerosis society. And what a consensus statement is, is a group of people that are experts in the field get together, they look over all the data, they come up with all this information, and then they go, this is basically a fact and their fact is LDL causes heart disease.
Carnivore JT: And because of that, you should. Start taking these lipid lowering drugs and all I literally did was somebody cited that I went down to the conflicts of interest statement And I was like, mmm, there's seven pharmaceutical companies listed 143 times and it's this this this this That's literally the entire video [00:11:00] and the number of people who come in and go but it's the study wrong All right.
Carnivore JT: Are you suggesting that it's, that's not good science? And I'm like, wait, what you're telling me that I should start listening to what Pfizer paid these people to come up with. And I'm the one that's weird for questioning it. And just because Pfizer had a hand in financially contributing to the people whose opinion favored them the most, why does that make the data wrong?
Carnivore JT: I'm like, wow, can't be serious. Right? Like you, you literally cannot tell me And then people will just will justify it any which way. And I'm like, okay, like at some point. And then I did a follow up video and I'm like, cool. These seven companies have paid out 28 billion in fines since 2000 because, you know, they're, they care about health
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: and they're doing good things for humanity.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. Right. That's, that's all they're here for to help us. It doesn't matter if stuff is, you know, experimental or they pay people to skew data [00:12:00] or, you know, whatever it is, it's, we should trust them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I found this article from 2012 written by the American heart association saying that if we, 2012, if we lower LDL, we increase the risk of a fib atrial fibrillation.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, how do you keep people going to the cardiologist? Well, you give them all a fib with the medication that you're required by insurance to give, to lower their risk of, of heart attacks and strokes. Yeah.
Carnivore JT: And, and what, what they've done basically is they, they came up with this arbitrary number. They're like, you know what?
Carnivore JT: A hundred and 30, uh, I forget what the actual is 99 units
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: for LDL.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. I forget what the units of measurement are for LDL. Um, they're like 130. That's the number. If you are above that, we got to get you below it. And then they come back and go, you know what? I think a hundred. And then other doctors goes, you know what, we should really try to get everybody under [00:13:00] 70.
Carnivore JT: And then your doctors come out and goes, This is what they're working on right now. And I don't think people understand they're working on gene altering technology to try to get people to zero. They want people to get to as close to an LDL of zero as possible, which is also mind blowing because LDL is not actually cholesterol.
Carnivore JT: LDL is a lipoprotein that carries cholesterol through your bloodstream. And so it's, it's just like, it's, it's no different than the American diabetic association. Okay. putting added sugar recipes on their websites. And like, it's just, at some point you have to like, stop looking at studies and go, okay, let's just think about this a little bit.
Carnivore JT: And does this make sense whatsoever? I
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: mean, it's, it's just you explaining that it's almost like people trying to outdo each other with the minimum wage, you know, it's, oh, well, let's do 10, 10 an hour. Let's do 15. I can, I can call for 50. Let's do 50 an [00:14:00] hour. Let's get zero LDL. People will die the moment they're born.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it's,
Carnivore JT: it's one of those things that people I've realized with all the access to information, like everybody wants to live their life based on a study, right? People don't want to do carnivore because they'll go show me the longterm study. I'm like, why do I need a longterm study? And this, this is my, or, or they'll cite, uh, Sean Baker who goes, no, there are no longterm studies.
Carnivore JT: And you know what? Maybe it will kill me early and people are like, what am I going to find you a study that says everything I can find you a study that drink and Coke raises your testosterone. It's in mice, but that doesn't matter. Right. Or I can find you, I can find you a study on anything and my view on it.
Carnivore JT: And for anybody listening and what I tell everybody and I don't give medical advice. And if you listen to me for medical advice, that's your own fault. But if I can eat a certain way. And feel better. [00:15:00] And all of these issues start to resolve themselves, like inflammatory issues start to be resolved. And all of these markers go up, literally every single marker goes up.
Carnivore JT: But then you tell me that there's this one arbitrary number that you made up and that's what's going to kill me. And I'm like, okay, our bodies are a little bit smarter than that. Like I'm, I'm not buying it. That. Your body's going to go, yes, this is good. This is good. This is good. This is good. Just kidding.
Carnivore JT: That's going to kill you.
Carnivore JT: Which by the way, for anyone who doesn't know, LDL is not actually a number that's tested. Okay. It's derived from the Friedwald equation based on other things that they test, which is also funny because in certain situations. such as high HDL and low triglycerides, you can get a skewed Friedwald equation, but they don't actually test for it.
Carnivore JT: They can, [00:16:00] but it's a much more invasive process and they don't typically do blood tests for it. They just derive it from an equation.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's interesting. I didn't know that. I probably should have known that.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. Like people are like, I'm going to test for it. And you're like, well, I mean, you're kind of going to test for it, but you're going to come up with an equation for it. But yeah, like, so like, that's the LDL thing for me.
Carnivore JT: Um, again, do I, do I think you should completely disregard it? No. But in the absence of like literally every other metabolic marker, it's something that you can go, okay, like I'll look at it, but should I jump on a medication for it? Like, no, I don't know. Now go look into the side effects of statins and studies that are showing people are getting dementia from it.
Carnivore JT: And you're like, at some point we got to stop trying to use drugs for everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And literally like just live how you're intended to, which they then come back [00:17:00] with. But our ancestors lived to 35. I'm like, yeah, because they died from paper cuts. Like, like you literally died from infections.
Carnivore JT: What everybody died from, because there was no penicillin, there's no antibiotics. Everybody literally died. The moment they got hurt.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right. And I think that's the long term study. That is the 10, 000 year study to show that it worked is that. They live long enough for us to live here today to start eating garbage to destroy our health.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. Which I mean, that's like, and then that's the next thing people literally 90 percent of what I do is try and combat people talking about how eating processed food is okay.
Carnivore JT: Or it's healthy or that in literally industrial seed oils, which were literally designed as engine lubricant. That's the biggest scam of the century is how Canada got us to eat canola oil. And you're telling me that's cardio protective. There are doctors with a platform on social media that tell you [00:18:00] that seed oils are cardio protective.
Carnivore JT: I'm like, you've let it like go watch a video on how seed oils are made. There's a byproduct. They bleach it. There's bleaching clay that they use and the bleaching clay that's leftover has to be put in a landfill because it's too toxic to do anything with, but it's good for us.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But there was a thing that they said that Oreos lower LDL. As much as statins and, and that should make you go, Hmm, why is my doctor either not prescribing me Oreos or maybe my LDL shouldn't be lowered?
Carnivore JT: Yeah, that's a fascinating one. So I, I know Nick and I've talked to him, uh, multiple times about it. And for anybody who hasn't seen it, uh, Nick Norwitz is what you would call a lean mass hyper responder.
Carnivore JT: So he has is very lean and has very high. LDL. And so what he did is he ran a trial and said, okay, [00:19:00] I am hypothesizing that I can lower my LDL more by eating. I think it was like 12 Oreos a day. Don't quote me on it. That's it's in the study. I can lower it more over a couple of weeks with Oreos than I can with statins.
Carnivore JT: And he did. And he lowered his LDL significantly more eating Oreos as the only thing that he changed in his diet. And it goes to his lipid energy model, which I'm not. I don't have a hundred percent grasp on it, but yeah, that, that brings the statement. Okay. You're telling me that I can lower this arbitrary number that's going to kill me.
Carnivore JT: And you're telling me that every, like they'll come up with the statistics for every 10 points that it drops, you lower your risk of heart disease by 15%. Like it's just these crazy numbers and you go, okay, so what you're telling me is that eating Oreos is beneficial for this and thus Oreos is going to reduce my risk of heart disease.
Carnivore JT: Thanks. Like, do you realize how absurd that is? [00:20:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's absolutely absurd. And, you know, I've actually written a prescription for beer, but I'll never write a prescription for Oreos. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And for all the, for all the naysayers out there, there's a guy in ICU who was going through withdrawals and he's like, just give me a beer. And so in, in those situations, you do give them back the medication they've been taking for 20 years and all of a sudden their dementia, uh, or their, their DTs and all that go away within minutes.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Once you get them back on the medication that they've been on for years.
Carnivore JT: That's crazy. I didn't know you could actually prescribe beer.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. It was a cheap stuff. It was a tall boy to a day. Yeah. That's awesome.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But the moral of that story is, don't prescribe beer, just don't drink that much every day to where you become, your brain becomes dependent on that medication to slow it down.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. That's, that's nuts. But I mean, that's like, that's the same thing. So that's, that's like you taking that and going, you know what?
Carnivore JT: I think we should give dementia patients [00:21:00] beer. You're like, wait, what? That doesn't make sense. Literally everybody would go, well, that doesn't make sense. And you're like, but that's what the data is. Like I literally have like a documented and equals one study that it works. So why shouldn't we? And then all of a sudden people with common sense come in, they're like, Oh, we'll see that doesn't make sense.
Carnivore JT: I'm like, okay, can we apply that to the rest of nutrition, please? Just one time.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So what opened your mind to it? Like, what doctor did you start following early on, or, or what studies, or was it books, or did you just, like, brute force on your own, figure it out, or how, how did that happen? How would I open someone else's mind that I want to open? That's what I'm trying to figure out, because that is the biggest thing, is eat only meat and get healthy, and we're going against people like The Who, who put red meat, cigarettes, and uranium in the same category of carcinogen.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I mean, that's absurd!
Carnivore JT: Yeah, I mean, that's so Paul Saladino. Uh, he used [00:22:00] to be carnivore MD and then has switched, changed his stance to what you would consider animal based. Um, he gets a lot of hate, which the thing you have to realize about Saladino is Saladino lives a life that nobody else lives. Right.
Carnivore JT: He's independently wealthy. He lives in Costa Rica. He has access to literally the people that picked the fruit off of the tree two hours ago and he spends his days surfing and literally doing whatever he wants. And so when you're living that kind of lifestyle, you can get away with certain things that the average person can't.
Carnivore JT: And so he is a very big proponent of fruit, um, and raw honey, which I'm not against. I'm not anti fruit or raw honey. I just feel better when I'm not eating it. That's literally why I don't. So that's how I got, um, exposed to it. My wife sent it to me and she's like, all right, so there's this, he's a little kooky, a little [00:23:00] weird, which he is.
Carnivore JT: I'll give it to him. Like that's part of like his allure, right? He's this polarizing figure that puts eggs in his hair and all of this stuff. And you're like, that's kind of weird, but I'm, I'm intrigued. So I'm going to follow along and see what happens. And that's, that's when I started. And I'm like, okay, like I can understand the biology of, of plants having.
Carnivore JT: You know, plant defense chemicals and all this kind of stuff like that. That makes sense. Like I, I took a bunch of biology in college, um, which actually that's not a debated point. Like you can actually go and read plenty of studies where they identify. Yes, they have plant defense chemicals, but how they justify it is they, they view it as like working out.
Carnivore JT: Right. So working out puts stress on your muscles. It breaks down muscles and then your body rebuilt. They're like, that's what plant defense chemicals do. They force your body to work and get rid of them and move through it. And I'm like, I kind of see it, but then you can't tell me I'm weird for saying they have plant defense chemicals when that's literally what you just [00:24:00] said.
Carnivore JT: Like everybody looks at you and they're like, Oh, plant defense chemicals. And I'm like, that's literally what everybody says. They just have a different view on whether it's good or bad. And so I was like, okay, like anything to not be bloated all the time. And so I started, that's literally all I took from him was don't eat vegetables.
Carnivore JT: So I stopped eating vegetables and I was like, this is the best thing in the world. And so I did that for about a year. And then that's when I really started getting a little more red pilled and got a little more deeper into it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. I love Anthony Chafee. Dr. Anthony Chafee really gets into the plant defense. I mean, he, he deep dives into that stuff and it's, it's shocking. I mean, when I lived in Alaska, there was these, this phenomenon with the rabbit population that would go up and down. And as the rat population went up, there'd be more rabbits eating more plants.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I always thought it was the predators go up and they push the population down when in fact it's the plants send a chemical to other plants that they've [00:25:00] been able to measure how it propagates. And it causes the female rabbits to, uh, uh, Abort their fetus. Now that should terrify everybody here because if they can cause a female to abort its female, its fetus, how, how do we know that can't affect humans?
Carnivore JT: Yeah. I mean, that's, and when I started looking, I'm like, okay, what are the benefits of plants, mostly vegetables, right? I'm mostly talking about vegetables and I'm like, okay, so there's some vitamins, but not like a lot, like at the end of the day, if I really, really was worried about it, I can take a pill for that.
Carnivore JT: And then fiber. It's literally all you're getting from plants and people like, Oh, well, you know, phytonutrients and antioxidants. And I'm like, yeah, I can get plenty of that and benefits of them's a little overstated. So like, okay, so fiber, once I removed [00:26:00] fiber, everything was better. Like, and the one I've heard is fiber, which, okay, it blows me.
Carnivore JT: The definition of fiber is the indigestible part of a plant. Okay. That that's red flag. That's number one. What you're telling me is. In order to be healthy, I need to consume this piece of a plant that by definition I can't digest. Okay. And then, you know, there's the fermenting and the gut microbiome and the bacteria and like, okay, maybe, but the one that really gets me is you need fiber to scrub your colon.
Carnivore JT: And I'm like, you're basically telling me I need to like swallow a scrub daddy so that my colon gets cleaned out. Like that's literally the most absurd thing I've ever heard. And if I don't, I'm going to get cancer. Like what?
Carnivore JT: Yeah. And it's yeah. And so then you, you go look at research and this is, this is where I've kind of found my niche [00:27:00] with social media is just like ripping to shreds these research studies, because I've realized that 95 percent of nutrition studies are all just absolute terrible. Like they're, they're terrible.
Carnivore JT: They're horrible. And I started with a fiber study because I can eat fiber for every seven grams of fiber you eat. Your risk of heart disease goes down by 9%. I'll say, okay, that's like a wild claim. How on earth can you correlate that? And sure enough, they go through and they collect with FFQs. And for anybody that doesn't know what FFQ is, it's a food frequency questionnaire, which is how 99.
Carnivore JT: 9 percent of all nutritional studies get their information. And it's literally, you can equate it. To pollsters getting information for the presidential election, right now you can email, but in the past it was, you mailed out this questionnaire could be anywhere from 35 questions to 200 questions. And it starts with this and they go, okay, in the last 12 months, have you [00:28:00] eaten meat?
Carnivore JT: You go? Yes. Okay. Keep going. Have you, how many times have in the. Last 12 months. Have you had a sandwich with steak in it? I don't know, like four times. Okay. On a weekly basis How many times do you eat a main dish with meat in it and it can include casseroles and stews and pot pies? Okay, and then it's like how many times have you had pizza with meat on it or a mixed dish like lasagna or pasta?
Carnivore JT: And all of those Get classified and you're like, okay, like, that's like, all right. And then they compile this data and go, we found that the people who ate 50 grams or less did this and you're like, how can we equate that? Like you literally just asked me if I had pizza and that's. That's a red meat. Like in some studies, that's considered red meat.
Carnivore JT: And you like what? And then they come up with these very specific dosages and these very specific [00:29:00] risk estimates. And in the study, they'll say, you know, we can't prove it because it's an observational study, but it's our hypothesis. And I know that there's this margin of error. So don't focus on the risk estimate, but CNN is going to run an article that says eat more fiber.
Carnivore JT: You're going to die. And then everybody believes it. Everybody cites it. Everybody treats it as gospel. And then you go, what are we doing here? Like, this is the most absurd like correlation is causation thing I've ever seen.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's incredible. Isn't it? That they can say, Oh, you ate some pizza and some lasagna and that counts as red meat. So don't eat red meat.
Carnivore JT: That's literally what it is. That's what started. This was the Harvard study on red meat and diabetes. And somebody came out and they're like, Wait a minute. Let's take a look at this.
Carnivore JT: And they pulled up the FFQ that they used and sandwiches, [00:30:00] lasagna, pizza, mixed dish, pastas, hot dogs, hamburgers. Like, it doesn't matter whether it's you made a patty or you went to McDonald's. All of those fell under the umbrella of red meat. And they're like, we have found That people that eat more of this get, I'm like, well, no shit.
Carnivore JT: Like you go find the person that goes to McDonald's, eats a two ounce patty, but then eats all the other garbage with it. And of course they're going to get diabetes. Like you, you can't be shocked that that's the result, but instead you come back and tell me that it's based on red meat.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right. Cause they eat that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They're, they're eating a potato doused in bad oils. They're not eating meat.
Carnivore JT: Which not only bad oils, but it's been fried over and over and over and over again. And there's numerous studies showing that the more often you heat up and then cool down and then heat up these seed oils, the worse it gets, but it's.
Carnivore JT: [00:31:00] The red meat that's causing what
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: do you get into the statistics at all and how those can easily be manipulated if you know how to massage the numbers in the way that you want them to.
Carnivore JT: Uh, so a little bit, um, I got into a little bit with the LDL study. Um, so I have a little bit of background in, in statistics. As far as I've taken, I took a couple of statistic classes in college, but what people, people think it's impossible to they're like, well, it's data.
Carnivore JT: You can't do anything with it. I'm like, no. If I adjust my endpoints, right? So if I adjust the points of which I collect my data, I can now, because I can observe it in a trend, right? I can now do a cutoff and get it to say something that's not what it is. Um, the LDL one is a huge one. They, the end point for their graph, cause you'll see this graph.
Carnivore JT: Everybody will do this linear causation between LDL and heart disease. [00:32:00] And the end point for their data was a major cardiac event, which seems reasonable, you know, heart attack, stroke, something like that. But if you take that same data and replot it for an atherosclerotic cardiovascular death, then all of a sudden it's a, a scatterplot and it's all over the place.
Carnivore JT: And then you go, well. Okay. So maybe it's possibly linear with heart disease, but it's definitely not linear with dying from heart disease. And what's more important, like 75 percent of people that have a heart attack, have LDL within the normal range. So high LDL is not going to kill me, but it's going to give me a heart attack.
Carnivore JT: But most people that have a heart attack don't have high LDL or what exactly are you telling me is going to happen if I have high LDL and [00:33:00] most times I'm like, well, it's going to kill you. I'm like, okay, then why didn't you plot that? Because it doesn't look as good and that that's a manipulation of data is choosing my endpoints, choosing my start points, choosing what studies I keep, choosing what studies I exclude.
Carnivore JT: And all by that, I can get a result that looks better than What other
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: things have you, uh, started questioning that's really made you question even more or kind of dig in places that you never thought you should even need to dig in
Carnivore JT: literally everything now,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: like,
Carnivore JT: like, I swear. I'm like, I'm the weird dude. That's going to hide out in the back acre of a 40 acre homestead.
Carnivore JT: Like, I'm going to become one of those dudes on like, shooter. Like, I'm going to become the Mark Wahlberg where he lives in the middle of Montana and doesn't have any contact with the outside world. Uh, [00:34:00] Because now it's all of it. Like I'm realizing that literally any recommendation that the government or a government organization, yes, the who is a government organization.
Carnivore JT: I don't care what you say. Any recommendation is based on very sketchy information. Like, or it's a collection of a couple of studies. And then every study that shows the opposite is disregarded. And so then it's like, okay, RDA has come into question, recommended dietary allowances, like how much vitamin C you're supposed to get, how much vitamin D, like, and then you go, okay, that's, they kind of came up with this arbitrary number that said, I think this is going to work for the majority of people who are semi healthy.
Carnivore JT: Let's come up with this number. And now everybody bases that off of like, oh, well, you've got, you've got to get more. Vitamin C. Why? Because you're going to get scurvy. Come on, no like, affluent person gets scurvy. Why? Well, because they eat fruits and vegetables. No, that's not it. Like, scurvy is [00:35:00] based on sailors in the 1800s who had rotting fruit and salt dried processed food.
Carnivore JT: And they found that if they gave them fresh food, they would not die. Have scurvy anymore. And so then people are like, gosh, we have to have vitamin C. Okay. Like it's just on and on and on and on. And, and literally everything. And then people turn it, they're like, Oh, you just got to question everything. And you find a holes with anything.
Carnivore JT: And I'm like, yeah, I do. I don't literally don't trust any study. I don't care if it's a pro carnivore study. There was a study that came out that said all the other studies sucked on red meat. Yeah. That guy had ties to the meat industry. I don't really trust that one either. I don't trust any of them.
Carnivore JT: Other people don't understand. I don't trust any of these studies, but I think we should be smart enough to know that how your body reacts to how you eat is probably a pretty good indication of long term health.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I think it's great. I think that's amazing. You found an article that corresponds with the way you [00:36:00] think, but you still said, no, that's, that's garbage.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm going to look into it. And it was garbage.
Carnivore JT: Yeah, it's. You know, and it's easy to cherry pick studies. It is. You know, especially when there's not a whole lot on your side, but at the end of the day, it's a lot easier just to be like, maybe we should all just realize that all these studies suck. Like the latest one that it might not even make it to the study.
Carnivore JT: It hasn't been peer reviewed yet, but it was presented. It's been in articles. It's headlined everywhere that intermittent fasting leads 91 percent higher chance of heart disease. Where on earth can you draw that? I don't even need to read the study. That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. You're telling me that by going a couple extra hours of not eating, I'm gonna get heart disease and not just a little bit 91%.
Carnivore JT: Like you're telling me that I have the same chance of living by running in traffic as I do intermittent [00:37:00] fasting. Like what? You've got to be kidding me. And granted, most people are like, yeah, there's problems with the study. I'm like, no kidding. Why do you even need to look at it? Are you telling me you legit have to look at this study to tell me that this is ridiculous?
Carnivore JT: I
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: mean, with that, with that logic, no human would have survived to get to us here today, because I'm sure they went a couple of days in between meals when you have to chase down your next meal.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. That's, that's the other one. People it's always the life expectancy too. It again leads me back. Like, I don't, I don't care what your views on or on how we got here.
Carnivore JT: Cause I can play this both ways. You can believe that we were created or you can believe that we evolved, but either way, there's no way we're the only species in the history of this planet that has been doing food wrong for their entire existence. Like, can you imagine if a hundred years from now, a lion all of a sudden was like, guys, we have not been meant to eat gazelles.
Carnivore JT: [00:38:00] We're in trouble. We should be living till we're 50, not 20. And then they start. Eating ground squirrels. It's like, no, like literally no other species of anything is as confused about what we're supposed to eat as we are.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right. And not just what we're to eat, but just as confused as we are, whether it be what's in our pants or in our genome or, um, what the economy is or what we should be shoving into our bodies or a kid's bodies.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You know, I mean, the list goes on and on and on.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What other studies have you found that, that just make you scoff at, at the investigators really, and if you do like you did with the first one, you dive into who the investigators are. You can usually see that they have some sort of, um, bias and it's usually not subtle.
Carnivore JT: Yeah, like, so I just did one [00:39:00] and it's, again, it's this hit it's social media.
Carnivore JT: Like social media is to blame, right? It's a hundred percent social media. What can I make? That's a headline that's grabbing. And gets people's attention because nobody actually looks at anything anyway. Right? We still have people that don't know how to read a new trip, like nutrition facts on the back of a box.
Carnivore JT: Like, they don't understand what it is. And it's the most in plain sight thing ever. Um, like you have little tricks like. They make calories bigger and then make everything else smaller so that you just focus on the calories and you don't worry about anything else that's in it. The ingredients are all smaller listed than, but this influencer was like, drinking diet Coke helps you lose weight better than drinking water.
Carnivore JT: And I was like, you've got shit in me. Of course they don't like to study, but I'm like, okay, let's, let's go, let's go look at it. And so I found it and it was a 52 week [00:40:00] study. And they said that the weight loss was statistically significant. However, it was not clinically significant because in order to be clinically significant, you have to have more than a 1.
Carnivore JT: 5 kilogram. change in body weight between the two groups, which they didn't over the course of an entire year. So I'm like, okay, like, so first of all, we're talking about less than three pound difference between two groups over the course of a year. And then you realize that there was no like dietary information.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. Um, there was no like active, they gave people coaching on how to lower their calories, but there was no control over anything. And the premise of it was two servings of water for one group and two servings of non nutritive sweetened beverages, just Diet Coke for the other group. And they tracked their weight loss.
Carnivore JT: I was like, you gotta be kidding me. Like, and guess [00:41:00] who funded the study? The American beverage association. And one of the conflicts of interest was the international sweetener association. And I was like, how was there? There's an international sweetener association. Like what the, like I've always joked that it's like big sugar and big meat, but no, it's literally like we are the international sweetener association.
Carnivore JT: I was like, you've got to You gotta be joking me right now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Did you ever see, um, either was it Forks Over Knives or You Are What You Eat?
Carnivore JT: I have never watched either of them because
Carnivore JT: I've thought about doing like a video of me pretending to watch it to piss vegans off, but like vegans. So a little short story on vegans, vegans are how I got going on, on Twitter. Um, Twitter was the first platform that kind of went off for me and I got up, I just railing on vegans nonstop. [00:42:00] And so for a while I was like, you know what?
Carnivore JT: I was like, you know, I'm going to do a video of pretending that I'm going to watch. I think dominion's the most popular one for them. I don't even know. It's about some vegan propaganda. It's like, I'm going to pretend like I'm watching it and then finish the video with me eating a steak while I'm pretending to watch it.
Carnivore JT: Cause let's be honest. I'm not spending longer than two minutes actually. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah.
Carnivore JT: Um, the latest one was not game changers. Um, the twin study, I forget what it's called. Is that what you are? Yeah. So that one, like I saw the study before it came out and they highlighted the couple points like LDL got better for the vegan group, but HDL got better for the other group.
Carnivore JT: Triglycerides got better for the other group. The vegans lost weight, but they also ate fewer [00:43:00] calories. Yeah. They also lost muscle mass and vegans equate that to the fact that I did hear this one while the other set of twins that were doing the omnivores diet, just like to work out more. I was like, you're right.
Carnivore JT: You've got to be kidding me. And then the fact that the vegans ate fewer calories was because they were more satiated eating the vegan diet. Then the omnivores, I'm like, literally nobody's ever been satiated eating plants a day in their life. Like that's a non existent term. And then, and then you went in and you realized that the people that funded it are also the people that funded game changers.
Carnivore JT: And the doctor has been getting paid by beyond meat. And you're like at some point, and they had, they had this documentary already filmed and ready to go. Before the study even came out. Wow. And I'm like, come on, like, you've got to, at some point you [00:44:00] have to look at it and go. Um, maybe something fishy is going on, but now people, if you're a vegan, that's gospel.
Carnivore JT: That's proof that's two identical twins and the vegans did better. And it's just,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: it's a better study would have been a real head to head study would have been veganism versus carnivorism because I, I watched that unfortunately, and they gave the omnivores like this sausage. And I, A sausage is typically known for having junk in it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And like, you don't know what oils are in there. You don't know if they packed the omnivores more with seed and not oils and processed oils. Um, turkey, turkey sausage. I mean, like that's, that's not the same as beef.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. And so actually, and here's where it is and here's how, you know, that this is an issue.
Carnivore JT: We've done studies on everything. Like, and so now they're playing the ethical card and I've, at some point I'll do a video to this one, but there is [00:45:00] a, a vegan doctor and they're talking about it. They're like the longterm studies on carnivore, why are there no longterm studies? And the doctor goes, because we've decided that based on everything that we know, it would be unethical to get a group of people and feed them that diet over any length of time.
Carnivore JT: yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, if that is not the biggest cop out, how do you think you guys did studies on smoking or alcohol? Or you'll put anybody in a metabolic ward and pump them full of anything, but you will not do it with me because you know. That if it came back, that meat was even slightly more healthy than vegan, literally the entire world would crumble.
Carnivore JT: Like, can you imagine the backlash from everything from 99 percent of the store, 99 percent of the grocery store? Everybody would go, wait a minute. This is [00:46:00] actually. could be better. Like people would just go absolutely nuts.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I recently got sent this article that says that, um, 12 percent of the United States is consuming. Uh, I want to say it's like 90 percent of the beef in America. And I want to tell you, I'm proud to be part of the 12 percent with you.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. Like what's also funny is people have paired this up. Like even Sean Baker did this.
Carnivore JT: Come on, bro. Like this is a little bit of a stretch. Yeah. Uh, it pairs up nicely to the fact that a. Uh, researcher in Utah came out with a study that said 88 percent of the U. S. population is metabolically sick. And so then people are like, 88 percent are sick, 12 percent eat beef. Hmm. Is there interesting?
Carnivore JT: And then everybody goes, Oh my God, you can't do that. And I'm like, yeah, you guys do that all the time. [00:47:00] So stop.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. You can't do it, but, but it's interesting. Yes. And I've had patients. I had a patient, I had one patient go from. Having insulin to, uh, he required 80 units of insulin to keep his sugars under control.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: He would take 80 units every single day. He started carnivore, and in the first week he went down to 10 units. And recently I've had a patient who was on 30 units of insulin, and, and metformin, and two blood pressure pills. He started on a Sunday, he saw me 5, Days later, and he was, he had his blood pressure under control, not taking his pills.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: His sugar was under control, not taking any insulin nor metformin. He stopped everything in five days just by eating meat. And that like,
Carnivore JT: that's what I'm saying. And everybody goes, it's anecdotal. I'm like, okay, we'll do a study on it. Well, no. Well, why don't you guys do a study? Who's going to fund it? Who, who do you think I work for?
Carnivore JT: Like everybody's like, Oh, [00:48:00] big beef is sending you to big beef. Doesn't need to do any studies. They're doing just fine. Like big beef is also part of the problem. Like they're not the solution. Let's be real here. And so it's like, there's no money. This doesn't benefit anybody except for the U S population.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. If this comes out to be true. And so why, why would anybody fund a study? You don't just get random money from random people. You'd have to like start a go fund me. And then everybody would question the funding because it came from people that want this to succeed. So it's like, yeah, it's it. I I've talked to.
Carnivore JT: So many people who have gotten off medication by eating this way and it's everything it's everything from blood pressure medication to insulin to antidepressants to, you know, thyroid medication to IBS medication to lifelong. You know, Parkinson's medication to just all of this stuff, antibiotics, [00:49:00] the list goes on and on and on and on and on.
Carnivore JT: And the only thing anybody says that's anecdotal, I'm like, okay, cool. If I'm talking to somebody and it works for them and it's only anecdotal, they're going to be pretty happy. They're not going to give a shit if there's document that a hundred thousand people also had success because at the end of the day, it's fitness and life and nutrition is N equals one.
Carnivore JT: That's literally the only thing that matters. And so if it works for everybody, but there's no documented study. don't care.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Have you run across the people that say, well, I know my body and I, I've got to have my vegetables.
Carnivore JT: Oh yeah. Um, and my, and I've talked to a bunch of people in the, the difference is I don't think people actually understand how they feel.
Carnivore JT: Um, there's people like, I'm not bloated and I'm like, it doesn't matter. I'm willing to bet you're wrong. And you just don't know it. Like we just, that's normal. Like Thanksgiving dinner, I'm going to [00:50:00] wear my stretchy pants to Thanksgiving dinner because after I eat, I'm like, no, that's not normal. It does not matter how much food you eat.
Carnivore JT: I can eat a two pound ribeye right now and not be bloated. Like it is not the amount of food that you're eating that should make you bloated. It's what you're eating and nobody, nobody can wrap their head around it. And it's not, it's literally not until you give stuff up and you realize that you were bloated all the time.
Carnivore JT: Like it's, I go back to the bodybuilding days and it's a joke in the fitness community in general. You wake up first thing in the morning, you snap your progress pictures cause that's the leanest you're going to be all day. And the moment you even sniff water. You add five pounds and then all of a sudden you walk around like a balloon the rest of the day, hoping that you wake up the next morning feeling lean.
Carnivore JT: And so it's just, people don't understand. They don't understand that. Like I was a college athlete. I'm missing the majority of the meniscus in both my knees. [00:51:00] Um, I've been rolling out of bed since I was eight. 19 years old feeling like I got hit by a train. I played weekend double headers and roll out Monday morning and be like, gosh, like I literally feel like I got hit by a bus.
Carnivore JT: And then you roll into the training, you know, room and then you get your treatment and then you roll out and you hope that you don't hurt too bad for the next day. And I, I don't have issues anymore. Like I don't have problems with my knees. I don't have the old, like, Oh man, I got to like bend over or, you know, I have chronic shoulder problems.
Carnivore JT: I've had four surgeries. Before I got out of college and. You know, most of them are probably would indicate that I'm going to have, uh, arthritic shoulders and arthritic knees and, you know, all kinds of these issues. And I still may, like, I'm not saying I'm cured or anything, but I don't feel old. Like I don't, I feel better than when I rolled out of bed when I was 25 years old, like everything hurt when I was 25 people [00:52:00] would be like, Oh, I feel like I'm getting old.
Carnivore JT: Be like, I felt like I'm getting old since. I was 15 years old. Like this is not new for me. And now I don't, I don't have chronic inflammation. Like you shouldn't have chronic inflammation. You should be able to live normal. And if something catches up to you, it catches up to you, but we shouldn't have this every day.
Carnivore JT: I'm tired every day. I need caffeine all day long. I need, You know, a nap after I eat, I'm dragging, I get home and have no motivation. And it's just, just try the diet. Like everybody thinks we're selling something. I don't sell coaching. I don't sell anything. I sell apparel because I think it's funny. Like I have a cookbook.
Carnivore JT: If you want to, you know, spice it up a little bit, literally and figuratively, but I don't, I don't need to sell the diet. I just want people to try it like that. That's my pitch. Like try it for 30 days, cut out processed foods, cut out vegetables. If you want to eat some fruit, eat some [00:53:00] fruit, just try it for 30 days.
Carnivore JT: Like literally what is the worst that could possibly happen? Like maybe you have the keto flu for a week and you get constipated and you're like, this is dumb and I never do it again. Or you can be like the thousands and thousands of people that go, I felt really good, really good. And I'm like, Hmm, maybe that tells you something.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I had a patient once who was, he, he's, he's overweight. He's got a lot of weight to lose, but he started carnivore and he's been doing good at it. And he went to his family's, family's house, they made him some eggs in margarine. But he didn't want to be rude. So he didn't say anything. And within three bites, his knee pain, his ex Extreme knee pain came back and he's like, I will never do that again.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I will never be eating something just to be kind. I will say, I'm sorry, I can't do that.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. Like people, people look at you weird, [00:54:00] right? When you do that. And I'm like, okay, when you understand how good actually feels, any slight variation changes it. Like I don't get headaches anymore. I had chronic headaches for a long time that I could manage.
Carnivore JT: Like they weren't bad. Like took some, you know, three or four days a week, I had to pop some Tylenol or something to get rid of. I, you know, got to the chiropractor, get my neck worked on, but chronic headaches. And then I don't have them. When I get a headache now, I immediately go, my electrolytes got to be off like I got to be off on one of my, on some of my electrolytes.
Carnivore JT: I'm going to go make some electrolytes and some water, chug it. And most of the time I will feel better. And that doesn't happen very often because I know that as long as I keep my electrolytes in check, I don't have headaches and people will be like, Well, that's like, come on, like, you can't be that sensitive.
Carnivore JT: Like it's not a sensitivity issue. It's you realize that these are the things that are causing it. And you've just lived with [00:55:00] it so chronically that that's just normal for you now. And you think I'm the weird one. You, you get up like this every day and you're like, Oh man, I gotta sit. No, that's the weird part.
Carnivore JT: And so yeah, when there's foods or stuff that triggers some of those to come back, you instantly recognize it. I can go out to eat right now, eat a steak and probably within five minutes, tell you if it was cooked in something. of the seed oil variety. And it's not because I'm, I'm hypersensitive and I'm like, Oh man, I can't.
Carnivore JT: It's because I can recognize how I feel the difference between something cooked in animal fat and something cooked in a seed oil.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's almost like the alcoholic who's gone the past 10 years waking up and having a hangover and thinking that's normal. And then they finally get through the withdrawals and they stop drinking and they're like, wow, it's, it's a whole new life.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's, it's like, I can feel my body. It's, I feel good. I've never felt good before. And didn't know that I didn't feel [00:56:00] good.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. And then that same person doesn't drink alcohol for 10 years, has one drink and gets a hangover the next day. Like nobody's going to go, Oh man, you're just being overly sensitive.
Carnivore JT: Everybody's going to go. Oh, that makes sense. You've been so long without it. You're so like, this is so foreign to your body now, your body has this overreaction to it. Like it's literally the same thing. I know people that can get a hangover from one drink. So they don't drink. So, but that's okay.
Carnivore JT: Everybody says, Oh yeah, I get it. That makes sense. But if I tell you that I get inflammation from eating these foods, you go, Oh, come on, like really, you're going to live your life. Never eating carbs again. Like how many carbs whenever I want, like I will live, I'll go eat a chocolate cake right now if I want to, but I'm not going to feel good.
Carnivore JT: So why would I do that? And I will at some point in the next, however long I will probably eat an entire chocolate cake in one sitting and I'll go eat a [00:57:00] lot. I don't know if that was worth it. And then I won't do that for a long time because I'll remember how I felt.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's a big price. You'll have to pay for this.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Jason, this is great. Thank you so much. I appreciate you sharing your time with me and with my audience.
Carnivore JT: Yeah, absolutely. This is, this is great. I love doing these. Um, I get, I have a tendency to get locked into my own. Like people call it an echo chamber, like that's a bad thing. And I just assume everybody knows that you should eat meat.
Carnivore JT: And then I realized that there's a whole lot of people out there that still think you should eat lean meats and stay away from fats. And I'm like, man, so yeah, any, any time I can get on and talk with it and maybe one person will hear this and go, man, maybe I should give that a try. Sounds pretty good. It sounds too good to be true.
Carnivore JT: It might be, I don't know. That's what I tell [00:58:00] people. The last thing to end this on, it honestly doesn't matter what the long term effects are for me. And people want to go, what? Like, I, I recently, this is, it's been a few months. Um, someone I wasn't close, very close with my, one of my grandfathers, um, passed away and it was something that, you know, That took like 10 years, right?
Carnivore JT: Like it very slowly deteriorated nursing home was in bad shape for, for quite a while. And I realized that we're really good at keeping people alive. That's literally like you don't die from your first heart attack anymore. It's pretty uncommon for you to die from your first heart attack because we can keep people alive, but we don't keep people healthy.
Carnivore JT: Like, and so if you were to tell me right now that eating the way I'm going to do is going to shave 10 years off my life and I'm going to die at 70 instead of 80. But up until 70, I am going to feel great. [00:59:00] I would take this. And that might sound morbid or whatever, but I absolutely do not want to be 70 years old and completely dependent on other people because I can't stand upright.
Carnivore JT: It's so deep. It sounds terrible, but I feel great until I stop feeling great. I'm going to keep eating this way. And you know what? If I go out a few years earlier, And I don't live a miserable existence for a few extra years. That's totally fine with me.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Where can we find you? Where can we get your merchandise, your book and your shirts?
Carnivore JT: Uh, so I have a website, theinnercarnivore. com. It's also the name of my podcast. Uh, you can find me on pretty much every social media platform at carnivoreJT. Uh, Twitter's the only one it's at carnivore underscore JT, but
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128. SFC Walter Flores Gives Update on His Testicular Cancer
Today I talk with Sergeant First Class Walter (Wally) Flores. He has been on this show before talking about his testicular cancer diagnosis and how is chain of command treated him through that process. Today he gives an update on his situation.
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128. SFC Walter Flores Gives Update on His Testicular Cancer
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SFC Walter Flores: [00:00:00] It got to the point where my leadership just wasn't believing me up until they started seeing a pattern. A pattern from her and consistency from me.
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Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything,
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now, to your host, Dr. Sigoloff. [00:02:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I want to thank you for joining me again. I first want to give a shout out to all of my Patreon supporters. I've got 2Tough giving 30 a month, an anonymous family donor giving 20. 20 a month, the Plandemic Reprimando tier at 17. 76 a month includes Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna, Frank, Brian, Shell, Brantley, Gary, and Sharon. I've got Kevin Alanos and Pat and Bev giving 10 a month. There's the Refined Not Burned tier at 5 a month with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. Addison Mulder is giving 3 a month and Frank is giving 1. 50. And then the Courageous Contagious tier at 1 a month, Jay, SpessNasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, and Caleb.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if you're interested in having your name listed here, check out my Patreon and become a supporter. [00:03:00] Also, please be sure and check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours for some of the best beef that I've ever had. My next guest is Walter Flores. Now, Wally's been a guest here before, back at the beginning of his, of his journey, or maybe it was partially through his journey of cancer, and his hardship with the military, and how they made life just horrible.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They were despicable the way they treated him. And, and there's, I wish there was a better way to describe it, but please go back and listen to that one if you haven't. But Wally, it's so great to have you back.
SFC Walter Flores: Absolutely. No, thank you for having me back. It's great to catch up with you. But more importantly, kind of give everybody an update on what's been going on with not only my medical life, but now how it's encompassed a little bit of every aspect of my life now.
SFC Walter Flores: Thank you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, so kind of tell us, um, last time we left you off in your journey, you were getting cancer treatment for prostate cancer. Uh, where are you now? And, and by the way, you look great, you [00:04:00] got good skin. Great color, great muscle. I mean, just thank you. You don't look like someone who has cancer. So that I hope that that means something to you.
SFC Walter Flores: Yeah, no, absolutely. Thank you. Uh, first of all, once again, thank you for having me on, but it was, it was testicular cancer, not prostate cancer, still cancer, but, uh, for everybody in the Fort Cavazos area. Testicular cancer is actually the most typical and common cancer for male soldiers in the Fort Cavazos area.
SFC Walter Flores: And that's coming straight from Cardamcy, Colorado Army Medical Center. So anybody who's listening in the Fort Cavazos area and you're a male, gentlemen, please get checked. Um, because I did and here we are, and I'm able to tell my journey, which to start off, it's 100 percent in remission. The cancer is in remission.
SFC Walter Flores: After I had undergone chemotherapy. Last we spoke, I think I was about maybe three, four days away from the beginning of my chemotherapy, which was an entire story in and of itself. But I guess kind of [00:05:00] just jumping a little bit of everywhere, right? The cancer is in remission and now I'm just pretty much medically speaking, just getting checked every two to three months, making sure that it stays away.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, we had texted a little bit and you said that you've gone through some, some spiritual growth and, and you learned of a niche that is needed for, for service members in particular, but anybody who's going through, who's young and healthy and, and, and then just slammed with this diagnosis. Yeah. And so I want you to be able to share some of that.
SFC Walter Flores: Yeah, no, absolutely. Um, well, it all started off whenever I was, whenever I underwent chemo. Unfortunately, I was immunocompromised and to be perfectly honest with you, I think that's what really started this or if not started revitalize what was already there. Um, I was immunocompromised and at the time my wife had to rush me to the hospital.
SFC Walter Flores: I had a fever of 102 and it slowly started increasing up until it was at 107. I have a fever of 107 and it's almost [00:06:00] like just reliving the moment. It kind of just takes me back. So, you know, please forgive me if my voice gets all quivery because it's still something I'm still processing myself, love talking about it, but it's still something I haven't really overcome because of how significant of a moment it was.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And for the listener, when your body gets to 107, that is on the cusp of every protein in your body cooking like an egg where it can never go back. That is a dangerous, dangerous point.
SFC Walter Flores: Yeah. So once again, I was, my wife took me to the emergency room and they immediately took me upstairs to the more or less intensive care unit where I ended up getting worse.
SFC Walter Flores: My body ended up reaching a temperature of 107. And the last thing I remember was me just pressing the, uh, that on call doctor button that's that side of every hospital bed. It took me about five minutes to get to it because my entire body was quivering and The next thing I remember is about 10 doctors in the room telling me to come back.
SFC Walter Flores: And what's my name? Who are you? Do you know where [00:07:00] you're at? And I don't know what happened in between me pressing or fighting to press the button and me snapping back and seeing all of these doctors yelling at me to come back and asking me what my name was, but something happened. And to be perfectly honest with you, That, I feel, is what really revitalized, or at the very least awokened, awakened, I don't really know exactly which word it is, but it started it all, I believe.
SFC Walter Flores: And, of course, the doctors are amazing. I will never, just like I told you last time I was on this podcast, I will never not stop talking great about the curtainty folks, and, you know, They helped me get back to where I needed to be. They had it in everything under control. I was at the hospital for about a week afterwards just to monitor and maintain and control.
SFC Walter Flores: But after that, I kind of just started looking at life in a different manner. Um, it's more so I was more appreciative of the smaller things, the how grass felt in between my toes. Whenever I was walking [00:08:00] barefoot, it's just so cliche. I know it is, I promise, but It's, it's very appreciative and you learn a new sense of gratitude and you are just generally nothing can make you unhappy because you know how fast it can be taken away.
SFC Walter Flores: Yeah, but uh, just to keep on talking about it, all the, the stress and the, uh, the pressure. A lot of stuff ended up happening after my chemotherapy, and again, please feel free to stop me whenever I get too deep or if I, if you feel as if I'm talking too much, but the weeks and months up until where we are currently, I ended up discovering that my wife was cheating on me throughout the entire time I had cancer and chemotherapy.
SFC Walter Flores: And With the new sense of gratitude that I had, I was able to look at things a little bit differently to the point where I started asking questions she didn't want me to be asking, which is why now she's now relating into my professional life because she felt as [00:09:00] if I was asking a lot of questions that would have ended up discovering what she was doing.
SFC Walter Flores: She reached out to my leadership, which My company commander and said that I was somebody in something that I'm not. She claimed that I was a PTSD, have an alcoholic drug addict. And because of her being in the military, she's a hundred percent medically retired. She knew all the terminology. She knew who to talk to.
SFC Walter Flores: She knew what to say. And because of the manipulation, which she is very good at is is the correct word, because after I get done talking about my professional side, we're going to talk about my personal side. I was command referred to currency of all places by my company commander, and I was pleading with them.
SFC Walter Flores: I'm sorry, man.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, so real quick for people that are not military command referred to mental health means the, the guy who's in charge of you, who basically is like a God to you because [00:10:00] they control your pay. They can put you in prison. They can do anything to you. And they say, You must go to a behavioral health to be evaluated.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now we've heard of a situation like this. If you go back and look at an episode that I did, uh, with, with a captain and at, um, Fort Benning at the time, uh, he was coming in referred and they ended up trying to admit him and drug him against his will.
SFC Walter Flores: Yeah, that's dangerous.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So anything can happen. This is a dangerous situation.
SFC Walter Flores: It is extremely dangerous, especially because of the fact that one I'm almost 40 and my company commander is significantly younger than me now. That's really not to say anything other than, Hey. You probably should have spoken with me before you command referred me. The reason I say that is I was never even given the opportunity to speak on my behalf.
SFC Walter Flores: My wife, who reached out to my leadership after she found out I was starting to find out, Hey, he's crazy, PTSD, alcoholic. Having drank since the cancer days, since before the cancer days [00:11:00] and my company commander, without even so much as reaching out to me, Hey, Sergeant Flores, what's going on here, man? No, I'll get a phone call randomly saying that I'm being command referred.
SFC Walter Flores: And had he approached me in the manner that I feel he should have, I would have nipped it all in the butt because I have videos, I have constant videos. And this isn't just a period of one week. I have videos spanning the months. Before and during the cancer of her belittling me, ridiculing me, just straight.
SFC Walter Flores: Everything she was claiming that I, I was, she is, but again, because of the manipulation tactics that she used, and don't get me wrong, she, she was very good at it. She, she even had me fooled. Apparently for three years, I was married to her, but I was commander ford, went to currency and I was released the same night.
SFC Walter Flores: Cause even the on call psychologist is like, there's nothing wrong with you. I told her the exact same story that I told my [00:12:00] company commander. And I was released the same night because there was nothing to be concerned about. And she weaponized my leadership is what she did. Essentially after I was released, I came back home and that's whenever her aggression started increasing to the point where I had to call the police on her the whole time.
SFC Walter Flores: She's still talking to my leadership as if I'm the one. Uh, that was the cops are being called on. I showed my leadership all of the paperwork. Hey, I'm the one that called the cops. Here's the videos of her loading a gun. Here's the video X, Y, and Z until eventually she fled. Yeah, there was, there was weapons involved.
SFC Walter Flores: It got that bad. Um, Eventually, one, this one January, a beautiful way to start the new year, right? One January is whenever I said enough is enough, I called the cops for the third time in two days and she fled. After the cops left, she loaded up her four kids and I haven't seen her since. Um, I've been [00:13:00] trying to message her, one, to see if she's okay, because believe it or not, it's Raw as she did me, I still want to make sure that one she's okay.
SFC Walter Flores: But more importantly, those four kids that are with her is okay. Cause even though they're not mine, no, they're mine. It's just one of those kinds of things, but she hasn't spoken to me, but she speaks to my leadership almost on a daily basis. It's really odd because my company commander now calls me every time that she calls, Hey, she's demanding money.
SFC Walter Flores: She's demanding X, Y, and Z. And I'm telling my commander the entire time. I'm like, sir, I've been trying to get ahold of her to begin the divorce proceedings. She's claiming that I am still the abuser after all of that has been proven wrong. But it got to the point where my leadership just wasn't believing me up until they started seeing a pattern.
SFC Walter Flores: A pattern from her and consistency from me. Which has always been from the very [00:14:00] beginning to include the cancer day. So when we go from the HIPAA violation and me being delayed in my discovery of my cancer, which led to the chemo, which led to the immunocompromised to now my own leadership again, was not believing me.
SFC Walter Flores: And my wife was weaponizing my leadership. And it was, it's been a nightmare, a nightmare if you do not handle it properly. And I guess this is kind of where I really came, come into play. I think this is really where the message that I'm trying to spread really starts to shine is I knew the situation. I knew what she was doing.
SFC Walter Flores: I knew who she was doing it to. And unfortunately, This also included my seven year old being taken away from me because she also manipulated my family. So even my family thinks that I am somebody I'm not again. It's all been disproven. Unfortunately, the state of Texas got involved and now my seven [00:15:00] year old got taken away in the middle of fighting to get him back.
SFC Walter Flores: Still an open battle. I don't really want to talk much about it until it's all over. But it's part of the nightmare that I went through. So There came a point where, mentally speaking, the whole mental health aspect of it all, it was dark, it was bad, it was lonely. I lost my family, I lost my, one of my kids because my 17 year old is still with me.
SFC Walter Flores: He voluntarily came with me because my 17 year old knows there's nothing wrong with me. So I had one child out of the seven that I started off with whenever this cancer journey started. But that's not to say it wasn't dark. It wasn't lonely. It was desperate. I had nobody and I could rely on nobody because my wife, who is currently on the run, manipulated everybody because she discovered I found out she was cheating on me while I was [00:16:00] undergoing cancer and chemo.
SFC Walter Flores: So the picture that she painted was Beautiful. As, as, as weird and as, as twisted as that sounds, she did an amazing job with trying to paint me as the bad guy, which of course has all been undone. But that's not to say that the damage is still there. And everybody who I've spoken to has told me, I don't know how you're doing it.
SFC Walter Flores: How are you doing? You've lost everything. You've lost Everything you have no one, everything was taken away. How are you still here with a smile, making tech talks about how you can be strong. Again, in my head, it's extremely simple. You have to orientate the map. I don't know any other way to put it than military jargon.
SFC Walter Flores: You have to orientate the map. And by that, I mean, you have to know what pieces you're working with. What information do you have? What is right? What is wrong? What is assumptions? What is your, um, Playing field. In other words, the map your [00:17:00] life. All right, let's focus on one. Let's focus on one grid square.
SFC Walter Flores: Okay, that's done Let's focus here. Let's focus there. Let's focus there. Let's focus there And before you know it the problem is it's solved But you have a bigger piece of the puzzle put together to where everybody can see What you've been trying to say the entire time And that's currently where I'm at.
SFC Walter Flores: Everybody now sees that my wife in the stream is a narcissistic, and I'm not gonna talk bad about her, I promise you I'm not, it's just more so mental health wise. Narcissism, bipolar disorder, medications she stopped taking. It's, it's all there. I was just too blinded with the kids because for me, it's just always been about the kids.
SFC Walter Flores: I was too blinded with the love for the kids to focus on her. And then of course the cancer journey came, which kind of just, so Ro was a roller coaster of everything. But the message is really simple. You'd have to orientate your map, [00:18:00] know where you're at, know where you want to go. and kind of really just take the first step forward again.
SFC Walter Flores: I know it sounds cliche. I know it sounds like I'm reading some high school poster in the high school hallway. But I promise you take the first step, then the next, then the next. And before you know it, you're gonna look back and be like, Oh, well, I did that to the point where now she's Realizing herself because my social media, the messages I've been getting from around the world, my people in South Africa are in love with my son, Charles, you know, cause she's, I got a message from a teacher in South Africa saying that she plays one of Charles's videos on my tech talk every day before class starts, just because he's just a cute kid.
SFC Walter Flores: Um, then I got a friends that are in Australia who I served with whenever I was stationed in Germany. Whenever I was working alongside NATO, the Australian military, we worked alongside each other and we just stayed in contact. Now they're back in [00:19:00] Australia. They're sending me messages saying that they're sharing my videos and lying down under.
SFC Walter Flores: So It's becoming more of a worldwide type message. Hey, you can find control in chaos. It's just a matter of how you look at it because it's not easy. I don't ever want to say to anybody nor claim to anybody that it's easy. It was the most difficult thing I've ever had to do. And I say that with such ease because I am now looking back at it whenever I was living through it.
SFC Walter Flores: Tears were shed. Loneliness was there. Depression was there. Anxiety was there. At no point am I saying that it's one of those, Oh, life sucks. Well, let's look at it differently. Absolutely not. I'm telling you is the resiliency. The resiliency is what a lot of people I feel overlook, or they get stuck in a certain level, whether it be anger, whether it be pain, [00:20:00] this isn't fair.
SFC Walter Flores: I didn't do anything wrong. All are valid, but you have to keep moving. Otherwise, you're going to stay stagnant and everything else is going to start piling on top of you, not moving forward. And that's currently where we're at. You got to take the good with the bad. Again, I know it sounds cliche, but that's really the secret, man.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It seems like the last few months since the last time we've. We spoke, you have just been living in the book of Job, um, and that that's a, you know, it's a terrible place to be, but, but you can have your faith grow so much when you're under that kind of pressure.
SFC Walter Flores: Absolutely. And I think, you know, without diving too deep into the faith, or maybe if you want to, I have no problem, just a matter of how deep you want to go.
SFC Walter Flores: Right. But. My spirituality has definitely increased and I don't want to insult or offend anybody, but my [00:21:00] spirituality is something that has been revitalized as well. There's been conversations that I thought I was having with myself, but come to find out, I don't feel like I was. It's whenever you have nobody.
SFC Walter Flores: Those dark moments that I was talking about less than five minutes ago, those dark moments, you kind of start looking around and be like, is anybody there? And sure enough, uh, whether you actually felt something, or if you just believe somebody is listening, it doesn't matter. The fact that you start talking out loud or at the very least internally and stuff starts changing or Things kind of start shifting in the manner in which you are hoping that it shifts.
SFC Walter Flores: You kind of just continue with. What shifted? And because of that, day by day, I kind of started learning more and more about spirituality. I started going to church and it's, I started reading the Bible. I started doing a lot of things. I [00:22:00] started reading about every religion, not just one. I started reading about energy.
SFC Walter Flores: I started reading about the karma, just a little bit of everything. Jack of all trades, master of none. If you, if you will, you know, And believe it or not, in doing all of those readings, I felt, key word is felt, I felt stronger and stronger in all of my actions. That strength is really self confidence. You know what you're about.
SFC Walter Flores: Prove it. It's just really that simple. If you know you didn't do anything wrong, on top of the insane amount of evidence that you have supporting your claim, you're Okay. Everybody still looks at you in a certain way. Keep moving forward. And my body is still recovering from chemo. Cancer is 100 percent in remission.
SFC Walter Flores: I'm not sure if I said that because of my memory loss, which is a part of chemotherapy. It's a side effect of [00:23:00] chemotherapy. It's a very rare side effect, but it's still a side effect. It should get better. It has gotten better. But it's just one more thing added to the pile that you really kind of got to overcome, you know?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. I'd like to get into more of the spirituality if you, if you could.
SFC Walter Flores: Absolutely.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Cause that's, that's intriguing to me. Yeah,
SFC Walter Flores: no, absolutely. So my, my spirituality, I'll, I'll even pinpoint the night, the night that I just started talking out loud, I had lost everything. My wife was on the run. She drained our bank account, my truck.
SFC Walter Flores: Was in the shop because I put the wrong, the, uh, the wrong fluid in the diesel tank because of my memory loss. It was a 13, 000 bill that I had to get an AER loan for my, uh, my son was taken away because my family lied on the stand because of the manipulation from the shrink, she couldn't attack me professionally, so she decided to attack [00:24:00] me personally.
SFC Walter Flores: Okay. Or my, my math has been orientated, literally have nothing. I have no money. I have no support. I have no leadership. I have no kids minus my 17 year old who to this day, once all of this craziness is over, I am going to spoil beyond any imaginable belief, but the night that really kind of started it all, I was just like, okay.
SFC Walter Flores: Tears were shed. Hope was lost. I'm telling you, it was, it was one of those, one of those dark moments. It was one of those, one of those nights where everything, everything is just not where it needs to be. And I literally just got on my knees and I was just like, Hey, I don't know who's out there. I don't know if anything is out there, but I'm lost.
SFC Walter Flores: I've done nothing. I don't know what to do. This is what I want to happen. This is what is currently happening. And I don't, once again, it all goes back to the feeling. I didn't [00:25:00] see anything, but inside I felt as if, Hey, okay, are you ready to listen? And, uh, sure enough, you know, I just felt good inside. Again, this is where the whole cliche things comes into play.
SFC Walter Flores: I just felt good inside, even though outside was And the very next day it was a small victory. I don't remember exactly what happened, but it was something that I had been wanting to happen in order for me to continue moving forward. Very small victory in the grand scheme of things. But then I was just like, Oh, okay.
SFC Walter Flores: Well, let's continue doing this. And then every single night up until her times, and I'm going to continue doing it until I can't no longer anymore. I don't know who I'm talking to. I know I'm talking to somebody and maybe I'm talking to myself. Maybe I'm talking to God. Maybe I'm talking to energy. I don't know.
SFC Walter Flores: I just know that whenever I do talk, I feel better [00:26:00] inside and because I feel better inside, my attitude changes for the positive. And then now, once you have a positive attitude, you have a positive outlook. Positive outlooks go to positive actions, which in turn gives you positive reactions. So the spirituality is there again, not necessarily religious because diving deeper and deeper into this world.
SFC Walter Flores: I've, the common denominator is there's an entity out there that's extremely powerful beyond any imaginable, any imaginable beliefs, any imaginable scale, what it is. I can't tell you, nor will I ever claim to know. And people who tell me that it's God or Allah or Yahshua or Buddha. Okay. That is beautiful.
SFC Walter Flores: I am in love with your faith and your belief. I just don't attach to personally, I don't attach a name to it. But if you [00:27:00] want to attach a name to it, I assure you, if you invite me, I will go a while. I'll never talk down because my belief system has helped me. If that is your belief system, then I support everything about it.
SFC Walter Flores: And if you ask me personally, that's where a lot of the disconnect comes into play, where the religious indifferences come into play, or you don't believe my God. And that's why you're the devil. I'm like, no, that's not how this game should be played. I don't really believe that again. Everybody has their own belief system, their own energy.
SFC Walter Flores: This just so happens to be mine, which has been working out for me in my favor. It's not necessarily a question that I'm asking to get the favor. It's a belief that I'm living to get where I'm currently at in life, which has been favorable. And because of my attitude, because of the manner in which I continue my life with my new belief system, [00:28:00] again, I don't know what to call it.
SFC Walter Flores: My religious views. Okay. You call it whatever you want to call it. I'm calling my belief system. My belief system has led me to where I'm at today because of what I have been doing. My new found relief system, talking to somebody don't know who I have been able to get my truck back. My leadership has now been able to see my wife has been the narcissistic person she tried to paint me as.
SFC Walter Flores: My bounce house business has started thriving again in order for me to get more money because I didn't have any. I got my truck back. The AER people used me as a spokesperson, so now my face is out there. Believe it or not, I signed a modeling contract. Like, so many great things have been happening since.
SFC Walter Flores: I just took a knee. Literally took a knee, just like the military says, take a knee, drink water. [00:29:00] And I'm going to continue with it. Like there is absolutely no shame. And a lot of people are, I don't want to say they're terrified of me, but they have most certainly distanced themselves away from me because, hey, You need to do this because this is happening.
SFC Walter Flores: So they're coming to me asking me, Hey, how can I fix my life? Because I see you fixing your life. Part of this new realization that I have is I no longer have a filter. Like I no longer try to preserve feelings because look at what happened to mine because I was trying to preserve hers. So I tell them how it is.
SFC Walter Flores: I look, man, or look, whoever you are going through this, because you're doing this, stop this. And this is more than likely going to stop. Now, again, can't tell you exactly that's going to happen, but patterns dictate. Behavior, behavior tells you where you're going and patterns dictate and because of your behavior and because of your patterns, you are in this situation.[00:30:00]
SFC Walter Flores: If you're looking to try and do something different, take this out of the equation. Let's see what happens from there. And if nothing happens, well then let's just readjust. And they don't like what they're hearing or they are too terrified to acknowledge or confront what is being told to them, which in turn, they are no longer talking to me, which is fine because they're filtering themselves out of my life, which is making my life easier.
SFC Walter Flores: It's just, it's a win win. It's all a matter of outlook, how you look at things, how you think about things, how you go about your day to day life, which. Believe it or not, has been peaceful amidst chaos.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I would say everything that you're saying right now, it's, it's almost like you recently read 12 rules for life by Jordan Peterson. I don't know if you ever read that one,
SFC Walter Flores: but I have heard of Jordan Peterson. And again, without, I don't want to, uh, without cutting you off or nothing like that, I've definitely been listening to a lot of, uh, more Jordan Peterson.
SFC Walter Flores: I forgot [00:31:00] this, uh, Carl Sagan, like a whole bunch of different people on top of the Bible. Now I can't quote any specific scriptures, but. Reading the Bible. I'm like, Oh, I know what he was trying to, what he meant by that. I know what he was trying to say. Like, it's just. The more you focus on yourself, the more you start learning, one, about yourself, but two, the world, and three, people.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Jordan Peterson, when he wrote his first book, he was not overtly Christian. He, he, he looked at the Bible in a critical literary sense. So he looked at them as literary works of art. And often, so some of the rules that he gleaned from the Bible were, you know, pet the cat. That's one of the rules from 12 Rules for Life, and what that means is, enjoy this fleeting moment.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Because soon it will be gone and you won't be able to enjoy it later. And this terrible moment? It'll be gone soon, so wait for the next good moment to come along, and, and just bask in that good moment. He, [00:32:00] he talks about in his book, Maps for Meaning, um, that our life is a map, and people can be destroyed and never come back from when they're walking along on their map and they fall into a hole.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: A hole exactly as you fell into, where up is down, left is right, right is left, and your spouse was not who you thought they were. And then most people can't reorient their map from that kind of betrayal. But that's, that's what he teaches in that book.
SFC Walter Flores: Which kind of goes along with what I was trying to say.
SFC Walter Flores: A lot of people can get past a certain level of emotion, a certain feeling, is anger, hurt, Betrayal. So they walk around the rest of their lives, one, not trusting anybody, two, looking completely angry the entire time, which is essentially a shield and nobody approaches you, which just increases your own anger.
SFC Walter Flores: It's, I understand exactly what he was trying to say, or is trying to say. And the most painful thing, The most painful thing about emotion, I call it emotional evolution, [00:33:00] emotional, internal, emotional evolution. Because if you can't move past a certain, a certain level of anger or a certain level of pain, one, you probably never experienced it before.
SFC Walter Flores: Two, you've probably never been taught how to properly process, which was me, but because I just decided to take a knee, talk to, talk to myself or talk to a higher power. I talked to somebody. But because I was able to swallow my own pride, embarrass myself publicly, because she exposed our inner, you know, everybody doesn't like to talk about what happens behind closed doors as a family, and I'm no exception.
SFC Walter Flores: But the second she went public and made it known, I went public as well and made everybody aware. I was like, okay, you want to play this game? I can play this game as well. Which is what enabled me. To increase or widen my parameters of the playing field that she chose to play. She [00:34:00] decided to expose our private lives.
SFC Walter Flores: I'm like, okay, this is how I play that game. You want to play it here. I play it here. And because I played it here, she ran, she didn't think or expect or know that I was either capable or willing or going to do it. I'm like, no, I fight for mine. And I know that I am confident in everything that I am fighting for and you are not, which is why I'm still here and she's on the run, but the emotional portion of it, people don't know how to process their emotions.
SFC Walter Flores: And I say that with confidence, because unfortunately, going back to the military aspect of it all, the suicide rate is at an all time high, statistically speaking, and everybody has their own problems. Everybody has their own problems and everybody's problems is not the same. I acknowledge that. I would also like to acknowledge that they probably didn't look at things the way I'm looking at things.
SFC Walter Flores: And that's not [00:35:00] to say my problem trumps their problems, but the way I handled my problems amidst The enemies that I had and the enemies were from my own camp. It was my family. It was my leadership. It was my wife. Like I was blindsided and ambushed. Just like you said, left is up, down is right. It was, I was discombobulated and it took about a solid two weeks for me to regain my bearing, my emotional bearing, my physical bearing, my mental bearing.
SFC Walter Flores: And once everything kind of got back to square one, I was like, all right, Now let me take a knee because I don't know what to do. I've never experienced this. I know I need to move forward I just don't know how so with me talking I was able to actually discover Hey, this is why this is happening to you.
SFC Walter Flores: Not because of your cancer not because of X Y or Z, but my new level of realizing things [00:36:00] hey The people you wronged back in the years. Who's to say this isn't karma for that? Or acknowledgement. There's levels to everything. Yes, this happened, but because this happened, I got a modeling contract. Yes, she cheated on me while I had cancer, but because she cheated on me while I had cancer, my relationship with my 17 year old has never been stronger.
SFC Walter Flores: So whenever people are praying to be stronger, talking, I wish I had the strength that you do. You sure about that? Like that one, like the one mean, you sure about that? Because whenever you ask for strength or pray for strength, it's not given, it's earned. You know, you get your strength that you're looking for through the tribulations that is about to be presented to you.
SFC Walter Flores: And again, I can honestly say, I remember some nights before any, anything started to include the cancer journey that, Hey, I want to be stronger than what I already am. Never knowing this is where it would take me. And here we are, like I have a platform on social media now that is gaining [00:37:00] popularity because of my mental health message.
SFC Walter Flores: I was able to sign a modeling, modeling contract, which hopefully will expand the messages that I'm trying to help with people who are in disparity, mental disparity in the military. I'm still active duty in the middle of retirement. It's, I'm still active duty. And even after I retire, I am going to stay within the community because I've seen the level of care that the soldiers are getting because I sought it out too.
SFC Walter Flores: Can't speak much on it because I'm active duty, but I'm going to help. I'm going to help after I get out. With more genuineness, I suppose,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: well, quick aside, if anyone here is in the military or any situation in life, experiencing significant mental health issues to include [00:38:00] borderline personality to include schizophrenia, please go and watch an episode I recently did with Dr, uh, Mitch Leaster, and we talk about sublingual ketamine, uh, and then see if you can find a physician that might be able to, uh, or willing to, uh, to offer that to you for treatment.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You'll just be shocked and amazed how well that has worked for many patients.
SFC Walter Flores: Yeah, there's, yeah, I've got to do a little bit of research on that myself. But, uh, I'm sorry, I'm trying to reach my water bottle, I'm sorry. Um, I'm trying to do some research on that myself. But there's many methods, there's many alternatives out there in order for people to get the help that they need because something that I've also come across is whenever they ask me for help, they don't necessarily absorb whatever I'm telling them, which is fine.
SFC Walter Flores: I'm not telling you this is how this is the only way you can see yourself out. This is my way. And if this tool works for you, then put it in your toolbox. And if not, Hey, let me know what tool works for you so I could put it in mine. So it's an open minded sense of genuineness that [00:39:00] I'm coming from, because what worked for me has worked for a handful of other people who have told me, but it's also not necessarily been received in a manner that I would hope for it to have been received to another group, which is also fine.
SFC Walter Flores: I'm not telling you this is the only way. I'm telling you this is my way and because of all of the chaos and craziness that I'm still in the middle of battling, because I'm still trying to track her down to begin the divorce proceedings, all those wrinkles that were once there. They're no longer there.
SFC Walter Flores: It's just a couple of wrinkles here and there now because of your attitude because of how you look at things because I was able to move past the hurt, the anger, the shame, the family abandonment. It's it's a lot. It really is a lot. And the manner in which everybody or anybody looks at it. They're not wrong.
SFC Walter Flores: Nobody is wrong with how they feel. Nobody is wrong with how they look at it because it's a lot. Their emotions, [00:40:00] their feelings, what you do with them. That's up to you. I decided to move forward while I was hurting. I decided to move forward while I was embarrassed because I knew that me staying still, wasn't going to do anything except make the problem worse.
SFC Walter Flores: So. It's just move forward. And because I was able to move forward with a certain at, with a certain attitude, with a certain ability to see things in regards to this is what she did. I don't know why she did it. I mean, I know why. It's because she tried to tarnish my name after I would have exposed her for cheating on me while I was undergoing chemo and cancer.
SFC Walter Flores: Like, the playbook is, the playbook is there. She tried to tarnish my name in order for me to have no credibility whenever I would have exposed her. And I would have. I think the irony of it all is now she's exposed, but at a social level, as opposed to just an internal family [00:41:00] level. And this is all self inflicted.
SFC Walter Flores: None of this is due to vengeance or vindictiveness. I'm still looking for her to begin the divorce procedures. She's still contacting my leadership, trying to say something that has already been disproven. Now I'm just fighting to try to get my son back, which again is an open legal battle still. But With all the met with all the ways in which I've been handling everything.
SFC Walter Flores: It's, it's, it's, it's only a matter of time. And again, with the whole spirituality of it all, it all happens for a reason. Once again, it was, there goes the whole cliche, like it all happens for a reason. And what the reason is didn't tell you in the grand scheme of things, but I can tell you from my perspective.
SFC Walter Flores: I wanted to get stronger about three or four months before I was diagnosed with cancer. Once again, I don't know who I was talking to, but I remember just thinking it, I think, I think, I think I'm stronger than this. And then life is like, okay. Let's see. [00:42:00] And here we are.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And I want to encourage anyone who's listening, you know, if you're going through these hard times, you know, as a physician, I tell people, if you have a higher power, it's good to struggle with that. You know, if you don't have a higher power, maybe consider looking at different religions. I'm not in the clinical office right now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So what I will say is, personally, I will encourage everyone to check out Christianity, check out the Bible, and you don't have to go to a specific denomination, but the stories in the Bible are put there for a reason and they're much deeper. And if you check out Jordan Peterson, Dr. Jordan Peterson, and the way he describes them in his different series he has on Genesis and, and he explains this stuff to a level that's just absolutely incredible.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Like one of his rules is to focus on the noble good rather than what's expedient. And he talks about the story of Noah, and how Noah was focused on what was the noble good, which was God. And through that, by focusing on God instead of what the world was doing, [00:43:00] he saved His wife, his three sons and their three wives, one wife each, and then also all the animals on the earth by building this ark, which was this great task that took him 120 years to finish.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But, and while he was in the middle of building it, he was ridiculed by his peers. They, they destroyed his, his process as he went and he had to rebuild and, I mean, it was a whole thing. And they had never even seen rain ever at that point. And yet he's still building this boat in the desert. And, and I think that's exactly what you have done is you have built this boat in the desert.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You have found yourself in the desert in a portion of the map that you've never thought you would be. And what I'm seeing is, is you're building this arc and currently that arc is carrying you and your, your oldest son. Um, and hopefully it can carry more of your family. Um, And I think the important thing to realize here, too, is our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against rulers and principalities of darkness.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's the spiritual [00:44:00] realm that inhabits us, whispers in our ear, and says, Do this, this is good for you, and disregard the destruction that happens. Yeah. And we see that,
SFC Walter Flores: you know, you kind of reminded me of something whenever you were talking about Noah's Ark is again, without offending anybody or trying to stir up any sort of controversy, but Hey, if you want to talk about it, they want to talk about it.
SFC Walter Flores: So long as it's in a civil and respectful manner, I am open to it. The whole, uh, give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime. I think it's more so I can apply that with me. Like, I remember, and I had a conversation with a church, a fellow church, a church member. They were telling me, Hey man, you didn't have any money, but you just put 20 in the basket.
SFC Walter Flores: I'm like, I know. They were like, but why? You don't have any money. I'm like, yeah, but I can make more money. You know, that's the whole. Teach a man to fish. Well, I know how to fish with either my bounce house business or whether it's with the RV rental business or believe [00:45:00] it or not, I I'm in the middle of creating a mindset coaching business in order to help people navigate through their storms.
SFC Walter Flores: So. Translating it just like you're saying is the epitome. What I feel is the Bible in all of this essence, it's not necessarily given sight to the blind. It's seeing things in a whole new way to where people don't believe in God, but God is literally or whoever you claim is your entity, your deity literally in front of you.
SFC Walter Flores: It's just a matter of knowing how to see things, which is giving sight to the blind. And just like you're saying, the translation of it all is, is beautiful because some people live, live it word for word, which they're not wrong, right? But others like to translate it in the manner in which they see fit or in the manner in which they feel is the true essence of it, which in my opinion,
SFC Walter Flores: teach a man to fish or give them a fish he eats for a [00:46:00] day. Teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime. Well, my version of teaching me being taught how to fish is my social skills, my ability to be a business entrepreneur. I can create a business and I can start generating money. That's me being taught how to fish.
SFC Walter Flores: So it's the translation and the essence and how you view things because you're not wrong. That's the beauty of it. You're never wrong. If you believe it word for word. Beautiful. I support you and I couldn't be any more happy for you. But if you translate it in a certain way, that still holds its essence in the foundational layer, you're also right.
SFC Walter Flores: Because look at your life. You're happy. You have a beautiful family. You went through your, you went through your hell and then you found heaven. Nobody is wrong. That's the beauty of it. Nobody is wrong. It's how you view things. And I view things in a manner that, okay, that's great. This is the problem.
SFC Walter Flores: This happened because of [00:47:00] x, but now we know why. Let's move forward and that's led me to where I'm at right now with the support one from my leadership finally to believe it or not from around the world with the footprint and getting bigger and bigger with every day that passes due to how I'm able to handle myself in situations that would have essentially ended a lot of people.
SFC Walter Flores: Which, and I say that with confidence because I've had senior leaders message me what via my social media. I don't know how you're doing it. I couldn't do it. If my son or if my family was taken away or if I had cancer, if I had chemo, if leadership did this, I wouldn't do it or I couldn't do it. This is coming from senior leaders.
SFC Walter Flores: This is not, we're talking about the military, but this is coming from senior leaders. And now we're talking about the civilian footprint. I've had friends that I grew up with. I don't know what you're doing, man, but you are not the same person I grew up [00:48:00] with. It's because I'm not. Because I was living, I was living in a manner that put me in a situation that I had to get out of and I'm still currently getting out of, but now I know how to get out of that dark hole, but because now I know how to get out of that dark hole, I'm going back in to try to help others help themselves how to get out.
SFC Walter Flores: I'm not telling them the path. I'm not telling them how to get out. I'm helping them get out. So if they were to ever get in again, they got those ladders that me and them set last time. Knowing how to get out of that dark hole. And essentially that's the name of the game and mental health and people want to weaponize mental health.
SFC Walter Flores: And that's, that's a dangerous game. People who aren't mentally sound enough, and then they get attacked in such manner, you essentially are helping them end themselves. And that is vile to say the least. [00:49:00] With every, uh, I forgot what movie it was. It was Jamie Foxx's The Kingdom, I believe it was. There was a scene where he was talking to his son.
SFC Walter Flores: With every bad incident, what do you always see? You see so many ambulances, you see so many police. So with every bad act, there is an unimaginable number of good acts. Unfortunately, the bad act already happened, but the people that are helping is insane. And I apply that to not only my life, but I am now the help that's running towards the action as opposed to either helping with the bad act or just turning around acting as if the bad act isn't there.
SFC Walter Flores: Like, no, I acknowledge that it's there. Everybody's running this way. I'm running to you. I promise I am. And whatever I can do to help, I'm going to help. And if I can't help, well, let me just keep you company.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wally, [00:50:00] I want to remind the audience that, um, and this is me speaking as, as a host of this, um, the show is that there's always room and there's always forgiveness at the foot of the cross. And for everybody who's struggling is going through a hard time. Um, you may believe in something different, but look here at the foot of the cross, there's room, there's forgiveness for yourself, for others.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That there's a way forward. It's not fire insurance, meaning you don't believe in Jesus just to not go to hell. Jesus is here to, to help you get out of that hole and to make life better now at this very moment. And are things gonna get better? Is life perfect as a Christian? No. But there's a way out. And there's a, your joy comes from something other than your own self.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And that joy is real joy.
SFC Walter Flores: Spot on. You hit the, you hit the X on that. A lot of people, well, I found Jesus just so I don't go to hell. I'm like, no, that's not how it works. But again, if that's what you believe, okay, continue living your life in that way. We'll see what happens. But everybody has their reason to follow.
SFC Walter Flores: Everybody has a reason to [00:51:00] be led and everybody has a reason to lead. And while I'm being led, I am also leading the ones who don't know how to get to where they need to be. Amen.
SFC Walter Flores: So, uh, my TikTok is go with the flow, it's go period, W I T period, the period flow. So go with the flow, cause my last name is Flores. Uh, so TikTok is go with the flow. And Instagram is two hands or no hands all together, number two, the number two and then hands or no hands, two hands or no hands all together.
SFC Walter Flores: And all of my videos are regarding mental health. And I add a little bit of humor to it specifically because it's a very sensitive topic. It is. Which is why I add a little bit of humor to a number of my videos that pretty much displayed my current journey. Bye. A little bit of a comedic twist, just so everybody can laugh at the struggle, [00:52:00] because everybody has to laugh.
SFC Walter Flores: I promise you. It's extremely healthy. Laughing is healthy. It's okay to laugh at yourself. I promise you.
SFC Walter Flores: Look at this.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Laughter is a good medicine and, and especially when you're in the military, uh, and, and medicine, uh, you develop a dark humor, which, which kind of helps you cope through those skills. That's the funny part.
SFC Walter Flores: And some, some of that military humor kind of translates into my social media. So please take no offense or don't think there's anything wrong.
SFC Walter Flores: It's just, I've been militarized 17 years in, I promise.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, Wally, it's been so good having you on. I'm glad things are going better for you. And I pray that they will continue, uh, to, to go up, that, that your art continues to grow and more of your family can be in there and can rescue the more of you.
SFC Walter Flores: This whole, this whole thing has definitely made me look at life a different way.
SFC Walter Flores: Hate is no longer a vocabulary in my heart. I don't hate anybody, regardless of what has been done to me. I actually forgive them and hope that they learn to love themselves because there's a certain hate in them that's causing [00:53:00] them to hate others. Fix it.
SFC Walter Flores: There you go. Exactly. I agree.
SFC Walter Flores: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you once again for having me on. so much. Much appreciated.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there. And due to uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's [00:54:00] fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow that gives birth to the calf.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare it to What we can buy from River Bend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Check out MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. That's MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours.
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127. Paul Mann, More on Ivermectin and Cancer
Today I talk with Paul Mann. He was barely able to make it day to day due his cancer. Hear his story and what may have helped him get to the point where he is now winning over the cancer.
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127. Paul Mann, More on Ivermectin and Cancer
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Paul Mann: [00:00:00] And after you finish your radiation, after you finish your chemo infusions, You're kind of just set free. You know, they've done what they can for you. They can't do anything else except monitor you and your treatments are kind of over. It really feels like you've been in the ocean with a life vest on bobbing around and someone comes by on a boat and they take your life vest but they leave you and they just take off.
Paul Mann: That's kind of how it feels. At the moment, right now, no one knows how much ivermectin to take, and no one knows how often to take it. Because of Dr. Ruddy, I'm the first human to purposely take ivermectin, uh, for cov for, uh, cancer.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: [00:01:00] Antibiotics has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow that gives birth to the calf. It's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if we compare to What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it. It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out MyCleanbeef.com/after hours.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's mycleanbeef.com/afterhours, mycleanbeef.com/afterhours.
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, thank you for joining me again. I first want to give a shout out to all my patron supporters. We've got two tough giving 30 a month. We've got an anonymous family donating 20 and 20 cents a month. We have the pandemic reprimando giving 17 and 76 cents a month with Ty Charles tinfoil, Stanley, Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna. Frank, Brian, Shell, Brantley, Gary, and Sharon. We have 10 a month [00:03:00] with Kevin and Patton Bev. We have The Refined not burned at 5 a month with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Mark, I'm sorry, Marcus, Elizabeth, Don, and Joe. Ken, Mary, and Amanda. We have Addison Mulder giving 3 a month, and Frank giving 1. 50. And then we have Courageous Contagious tier at 1 a month with Jay, SpessNasty, Darrell, Susan, uh, Suzanne, B.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: B. King, and Caleb. Be sure and check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours to get some of the best beef that I've personally ever tasted. And we'll learn more about ways of eating when we talk to our next guest. Paul Mann. Sir, I met you at the FLCCC conference and you were showcased as, as a, as a patient who's gone through an incredible life change.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and if anybody's interested in learning more about this, go back and listen to episode 123 that I did with Dr. Ruddy. Paul, thank you so [00:04:00] much for coming on and telling us your story. So thank you for inviting me. So tell me when all this started for you, what you were diagnosed with, what you're, what you understood that to mean, and then how you got hooked up with Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Ruddy.
Paul Mann: Right. And in early, for the first couple of months of 2022, I had some severe sciatica pains and I thought it was just sciatica. I thought it would just go away. So, but eventually the pain just became so overwhelming and so just. excruciating. I was forced to see a doctor. I saw a doctor that specializes in sciatica.
Paul Mann: He took an x ray and then he immediately said, I'm going to send you over to get a metro imaging. It's a chain of M. R. I. Facilities here in the ST Louis area. And he's like, I want to send you over there. They're going to do you give you an M. R. I. [00:05:00] Immediately. And then you come back at the time. I didn't realize how unusual that was.
Paul Mann: They're usually booked up mhm. Weeks and weeks, maybe months in advance. So just showing up and getting an MRI on the spot is kind of unheard of, but I didn't know that at the time. So it really didn't ring any alarms for me. Went back to his office and I guess they had, he had spoken to them on the phone already.
Paul Mann: And this was June 4th or June 2nd of 22. And As soon as I showed back up in his office, he's like, you, you need to go to wash you emergency room right now, take your desk and, and tell them, you know, what's going on and give you, give them this, this image disc. So I went to wash you the next day, June 3rd, uh, they saw me pretty quick actually for emergency rooms.
Paul Mann: And, uh, They ended up [00:06:00] keeping me about two and a half weeks. I was diagnosed with stage four prostate cancer and from the very beginning it had already, it was across my pelvis, up my spine, across most of the ribs, in the sternum, a little bit in the right arm, the right leg, and a few spots in my skull.
Paul Mann: They immediately started that day. One of the doctors told me you are well beyond any kind of surgery and the next day they started radiation treatments. They started hormone treatments and then a week later they started chemo treatments. I had 6 chemo treatments total and 12 radiation treatments, 10 to my right.
Paul Mann: pelvis and two to my sternum. And at the, at the last, uh, [00:07:00] chemotherapy session infusion before, before the infusion, I was in the exam room and I was talking to the doctor. I knew a little bit about what was going to go on, but not quite. And I asked him, I was like, okay, we get the last chemo infusion. We wait six to eight weeks.
Paul Mann: Get another scan to see what's going on. If I still have cancer in me, do I get more chemo? What do we do? I thought chemo was the cure. And, uh, the doctor looked at me and he's like, this isn't curative. And I was just thinking, sitting there thinking to myself, well, if it isn't curative, why did we do this?
Paul Mann: I was thinking that, but I didn't say it. I was just kind of mind locked and numb, and either he's had enough experience with other people, or he could read my expression, but he was like, you know, we're only doing this to improve the quality of life here at the end, end of your life, [00:08:00] and I said something about the, uh, I was thinking, Okay, man.
Paul Mann: Because I'd get chemo on Thursday, by Friday afternoon I'd start throwing up, and I'd throw up continuously until about Monday morning sometime. And when I say continuously, I mean continuously. You would think that you would run out of things to come out of you, but you do not. I wouldn't even have time to stand up before I'd have to throw up again.
Paul Mann: I just sat in front of the toilet, leaned over for three and a half days straight, couldn't sleep because you're throwing up continuously. And I was thinking to myself, this really isn't an improvement in the quality of life. I don't understand. And I said something about the future. And, uh, he's like, you're only your only long term goal is to make it to your next visit, which was a week away.
Paul Mann: And I asked him, am I, [00:09:00] am I living week to week? And he's like, no, you're squeaking by day to day. I'm trying to get you to week to week. And I was like, that was the first time I kind of realized that. And I was like, well, that's not good. And he goes, no, it's not a good position to be in at all. And he's like, at some point, one or more of your organs is going to have too much cancer in it to continue functioning.
Paul Mann: And you're going to have a series of organ failures. And I was like, well, that doesn't sound fun. And he's like, no, that's not fun at all. And he's like, but we have some medications where you won't feel most of that pain. And I was thinking the word most isn't the same as the word all and I was like well that's not good and he's like it's really not.
Paul Mann: So that was the kind of end of that meeting and I went on to have my last infusion right after that. And after you finish your radiation, after you finish your chemo infusions, you're You're kind [00:10:00] of just set free. You know, they've done what they can for you. They can't do anything else except monitor you and your treatments are kind of over and it really feels like you're been in the ocean with a life vest on bobbing around and someone comes by on a boat and they take your life vest but they leave you and they just take off.
Paul Mann: That's kind of how it feels and I was very distraught. Very felt very like, you know, abandoned and, uh, I worked for the federal government. I've worked for the federal government for about 28 years and it's a tight knit. There's a lot of people in this agency, but it's a tight knit community. So worried about me kind of spread around.
Paul Mann: And even people out on in the East Coast, they're like, did you hear what happened to Paul? Have you heard what happened, what Paul's going through? And one of these [00:11:00] people, she, I'd never met her before, but she sent me an email through work. And she's like, Hey, I know someone who's an oncologist. I can see if she'll answer some questions.
Paul Mann: If you, if you have any to ask, and I did, I had several questions to ask and I sent her an email back. Yes, I have, I have lots of questions and the person she's talking about is Dr. Ready and she got, she told Dr. Ready about me and gave Dr. Ready my phone number. And, uh, sometime this is probably. November of 22 on a Sunday evening, Dr.
Paul Mann: Reddy called me and spoke to me for about two and a half, three hours just on her own time. And we've spoken once a week ever since. But, you know, she's like, okay, what were [00:12:00] you diagnosed with? What have they treated? How have they treated you? You know, she got all that information first and then she's like, I was, if you have any questions, you know, and my first questions were like, why can't I get more chemo?
Paul Mann: Why can't I get more radiation? Why can't I get more, you know, and the answers to that is basically, uh, at some point, because I asked, you know, some people get chemotherapy for like a year to multiple years. Some people get like 40 or 50 radiation treatments. Why can't I? And when it comes to the chemotherapy, people who get the chemotherapy for years are usually getting a reduced dosage spread out over a long period of time, versus that for me, they just went straight to the maximum right off the bat.
Paul Mann: which is good and bad. It's good that [00:13:00] they treated it that aggressively. It's a bad sign that they thought they had to treat it that aggressively from the beginning. But the answer to why I couldn't have more chemotherapy is that at some point, your body just reaches a toxicity limit and you just can't have any more.
Paul Mann: Any more chemo would literally kill you and that's just the way that is. The same with the radiation treatments. I had cancer or have cancer throughout my entire body. So they just can't radiate your entire body. So they pick and choose certain areas that are either life threatening or causing extreme agonizing pain.
Paul Mann: And the pain is why they, they treated my right pelvis and the life threatening is why they treated my sternum. And That those were the dosages to treat to treat those two spots for for [00:14:00] those what was what they were doing at first. You know, we talked a lot about this the 1st phone call the next week doctor ready started at start suggesting things like a change of diet.
Paul Mann: I've changed my diet. She she suggested a few things to to. add or to try. And then maybe by December of 22, Dr. Ruddy was like, it looks like in trials with, with animals. And it looks like maybe some people who were taking ivermectin for different reasons that they might've had a good reaction with their cancer.
Paul Mann: And she's like, you have nothing to lose. You're at the end of the rope. You have nothing to lose. You should try to get some ivermectin and see what it does. If it doesn't do anything for you, whatever's going to happen is going to [00:15:00] happen anyway, but it might just do something. I, she thought it would, and it appears that it did.
Paul Mann: It appears that so far it has extended my life, maybe a year past when they thought I was going to die. And I think things right now, things appear to be getting better. Uh, we'll find out for sure. June, uh, 17 of 24, in about two months, I get my next round of full scans and we'll know the exact what's going on at that moment.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So you had your last treatment and then after that last treatment is when you got connected to Dr. Ruddy and After sometime after that is when you began the ivermectin and so, because, because I mean, people might say, oh, well, maybe it's working. Maybe the, the, um, the chemotherapy is working, but they stopped it because it wasn't working.
Paul Mann: [00:16:00] Correct. They stopped it because it wasn't working. Uh, the doctor told me this was not curative. He told me that. Uh, he told me I was completely full of very advanced, very aggressive cancer. There is no curative. We're only doing this to improve your quality of life. So they had finished. I had reached my toxicity limit with that.
Paul Mann: It wasn't curative, it wasn't going to be curative, and they kind of set me free, and that's a month or so later is when I got in contact with Dr. Reddy.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. What kind of dietary changes, um, have you done to help your situation?
Paul Mann: There's a very good book, I don't remember the author, but the name of the book is How Not to Die.
Paul Mann: It's a thicker book. The last half of [00:17:00] the book is all citations and, and references. And the first half of the book is every type of cancer he, he talks about has its own specific little chapter. Each chapter is only four or five pages long. It covers many, many cancers, and he just kind of rounds up studies that different universities or hospitals have done regarding dietary changes and how it affects cancer.
Paul Mann: And the biggest one is sugar. If you have any kind of cancer, or if you know someone who has cancer, you gotta cut down sugar as much as possible. I talked to someone doing an MRI one time, The reason why you cut, so when you're going to do an MRI for cancer, they, they run you through without contrast and then they give you a contrast and they run you through again and [00:18:00] kind of spot things and the contrast ends up getting, getting, Absorbed by all the cancer and at, you know, you wait for an hour for it to do that.
Paul Mann: And then before they run that scan, that's a radioactive sugar solution that they give you. And the reason why they give you a sugar solution is they know that cancer, cancer cells eat sugar at something like 17 to 22 times the rate of a normal cell. Cancer cells love to eat sugar. That's a known fact.
Paul Mann: There's debate on what cancer cells are doing with that sugar. To me, it seems obvious it's doing that to power itself. But there's debate on what it's doing. But the fact is, they do know it eats sugar at that grade of a rate more than a normal cell. And the book reads, and I just figured, you know, If cancer is doing that, I don't want it to [00:19:00] do that.
Paul Mann: So, the biggest dietary changes I reduce, I eat nothing with added sugar at all. I try to stick with things with zero sugar. Sometimes I'll eat things with, I'll go up to two grams. nothing more than two grams. So at the beginning, it's kind of hard because it takes a long time to go to the grocery store and you have to look at the labels of everything.
Paul Mann: You're like, okay, well, this one has four grams. Let me see if I can find one. You go, okay, well, this one has two grams. So I just dropped my sugar for this item in half. And he, and, Once you go to the store once or twice, you know, which products to buy and it makes it easy, but at the beginning, it's hard. It takes a lot of effort and a lot of time to figure out how to cut out sugar, but you know, no chocolate, no candies.
Paul Mann: No, these are, these are things you just got to stop. You got to stop.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And,
Paul Mann: and kind of,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: kind of [00:20:00] another useful guy that you can use is if it's If it's an animal product, if it's a, you know, beef, chicken, eggs, then it doesn't have sugar in it and you can eat as much of that as you could possibly want.
Paul Mann: Correct. So I eat a lot of meat and a lot of vegetables. And, uh, that's pretty much my diet and I'm doing just fine. Uh, some people have told me, you know, like, you have a really strong will not eating sugar, but I just look at things with sugar and go, do I really want to feed cancer? The cancer that's killing me and my, my response is always, no, I don't want to feed the cancer that's killing me.
Paul Mann: So going without sugar is no problem with me so far. It's literally a life or death decision, whether you want to eat, in my opinion, if you want to eat sugar or not.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: No, that's, that is the absolute truth is cancer loves sugar. And, and you are faced with an amazing choice. Do I feed the cancer and my sweet tooth and my addiction to sugar, or do I not and [00:21:00] have better quality of life and have a life that you wouldn't have otherwise?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's, it's incredible choice that you're faced with and I'm glad you're, you're picking the right thing.
Paul Mann: So it was the, the no sugar, uh, I added ground flax seed that's supposed to help reduce your, your testosterone, which helps reduce the PSA number, which for me, prostate cancer feeds off of testosterone as well.
Paul Mann: So, uh, That time when I went into the emergency room that first time, my PSA level was in the eight hundreds. It's supposed to be like five or six, five or six is kind of a high number. Actually, it's supposed to be a little bit lower than that. But as you age, it creeps up. The line was well into the eight hundreds to the point that the one doctor is like, we know it's prostate cancer.
Paul Mann: We really can't tell you that until the biopsies come back. But we know that's what it is. And we're treating you for prostate [00:22:00] cancer right now. Even though the biopsies hadn't even been done yet, the PSA number was just so high and everything else was leading that they just already knew what it was.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So after treatment, do you remember what your PSA number was after your last chemotherapy treatment?
Paul Mann: After my last chemotherapy, and they'd been giving me hormone shots to drive down the testosterone, which feeds the prostate, uh, during that time period. They were able to drive my, uh, PSA down into like the four or five range, and currently it's sitting at 0.02.
Paul Mann: It's say 0.0.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: When you say four or five, you mean four or 500, or four or five. The number itself, four or five. It had gone from like 830
Paul Mann: down to four, four and a half, something like that, and it's currently at 0.02. Wow. [00:23:00] And the doctor said their goal was to get under 0.2, and I'm at 0.02. Wow. So, through my diet and through their hormones and all that, I've really done a good job at almost getting to zero.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And at what point did you start the Ivermectin? At what point was the PSA when you started it and after?
Paul Mann: By the, when I started the, the Ivermectin, uh, my PSA was probably a five or six and started the ivermectin. For me, it's almost impossible to get ivermectin here in Missouri. It's really hard to find a doctor that would even, that'll even talk about ivermectin, let alone prescribe.
Paul Mann: And it's really hard to find a pharmacy that would give, you know, If you took it to Walmart, they definitely won't hand it out. If you take it to a Walgreens or CVS, they're not going to, you have to go to like a [00:24:00] compounding pharmacy. It's probably easier in Missouri to buy heroin than it is ivermectin.
Paul Mann: Wow. But in, uh, that's the truth. That's the truth. And you probably get more trouble for buying ivermectin than you do heroin. That's probably the truth as well. But in Tennessee, which is about four and a half hour drive one way for me, you can get it. It's this weird kind of over the counter. You don't need a doctor's prescription, but the pharmacist can prescribe it.
Paul Mann: And It was a compounding pharmacy about four and a half hours away. They sell it as a propylactic for COVID. So they sell it based on your weight. And they sell it at enough quantity that you can take like two pills a week for 90 days as a propylactic against COVID. I needed a whole lot more than that.[00:25:00]
Paul Mann: And, uh, so I had a friend who also would get ivermectin, and then I would just pay for both prescriptions, and that would give me four pills for 90 days, but I was still kind of breaking them up to make them stretch for the entire,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: you know. What dosage, were those the three milligram tablets?
Paul Mann: Uh, they were capsules.
Paul Mann: Okay, so I'm not quite sure they're based on. I just gave him a weight of 170, but, uh, now I was at that FLCCC conference there in Phoenix, Arizona, and a lot of people kept telling me about, uh, buying it through India Mart. So I just. Received a, a huge order I'd order like a thousand pill, 1,012 milligram pills, and I received them.
Paul Mann: So my plan is to take two of those a day, that'll be 24 gram milligrams. [00:26:00] So I'll take 24 milligrams a day and that, that shipment should last me 500 days. So for the next year and a half or so, I'm set for ivermectin 'cause it was costing me. You know, 100 a prescription for 90 days in Tennessee, and I got the 1, 000 pills for about 120, 130 through India Mart, and at the time, I was talking to Dr.
Paul Mann: Merrick, and I was like, I was kind of worried about if they're legit pills through India or not, and he's like, ivermectin is so cheap. It would be more expensive to sell you fake stuff, fake pills than real pills. They're, they're, they're just fine. So that's, that's my plan out. And that's part of the study at the time at the moment right now, no one knows how much ivermectin to take and no one knows how often to take it.[00:27:00]
Paul Mann: This is, it's just kind of the, I'm like, I guess because of Dr. Ruddy, I'm the first human to purposely take ivermectin. for COVID, for cancer. And she, she was suggesting about 20 milligrams or so. Uh, the way I was dividing pills, I was probably, I was, I know I was under that. I just don't know how much under that, but now since I'm, I have these 12 milligram pills, I can more, more, you know, confidently take the same amount every single day in a known quantity.
Paul Mann: So that's part of Dr. Merricks. He just got approved for his studies and that'll be part of his studies is how much and how often.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, that's something we really need to know, you know, would 12 milligrams be just as good as 30 or is there a sweet spot where you go more and it's less of it? We don't, yeah, that's something that hopefully Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Merck can figure out. No one
Paul Mann: knows. Right. No [00:28:00] one knows yet. Hopefully people have the same results. I've, I've seemed to have with Ivermectin, uh, like at the FLCCC conference, you know, Dr. Ruddy, he said, you know, she said, let me make it clear. When I first came in contact with Paul, he was circling the drain and now he's not.
Paul Mann: So that was her, her quote.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. I remember that. It just shocked me to the core and then to see you standing there.
Paul Mann: And now. Despite everything, you know, I'm last I know based on my last scans, which were about nine months ago, you know, I still have cancer in quite a few places, but I, I'm doing much better. Everyone I know tells me I'm looking better. Uh, at the time I started taking ivermectin, I w I was gray. I might look great in the light now, [00:29:00] but in person, I look a little more pinkish and, but I was, I looked gray, like concrete color and I'd lost a lot of weight.
Paul Mann: At one time I was in hospice. They thought I was going to die. I thought I was going to die. They had a minister come in to talk to me about dying and, and, you know, if I was ready to meet my maker and I just kept waking up and I kind of got better and they kind of released me from hospice. And I remember I told the nurse one time that maybe I was too dumb to die.
Paul Mann: You know, I was like, maybe I don't know how to die. I just keep waking up every day and here I am. And she's like, oh, no, you're, you're a good fighter. You're doing real good. And I was like, I don't really think I'm a fighter. I'm just taking a ride. Like I'm on a roller coaster, but I don't know. Here I am.
Paul Mann: And despite everything, With all the changes to diet, with [00:30:00] the ivermectin, with all the other things, I'm living the best life I've lived in years, so.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And what is the personal side of it look like to you, if you're willing to get into some of that, like, how has it changed your daily routine? How is it, you know, do you appreciate things differently?
Paul Mann: I do appreciate things quite a bit more. I don't let little things get to me. And I don't get let most of the big things get to me too. You know, people, I hear people complain about this or that or whatever. And you're like, that's really not. In the grand scheme of things, whatever you're complaining about, you know, I was basically on death's door to the point where they brought a minister in to talk to me about meeting God.
Paul Mann: So if someone's driving a little slower in front of me in the highway, that's not a big deal. Or if I spill something, that's really not a big deal. [00:31:00] It just, I'm kind of like a cat now. Nothing seems to bother me, I guess.
Paul Mann: That's wonderful. Yeah, you just gotta appreciate life a little bit more. Don't let things get to you. You know, it's, it's, it ain't nothing but a thing. It'll pass. Whatever your problem is, it'll pass. There are, there are people with a whole lot worse problems. No matter how bad your problem is, there are people with even worse problems that are cheerfully living through their day.
Paul Mann: And, you know, Just use them as an example and just try to have a cheerful heart.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Are spiritual things important to you? They are now.
Paul Mann: Uh, you know, I grew up. Went to church, but then like, you know, I got, I got married and had kids and kind of fell out [00:32:00] of it and all for quite a while. And then maybe in about December of 22, I just, I just, one morning I was just like, I need to start going back to church.
Paul Mann: And within a week, I have this long term friend, we got hired at the agency at the same time, but then he went his own way. And we kind of, we would cross paths every 10, 15 years or whatever. And uh, we would just pick up like we saw each other yesterday. And within a few days of me deciding, you know, I want to go back to church.
Paul Mann: This guy I knew from Rob, he just kind of connected in my life again, just kind of happenstance. And he's like, Hey, I go to this church real close to you. Do you want to go? And I was like, I do. So, you know, it just kind of fell in my lap of, and, uh, it's been a great family for me and a great support group.[00:33:00]
Paul Mann: And, you know, I enjoy going, I really like going.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's wonderful.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Is there anything else that you want to leave us
Paul Mann: with?
Paul Mann: Uh, you know, just don't give up. I had a tattoo put on my arm that said, I won't give up. I won't give in. And you know, some days are really hard. Some days are hard, but
you know,
Paul Mann: a little bit easier. I, I still doing things is still rather painful. But I get up and do them at work. They gave me the option, like, we can find something for you to do from home.
Paul Mann: If you would, if you'd rather work from home, I was like, no, I think working from home would be the end of me going to work. It gives me a reason to get up, gives me a reason [00:34:00] to take a shower in the morning, you know, I go to work, I take part in meetings, I contribute. Uh, I interact with people in the office and I think to the best of your ability.
Paul Mann: Keep doing what you were doing. It might be more painful. It might take you longer to do those things, but don't, don't let cancer take things away from you. Just keep doing what you were doing, how you were doing it and just keep living your life and don't give up and don't give in. Just keep plugging along the best you can and have a good, I think that helps with your attitude.
Paul Mann: Interacting with people helps, and I think overall, you know, continuing to live your life pretty much as close to the way you were before, I think has a lot to do with your health. I think your [00:35:00] attitude and your spirit have a lot to do with it. Absolutely. 100%.
Paul Mann: You know, if you think you're going to die and you think this is the end, you're probably going to figure out somehow to make that happen. And if you think, nope, you know, I've got plans for next week. I'm going to do those. I got plans next month. I'm going to do those. You just seem to, you know, stick around and make those things, those plans happen.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is such an uplifting story. My best piece of advice
Paul Mann: is just don't give up.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah.
Paul Mann: Just keep plugging forward and don't give up.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's so uplifting to hear you. You talk about this and how you're going through the thick of it and you still are looking up. I think that's wonderful.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I will say that [00:36:00] when I saw you at the FLCCC conference, I would never have believed that, that you had hospice called, that you had, um, you know, had stage four cancer because you don't look like it. You can usually, as you mentioned, you look great before, but you didn't look great when I saw you. And you can usually tell when people.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Have that kind of medical illness going on?
Paul Mann: Uh, before I started the ivermectin, before I started some at the end, some of my friends since here recently have told me you looked terrible at one time. We were really worried, you know, that you weren't going to last much longer. Now you look, you look great. Yeah. Most people would not know, or, or guess when they look at me now,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: so, well, Paul,
Paul Mann: it's all, yeah, the attitude, the ivermectin, the change of diet. It's all, I kind of think [00:37:00] it's, it all works together. You take traditional medicine, you do your alternative medicines, you do your, your dietary changes. You got to work at it just as much as the doctors work at it. And I think it all works together as one.
Paul Mann: So just try everything.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Absolutely. I agree. It's not just, it's just not the diseased organ. It's the patient there too. It's, it's the body, it's the mind, it's the spirit. And all of that has to be fed and taken care of. It does.
Paul Mann: And I still, attitude is a huge part of it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Absolutely. And
Paul Mann: it's sad and it's depressing.
Paul Mann: And I had moments, you know, I was very distraught when, you know, my traditional treatments ended. I was very distraught at different times, but, you know, I kind of took [00:38:00] my time, got my got the air under my wings again. And, you know, so it's not all roses. You'll have up days and you'll have really bad down days, but over the span of time, things will work out.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Paul, thank you so much for sharing your story, for letting me be able to immortalize this on video. And, uh, I'll definitely let you know when this gets published and perhaps Oh, I'd love to. Perhaps when you're, you get those scans, if things are looking good, uh, or if they're not, and you're willing to share, uh, with, I'd love to have you back and to talk about it.
Paul Mann: Another thing I want to say, uh, tell people that's very helpful at the beginning. I only told a few people at work that would see me because they, I would show up with no hair over, you know, they would know. [00:39:00] You know, they go, where the hell's Paul all this time? He's never here. So I had to tell them what was going on and why, but I didn't tell any of my friends, didn't tell anyone.
Paul Mann: And, uh, I was, I was in the hospice ever, you know, everyone thought I was going. And then when I got, When I survived hospice, I got home. This was late December of 22. And, uh, I decided I was going to create this. I thought it was going to be just for me and kept secret. I was going to create this photo album on Facebook.
Paul Mann: To where only I could see it. I wanted it posted somehow after I die because I didn't want to die and people to not know what I had gone through. So it was like a whole lot of photos taken of me throughout the year in the hospital and hospice getting infusions. Having my hair shaved all sorts of things like [00:40:00] that, but, uh, I created this photo album thought it was just for me only saved it and went to bed and got up the next day and found that I had kind of posted it for everyone to see.
Paul Mann: Yeah, so I didn't get off Facebook for, like, another 3 days. I was just mortified. But, uh, after that. The love and support from all the friends and all the people who knew me and stuff was just overwhelming. And since that point, I just shared everything. Every time I went to for scans, every time I got scan results, every time I went for something like a spinal block or, or a treatment, I would post it, you know, and I tell people, There's a big shame of cancer patients for getting cancer.
Paul Mann: I don't know why that is, but it kind of seems to run the gamut that people [00:41:00] with cancer or have shame about it. And just let people know, and you'll be surprised on how much love and support you'll actually get from everybody. And I think that accidental sharing of all those photos was probably the best thing that happened to me in this whole thing.
Paul Mann: It was, you know, I was mortified when it happened. I could have, like, jumped off a cliff or something, but actually, in the long run, that was telling, letting people know, even if it was by accident, was the best thing that happened and it's the best thing that could have happened. So share with your friends, share with your family, and they will be, you will be surprised.
Paul Mann: I have support. You get from everybody.
Paul Mann: What a wonderful mistake that you made there.[00:42:00]
Paul Mann: And it's kind of educational for other people because all people really know is that, okay, you have cancer, you get chemo and chemo makes you throw up, but they don't really know what it's like to be laying on the radiation table when everyone leaves and they shut like a four foot thick lead door and you're stuck in there by yourself, or they don't know what it's like.
Paul Mann: Some might, you know, to be like, to wake up at three in the morning, you've been in the hospital two and a half weeks and it's just so cold that you can't go back to sleep and you're just, you know, you might get a visitor for an hour a day or something like that, and how lonely it is to be in there and, you know, people just don't understand or know a lot of these things, so.
Paul Mann: You know, I just tell them, okay, this is how this treatment goes. This is what they do. Some of it's kind of gross, but this is what happens, you know, and I think it also gives people a better understanding of what cancer patients go [00:43:00] through.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How can people find you if they're looking for you, if they want to give you encouragement?
Paul Mann: Uh, I'm just on Facebook, Paul Mann. I'm wearing a white shirt with a red tie, so, in my profile picture. But, I mean, I don't think there's that many Paul Manns on there, I don't know.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Paul, I want to thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your story and taking the time. Thank
Paul Mann: you for inviting me.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, uh, I'm going to be praying for you and I hope my audience will be as well.
Paul Mann: I'm sure they will. And thank you. I want to thank everyone for their prayers and support as well.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay. God bless.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you, Paul.
Paul Mann: Thank you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, the duty uniform of the day, I'm The full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.[00:44:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if we compare What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it. It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price [00:45:00] value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. That's MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours.
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126. Dr. Philip Buckler, The Book On Masks
Today I talk with Dr. Philip Buckler about masks. Dr. Philip Buckler is a dentist and he wrote the premier resource on masks and their effectiveness or more accurately the lack of effectiveness in preventing any illness. Please purchase his book at: https://www.amazon.com/Book-Masks-Comprehensive-Manipulative-Misrepresented-ebook/dp/B0CN5CQKC9
If you like my t-shirt please get one here:
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126. Dr. Philip Buckler, The Book On Masks
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Dr. Philip Buckler: [00:00:00] When people say the science is overwhelmingly in favor of masks, they're either lying or don't know what they're talking about, because the science is overwhelming, but it's all in the opposite direction.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines, it's raised in the USA, it's processed in the USA, in fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if we compare, What we can buy from River Bend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it. It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and [00:01:00] it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out mycleanbeef.com/Afterhours. That's mycleanbeef.com/afterhours, mycleanbeef.com/afterhours.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed I've been wearing this t shirt for a few episodes now, I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything,
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now, to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, thank you for joining us again. I first want to [00:02:00] give a shout out to my Patreon supporters. We've got 2Tough giving 30 a month. We have an anonymous family donor giving 20. 20 a month. We have the Plandemic Reprimando tier that gives 17. 76 a month with Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna, Frank, Brian, Shell, Brantley, Gary, and Sharon. We have a Self Made level at 10 with Kevin and Patton Bev. We have the Refined Not Burned tier at 5 with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. Addison Mulder is giving 3 a month and Frank is giving 1. 50. And in the Courage is Contagious tier at 1 a month with Jay, SpessNasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, and Caleb.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I want to thank you so much for contributing. If you're interested in contributing to help me continue to bring this product forward, go to my Patreon page. Uh, and become a supporter. Also, check out MyCleanBeef. com slash after [00:03:00] hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours for some of the best beef that I've certainly ever tasted.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: My next guest is, uh, he's a dentist, and he's written this book. This book is worth every second of either listening to or reading. And if you can see, this is, this is not an easy book. I almost knocked over my, um, auditory, um, my audio board just picking it up. Um, but this is, we have Dr. Philip Buckler on.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now, sir, thank you so much for joining me. I, I'm about 75 percent weight done with this book, and I wish I would have had this. I wish you could have written it four years ago because I would have used this as evidence to never wear a mask.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah, I, I wish, I wish there had been a book like that four years ago, and thank you for that very kind intro.
Dr. Philip Buckler: It's, uh, unfortunately to my, well, there are a few books out there, um, I can't, uh, but nothing, nothing like, uh, nothing quite to that extent. I was, I'm, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants when it comes to that book, and I just [00:04:00] wanted to, to make a, to make a book like that that would, well, that hopefully will prevent this from ever happening again, or at least push us more in that direction.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, your book is actually, I've used it because I had a patient in the clinic that I work at say, Oh, I want my doctor and staff to be wearing a mask. And I was able to use the evidence in this book, um, to definitively say, you know, ma'am, sir, you may wear a mask if you would like, uh, me and my staff will not wear them as they are dangerous and harmful.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh, I'm so happy to hear that. That's great. I just wanted to make a handy reference so people could do stuff like that, uh, because Yeah, and what I,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: what I love about this also is not only do you get into the science of it, um, you know, being a doctor, being a dentist, you, you can get into the science of it and, and give good, um, explanation of what's going on.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But, because you've also raised your hand And taking an oath to defend the constitution and we can get into that portion of as much as you want. Um, you understand a [00:05:00] lot of the, the amendment rights that are going on, the rights of different rights that are being violated. And, and you get into that in the about the last half of the book.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah, that, uh, that actually turned out to be the largest subsection of the book just because, uh, once I actually started reading all these court cases in the precedents, I, I realized that it's, It, it's just outrageous. What, what, what was done. Um, every, every judge that ruled that mask wearing a mask is not a form of speech was just wrong.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And that just, it, I'd say it's in a clear error of law.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So tell us a bit of your story. You know, as much as you want to, obviously you're, uh, you have some things going on and, and any, anything you say reflects only what your opinions and no one else's. Um. But what got you to this point to start writing this book?
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh, thank you. Yes. Well, I, I don't really go into my own personal story in the book just because I wanted to keep the focus [00:06:00] off me and on the issues. But as far as, as far as my own status goes, uh, I am, uh, I'm currently a dentist in the army. And, uh, I, uh, until I finished listening to your podcast a couple episodes a few weeks ago, I thought it was the only person in the army, the only medical provider who'd, uh, said no to masks for reasons of, of conscience ultimately, and sincerely held religious belief.
Dr. Philip Buckler: But I, I essentially, you know, like a lot of the soldiers who, who had to, um, wear a mask, I, I kind of towed the line and did what I had to, to stay out of trouble. But it, I would argue that I was, that I was eventually convicted by the Holy spirit gradually and persistently, that this was not something that I should be doing.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And Part of that was because as I did more and more research for the book and learned about it and learned everything there was to know about masks, my moral duty in respect to wearing, not wearing them, I think actually changed [00:07:00] based on my level of knowledge. So I'm, I'm just one of the thousands of people.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Soldiers that kind of went through that process and got denied and then, uh, went through the elimination paperwork on that. And some of those outcomes were, were good. And some of them, uh, some of them were not so good. And, uh, my, my own elimination board, uh, I believe it was at least two out of the three that chose to the selected to retain, but it was, uh, it was, it was rough.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. It's interesting how all of these, these fights in the military, maybe not all of them, but the overwhelming majority of them go up to this line of what you and I would probably consider. Injury, but just short of what the law or the court system seems to consider as injury I don't know if it seems like them retaining you as a way to say well, we didn't hurt him.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We didn't harm him We didn't do anything wrong to him. We just you know made him not see patients for you know, however long for me It was almost two years. I didn't see a patient and yeah, that is harmful. That makes me lose my [00:08:00] skills
Dr. Philip Buckler: You could feel your skills decomposing as, as you go on. And then you're not seeing patients is used against you in your officer evaluation report.
Dr. Philip Buckler: At least it wasn't in the one that I got, that got me to the elimination board. So it was kind of a no win situation, but you've, you've been through all that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, so there are some things from the book that I really wanted to ask you about, um, some of the studies that you talked about, cause, uh, the Solomon Ash study.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if you could get into that a bit,
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh, yeah. So, um, I actually really enjoyed writing the psychology section. I thought that was as important if not. Well, I don't want to say it was more important than the than the physical science as far as infection control and side effects, but I'd say it was at least equally important just because.
Dr. Philip Buckler: All of the classic behavioral psychology studies by Solomon Ash, the group conformity studies, where even if you just do [00:09:00] passive social pressure, you will get a large number of people to conform to doing something masks were a perfect illustration of that. And when you tack on additional social pressure or punitive type pressure.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Pressure as in like you are a bad citizen. If you don't wear a mask, well, that just ups the compliance. And so Solomon Asch did some of the classic early studies on that, where he had people look at a series of lines and in, but the trick, the catch was they had to say, Uh, whether these lines matched out loud out of a multiple choice question and everyone else in the, uh, kind of in the little study group was an accomplice who were pre predetermined to give the wrong answer at several certain points.
Dr. Philip Buckler: So what ash was looking at was whether, whether, um, The, the study subjects themselves would go with the group or whether they would kind of stick to what their, their own eyes were telling them and what they knew to be true, their own visual perception that they relied on on a daily basis just for judging distance and walking around without bumping [00:10:00] into things, how strong that group influence was and, uh, The majority of people did succumb in in at least a few cases, and some just some their perceptions actually warped to perceive the non reality that the group was advocating.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And so that was that was one thing I go into in the book. I talk about Stanley Milgram's experiments where how far people go in obedience to authority. Um, my own experience suggests that Stanley Milgram was right, even as more pessimistic predictions on that, and that's, that's true. That matches my own internal experience as well.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And then Philip Zimbardo, the author of the Stanford Prison Experiment, he, he kind of, uh, developed a lot of Milgram's experiments and wanted to see, like, how, how social roles and, um, kind of defined social influences can make, uh, otherwise good people or normally good people do, do really bad things. And Zimbardo was actually a consultant for the army when.
Dr. Philip Buckler: If you, [00:11:00] if you read his book, the Lucifer effect, uh, he was actually a consultant for the army after, after the Abu Ghraib, um, scandal went down. So he talks about some, some of the social factors that influenced and got soldiers to do the things they did in those cases. And based on my own experiences with masks, I don't necessarily know that I would have done any better than them.
Dr. Philip Buckler: To be honest, it's, uh, my, my own experiences left me very, um, Very, uh, kind of cynical, or at least with a much more accurate view of, of what I most likely would have done when faced with a lot of different historical situations, and a lot of those evaluations are not flattering. So it's, I really enjoyed reading about that stuff recreationally before all this went down, so I put it into the book because it was just watching these principles illustrated in live time, and I wasn't the only one who was, who was tracking these either.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Um, I, I cite that, um, that. Um, uh, the Twitter [00:12:00] wit, um, who's him, who goes by the handle bad cat, um, who, who posted that excellent illustration with a Venn diagram showing COVID policy at the central intersection of all the ash, Milgram and Zimbardo studies, and then got banned from Twitter for saying that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I remember in, when I was shortly out of residency, I, I was able to watch that, that movie that was about Milgram and his experiment. And I feel like when I was watching that, I was kind of like looking back on that experience. I'm, I'm wondering if that was what helped me make it through this and make the stand that I knew was right, rather than.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: succumbing to those peer pressures because it, you know, that it wasn't just a guy in a white coat standing there with the clipboard that pressured you and me and Kyle Robbins and all the people that have resisted this so far.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah. It was, it was much more than that. It was a bunch of [00:13:00] people with higher ranks were saying, we will punish you if you don't do this.
Dr. Philip Buckler: So it's, yeah. I mean, if, if you look at, if you look at the, the power of, of people acting in their own, in their own spheres of influence to enforce things like that, it, it gets incredible. Even even early experiments, just looking at professors and students found that, um, you can get, you can get students to shock innocent puppies repeatedly, electrically with genuine shocks, uh, just because the professor says so, even though the student's grades doesn't don't depend on it.
Dr. Philip Buckler: That's another one of the studies I cite in the book.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And. Yeah. And
Dr. Philip Buckler: yeah, it's
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: those people don't just have ranks, but they affect your pay. They can, you know, for like you, me, and for Dr. Kyle Robbins, they could start a process that could take away licensures to where it would financially destroy you and, and what you built for your entire life to be able to provide for your family.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah. And they can also sit and they can also sick a bunch of bureaucrats to comb through all of [00:14:00] your medical records and second guess every medical decision that you've made. And that's one of the way, that's one of the ways that you, that you shut up providers who are either right or disagreeing. Yeah.
Dr. Philip Buckler: You just, you, you run them through the process as punishment.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That is a interesting thing that you just mentioned that almost like you knew that that was happening to me, um, as that is still happening to me. I had a peer review and I. I asked for a, an appeal to that in November of 22, and I will find, and I'm outta the army now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Mm-Hmm, , August of 23, I got outta the Army, and this April of 22 or 24, so two years afterwards, I'll finally get my appeal.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh my goodness. That's, if I hadn't, if I hadn't observed everything over the last three years, I would find that almost unbelievable. But now I'm just, that's par for the course. That's just the way it works.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And it's, it, it, it, it'll drive you nuts.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And what's even more, I don't know how you handled
Dr. Philip Buckler: it, to be [00:15:00] honest, I was terrified
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: of going through that experience. What's even more infuriating is this entire thing. I have proof that it's, it's been done illegally and improperly and it never should have happened.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's fruit of the poisonous vine and, and it never should have started, let alone get to a point where they're trying to revoke privileges that I don't have. And now they want to, it's just,
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh yeah, it's enough about
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: me.
Dr. Philip Buckler: It broke privileges that you don't have. So they can retroactively revoke privileges and that can carry on later.
Dr. Philip Buckler: That's, that's new territory. Or it should be new territory, but
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: there was one thing you mentioned about the ACE receptors and wearing a mask that just, I really wanted to have you explain more and have the public be able to hear this, that you talked about dead space. You talked about CO2 and you talked about ACE receptors.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Do you does that ring a bell for you?
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh, yeah, that was the, that was almost a, um, I think that was a footnote, um, or one of the, or one of the sub paragraphs in the science, in the science [00:16:00] section where, uh, where there was a laboratory study that looked at, uh, Low oxygen or high CO2 conditions that increased the, at least in the laboratory, those increased the number of receptors whereby the ACE2 receptors that SARS CoV 2 could bind to the respiratory epithelial cells.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And so while I mean, it's a laboratory study and I'm always kind of cautious about those because so many bad laboratory studies were used to justify masking. And I cover a lot of those in the book too, especially the ones that CDC cited, but looking at this. But the point is when you look at studies like this, where it's like, okay, well, if these cells are being subjected to high CO2, low oxygen conditions, they're expressing these ACE2 receptors more.
Dr. Philip Buckler: That's just creating more binding sites for SARS, uh, for SARS. potential binding sites for SARS CoV 2. So if there was an objective evaluation of all, even the laboratory based evidence, that alone should have been enough to preclude forcing everyone to wear a mask because this evidence was out there too.[00:17:00]
Dr. Philip Buckler: And that pushed, you know, that kind of mitigated against the idea that having everyone wear a mask was, was a good idea.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And then, and then you go into, I don't remember if you do this first or after, but you talk about how. So it seemed time and time and time again that the areas that wore masks had higher rates of outbreak.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah, there was, the main bottom line was no statistically significant difference, but when you looked at the, when you like really drilled down into the data, um, The areas that wore masks did have either had no statistically significant difference or a slightly higher, uh, higher, uh, incidence of SARS CoV 2.
Dr. Philip Buckler: I mean, one of the, one of the most egregious examples of that was how, um, the, I want to say it was the Kansas public health domain published, uh, published in the CDC's non peer reviewed MMWR. Uh, publication, they tried to claim that masks were [00:18:00] associated with a decreased incidence or decreased acceleration in the rate of SARS CoV 2.
Dr. Philip Buckler: But when you actually looked at the infection rate of SARS CoV 2 in the non masked Kansas counties versus the mask mandate counties, you saw that the mask mandate counties. The non mask mandate counties actually started their study period with a higher incidence of covid. Um, it was about almost double the, uh, the mass mandate counties.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And then over the period of time that the study was conducted, the, the non masked counties actually had a slower rate of acceleration of SARS, Covey to and. They start and they finish the study with a lower overall rate of SARS CoV 2. So it, it's um, and I have the diagrams and all, all that and in that section of the book when I talk about that study, but that was just, that was just one of those examples.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And that's, and that was just one of the ones where you even had something resembling a control group. And if you look at, say, the great, uh, the work of Dr. Hogue, I quote, um, I quote a lot of [00:19:00] her studies because she did some excellent kind of reexaminations of some of the studies that the CDC was touting, saying, Oh, look, masks in schools work and we, you know, we analyzed all these and it's like, wait a minute, well, why'd you exclude all these other school districts in the state and elsewhere?
Dr. Philip Buckler: And when she pulled, um, when she and her colleagues pulled, uh, so about seven times the amount of data. In that the CDC was pulling and actually looked at it over a broader period of time. They saw that the CDC was really cherry picking the data. So the mask mandate schools actually had a higher, a slightly higher incidence of SARS CoV 2 again, not a statistically significant difference when you, when you actually looked at it, it was pushing in the direction of masks, having a slightly higher incidence of COVID.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I guess one of my contributions, I'm
Dr. Philip Buckler: sorry, go ahead.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It makes sense with what
Dr. Philip Buckler: you explained about the ACE receptors.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh, good. Yeah. And that was honestly, I think my primary science [00:20:00] contribution in the book was just to cover some of the, that little section on why masks don't work. That was just pulling together all, all of the kind of secondary effects of masks as and why would we potentially see an effect in the laboratory, but see the, this total non effect in the real world over and over and over again for the last hundred plus years.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And so that. That little section right there is listing some of the possible secondary effects that would neutralize or even, you know, completely counterbalance any, any potential filtration benefits, which I'm still personally skeptical of. Uh, that's, that was my, my contribution as far as listing all of those.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Cause oftentimes people won't believe you that masks don't work unless you can explain, well, why don't they work?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I don't think you got into this. I heard a, um, an engineer getting into how N95s work. The mass that's supposed to block 95 percent of particles, uh, that are, uh, what, 0. 5 microns and larger.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and it uses this, [00:21:00] these van der Waals forces. So if you imagine a mesh, but the mesh isn't small enough to catch everything. They have a slight negative charge. And when something flies past it, it sticks to the negative charge. And, which sounds great. It's, it's good to stop stuff from coming in. But not so much to stop stuff from coming out because it has to move away from your face, or you have to have a valve in there to allow it to come the air to come out.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then the issue is, is once you've been wearing it for a short period of time, the moisture from your breath will get that mask wet and neutralize that negative charge. And now it's no better than a surgical mask.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah. And I mean, as, as I'm sure you're aware, Well aware, every comparison between surgical masks and N95s has found no statistically significant difference in terms of efficacy for preventing any sort of respiratory disease.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And that includes the one that was done in multiple hospitals over a period of years that was partially funded by the CDC. [00:22:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a simple family medicine doctor's perspective on this is if you, um, look at how large of a particle that an N95 can stop. Thank you The smallest thing it can stop is, uh, I believe it's 0.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: 3 microns. It doesn't even stop smoke, uh, but the virus is 0. 15 microns. It's half the size. And so I think you use this analogy of using a chain link fence to keep the ocean back. And that's exactly what it is.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah. And in the, in the book, I had like a one page diagram where I actually did a scale mock up of the virus size comparison next to a 5 mm, 5 micrometer and 30 micrometer in 95 pore sizes.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And the virus is basically a pixel on the page that you can barely see compared to a very clear sized circle. So I, I thought that was, that was worth illustrating. And, um, Like you mentioned, the electrostatic charge filtration function sounds good in [00:23:00] theory, but that was, I mean, that was tested at least in a couple of laboratory studies, and they found that it didn't really make a big difference as far as viruses were concerned.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And then when you look at other lab studies, um, Showing that the, that SARS CoV 2 remained viable on, um, on mask material longer than, longer than almost any other surface. Well, that alone could, could counteract any filtration benefits. So, it's, I mean, the science, when people say the science is overwhelmingly in favor of masks, they're either lying or don't know what they're talking about.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Because the science is overwhelming, but it's all in the opposite direction.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, as a dentist, and I don't know, You know, I understand there's been some things that have been happening since then, um, as far as seeing patients. Um, do you, have you seen, or have you had concerns about, yeah, have you had concerns or seen people mouth breathing a lot more, contributing to dental caries and other dental disease?
Dr. Philip Buckler: I personally [00:24:00] haven't observed that a whole lot. I mean, there's not a, there's not a lot of, um, Kind of anatomical issues that good self care won't, uh, won't help as far as dental goes, at least as far as the basics are concerned. Uh, I have, I have heard of that and I've seen it reported, although I personally haven't encountered a whole lot of it, if any.
Dr. Philip Buckler: But I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to rule it out. I mean, I kind of mentioned it in the book, but I, I hadn't really been able to verify it, so I didn't. Uh, it was kind of a mention in passing sort of thing. As far as the book was concerned, I tried to stick to stuff that was in published scientific sources that even, even people who disagreed with me would be hard pressed to, to discount.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of information that you couldn't put in there. Otherwise I could have
Dr. Philip Buckler: really expanded the bibliography.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I'm sure there's plenty of things that you couldn't put in there just because you're limited to only being this size. [00:25:00]
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah, I mean, I'm, I mean, you already, as you saw, it is still a fairly intimidating size as it is. So I tried to make it as accessible as possible. And there's just something about seeing it in, in print that kind of emphasizes the, the sheer volume.
Dr. Philip Buckler: But, you know, it's, it's about a 17 hour audio book and, um, I'm. Uh, if, if anyone's concerned about cost or anything like that, just email me at Philip Buckler at the book on masks. com and I'll send you a, a digital PDF with all the live hyperlinks because I, I hyperlink each one of the sources. I want to, I want people to be able to check every, everything in that book.
Dr. Philip Buckler: I don't want them to take my word for anything,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: but I also want to encourage people. Go buy it. I'm actually
Dr. Philip Buckler: rather proud of that PDF.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Please go buy it. Give him appreciate that. Give him the money.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh, Yeah, all proceeds will go directly towards funding my, my, um, my legal actions as far as, um, trying to ensure that this never happens again and hopefully establish a precedent that benefits all, all service members and [00:26:00] Americans.
Dr. Philip Buckler: I know that's a long shot, but it's, it's a shot that's worth taking.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Are you able to talk about some of your, your legal endeavors? So that's where the
Dr. Philip Buckler: proceeds are going.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We, we share a common thread as we, we found out recently that we're using the same lawyer and, uh, which is, which is great because my lawyer is amazing and he's one of the best ones that I've, I've ever come across.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Uh, but are you able to, um, talk about any of the cases that you're involved in?
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, there matters of public records, so people can just go look them up. Um, I'm currently suing Lloyd Austin and company in the, uh, Western District of Texas over the masking issue. Specifically for violations of the First Amendment Religious Freedom Restoration Act and the Administrative Procedure Act and in my complaint, I'm I'm alleging that, you know, compulsory masking is a violation of First Amendment speech and also First Amendment free [00:27:00] exercise.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And in, in the book, I articulate a lot of those speech arguments under the first amendment in a way that I don't think has actually been articulated in most of the lawsuits and certainly not in the, in the rulings dismissing those cases, because there's a lot of first amendment issues surrounding masks that just Are not covered in a lot of these cases, all the judges just kind of stuck there, stuck their ears or their fingers in their ears and said, la, la, la, I can't hear you or I refuse to hear you.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Therefore, you're not saying anything. But the fact of the matter is that under legal precedent wearing a mask. Or taking one off, depending on the context is a form of symbolic speech, but it's and so that alone should have been enough to trigger strict scrutiny under the First Amendment, but it's it's not just that it's you have a First Amendment right to not associate with speech with which you disagree and compulsory masking, uh, going beyond forcing you simply to associate with speech with which you disagree.
Dr. Philip Buckler: It actually overwrites It overwrites the speech that you want to [00:28:00] project. It forces you to project the message of whoever's trying to force you to wear a mask. And you also have a first amendment right to receive speech. So everyone's first amendment right to receive the disagreeing speech, especially of healthcare providers who were refusing to wear masks or objected to wear masks, everyone's first amendment rights.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And that. Respect were violated. And I don't think I've seen any lawsuits that alleged that. And finally, facial expressions are a form of pure speech. And that's never been ruled on in court, but that's just clearly obvious. That's one of the people communicate by facial expressions clearly and articulately from the, from the time that they're babies.
Dr. Philip Buckler: It's before they even learned written or vocal speech other than just, you know, basic vocalizations. So the fact that this, that any judge could even seriously contemplate trying to dismiss a First Amendment mass case just blows my mind. And I'll give some of them the benefit of the doubt because I don't think a lot of these issues were articulated as thoroughly as they could be.
Dr. Philip Buckler: You're [00:29:00] kind of limited in what you can do in an initial complaint. So those are some of the, um, those are some of the grounds that I'm, that I'm, that I'm arguing in my first amendment suit. And then for me personally, there's the religious freedom restoration act, which, which says that the government may not, uh, the government may not, uh, impose, burden a person's sincerely held religious practices, even from a rule of general applicability without satisfying strict scrutiny.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And a lot of these mass cases under first amendment grounds were like, Oh, a lot of the judges would just assert that the mask rules were neutral and generally applicable and therefore pass first amendment scrutiny. Uh, that was incorrect, but that's what they would assert. And, uh, in the religious freedom restoration act goes a step beyond that.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Uh, it was passed in response to another military case, uh, in the 1980s, Where, uh, the military kicked out, um, essentially a Jewish rabbi for wearing a yarmulke against regulations. And [00:30:00] that I read that case, and it's, uh, the dissent was the best part of that case. It was just, but unfortunately, that particular ruling got us where we are now.
Dr. Philip Buckler: But partially in response to that case, Congress passed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act to provide a more robust protection for people's religious rights under the First Amendment and kind of restore that strict scrutiny test. So in the case of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, that's oftentimes what in, I mean, you know, this is, uh, in some ways probably even better than I do, as far as the vaccine cases go, uh, that was what actually got the cases passed the motions to dismiss.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I was going to ask, um, I haven't finished your book. I'm about to. 25 percent left. But did you get into any of the EUA and the law, the emergency use authorization and masking in particular?
Dr. Philip Buckler: I touched on that, but in the footnotes. So that wouldn't show up in the audio book. Um, that it was, I felt that other people had done a really good job of covering [00:31:00] that.
Dr. Philip Buckler: So I didn't hit it as hard as I otherwise could, but it's, it's in the footnotes. Yeah. Good question. But the, the interesting thing about that is, you're absolutely right. They were. EUAs and I linked to those EUA documents too,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: and it was illegal to tell a service member to participate in any EUA product from the start before all this happened.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Mm-Hmm, . And it's 10 USC 1107 alpha. So masking testing and shots have all been covered under EUA. So even though people have been trying to get First Amendment coverage and religious coverage for these issues, it was already illegal to begin with.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh, yeah. And, and that was just ignored. That was one of the many frustrations. All this stuff just got ignored and it's, you can see how other bad things in history kind of developed and snowballed from there when all these essential principles and even the procedural protections just got ignored. If I hadn't lived through [00:32:00] it, I wouldn't believe it,
Dr. Philip Buckler: but yeah, that was, that was a good point to bring up.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And I know that's your particular area of expertise.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yes, sir. I, um, my case is, is more about fourth amendment and whistleblower protection act violations. Um, there was a first amendment issue when my commander told me that I cannot talk about COVID 19 vaccine or virus during the duty day or in uniform. Uh, because as, as a physician to be able to properly consent people, uh, or even discuss treatments for COVID.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I have to be able to discuss the vaccine and, and the virus.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah. I, I heard you talking about that and I was, I was just blown away, but not in a good way that that was [00:33:00] shocking, but not surprising after ever, after everything we've went through. So it's, that's, that just had to be so aggravating. I
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: think the most shocking thing of all was when, uh, in the investigate investigation that I endured, they, put in there that I was handing out constitute pocket constitutions as if I was some radical trying to turn people against the United States.
Dr. Philip Buckler: What? That's that makes, that makes zero sense. And also a nice job on those. I've got one next to my desk too. I'm just glancing up at it. Um, but yeah, that's how on earth would the, how would passing out Copies of the document that both of us swore to uphold possibly radicalized people.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, it's, that's how far we've come as military officers that [00:34:00] handing these out when you were sitting there trying to, uh, not be coerced into getting a shot is something that's bad.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah, it's, it's the times we live in. But God bless you for doing that. I, I was afraid of going through the experience that you had and that Dr. Robbins had, that was, that was my big, that was, it took me too long to do the right thing. Part of that was waiting on the bureaucracy to actually reject the, to reject the religious accommodation request, because anyone with two brain cells to rub together in 2021 could tell none of the armed, none of the armed services were acting in good faith when it came to those.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it took me entirely too long. And, you know, against my better judgment, I continued to wear a mask. And, and what's even more bothersome [00:35:00] is that There are claims that I would take off my mask when I was seeing patients at my previous duty station in Alaska. And they're actually bringing that against me, saying, Oh, he's incompetent because he disobeyed hospital policy that he had to wear a mask.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And the most upsetting part is I actually did wear a mask, and I never took it off in front of a patient so that no one could ever make that argument.
Dr. Philip Buckler: That policy was bad to begin with. As far as I'm concerned, and that's if it's your judgment as a physician that that that that would not have been a risk to the patient. I don't I think that's your prerogative as a physician to to make. I don't think that the hospital policy should override that. It's just this dogmatic application of hospital policy drives me nuts when it comes to stuff like that, because it's people who don't know what they're talking about making that policy when
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Huachuca and still active duty.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, I had to go get my teeth cleaned by the at the dental facility they have. [00:36:00] And the OIC of the dentist came out. He's a lieutenant colonel. And he said, you got to wear a mask. And I said, sir, You know, they don't work. I know they don't work. You also are now aware because I'm about to tell you that they're illegal for you to tell me to wear a mask under 10 USC 1107 alpha.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And he said, well, it's it's clinic policy. I said, that may be very well true, but your policy cannot supersede federal code. Let me think about this. He walks off about two minutes later, the hygienist comes back and takes me back and no mask. And there we go. And then about two weeks later, no more masking policy.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Well, I'm sorry we didn't run into each other in person. By that time, I wasn't in that clinic, but I would have loved to run into another major like you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The lieutenant colonel was not too happy.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Well, I mean, the dental corps split over like every other corps.[00:37:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What other things from the book do you really want to get out for the public to hear that you think are the most important issues?
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh, man, well, uh, One of my concerns now is just to try not to intimidate people with, with the size. It was really meant to be modular. It's more like four or five books that just happened to be kind of juxtaposed and, um, kind of, they are presented linearly.
Dr. Philip Buckler: So, so it does read best, um, from, from cover to cover, but you can really jump around as, as needed to the different sections, whether if you want to start in the science section or the psychology section or the philosophy section or the law section. Um, the, I think, I think you'll find the, the appendix where I detail my own, um, religious beliefs on, on those that finally got me to say no, um, even when I had had something more substantial than getting kicked out of Walmart by a policeman on the line, because that did happen for [00:38:00] refusing to wear a mask at one point, um, yeah, they caught me at the, at the checkout and wouldn't let me check out.
Dr. Philip Buckler: So then I just left and went to another Walmart and got all my groceries there, thereby spreading COVID according to their mentality. But as, as far as, um, what it it's really supposed to cover, um, what, whatever anyone is, is interested in, as far as this goes, I mean, the, the science was the most, the science was what everyone was arguing about because that's the easiest thing to argue about.
Dr. Philip Buckler: It's, it's kind of the tip of the iceberg, uh, so to speak, the, the real underlying issues like the, the beliefs that people have that, you know, if it. If it works, we can force everyone to do it. Um, flawed beliefs like that. Um, those tended not to get addressed as directly. You could see some argument. I, I, I cite some of the um, peripheral um, arguments because those were taking place.
Dr. Philip Buckler: But the, the philosophical arguments, the psychology of it, I really did enjoy going into that. That's definitely worth going into, if only to kind of arm yourself so you can see the same techniques [00:39:00] being used against you later on. Because I really think my recreational reading prior to 2020, uh, like your, your own, uh, having gone over the Milgram experiments, uh, that, that does kind of help prepare you so you can see when this stuff is coming and it, it might not be enough on its own to keep you from complying or falling for it, but it helps.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And, uh, and the, for me. Having all this knowledge, uh, all, all of the empirical science, psychology, all that wasn't enough to get me to finally say, no, it was the religious beliefs that I detail in the appendix because I was, because I was afraid it's I, I get it when, when people had, um, And it wasn't that I was afraid of COVID.
Dr. Philip Buckler: I was afraid of having the hammer dropped on me. And those fears were not entirely groundless, even though, even though I had a better experience than than the newer Dr. Robbins,
Dr. Philip Buckler: you know, when, when people, I, [00:40:00] um, The bottom line is I get it, um, when, when people, uh, complied and that might've been their moral duty at that point. Uh, I think, I think God laid very individualized moral duties and he called some people to stand up for this, um, particularly aggressively and other people, it was, it was permissible to comply and that they had other, uh, other things they needed to do.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Everybody had their own place in their own fight and their own place that God called them to be. And, you know, I was. either, either way for the, for the fight that I was put into, but I feel like I was groomed for this position. Um, through my whole life, God has, has made me to be someone who will.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: reason to, when I see something and go for it, whether it's, you know, that's harmed me in the past, you know, go in the wrong direction. But in this particular instance, it was a time such as this. Um, I was, so when I was at my previous duty station in Alaska, this is probably mid, [00:41:00] 20, maybe early 21, and I was having a discussion with another doctor and there was all these videos coming out by army doctor saying why I got the shot.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is why I got the shot because I love my family and I don't want my grandma to die and all this stupid stuff. And so, uh, I wasn't talking to my wife. Oh my
Dr. Philip Buckler: goodness.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I was talking to my wife and I said, you know, I want to make a video as to, uh, why I didn't get the shot to encourage people to not get it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and she told me, you know, Don't do that. You will be taken out of patient care and I was talking with another doctor colleague of mine and and he said, well, I told him that, you know, we're, we're almost in Venezuela and he said, no, this isn't almost Venezuela. We are in Venezuela because if we weren't in Venezuela, You would be able to make that video and not have to be, not to concern yourself with being kicked out of patient care for the rest of your life.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and it was, it was striking back then. I thought, nah, this guy's wrong. He's wrong. We're not [00:42:00] there yet. Boy, was he right? Boy, howdy, was he right?
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah, I, yeah, it's one of those cases where it's like, I want someone to be wrong, but not because I want them to be wrong. It's just, man, I hear you. And he was an army doctor.
Dr. Philip Buckler: That was one of the things cited in my book.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And he got the shot. He was all for the shot. And it was interesting, too. He said, Yeah, we get one and we get two, but if we ever get, you know, three or we get them every, every three months, it will be gene therapy at that point. And they can keep changing it a little bit over time and be able to change the human genetics even if we're getting them that often.
Dr. Philip Buckler: It was gene therapy from shot number one. That's the, well, man, but that's another, that's another example of how you get,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: he denied that it was gene therapy to begin with, but he said, well, if we're doing it every three or six months, then, then it's gene therapy.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Well, um, if, [00:43:00] Hopefully he stopped getting them now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah,
Dr. Philip Buckler: but yeah, it's, it's like that. It's the gradual successive steps. It's like, okay, well, if this goes one more step crazy, one more crazy step further, that's when I'll stand up. Uh, it's, yeah, that's, uh, you, you find yourself in a, in a place where you've, you should have stood up a long time ago.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Real fast.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Exactly.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And yeah, but I was so excited to hear about you and your podcast and, and other, other similar, um, doctors. Cause it's, it's also kind of an isolating experience. You think you're the only one. And that was the case where I was really happy to find out that I was wrong.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. I've, I've been pleasantly surprised anytime I found any medical, any medical professional, but even more so a military medical professional like Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: P Chambers. Um, And regrettably, he did get the shot, but he's he stood against it since the beginning. He's helped [00:44:00] thousands of Texas National Guardsmen from from getting the shot by giving them attic as adequate informed consent as we can give early on, got connected with Dr Teresa Long, who made a very public statement and tried to ground almost all of the Air Corps in the army.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Didn't go over well with her superiors, I have no doubt. No, it didn't. But, but God bless her for that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then Kyle Robbins, who stood up for, for night wearing the mask, and he was removed from patient care. Yeah. And he even went so far as to say, I will see patients outside, and that wasn't good enough.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Mm hmm. Yeah, I, I believe it because it's, it's, it wasn't about the science and that, um, I listened to your podcast with him and I mean, he even had Mr.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Petty, the industrial hygienist testify on, on his behalf and I'm sure, uh, I'm sure they raised the, the EUA [00:45:00] arguments and, and all that just fell on deaf ears. It was because it wasn't it wasn't about the science or the or the practicality or or it wasn't like whoever was calling the shots didn't care whether it resulted in half the half the patients who would normally be seen in a time period not getting the scene because I crunched those numbers.
Dr. Philip Buckler: It was it was it was about control and compliance
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: compliance
Dr. Philip Buckler: and worse. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: In the last few minutes here, what do you want to leave us with? What, what do you, and then, uh, once you're, once you say that, I want you to give us a good place where we can find where to get this book. I'll put the link that you tell us, I'll put it down on the bottom. I want to encourage everyone who's listening to get this.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Put this on your shelf. Um, if you have this in paper copy, no one can ever change it. It's in hard copy. It's in your house. You can [00:46:00] use it as a reference. You can use it as, as exciting, easy list reading or listening. But if it's on digital format, so I buy audio books, but I always have a hard copy to keep in my house so that someday my kids can read it, no matter what happens to digital devices.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If someone goes into my phone and, and steals it out of my phone, or someone goes into my phone and puts a, YouTube album, a YouTube album on my phone, they can't take this out of my possession unless they actually come to my home and take it, which will be a very challenging endeavor for them.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yeah, I'd be interested to see if that thing would stop a 22 caliber bullet.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Might, might be worth doing a trial with that. That was my copy. Final thoughts. Um, Well, uh, I mean, just thank you for the opportunity to talk about it because, um, I want to, my, my overriding objective is to get the information to as many hands as possible and to try to ensure that this never happens again.
Dr. Philip Buckler: So I don't want, um, like, like I said, just email me at philip buckler at the book on masks dot com. That's the website, the [00:47:00] book on masks dot com. Uh, and, and if, if, It's a problem. I'll shoot you the the PDF the pub and and links to the audio books. But if if you do buy a copy, then great. I appreciate that too.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Because it supports my legal efforts to hopefully, hopefully create a precedent that benefits every American. And like I said, I know these are long shots, but you work with what you have. And it's been a wild ride, but it's one that I, it's one that my main regret is not doing it sooner and harder. At the same point in time, it's also been very tiring.
Dr. Philip Buckler: So, but it's, it's been good, good and good in the sense of, uh, Your faith really kind of grows and you, you don't, um, you don't regret it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. For us as a family, we, we thought at times it was too hard, but, um, yeah, there [00:48:00] was times where we thought we wouldn't get a paycheck and, and by the grace of God, we never went a month without a paycheck, you know, they threatened to take away my extra bonus for being a doctor because you're going to lose your privileges.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Didn't lose my privileges, you know, then, then they threatened, you know, then I. I get out and I don't have a job, then I find a job, then I get fired from that civilian job for going against shots when they knew when they hired me that I was against the shots. And in that same week, God gave me another opportunity where I can work in this place and it will be a future where I can work forever.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And the guy who owns it is a Christian and he believes the same as I do.
Dr. Philip Buckler: That's wonderful. Wow. And that answered a question that I had about, um, about where you were at right now. So, I mean, I'm so happy to hear that. Yeah. In
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: fact, they, when I brought them my CV, they said, This is the D. O. we've been looking for because, uh, the man who owns the clinic is a D.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: O. as well. [00:49:00]
Dr. Philip Buckler: Oh, that's great. Yeah. I've, I've started to develop some positive stereotypes about DOs throughout all this because disproportionate, a disproportionate, a slightly larger proportion of DOs has been good on this than, than MDs. So go
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: find yourself a good deal.
Dr. Philip Buckler: So take that for what, for what you will.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah.
Dr. Philip Buckler: Yes. DOs are great.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, sir, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for your stand. Thank you for, for joining us. Taking the time to write this, this is, this is a reference that I will keep on my, on my desk for when patients come in and say, Well you can't, you gotta be wearing a mask. No. No, take the time to look at the information, read it, it's here.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and you'll understand why I am so confident that I don't need to wear a mask and how it's harmful to me and to everyone around me.
Dr. Philip Buckler: And eventually, I have vague plans for a second edition in five or six years. We'll see, because I'll need to add a few more [00:50:00] studies, but it's big enough already. But yeah, thank you.
Dr. Philip Buckler: There was hardly a session of that book that did not begin with prayer. As far as writing it goes.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, I'm honored and blessed to have you on the show. And I'm honored to find other men, other Christians, to be standing up alongside. That I can stand next to. And we can lock arms and, and stop the evil and assault it rather than be assaulted by it.
Dr. Philip Buckler: The honor is mine. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you. Keep doing the great work on your end. I'm looking forward to more of your podcast episodes.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, in duty uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.[00:51:00]
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125. Chris Clagett, How the COVID Shot Can Cause Cancer
Today I talk with Dr. Chris Clagett, MD, MPH. Dr. Clagett is a retired Navy Preventive Medicine Physician. He talks about the Declaration of Military Accountability (DMA) and he talks about the disastrous COVID-19 shots that can cause cancer in at least 7 different ways.
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125. Chris Clagett, How can it cause cancer
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Dr. Chris Clagett: [00:00:00] You talked about, you know, mechanisms by which the injectable genes cause cancer. I think I can tick off seven. The one mechanism by which they outright cause cancer is by reverse integration into the chromosomes, the, the nuclear genome. The problem is one, you cannot control the location of the integration.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And this is why gene therapy has always, always, always failed. They can't control the site of integration. Gene therapy is associated with cancer.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised in the U. S. A. It's processed in the U. S. A. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then taken to their [00:01:00] butcher, and then shipped to you. And if we compare, What we can buy from River Bend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it.
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Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff.
Nurse Kelly: On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question
Nurse Kelly: everything.[00:02:00]
Nurse Kelly: And to have the courage to stand for the
Nurse Kelly: truth. And now, to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I want to for joining me again. I first want to give a shout out to all my Patreon supporters. We've got Too Tough giving 30. 00. A month, we've got the anonymous family donor giving 20. 20 a month. And then we have the plandemic reprimando giving 17. 76 a month with Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr. Anna, Frank. Brian, Shell, Brantley, Gary, and Sharon. We've got Kevin giving 10 and Pat and Bev giving 10 a month. We have the Refine Not Burn level at 5 with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, and Matt. Marcus, Elizabeth, Don, Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. We have Addison Mulder giving 3 a month, and Frank giving 1. 50. And then finally, Courage is Contagious level at 1 a month with Jay, SpessNasty, Durell, Susan, and BB King and Caleb.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I want to [00:03:00] thank you all so much for helping me get these episodes out to you. You'll get an extra special sneak peek of these before they actually get aired. Also, check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours for some of the best beef that I've ever had. My next guest, I have Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Chris Kleggett on, and he is a, um, Preventative health physician. So what he does is he specializes in learning what diseases are out there and how to help prevent from them spreading and he knows all about those types of things. Chris, it's so glad to have, I'm so glad to have you on.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Sam, thank you. Thank you for the privilege to speak to your audience.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So let's get into what you wanted to talk to talk about today.
Dr. Chris Clagett: What I wanted to talk to your audience about is the Declaration of Military Accountability, which they may be familiar with, at least some of them. And the reason I think that [00:04:00] this is so important, that we hold government accountable. Uh, officials, whether military or civilian, accountable for their lawless actions is because of the harms that they, their, their actions have caused.
Dr. Chris Clagett: You know, if you're, if you're in, you know, say some civilian, civil action, you've had a, you've had a motor vehicle accident. and you're being sued. Uh, the, the, the plaintiff is, is asking for damages that are based on, um, the harms caused to the plaintiff. You know, is there a little bit of fender bender, somebody physically injured, injured, or was somebody in which, you know, and the, the penalties go up commensurately.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Well, with the injectable genes, we have had not only military members, but you know, civilians across the United States, not only have incur life altering vaccine injury, [00:05:00] shouldn't really call it a vaccine. It's, it's an injectable gene, call it a vaccine because that's the common parlance, uh, in the national conversation.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Uh, but they, they don't resemble any historical vaccine. They are, they're a gene, a full gene. 3, 600 nucleotides that code for a 1, 200 plus amino acid protein. No, no vaccine in, in the history of vaccinology has ever attempted to do this. These, these genes that are injected, uh, have not only caused life altering injury, but they've killed many people.
Dr. Chris Clagett: This, this, these, these effects, these, these injuries and deaths, they, they span, uh, American society. Uh, they're not limited to the military. In fact, we probably have fewer, uh, injuries, but the reason the DMA is important is because we need a win. The American [00:06:00] legal system, uh, leans very heavily on the twin principles of precedent and analogy.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And if we can find someone guilty in a court of law for harms caused by either forcing someone to. uh, receive the in the gene injections, uh, and be harmed or killed by them. Then, then there is almost no, uh, place we cannot go in the legal system. Uh, the, I think of the DMA as the, the mall that will split the law.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And, and the reason I think we should start here with, uh, admirals and generals have ordered subordinates to, uh, receive these experimental biologicals on pain of punishment under the UCMJ [00:07:00] or, uh, dismissal from military service with an other than honorable and even dishonorable punishment. uh, characterization of service, which will have lifelong, uh, impact on a person's employability.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So there were many members who, under threat of these, these, uh, adverse actions against them, did take the, uh, indectable genes. They were harmed thereby or killed. And so I guess what I, what I wanted to do is first, uh, go through with you how we know that these, these injuries have occurred. And I'm in preventive medicine and one of the large areas of our, our discipline is, is epidemiology.
Dr. Chris Clagett: The nice thing about epidemiology is that it sometimes allow us, allows us [00:08:00] to understand that a phenomenon is there. and is happening without being fully, uh, cognizant, having fully identified the mechanism of the phenomenon. So, the, the epidemiology, uh, makes, uh, the case for these harms. I'll give you, I'll give you, uh, an example, a historical example, personal, uh, that I was involved in, how the epidemiology makes the case.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Uh, May 2010, we had a small detachment of CBs, 20 people, In the Camorra Islands, that's a small archipelago, uh, between Madagascar and, uh, the African continent. They were there to build a school for the locals. win hearts and minds, that kind of thing. Uh, so May 2010. Now, important history backing up from that was that in [00:09:00] December 2009, right before Christmas, we had a CB from the same task force, uh, who was medevaced to, I think it was, uh, Ramstein, Germany, or Landstuhl actually is the major medical center there.
Dr. Chris Clagett: with malaria. Uh, he had been, uh, I can't remember where he was deployed to, where he acquired his malaria. He, uh, went to sick call with the usual, uh, prodrome for malaria, very vague headache, a little fever, maybe. Maybe, maybe not even a fever, but headache didn't feel good. They gave him, uh, Motrin for headache and then sent him back to his barracks S.
Dr. Chris Clagett: I. Q. for a day. Come back and see us tomorrow if you're not better. He was found the next day unresponsive in his room. He was medevaced to where he died one week later of cerebral malaria with, uh, Basically, [00:10:00] no circulation above, above this point of his head and his anti malarial medications were in his pocket.
Dr. Chris Clagett: He wasn't taking his pills. So fast forward to May, 2010, the, uh, CBs from the same task force are deploying again, they go to Comoros Islands, it's known that there's malaria there and the independent duty corpsman. has been taught knows that he's the fall guy if anybody gets malaria. So he's got a color coded spreadsheet by name and date and color coded by, you know, which antimalarial they were taking.
Dr. Chris Clagett: We used a combination of mefloquine and hydroxycycline and he was recording, he was literally watching people swallow their pills. Nevertheless, uh, after they'd been there a few months, uh, a couple of them got sick. Now, uh, falciparum malaria can give you almost any [00:11:00] symptom constellation, depending on where in the body those parasites go.
Dr. Chris Clagett: They went to the Host Nation Lab. The Host Nation Lab did a, uh, uh, they took a finger stick, got a thick and thin smear, looked at it, and they said, we see malaria parasites in the blood. They, then they got a bunch of people tested. And, uh, the Host Nation Lab said that they saw four or five more people.
Dr. Chris Clagett: that had parasites in the blood and even quantified the parasitemia. So they were all medevacked back to Djibouti where they came out of. And, uh, I was, uh, sent, uh, to go do the on scene investigation. By the time they got, by the time I met them, they were all clinically resolved. Um, one of our, one of our preventive medicine units swooped in, grabbed some blood, took it back to the research lab in Cairo and, uh, where they, when they ran.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Uh, blood [00:12:00] looking for, uh, antigens. They found 13 of the 20. Uh, no, 8, 8 of the 20 had detectable plasmodium antigens and 13 of the 20 had detectable plasmodial DNA. So they were running PCR and, and people up and down Europe and the East coast of the U. S. were all hyperventilated that, you know, we got more malaria again.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So I, this is where the epidemiology comes in. Again, these guys are all healthy by the time I meet them. This is a record review. So I, I, I find that these guys have been trickling into country over a period of, uh, took a couple of months. And interestingly, their symptoms all began within 40, a 48 hour window, two days, a two day span Monday through Wednesday.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And And then I looked at, you know, what symptoms did [00:13:00] people have? Interestingly, none of them had a fever. That's the number one symptom for malaria. Number one. Uh, it's almost, it's almost a sine qua non, uh, which is Latin for without which not. And none of them had a fever. They'd all been there. for months.
Dr. Chris Clagett: They're a bunch of more smokers. They would go out at night getting, getting their last cigarette before bedtime. So they had asynchronous, asynchronous exposure. Now in the United States, we've had cases of, um, synchronized onset of malaria, but these were all like Boy Scout jamborees and symptom onset was synchronized.
Dr. Chris Clagett: But then you go back in time and you find out that exposure was synchronized. You were all out in the woods, Southeastern United States, Southeastern US used to be a malarious area. And they would, and, and so they, they all had symptom onset, uh, within a very narrow window. [00:14:00] And so we had, we had just kind of a similar symptom onset with these CBs, except that exposure was not, was not synchronous.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So basically, bottom line, jumping down to it, there's basically epidemiology and the fact that none of them have fever. showed me that what they had with a gastrointestinal constellation of symptoms was they, they went out to eat in town and they got food poisoning. It was the malaria, then it was the, the epidemiology that made it.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So with the, with the epidemiology now looking at COVID and we look at all cause mortality, Because a lot of national data sets are corrupted by misattribution of, of cause of death. You can misattribute or genuinely err in the, uh, presumed cause of death, but there's no mistaking the corpse. You've got to, you have a dead person.[00:15:00]
Dr. Chris Clagett: So the, uh, national data sets being corrupted, the thing to look at is all cause of death or all cause mortality. We're going to look at, we're going to look at a couple of countries. We're going to look at, uh, New Zealand and the United Kingdom. I'm going to show you how all cause mortality kind of leads us to, um, well, it leads us to conclusions.
Dr. Chris Clagett: We'll discuss the data as we look at them. So I'm going to, with your permission, uh, Sam, I'm going to go ahead and share my, my first slot, uh, screen.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Okay, and we're going to share the window and share.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Okay, this is all caused mortality over a decade in New Zealand. [00:16:00] Now, if you remember, New Zealand was practically a hermit kingdom. They had severe lockdowns, uh, and they had universal vaccination. Now, here is, of course, the pandemic year. 2020. If we look left, we see that all cause mortality is slowly rising, basically in, in, uh, alignment with, uh, slowly increasing national population.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Interestingly, the pandemic year was, uh, lower than, uh, many of the, uh, the pre pandemic years. The first, the, the preceding three pandemic years. Okay. With the, uh, the, uh, SARS CoV 2 being touted as the, uh, the new Black Death, 2020 should have been much worse. But then, okay, so what [00:17:00] happened to 2021? The, the vaccines rolled out in January of that year, okay?
Dr. Chris Clagett: So, 2021 is about a 15, this is about a 15 percent increase, uh, No, that's not quite right. It's not 15%. I would have to redo the math. Uh, from 2020, and then you will see from 2020 to 2022, all cause mortality accelerates. So we should be, we should be seeing a reduction. If these injections, the gene injections are protective, we should be seeing a reduction in all cause mortality, or at least a return to, uh, the baseline trend, but that's not what happened.
Dr. Chris Clagett: We are, we are in an acceleration period. And then if we zoom in, I'm going to stop sharing this and share a different slide.[00:18:00]
Dr. Chris Clagett: We're going to look at how the, uh, how the New Zealand all cause mortality breaks down by vaccination status. These are, this is, uh, this is New Zealand government data that I'm showing you. Okay. Now, let's see. So, um, Yes, so the unvaccinated. Now, at first blush, this looks actually horrible for the vaccines, which we have to remember that the, the, the, the population is almost universally vaccinated.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Uh, very few New Zealanders successfully held out. So the important thing to look at is where, um, the, the proportion of these people, these individual groups, the fully vaccinated, [00:19:00] the boosted and the unvaccinated in comparison to their proportion in the population. Unfortunately, the New Zealand data do not give that to us in, in this chart, but I'm going to tell you that this chart mirrors what I'm going to show next, which we're going to jump over to the UK.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Okay. And so I'm going to stop sharing this one. And then switch over to the UK. Well, the reason for showing you multiple countries is because this is not a phenomenon isolated to one country share.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Okay. Um, I was going to start with one, but we'll start with two. This is in the UK. This is people who got. Two shots or more. And now you see here in [00:20:00] January, 2021, this is of course where the vaccines rolled out and then the proportion of the population and the proportion of the populations on the left.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Okay. The proportion of the population that have two shots now. So this is the proportion of the population has two or more vaccine shots. And this down here, this is the percentage of the population that are unvaccinated completely. The bottom curve is the proportion of the population that's unvaccinated as a portion of all cause mortality.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So we don't see, we don't see numbers of all cause mortality here. These are proportions. And the top line, this is the percentage of people 18 and over who got two shots as a percentage of all cause mortality. [00:21:00] Now the thing here is that to look at the difference in proportions, okay, 18 and overs that got two shots are 78.
Dr. Chris Clagett: 7 percent of the population, uh, at the far right, but they are 96 percent of the population. of all cause mortality. In other words, they are overrepresented among all cause mortality. These data are truly beautiful. This is, and I'll tell you, these are official government data, but the, the office of national statistics in the UK did not prepare this slide.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Raw numbers were taken off the UK website and used to prepare this slide. At the other end, the unvaccinated are 18 and a half percent. of population, but only 3. 3 percent of all cause mortality. They are underrepresented among all cause mortality. Now I'm gonna, that's gotta, let's see what [00:22:00] we got in.
Dr. Chris Clagett: There's a number to remember. These two curves are gonna be the same in the next slide. We're gonna look at people that got three shots. Let's see, and 96 percent minus, uh, 78. 9%, that's, uh, uh, 96 to 79 would be, uh, 27. Oh, bleh, old brain, getting tired. Um, 96 would be, that's 20%. Subtract another 1. 7%. So they are 18.
Dr. Chris Clagett: 3%. They're overrepresented by 18. 3%, right? Can I ask you a question? And now we're going to look at three. Yeah, go ahead.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Where are you going? So this 18 and up, they are, they're making up, they're overrepresented by 96 percent of the overall, uh, all cause mortality. If we looked at, and I don't know if you've, you've done this, but if we looked at the years before, what was that age group before?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Was that, [00:23:00] cause that age group, I wonder if there was a higher death rate in that age group. Is it just 18 and up till now? Until infinity, or is it 18 to 65, or is it 18 to 50 something?
Dr. Chris Clagett: 18 and up, 18 to infinity.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay. Because I wonder if there was a larger rate of death in a certain age group, and I don't know if you're going to get into that later.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But that would be very interesting to see.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Um, let's see. Um, Uh, those be, I think the German data, um, would be better for that, um, I would kneel on a haystack among my files. I did not prepare to, uh, share those charts. Um, but so I, I did the map. It's um, so they are overrepresented. 18 and over are overrepresented by 17.
Dr. Chris Clagett: 3 percent. So stop sharing this one. Toggle over. Share new file. [00:24:00] Yes. Okay. So we have the unvaccinated. Same down below. And now we have The proportion of people that got three shots, only 65 percent of the UK 18 and overs got three shots, but they are 91 and a half percent of all cause mortality. Now that superficially looks like, well, they're doing better because the people that got two shots were 90.
Dr. Chris Clagett: 6%, but that's not the calculation that we make. We make, let's see, 91 point 0.5, eh dang it. Clear menu, 1.5 minus 65, 91 point.
Dr. Chris Clagett: There's the difference here is 26.5%. And so the delta here [00:25:00] is larger than it was with people who only got two shots. And the delta for people that got two shots was larger than the delta of people who only got one shot. So what this, this beautifully illustrates to us is that there is a dose response curve between all cause mortality and vaccination shot by shot.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Only the UK data actually, uh, illustrate this, uh, this, this beautifully. Um, and because they, uh, ONS in the UK made it possible to, to compare VAX status, uh, to mortality. They kept records on who's vaccinated and how many. Here in the U. S., we stopped, we stopped keeping records on, um, who's getting shots, uh, because the CDC does not want those data.[00:26:00]
Dr. Chris Clagett: But I'm going to stop sharing this screen. What these, um,
Dr. Chris Clagett: you know, this is a humorous story. I actually had a physician out in Utah, state of Utah, and he's, he's well known on the internet. Uh, argue with me that, uh, state of Utah data show a reduction in all cause mortality among the vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated. Now, if you want to, if you wanted to make the case that the, the gene injections caused a reduction in cause specific mortality, COVID 19 mortality, that's certainly believable.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Uh, we expect that measles, mumps, rubella is going to reduce mortality to measles, mumps, and rubella.
Dr. Chris Clagett: How would, how would getting, uh, an injection with a, a gene that is [00:27:00] intended to immunize us against COVID 19, SARS CoV 2, how is that supposed to protect me from cancer, uh, pneumonia? uh, heart attack, motor vehicle accident, drowning, all cause mortality. He actually claimed that all cause mortality was lower in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated.
Dr. Chris Clagett: It makes no sense. It's, it's completely medically implausible. So what we can say is that the, uh, data in the state of Utah are somehow corrupted. We don't know how, but they're corrupted. But, uh, the UK and New Zealand data conclusively show us that, uh, that all cause mortality has climbed. When it should have declined and, uh, in New Zealand, because they, that chart extended back past the, uh, pandemic year.
Dr. Chris Clagett: We could see that the pandemic [00:28:00] year was actually a low mortality year. And, and that, that pattern holds. That pattern holds across Europe as well. Uh, not sure that the U. S. data, uh, I can't remember if I've seen them, frankly. I've cut so much, but, uh, so we can say that the, uh, the mortality is, uh, uh, there's a, uh, there's a statistician in the U S that says that, uh, cancer mortality, you asked about cancer early on, uh, in, in this interview, cancer mortality is up among the young by 20 Sigma.
Dr. Chris Clagett: 20 standard deviations. It's, it's beyond astronomical.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Can you explain standard deviation for a second and how the typical chart, what that looks like, so that people can have a comprehension of what that means?
Dr. Chris Clagett: Roger. Most people are familiar with, you know, the, [00:29:00] the, the bell curve. Okay, so when, so we, we divide bell curves, or just statistical distributions into, um, standard deviations.
Dr. Chris Clagett: A standard deviation is a degree of variance. And we usually do it from the mean, the middle. The, in a standard curve, uh, two standard deviations on either side of the mean will encompass ninety five percent of the entire curve, leaving two and a half percent at each tail. Three standard deviations, uh, encompasses ninety nine, and I think maybe percent, uh, more than ninety nine percent.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So there's 1 percent divided between each of the two tails. When we talk about four standard deviations, now we are [00:30:00] out in, uh, one part per 10, 000 in, of the, of the entire distribution. That's four standard deviations. The statistician was claiming 20 standard deviations. This is, and interestingly, he said, and the CDC is hiding it.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Why, how is the CDC hiding this? By lumping increasing cancers among the young who have, and the reason there's room for them to have a 20 standard deviation, uh, increase in cancer is because cancer in the young young adults is so low to begin with. So it's a 20 standard deviation increase still makes relatively few people on an absolute count terms.
Dr. Chris Clagett: getting cancer. Uh, across the human population, cancer, uh, [00:31:00] cancer, uh, varies. It's bimodal. There's a peak in early childhood, and then it declines, and then, and then it's low throughout young adult, and then slowly starts to go up in increasing old age. So, uh, The young are having an enormous increase in cancer, but it's hidden because the mortality among the, the elderly who are disproportionately affected in the pandemic year, their, their cancer mortality right now is low.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Because that those age bands of the population were kind of depleted relatively, they were relatively depleted. So CDC will say, yeah, we have a little bit of an increase in, uh, in cancer. You don't see it because they're lumping a group that is having, uh, [00:32:00] uh, an abnormal reduction in cancer because of mortality from COVID.
Dr. Chris Clagett: In with a, in with a group that had a very low, uh, COVID mortality, but is having now increasing, uh, cancer due to the gene injections.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So what you're saying is the elderly population, we're not seeing the deaths there from cancer because they all died during COVID. And now we're starting to see an equalization of deaths from cancer, but it's coming from a different group.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's coming from the younger population that shouldn't be getting this great rate of cancer.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Exactly. Great. Exactly. They're hiding it. And, uh, so we, you talked about, you know, mechanisms by which the injectable genes cause cancer. I don't have the list in front of me. There's, I think I can tick off seven.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Um, the one mechanism by which they, they outright cause cancer is by reverse [00:33:00] integration into the, the chromosomes, the, the nuclear genome, our, our, our chromosome, uh, our, our, our nuclear genome. is a, is a fantastically complicated thing. We're barely scratching the surface of it. Uh, a, a, a gene, let's say it codes for, uh, uh, the synthesis of a protein, say the protein's a thousand amino acids long.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So the gene is 3, 000 nucleotides long. Uh, that 3, 000 nucleotide What's the term? Intron, I think, could be surrounded by 50, 000 nucleotides of regulatory nucleotides, regulatory sequence, and the, and genes regulate adjacent [00:34:00] genes. It's amazingly complex. And so if you insert a gene that for, that codes for a foreign protein somewhere into the genome, the problem is one, you cannot control the location of the, of the integration.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And this is why gene therapy has always, always, always failed. They can't control the site of integration. Gene therapy is associated with cancer. You're nodding your head. I think you're familiar with this. It's associated with cancer. So if you, if you happen to hit, uh, one of the, one of the actual genes, and it's in this, so this, this foreign gene is, is encoded into it.
Dr. Chris Clagett: It's spliced in. One, you destroy that one functional gene. [00:35:00] And two, you're going to disrupt the, the regulation of nearby genes. Gene expression is so tightly controlled, even among our normal genes, that the overexpression of a gene or an underexpression of a gene are both associated with cancer. It's an amazingly fine tuned apparatus, and so cannot control the gene.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Uh, the point of insertion, almost guaranteed cancer.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Then there are half a dozen mechanisms by which the gene injections will promote cancer. They don't directly cause it, but they could promote it. And this could be a cancer that the gene injection did not directly. Cause let's say you, you had a malignant transformation of some random cell. This happens to us all the time.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Our t lymphocyte line is especially involved in tumor [00:36:00] surveillance and suppression. They, they, they go out, they surveil for and destroy malignantly transformed cells and other abnormal cells, virally infected cells, physiologically stressed cells. Uh, they, they get destroyed. by our, by our, uh, lymphocytic line, CD8, uh, uh, positive T lymphocytes and natural killer cells.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So, uh, what they, what, uh, mechanism one, P53. The spike protein has the nuclear localization sequence. That's a 7 amino acid sequence that basically is like a passkey into the nucleus of the cell. It basically says, open says me. Now a 7 amino acid peptide, that's an amazingly specific, uh, [00:37:00] sequence, uh, with a universe of 20 amino acids to choose from.
Dr. Chris Clagett: The odds of randomly producing Any given seven amino acid peptide is one in 1.28 billion. So this, this nuclear pass key is very specific and the, the spike has it, the, the engineers put it in. So the spike protein is capable of translocating into the nucleus where it binds with this protein called P 53, which is our cells, our nucleuses main DNA repair protein.
Dr. Chris Clagett: DNA repair is an amazingly, amazing process in a three, uh, giga base pair, uh, genome. How does the nucleus know where DNA damage has occurred? [00:38:00] Well, and this, this is like, uh, new data as of, uh, 2017. new developments. The DNA strand is like a, a hyperconductor. So a, a charge donating molecule binds to one end of it, and at the speed of light, uh, this charge propagates along the strand and is removed at the other end.
Dr. Chris Clagett: If, uh, x rays, chemical stress has produced a break, in the, the DNA strands somewhere. Charge is going to be, is begin accumulating. That's how the nucleus repair mechanism knows where to go in a three giga, three billion base pair genome. It goes there and it repairs the protein, the DNA. The spike [00:39:00] binds to p53, this, the nucleus's main DNA repair protein, and it suppresses p53 by 90%.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So spontaneously occurring, um, malignant transformation from, from DNA damage. You know, we're subjected to 300 millirem of natural background radiation every year. You know, you go to the dentist, you get a few more millirem. You get a chest ray, you get a few more millirem. You've got natural radioisotopes inside your body.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Potassium 40, it's ubiquitous. You can't get away from it. We're subjected to radiation. So, we have, we have a designed mechanism to fix that. P53 disables it by 90%. There, uh, the spike disables P53 by 90%. How else? Let's see. The, the, the gene injections disable, [00:40:00] well, they promote, uh, IgG4, uh, transformation.
Dr. Chris Clagett: You're familiar with this, Sam.
Dr. Chris Clagett: I'll, I'll start from the beginning for the audience. We have multiple classes of, uh, immunoglobulin antibody. We call 'em IG for short. IG class, class A, class E, class G, class M, IgG, ig. Class G is one of our main antibodies. It's your memory antibody. It's uh, the, one of their main antibodies that we use to survey.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Uh, against, uh, re infection with, uh, past experienced viruses. So when, when you've gotten, uh, immunizations in the past, the whole point is to build up an IgG response. IgG is conveniently subdivided into four subclasses, conveniently named one through four. IgG 1, 2, and [00:41:00] 3, uh, destroy things. Uh, 1, uh, goes after mainly tumors.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Um, uh, IgG 2 goes after, uh, environmental things like bee venom, other stuff. Stuff you need to clean up, but not urgently. IgG 3 is your main antivirus, uh, antibody. And it also does, I think, a little work on, on, uh, malignant cells. IgG4 is special. IgG4 is your immunotolerance antibody. It's what you, it's what you direct against environmental irritants like pollens, pet danders, peanut protein.
Dr. Chris Clagett: You've, you've probably all seen the news in recent years. Uh, where, uh, kids have peanut allergies. Mom never gave them PBJs as a kid. She should have. Give your kids [00:42:00] PBJs. So, uh, it, IgG4 prevents us from mounting an inflammatory reaction against things that don't need an inflammatory reaction. But IgG4 is, IgG4, we, we, we mount this when we see something frequently and in large quantity.
Dr. Chris Clagett: peanut protein, pollens, bat danders. It's a very bad thing to direct against a replicating virus. Here's the problem. The induce, the gene injections induce so much spike production in the body.
Dr. Chris Clagett: The immune system treats it like an environmental irritant and switches to class four. Uh, the, the genes for the, all four classes are in sequence within the plasma cell that makes antibodies. And when, when the cell, the [00:43:00] plasma cell decides it needs to switch, it basically clips out the, the gene and it can't go back.
Dr. Chris Clagett: It clips out one, two, and three. And then the only thing left it can make is IgG4.
Dr. Chris Clagett: IgG4 is a blocking antibody. So, uh, IgG is basically a Y shaped molecule. The fork binds to the target, the virus, the tumor cell. The stem, out the other way, is the command to the immune effector cell. For IgG1, 2, and 3, it says, destroy the Destroy what's ever on this end of the molecule, the 4 cat. IgG4 says do nothing with it.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So when, when IgG4,
Dr. Chris Clagett: go ahead.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Is this the mechanism of antibody dependent enhancement? [00:44:00]
Dr. Chris Clagett: No, that's a, no, that's a separate thing and it happens inside monocytes mainly. that I know of. Um, no, this is a completely separate thing. Um, but it would be actually, you might be able to consider it a form of antibody dependent enhancement because ADE is simply when the antibodies presence result in a, a higher back, a higher viral burden than would you would have had without the antibodies.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So I guess you, you could consider this a form of, of antibody dependent enhancement. So when the IgG4 binds to the, uh, the virus and it's, uh, it's stem is finding the other way, a immune effector cell that, you know, touches that says, They don't need to do anything with it, but its presence there prevents IgG3 [00:45:00] from binding to that same target.
Dr. Chris Clagett: IgG4 has another trick that it does, very interesting. So let's say you have an IgG3 that is, that is bound to the virus. And, and it's, it's, it's FC region is called friction, fraction crystallizable, which has the command of the immune effector cell would tell it to destroy it. IgG4 actually has the ability to come along and bind stem to stem.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So we've got IgG3 pointing one way on the target and the IgG fork pointing outward toward the immune effector cell. Now the immune effector cell does not recognize the fork of any antibody actually. The, so the, the stem, the FC region of the IgG3 is sterically inhibited, uh, sterically and hindered by the [00:46:00] IgG4.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So by these mechanisms, by this, by this stem to stem binding, IgG4 inhibits antibody dependent phagocytosis, which is where your Pac Man white cell comes along and, and, and gobbles stuff up. It inhibits antibody dependent cytotoxicity in which a, uh, a lymphocyte line cell or a natural killer cell comes along and fires a broadside of, uh, cytotoxic chemicals, um, granzyme, and, uh, foreign, uh, basically makes holes in the target cell, and then the granzyme goes in and, and chews stuff up.
Dr. Chris Clagett: The cell dies. IgG4 inhibits, uh, the function of antibody dependent cytotoxicity as well. It [00:47:00] also inhibits the function of anti, uh, uh, complement dependent cytotoxicity.
Dr. Chris Clagett: When, yes, when two, uh, antibodies bind to a target close together and their stems are closely approximated, Complement can come along and cross link them and then it will begin to do its, do its thing. And it will, it will attract, Complement will attract, uh, lymphocytes and, and Complement has another, uh, toxicity effect directly, but it attracts cytotoxic.
Dr. Chris Clagett: effects to that cell. So, um, it, it, it influences that. So that's, uh, three, four, four extracellular, well, two, two intranuclear effects. Now we have three extracellular effects. That's five. [00:48:00] Um, the gene injections increase, um, PD L1. PD L1 is called programmed death ligand 1. Our B cells that make antibodies and our T cells and our natural killer cells all have a receptor on them called PD 1, programmed death one.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And at low levels of PD 1 binding, PD L1 functions like the, the accelerator or brake on the car. More binding is like the brake on the, on the lymphocyte plasma cell, the, the, the natural killer cell. It tells it more, more binding. Take the day off. Less binding, work overtime. Put in some overtime. There's, [00:49:00] there's a, there's a medication, a new biological medication called Keytruda.
Dr. Chris Clagett: I can't remember the, the full, that's the brand name. Can't remember the full chemical name. It ends in A B for monoclonal antibody. It's the, it's an, it's a monoclonal antibody directed against PD L1. So it strips PD L1 off of all of the, the lymphocyte cells. And basically what it does, uh, it tries to tell the cells, kill them, kill them all.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And in a good percentage of the time, it works very well. Some people get a paradoxical reaction that's not good. which basically takes all the brains off of the cancer. But when it works as intended, it, uh, has worked, works very well. And it's been revolutionized the cancer, the treatment of malignant melanoma, I think is one is the first cancer that was used on with good effect.
Dr. Chris Clagett: The at high levels of binding [00:50:00] PD L1 does not tell the lymphocyte to take the day off. It tells the lymphocyte, go kill yourself. We've seen, we see high levels of PD L1 in very severe cases of SARS CoV 2 infection. And we see similar elevations of PD L1 after the gene injections. So you want to know why people are getting COVID repeatedly.
Dr. Chris Clagett: It's a combination of effects. We've now gone through four extracellular effects, two intranuclear effects, that's six. The last one is that the gene injections impair the activation of two lymphocyte cell lines, uh, both T cells, uh, the CD8 T cells, which are, uh, cytotoxic. [00:51:00] And the CD4 cells, which got some, some notoriety in HIV, CD4 cells activate plasma cells to make antibodies and they activate other T cells to go destroy stuff.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And the gene injections impair the activation of both of these populations of lymphocytes. So that's five extracellular mechanisms. So seven. mechanisms by which they can either directly cause or accelerate the growth of.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What about oncoviruses like SV40 or simian virus 40?
Dr. Chris Clagett: Yes. So what people may or may not know. So and, and here's, and here was part of the, the Pfizer bait and switch [00:52:00] when they were doing the phase two, three combined trial, uh, the phases of which had never been combined before in the history of vaccinology. They produced, they produced the product used in the, uh, the volunteer populations with, uh, PCR.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Very pure process, but a very slow process. And what they, what they realized is that they could not, they could not produce doses at scale in the millions, hundreds of millions of doses. So they went to, oh, and they got the approval. They got FDA approval for the PCR process. That's important. But they never made that product outside of the, the phase two, three trial.
Dr. Chris Clagett: So in order to scale up to, uh, industrial, industrial quantities of doses, they, they switched to process two [00:53:00] where they, they put plasma DNA. A plasmid is a circle of DNA. It's stable and it is replication competent. And they, they infected, or they actually called transformed is the term. They transformed E.
Dr. Chris Clagett: coli bacteria. Now this plasmid Had a bunch of stuff in it. It had the full sequence to make the, the SARS CoV 2 spike, but it had other stuff as well. It had the, it had genes for resistance to two antibiotics. I think, uh, kanamycin and gentamicin. I think it was kanamycin and gentamicin. And, and, and it had a, it had this promoter from simian virus 40.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Simian virus 40 is a historical virus. It was a contaminant of early, uh, polio vaccines. Not all, not all doses, anywhere. [00:54:00] you know, they got made anywhere between 10 and 30 percent of batches were contaminated with this virus because the original material for the cell cultures came from homogenized monkey kidney and the monkeys had this virus.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Simian virus 40, uh, they, they didn't take the whole, genome of this virus, but they took a piece of it called the promoter and a promoter, uh, revs, the revs, the expression of the gene that is downstream from it. They, the antibiotics were necessary because when a, a bacteria divides, sometimes not all the progeny get a copy of the plasmid and they wanted all of their, their E.
Dr. Chris Clagett: coli. We want, they wanted to make sure all of their E. coli had the plasma. [00:55:00] So they, they put the, the genes for resistance to kanamycin and gentamicin in the plasmid. And then they grew the E. coli in the, in the presence of janamycin and kanamycin. So that if they didn't, if they didn't inherit the plasmid from the mother cell, that they, that they split off from, those E.
Dr. Chris Clagett: coli would die. So all their E. coli are producing this plasmid. And then, okay, industrial process, they get a lot of plasmid, they, they, they linearize it, they cut it, they turn it into a string instead of a ring, and then they're supposed to cut out the, the, the spike gene and only give people that. Well.
Dr. Chris Clagett: They weren't nearly as clean about that as they hoped they were. So what actually was in the Pfizer [00:56:00] and Moderna products was a lot of mRNA, much of which was fragmented. So you don't get an entire spike, you get a fragment of a protein, but that's a problem. We can go into that later if we have time. Um, but they also, some of that DNA was still, in plasmid form and it had the, and it would have the simian virus 40 promoter in it.
Dr. Chris Clagett: The simian virus promoter is, is important in, um, human cells because it seems to have, um, a universal nuclear localization property. There's a lab up at the, at the medical center of Rochester, New York, where this guy, uh, I can't remember his last name. It's not a long name. Anyway, this guy is uh, [00:57:00] the director, lab director.
Dr. Chris Clagett: His, his interest is gene therapy. And he has found that he, in order to get a gene into the nucleus of a cell, he needs to use different promoters depending on the target tissue, except for gene, except for simian virus 40 promoter, the simian virus 40 promoter. It's like a universal pass key. into the nucleus of a cell.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And what they write on their website is that it has, it has, it has worked on every tissue they've tested. And so the plasma DNA in the gene injections, it's a contaminant, has the ability to enter the nucleus of any cell in the body. So [00:58:00] the, the, the plant, the promoter itself is not an oncogene.
Dr. Chris Clagett: I, I, it's, it's going to bring, it's bringing in a foreign DNA. No good can come of that. I don't think it's possible right now with current knowledge to know what the effects of that are going to be. There's one other effect though that does concern me. I don't, nobody has proven it as far as I know.
Dr. Chris Clagett: We're being injected people. I didn't get the shot. We as a nation, as a world, we're being injected with this product that is contaminated with plasmid DNA. And if that plasmid DNA makes it into the gut, what is our gut filled with? What bacterium is our gut filled with? E. coli. When, when [00:59:00] bacteria meet, encounter a plasmid, they, they, they absorb it.
Dr. Chris Clagett: They take it in. It's, it's what they do. And they, and they trade plasmids. It's what they do.
Dr. Chris Clagett: If the plasmid gets into E. coli, then We have just transformed the gut bacteria into a, a perpetual spike production facility. It will never end. You would have to eradicate,
Dr. Chris Clagett: hold that thought, and then let's, and let's talk about that because that's an interesting idea, but you, you would, you would, you would generate perpetual spike production. Spike production and the only way to get rid of it would be to eradicate all bacteria in the gut. That's not going to be a good [01:00:00] process.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Now, let's see, you and I are getting this, how, um, pos me, posit me a
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: mechanism. If bacteria like e coli can share capsids, then what would prevent e coli from someone who's been injected? Then transferring into the water source, and then eventually getting into my gut, and then transferring that capsid to my bacteria.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: In a sense, making me into a spike protein factory, even though I never got the shot.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Um, uh, Theoretically, theoretically feasible. Let's see, but, uh, let's see, E. coli. Yeah, eco e coli, they, they survive the, they survive stomach passage. Not necessarily all of them, but some of them can survive. Stomach passage.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Uh, you're right. It's, uh, it's, it's theoretically, it's theoretically possible [01:01:00] that, that we could get this by people who shed, who shed e coli and then give it to. We live in interesting times, um, makes, uh, well, water attractive. Yeah. Um, boy, I'd never really considered that mechanism of transfer before that, um, that's concerning.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I mean, I haven't been cut off like that in a while and we must be hitting a subject. Cause every time we talk about interesting subjects on this podcast, The internet gets cut for some reason. When I talk to lawyers about damage amongst the military, when I talk to a spouse, whose husband was harmed by not only the vaccine, but also his treatment, the military, um, the feed gets cut and we start talking about how, uh, it's important to be on well water and potentially even having a Berkey filter.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And this started to make sense why Berkey filters were driven out of business by the EPA. Um, Because if you can keep E. coli from getting in the water system, perhaps you can [01:02:00] keep these spike proteins from, uh, these spike factories from going into your body and then damaging the, the unvaxxed as well.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Which brings me back to the DMA. So these, these, these people have done great evil.
Dr. Chris Clagett: If we, if we win the next presidential election, and, uh, and it should be presidential. And he understands his appointment powers and how important his choice of service secretaries. is we can get service secretaries who have general court martial convening authority over admirals and generals four star the convening authority must [01:03:00] simply outrank the accused
Dr. Chris Clagett: and we can it won't be it wouldn't be trump sending them to prosecuting them it would be simply the military justice system which has the authority to recall even from retirement any officer for actions Committed while on active duty. If we can get a win with generals and admirals, then there is theoretically no limit to whom we cannot hold accountable for their malfeasance.
Dr. Chris Clagett: I would start next with CDC and FDA.
Dr. Chris Clagett: FDA for fraudulently approving these, these [01:04:00] products, CDC for hiding the, the safety signals, 700, almost 800 of them.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Uh, then the, the, the floodgates for civil litigation and potentially criminal would be open to corporate types, people who under duress accepted the gene injections and were harmed. Thereby, or people who refused the gene injections and were ruined financially thereby, because they were fired for not, for refusing to take this experimental.
Dr. Chris Clagett: biological product. Uh, I personally would like to see state medical boards arraigned because they have [01:05:00] shaped the practice of medicine by threatening the ability of any physician to practice medicine. Should they prescribe the disapproved treatments of ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine
Dr. Chris Clagett: they're, they're guilty of death. They've caused deaths. Hospitals. There have been cases where, where people pleaded with hospitals and hospitalist physicians to treat their, their loved ones with uh, ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine and they were, their pleas fell on deaf ears. They were given rem svir instead and, and perpetuates and, uh, sedatives.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Midazolam, uh, I can't remember what class that is.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Benzodiazepine and morphine. [01:06:00]
Dr. Chris Clagett: And morphine. They, they, people were basically murdered. Um, it, it, it, it's broad. The, the DMA could be the log that splits the mall. The mall that splits the log, sorry. And, and if, and if we can succeed, that will be a glorious thing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And one little caveat that I want to give to what you've said, because what you said is amazing, but even, even if let's say all this wasn't as it was, and there wasn't all this damage and no one was hurt, but yet the military still ordered. People to take this EUA product, that in itself, if it was safe as water even, that in itself, that very order was illegal from the start, and was a felony, and is a crime under UCMJ, and that, that code, U.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: S. code is 10 UFC 1107 alpha, making it illegal to, for any service [01:07:00] member to be required to participate in anything under EUA, so that's masking, um, That's testing, and that's the shots. That was illegal from the start. Then you heap upon all this injury that we've just been discussing for the last hour.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it just, it seems that, and I want this through every legal avenue, but the death penalty may be in store for some.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And I think it would only be, you know, what would we do with someone who, you know, went into a shopping mall and murdered, you know, 50 people, or gunned them down. You know, like that guy from the Mandalay hotel at the music festival. Um, what would we do with somebody like that? The death penalty.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Yes.
Dr. Chris Clagett: I completely agree.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And, and you write the, uh, they're guilty of a felony, even if nobody was harmed, as you say, [01:08:00] even if it was all safe as water,
Dr. Chris Clagett: it
Dr. Chris Clagett: would be a much steeper climb to do, but legally. You're absolutely right. But the, but the harms are real. And I think it's the harms that make it imperative because people need justice.
Dr. Chris Clagett: And right now they've, they've been given them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Dr. Claggett, Chris, thank you so much for being part of this fight. I am honored to stand shoulder to shoulder with you. And with everyone that's come on this and everyone that I've talked to about this issue and and it's it's truly an honor to be standing here with you.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Thank you Sam. A pleasure.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Likewise.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Is there a way people can reach out to you or do you have a website or do you have some way that people can help support you?
Dr. Chris Clagett: I, I do not have a website. I don't need support. I'm, I'm kind of a, I think of [01:09:00] a, as a minor player in this whole DMA effort, but I do have a Twitter account that I, I check pretty regularly.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Uh, it's at Dr. Claggett, 1G2Ts. Or X. Now, I don't think, some of us will never stop calling it Twitter. Uh, but they can, they can reach me there. I understand on the rules on Twitter is that we have to follow each other in order to do dms. But if you, you know, you make a post on one of my posts and I see it, and, uh, you, you wanna be friends.
Dr. Chris Clagett: I'm, I'm generally willing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your, your fight and, and your passion in this subject. God bless you.
Dr. Chris Clagett: Thank you very much, Sam. Bless you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, duty uniform of the day. The full armor of [01:10:00] God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow that gives birth to the calf.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have rib eyes and other meat in it. [01:11:00] It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Check out MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. That's MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours
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124. Dr. Liester and how Ketamine works
Today I talk with Dr. Mitchell Liester. He talks about treating issues like depression, bipolar disorder, OCD, ADHD, boarder line personalty disorder with ketamine. His results are amazing!
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If you would like to purchase better than grass fed and grass finished beef that will never get mRNA injections, never get growth hormones and never get antibiotics check out mycleanbeef.com/afterhours
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124. Dr. Liester
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Dr. Mitchell Liester: [00:00:00] I have a patient with borderline personality disorder, which historically is extremely difficult to treat. There are no medications for it. This poor woman had suffered with depression and daily suicidal ideation for over 25 years. She tried to kill herself twice, once by overdosing on medication, and the second time she almost succeeded.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: She walked in front of a semi truck on the interstate, survived with a traumatic brain injury, multiple fractures of shoulder, arms, ribs, in the hospital for a few weeks. Just five days and got out. We decided to try this, to see if it would work for her and Sam, she's had a remarkable recovery. In fact, we're just about to.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Um, submit a case study to a journal medical journal to report about this because her response was dramatic. Within nine days, she called me and said, Oh, my God, I've never felt like this before. I hope this last when she came back later. Um, she was her depression was improving markedly. Her relationships were improving.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And by the time she'd gone out for a few months, her depression was in remission. She had no more suicidal thoughts. She was working two jobs. Her daughter, who previously wouldn't even talk to her for a couple of years because her mother was too [00:01:00] emotional and stable, now was calling her for advice. And she's made a really a hundred percent turnaround.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Her depression's in remission. Her, she no longer meets criteria for borderline personality disorder either.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking. This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice. has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you. And if we compare, What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major steak companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's a great price [00:02:00] value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out MyCleanbeef.com/afterhours. That's mycleanbeef.com/afterhours, mycleanbeef.com/afterhours.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed I've been wearing this t shirt for a few episodes now, I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I first [00:03:00] want to thank you all for joining me and give a shout out to all of my Patreon supporters. We've got 2Tough giving 30 a month. We have The Anonymous Family Donor giving 20. 20. We have The Plandemic Reprimando level at 17. 76 with Tai. Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then we have the Courageous Contagious with 1 a month with Jay, Spessnasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, Caleb. Thank you so much for supporting, uh, me with my endeavors with this show. Uh, please be sure and check out mycleanbeef. com slash after hours. That's mycleanbeef. com slash after hours. Um, So [00:04:00] today our guest, very special man, met Dr. Mitch Leister at the FLCCC conference. Now, we just happened to sit at the same table and it was a perfect fit, I couldn't have sat at a better table. Uh, we had some interesting conversations, we had common interests, uh, but Dr. Mitch, great to see you again. How have things been with you?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Doing very well, Sam.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Thanks. It's great to see you, too. Thanks for inviting me to your program.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, you do the, you're a psychiatrist, correct?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Yes, I am. Yeah, I'm a clinical psychiatrist, uh, an associate. I'm an assistant clinical professor in psychiatry at the University of Colorado School of Medicine as well.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And you have a treatment plan or a treatment regimen that you've discovered over the last few years that helps with certain specific disease processes.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Can you get into that a bit and kind of explain what that is and some of the results that you've seen with that?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Sure Sam, I'm happy to and I also have a slide deck [00:05:00] PowerPoint if that will help explain things too. Yeah. So briefly the treatment we're using is a medicine called Uh huh. Do you want to get the slide deck set up?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Would it be good to share that now? Yeah. Yeah. I can, uh, let me see if I can get it set up for you. Okay, are you able to see that? What I've got here is a PowerPoint presentation to explain this topic of low dose sublingual ketamine. On the first slide, it's just a title slide. The second slide, Sam, is just a disclaimer one that we have to put in there because this is a, uh, Off label use for ketamine just explains that, uh, not recommending people go out and try this on their own.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: They should consult with their doctor. But the real point behind this topic is that a lot of people in this country are suffering with depression. On the third slide, you see that there are over 17 million adults and almost 2 million kids are being diagnosed with depression. So it's a real problem and it's growing every day, probably for a lot of different reasons, including COVID, post COVID, et cetera.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And the fourth slide explains that a lot of the traditional medicines we've used for treating depression and [00:06:00] other psychiatric diseases just often don't work. Leaves people feeling depressed, uh, despite the treatment. In fact, on the fifth slide, you see that, uh, as many as a third, close to a third of people who have depression are diagnosed with what's called treatment resistant depression, which means they failed at least two trials of conventional antidepressants.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: They just haven't been effective, which leaves these people suffering. And even the people that do respond sometimes don't have a very good response. Thanks. And not only that, but on the sixth slide it talks about how these medicines also cause, the conventional medicines cause a lot of side effects. On the next slide, the 7th, you see that one major class of antidepressants called SSRIs have a lot of side effects.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: They cause sexual dysfunction, they can cause drowsiness, weight gain, etc. Which means a lot of people just don't even want to take these medicines, and sometimes the side effects are worse than the benefits for some people. So we've discovered an alternative on the 8th slide, which is a medicine called ketamine.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And ketamine is a very interesting medicine that we'll talk about briefly, but I want Just want to mention that it's an alternative. Some of these conventional antidepressants. Um, [00:07:00] and in fact, on the next slide, you can see what we're prescribing for people. These little squares of orally dissolving ketamine called trochees, T R O C H E, and these ketamine trochees are very low dose, and they have a lot fewer side effects.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: then we see with some of the conventional antidepressants, so not only are they safe, they're effective, and they're a lot cheaper as well. Next slide, slide 10, you can see that, uh, ketamine does not have some of these side effects the SSRIs have. It doesn't cause sexual dysfunction, it doesn't cause weight gain, it doesn't cause dry mouth, fatigue, or some of the shaking you can get with some of the conventional antidepressants.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It doesn't mean ketamine is safe for everybody, and you should just take it as much as you want. There is a problem with recreational use. On the next slide, the 11th slide, you see a picture of Matthew Perry, who was in the news, unfortunately, recently, after he died. Um, the press made it sound like it was because he took ketamine, but, uh, they actually had his autopsy posted online, and I took a look at it.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Turns out he did have a very high level of ketamine in his system, and it was reported that he was using intravenous ketamine as a treatment for depression, [00:08:00] but the level he had in his bloodstream was much higher than what he would have received from those intravenous treatments. So, in fact, he was probably using recreationally on top of it.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And that wasn't what killed him, though. What happened is he apparently drowned in his, I can't remember if it was a pool or a hot tub, so he probably fell asleep and drowned, but the press made it out to sound like he was, um, the ketamine that killed him, which wasn't the case. Next slide, slide 12, it talks about the advantages of The sublingual form, under the tongue form, versus other ways that ketamine is being used.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It is being used intravenously, it's even being used intranasally to treat depression, but the under the tongue has much fewer side effects, it's not as expensive, and the benefits last, whereas with the IV or the sub, uh, intranasal, once you stop the treatment, the symptoms come back. So, in the 13th slide, you see, uh, the first, uh, description of how ketamine came into existence, and it was an interesting story.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Ketamine was first synthesized in the 1960s, uh, by some scientists at Park Davis, uh, pharmaceutical company. And they were looking for a general anesthetic to put people to sleep for surgery, because the [00:09:00] one they were using had some real problems. It was called Fincyclidine, and when they anesthetized people for surgery, then they woke up, they would be very combative, agitated.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And the other name for Fincyclidine is called PCP, or on the street it's called angel dust. And at one point that was being used as a general anesthetic, but it didn't work well. So these scientists came up with an alternative, it's a It's a slightly modified form and analog and it's called ketamine. So that was when it was first discovered.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It was first approved by the FDA in 1970 as a general anesthetic and has been used since then as an anesthetic is still used today. Um, but a long, a little bit later in 2000, on the next slide, slide 14, you see that some researchers at Yale back in 2000 discovered that if they give lower doses of ketamine, a sub anesthetic dose.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It actually provided rapid antidepressant effects. Sometimes people within hours or within days would report improvement in their depression. So as a result of that, ketamine clinics have popped up all over the country now where people can go in and get an intravenous infusion of ketamine and their depression rapidly improves.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: But there are some problems with that. First of [00:10:00] all, it's very expensive. Um, each infusion can run anywhere from 250 to 1, 000. Not so much for the medicine, but for the time of the physician or nurse monitoring the treatment. Um, people often have sort of a psychedelic like effect that they don't like. Um, and then again, once the infusion stopped, the symptoms can come back.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Um, so on the next slide, slide 15, you see that, uh, uh, over time they discovered that, um, sublingual ketamine could also be used, um, and it had some real advantages. This is a study from, uh, 2013 showing that, uh, just very low doses, as low as 10 milligrams a day under the tongue, every two to seven days even.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Improved depression over three fourths of the patients who used it in both unipolar and bipolar depressions was a real breakthrough. But that study just kind of was ignored for a long time. Everybody just, uh, just didn't even look at it. There's not a lot of money to be made in sublingual ketamine, so I think, unfortunately, there wasn't much of a profit motive.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And that kind of held back the research. Uh, next slide, slide 16, shows that, uh, just a few years ago, some researchers [00:11:00] down in Brazil discovered that ketamine also occurs in nature. They were looking for treatments for parasites and came upon this fungus. Next slide, please. That would kill parasites. They took the fungus back to the lab to see what it was making.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It turns out it was making ketamine. So you can actually find ketamine in nature if you know where to look. So one of the big questions, the next slide, 17, is how does this work? And how does ketamine treat depression? It's an anesthetic that's used for other things. Sometimes doctors prescribe it for pain management as well.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: But how does it work for depression? Well, slide 18 shows it actually promotes neural regeneration or it stimulates the nervous system to grow and repair. And it does this in slide 19 by increasing a protein that we have in our body and in our brain called BDNF. It stands for Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: So what is this magic protein that stimulates our brain to grow? Slide 20 shows, uh, it's again B, D, and F, and the next slide, 21, shows a picture from some research at, uh, back at Yale when they took a picture in electron microscope of neurons [00:12:00] before and after ketamine. And what you can see in this picture is that, uh, the top, uh, Red line is a, a nerve or a nerve cell neuron from a rat that shows a couple little bumps on it.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: These are called bulbs or spikes. And these bulb or spikes grow out and connect with bulb or spikes on other neurons and create connections called synapses. And the bottom picture shows that after ketamine treatment, these, uh, bulbs or spikes grew, uh, or much, quite a few more of them. And that was because of the BDNF.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It actually stimulates the nerve cells to produce new, uh, synapses. There's one other interesting thing about ketamine, on the next slide, 22. In late, uh, 2022, some researchers at MIT wrote a paper about something called silent synapses. And these are connections in the brain that are dormant, and they're just asleep.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: They're not functioning. They're missing a protein that they need to turn them on. And they say as many as a third of the connections or synapse in our brain may be these dormant or silent synapses. And it turns out the protein that's needed to turn them on is something that ketamine triggers the [00:13:00] production of.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: So ketamine may be actually waking up our brain in ways that hadn't been predicted before. And just a few more slides. Slide 23 shows that the Response to ketamine varies with the dose. At low doses, you don't see much response, but as you increase the dose, the body starts producing more of this BDNF, which I think of as miracle growth for the brain.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Stimulates the growth of the nerve cells, new nerve cells are produced, new connections are produced. But if you keep increasing the dose, you actually do more harm than good. If you go too high, The brain stops producing BDNF, you actually get a damage to the nerve cells, something called excitotoxicity.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And so excessive use of ketamine is not a wise choice. You want to keep the dose down. The next slide, 24, just explains that, um, with ketamine, you start seeing improvement in depression. Um, and with the sublingual ketamine, it's slow, uh, slower than the IV, but it's more long lasting. We're seeing really some dramatic changes in people who have not responded to antidepressants for decades.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And after sometimes a month or two of this, under the Tunketamine, they're going into remission, they're [00:14:00] feeling markedly improved, and those benefits last, and they continue to grow, so that even though in the first month or two people may improve in terms of their depression, over time other things improve.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Their anxiety gets better, uh, they sleep better, their PTSD improves, their ADHD improves, um, their obsessive compulsive disorder improves, and it just keeps going. After years or so, we're even seeing some pro cognitive effects. People's memory is improving, their ability to learn improves, um, people are reporting their intuition improves.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It's just seeing some really remarkable results. And on the next slide, last slide actually, um, this is a poster, a copy of a poster we presented the World Psychiatric Congress last year in Vienna, Austria. showing our results with the first 49 patients we treated with ketamine. It's a little bit complex, but it just shows that 96 percent of the people who we treated with this sublingual ketamine improved to varying degrees.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: About a third got about 50 percent better, about a third got 50 75 percent better, and then about 25 percent went into total remission, no more depression. And only 4 [00:15:00] percent of the people showed no response. And this slide also includes the protocol we used and some possible ways that it works. So, what we're hoping is that by putting this information out there, some other doctors will learn about it and start using it as well.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: We do have doctors now in Phoenix that we know, some colleagues in Tucson as well as Denver. They're trying this and having also remarkable results as they're starting to spread the word as well. So, that's the message I wanted to pass on to folks that are interested is there's a new treatment for not just psychiatry, uh, And, so, based disorders like depression, anxiety.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: We're also seeing some improvement in neurologic disorders. People are spontaneously reporting improvement in peripheral neuropathy. We're also trying in a patient with ALS. Also have seen my colleague here in Carl Springs, Dr. Rachel Wilkinson has had some success reversing dementia in some patients and also seeing some evidence of brain regrowth after sustained treatment with this ketamine.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is incredible. This is, this seems like it's a miracle that you have found that you've helped discover. [00:16:00]
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Well, you know, when it first came out, I was very skeptical, to be honest with you, it sounded a little too good to be true, but when my colleague, Dr. Wilkinson said, you know, Mitch, you know, you won't believe the results with this, I thought, yeah, I've heard that before, but I know her, I've known her for a while and trust her, so I decided to try it.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And it was kind of funny because in the beginning she said, you're going to see results, just tell people to be patient. And so people would come back after a month or two in the medicine and they were 50 percent better. And I would send her a text in the middle of the day, say, Rachel, I can't believe the results.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: She, this is amazing. I've never seen anything like this. And she'd text me back and say, Mitch, calm down. It's going to get better. And sure enough, patients would come back a month or two later, they'd be 75 percent improved. And I texted her again and said, Rachel, I don't believe the results. This is amazing.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: She texted me back in and said, Mitch, calm down. It's going to get better. I said, how can they get better than this? She said, give it a few more months. People will be in remission. And she was right. And I had to text her back after that and say, I apologize for doubting you. I didn't. She said, I didn't believe in the beginning either.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: She said, I didn't think this was going to be as good as [00:17:00] it is. But she had been prescribing it at that point for two and a half years, had over 200 patients on it. And again, in the beginning, I thought, why would any doctor have 200 patients on this new treatment? Well, Sam, I'm just about there now. I think I've got about 180 patients on it because they're doing so well.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Uh, I don't want to deny people the opportunity to get better.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow, this is incredible. So go through a list of some of the things that you've personally seen it work better and and your colleague has seen it improve. So you mentioned OCD, PTSD, depression, ADHD.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Yes, uh, it's, it's really, I have a patient with borderline personality disorder, which historically is extremely difficult to treat.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: There are no medications for it. This poor woman had suffered with depression and daily suicidal ideation for over 25 years, just miserable and no medicines were helping. She tried to kill herself twice, once by overdosing on medication, and the second time she almost succeeded. She walked in front of a semi truck on the interstate.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And, uh, survived with a traumatic [00:18:00] brain injury, multiple fractures of shoulder, arms, ribs. She was in bad shape. They took her to the ICU. She's in the hospital for just five days and got out. We decided to try this to see if it would work for her. And Sam, she's had a remarkable recovery. In fact, we're just about to Um, submit a case study to a journal medical journal to report about this because her response was dramatic within nine days.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: She called me and said, Oh, my God, I've never felt like this before. I hope this last when she came back later. Um, she was her depression was improving markedly. Her relationships were improving. And by the time she'd gone out for a few months, her depression was in remission. She had no more suicidal thoughts.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: She was working two jobs. Her daughter, who previously wouldn't even talk to her for a couple of years because her mother was too emotionally unstable, now was calling her for advice. And she's made a really 100 percent turnaround. Her depression's in remission. She no longer meets criteria for borderline personality disorder either.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow! There's nothing for borderline personality disorder. Those people live this terrible self destructive life for the rest of their life. [00:19:00] And, you know, explosion of relationships over and over and over and, and it's changed. She's no longer meets criteria. That's incredible.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Sam, it's, it's one of the most amazing things I've been practicing for almost 40 years now.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: I've never seen anything like it. And the joy now in my practice is seeing people coming in who are doing so much better. For so many different causes. Yes. Yes, about other other conditions. So in psychiatry is also working for people to struggle with bipolar disorder, which can be difficult to treat partly because antidepressants can make the condition worse by triggering what are called manic episodes.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: The ketamine doesn't do that. So it's providing mood stabilization as well as treating their depression. So they're improving. Even they're improving so much, Sam, that a lot of the people we're treating now are getting off their conventional medications. They don't need antidepressants after a while.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: They don't need ADHD medicines. They don't need medicines for PTSD or OCD or ADHD. Uh, and so that's remarkable to see after maybe a year or two. And then Dr. Wilkinson, who's been now prescribing for over four years, [00:20:00] tells me that some patients, after about three years, Don't even need ketamine anymore. So it's as if it's healed their brains and they have remained stable for up to six months so far, even without ketamine, no medication whatsoever.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: So we're really excited about the potential to help people with this medicine.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, kind of walk me through like a treatment regimen, how it works, how it looks from your side and then what the patient typically sees during that, that timeframe.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Absolutely. So, we, uh, Dr. Wilkinson developed a protocol, I call it the Wilkinson protocol because she's the one that was smart enough to come up with it and we're using it as a starting point.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: What we do is we have people start with just 25 milligrams of ketamine, they put it under their tongue at bedtime. Uh, and the reason for that is some people feel a little bit either, uh, mildly tipsy, some people describe it as like they've had a glass of wine. Or a little bit mildly dizzy if they get up and walk around.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: So if they lay down at bedtime, they just fall asleep. And that if they do experience that mild tipsy feeling, uh, it's very short lived. Usually between five minutes and an hour. Some people find it pleasant. They kind of like it. They just relax and fall asleep. [00:21:00] Some people don't even feel it. And so they take 25 milligrams under their tongue every third night for four doses.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: After that, they take 25 milligrams under their tongue every other night for four doses, and then they increase to 25 milligrams every night. Now, we give it some time, usually within, uh, one to four weeks of that dose, people start noticing improvement. It's gradual. Um, if they don't respond, then we can increase the dose.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And in some occasion, uh, some instances, that 25 milligrams is a little too strong for people, so we've actually had people who've cut back their dose. So the range we're finding that's effective can be anywhere from, um, Uh, the lowest I have anybody on is 6 mg and the lady is taking it every third day, only twice a week and she's doing marvelously.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And there are some people that take doses as high as 150 mg to 175 mg and they do well at that dose. So each individual responds differently, so we just start low, go slow until we find a dose that works optimally for people and then we stay at that dose because the benefits keep accruing. For a year, there are even additional benefits the second year, and Dr.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Wilkinson tells me [00:22:00] even more benefits the third year. So we don't have to keep increasing the dose, we just keep people at a steady state dose.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So when you say the third year, the third year of the same treatment dosage?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Correct, yes. In fact, some people, she tells me, I've only been prescribing this now for a little over a year, maybe a year and a quarter.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: She's been doing it for four years. And says that some people after about that third year start finding they just don't need the ketamines as much, starts cutting back on the dose. And like I said, some people wean off of it, just don't need any medicine any longer. And it kind of makes sense, Sam, that, you know, what we're seeing is a lot of these conditions we've been treating for years, we thought were due to chemical imbalances in the brain.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It's starting to look like it's more likely due to inflammation in the brain, which could be caused by a variety of things, systemic inflammation, um, autoimmune disorder, stress, a lot of things can cause inflammation in the brain, what's called neuroinflammation, and the ketamine repairs that, so instead of treating symptoms, we're really getting to the root cause of their conditions, we believe, and it's making a huge difference for people.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's amazing. I love getting to the root cause of things. And one thing that, uh, I'm a huge advocate and love [00:23:00] talking about is diet and how that gets to the root cause of even brain inflammation.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Well, and that's interesting you mention that, Sam, because I just recently was at a conference where they talked about dietary interventions for not only psychiatric disorders, but medical disorders.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And they were reporting through some dietary changes, some very similar results to what we're seeing. Even the ability to get patients with severe psychiatric disorders off their medications. Um, Dr. Chris Palmer from Harvard was talking about a patient with chronic schizophrenia for 40 years, who after dietary changes was able to get off her medication and remain symptom free for the next 15 years of her life.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And, uh, I was curious about that. I mean, patient, uh, patient after patient was being described to with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and depression. Was able to improve, um, with dietary changes very similar to what we're seeing with ketamine. So I reached out to Dr. Wilkinson, my colleague about this, and I said, how is this possible that we're getting similar results?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: We found out that certain types of dietary changes, particularly low carb [00:24:00] diets, can also release BDNF in the brain, the same sort of miracle grow product that stimulates the brain cells to grow. So it looks like we probably found two different pathways that converge at healing and repairing the brain, and not just the brain, but the remainder of the body as well.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now, I want to mention that if anybody wants to learn more about Dr. Chris Palmer, he was recently on a podcast with Dr. Jordan Peterson, and he talks about that case who had, um, that patient who had, was it, um, um, schizotypal or, or some, A personality disorder and completely reverse their disease just by changing their, their eating habits, doing extremely low carb.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I think they were doing carnivore.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: I believe it. And I think Sam, the problem is, as you know, most of us physicians got little or no training about nutrition in medical school. And so I got zero, but not one minute. And so really wasn't aware of the potential benefits. I'm fortunate that my oldest daughter is a registered dietitian.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It's been trying to educate me for a long time about these benefits. And. I was a little skeptical in the beginning, but now I'm seeing it. She's reversing all kinds of medical [00:25:00] conditions. Patients with diabetes, um, are improving. Some of my patients now that she works with are having significant improvement in their mental health.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: So I think, yes, I think dietary interventions are hugely important and we're excited about, we're starting to combine dietary interventions with ketamine to try to, Uh, boost the response people are getting. So, uh, we're starting to publish some papers, hopefully very soon about this, uh, and I hope we'll have more to publish in the future, and hopefully we can stimulate other people to do some research as well.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: One thing you mentioned in your, in your, uh, presentation, you said excessive use. When you have excessive use, the return becomes less and actually can be seemingly harmful. Um, by excessive use, do you mean dosage at one time or dosage, same dosage over time? So like same dosage every day for multiple days in a row.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Yeah, great question. So there are two things that could happen with higher doses of ketamine. The first thing is you actually shut off production of BDNF instead of increasing it. Um, if you go to too high of a dose, single dose, [00:26:00] you don't get any BDNF release. That's one problem. The other is something called excitotoxicity, which is a process that occurs.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: When you have too much of a, um, amino acid, that's also a neurotransmitter called glutamate in the system. And in the brain, if you have too much glutamate, it damages neurons. It kills them. And, uh, ketamine does work on glutamate. So stimulating a little bit of it can be helpful, but too much is not good.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It's like what we learned in medical school. The only difference between a medicine that poisons the dose. And that's certainly true with ketamine. So you can actually reduce healing of the brain, If you go to higher, but if you go excessively high, you can actually damage the brain. And, uh, that's where people need to be careful to using it recreationally, because if they go too high, they're going to actually do some damage.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And when you say recreationally in those high doses, are those the kind of doses that drug users and abusers, when they call keyhole, when they just kind of disappear into nothingness, is that the kind of high dosage that you're talking about?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Probably. Yeah. At higher doses than we're using, ketamine has very [00:27:00] different effects.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Uh, again, the low doses, it hardly has any. perceptible effects on consciousness is very mild if any. As you go up on the dose like with the IV doses, which are still safe, and that's about usually a half a milligram per kilogram is the typical dose that they infuse over about 40 minutes intravenously, people have psychedelic like experiences, but they're not doing damage to their brain.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: But unfortunately, recreationally, some people go much higher using ketamine. And when they do that, yes, they go into the K hole, the keyhole, where they have not only profound changes in consciousness, but again, sometimes they have Neurotoxic changes their brains as well, and that's not a good thing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, kind of walk me through the patient experience and, and like how they take the medication. Because you, you mentioned those little, they look like little pieces of paper. Or is it a liquid, or how does that work from their perspective? And then
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Sure. Yeah, sure, Sam. It's, it's a gelatinous like substance.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: That the pharmacy makes it has to be made at a [00:28:00] compounding pharmacy, the average pharmacy or local pharmacy won't have this. It doesn't come from pharmaceutical companies this way. It has to be made and we have a wonderful pharmacist here in Colorado Springs that knows how to make it. And he's been doing it for several years now.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It's spreading. They're also pharmacists. We work with pharmacies in other. Um, cities around Colorado, and I know there's a friend of mine is a compounding pharmacist in Mesa, Arizona, and also makes sublingual ketamine, these ketamine trochees. So, what people do when they get them, each trochee is typically, that we make, is 100 milligrams.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: So, the patient cuts it in fourths, and just puts a quarter of that little square under their tongue. And, uh, what people describe oftentimes initially is the taste is unpleasant, it's got a bit of a bitter taste. So the pharmacies will often put a flavoring in it. Sometimes they use wintergreen, I've had patients have bubblegum flavored or uh, cherry marshmallow, candy, cotton candy, all, watermelon, all kinds of flavors try to cut that bitter taste.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: But it's not bad enough that anybody stopped the medicine because of the bitterness. Some people say it's not bad at all and they use it unflavored. And once it's under their tongue, um, people [00:29:00] start feeling relaxed and calm typically. If they feel anything, some people feel nothing and that calm, relaxed feeling helps some people just fall asleep.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Occasionally, maybe less than 10 percent of the time, some people have an opposite reaction where they feel energized like they've had a cup of coffee. If that happens, we have two options. We can either cut down the dose to relieve that or some people take it earlier in the day instead of at bedtime. If they do that, I just ask them not to drive for an hour.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: The reason being that if they do feel that sort of tipsy feeling, we don't don't want them on the road and that pass is usually Um, and less than an hour. And, uh, that tipsy feeling, like I said, for some people is very pleasant. Um, if people get up and go to the bathroom during the night, they can, they, they feel a little lightheaded or dizzy, but nobody's hurt themselves or fallen from that.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Um, and then that wears off within an hour and the next morning people feel nothing. It has a very short half life, um, which means it's out of our system after taking it sublingually probably within about 10 hours or so. So if you take it at night by the time you wake up the morning the medicine's out of your system and you just go on about your normal day.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And the biggest challenge for people is [00:30:00] to be patient because most of the time for the first four to six weeks people feel nothing and then very gradually once the medicine starts working they start noticing just gradual improvement. They say that I'm feeling a little bit Uh, less depressed or a little less anxious or I'm sleeping a little better.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Um, and then that gets progressively worse. There are some ups and downs over time, but the gradual improvement is pretty noticeable. I sometimes tell people it's like watching your own hair grow from day to day. You don't see any change, but week to week or month to month, you know when the hair is getting longer.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And that's what people describe with the medicine. There are some fast responders. I had one lady that went from severe depression. Um, to no depression within one month, but that's unusual. Usually that takes two or three, maybe even four months. Um, but people do notice gradual improvement. And then it's interesting because people will start adding additional comments about additional observations they've made.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: For example, I've heard the word resilient more in the last year than I've heard in my whole career. People will come in and say, I'm just more resilient. I can just handle things better. The things that used to [00:31:00] bother me just don't bother me as much anymore. And people are describing some really remarkable changes, um, past traumas, uh, things that have happened to them in their childhood or when they were younger, just that they used to bother them still that doesn't bother them anymore.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: They said, you know, I've, I've dealt with it. I've thought about it. It just doesn't have the same impact on me anymore. People are even healing relationships that have been broken for decades. Um, and this resiliency is really amazing. And it's allows people sometimes. Yeah. To, um, also think creatively and problem solve.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Um, and it doesn't mean people are more passive people. Sometimes they're getting out of jobs that weren't working for them because they say, I just don't have to put up with that or tolerate it anymore. I was before I felt like I just had to hang in there. Now I don't feel that way anymore. So people are finding it easier to make constructive changes in their life as well.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: That's kind of fun to hear. And then sometimes we're even hearing spontaneous reports of improvement neurologic conditions. One of the most common is peripheral neuropathy. I must have had seven or eight patients just voluntarily say, That's great. Dr. Leaster, I don't know, I not only feel less [00:32:00] depressed, but my peripheral neuropathy pain is either markedly reduced or it's gone.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And not everybody experiences that, but a high percentage of people do. I'm also hearing people report their fibromyalgia is better now. Um, and people are even saying, you know, I think it's because I'm emotionally more stable. I don't have the, I don't feel the stress I felt before. My fibromyalgia pain is just improving.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It's really fun to hear all the different things that people come in describing, all the different kinds of improvement. I had one gentleman who had, um, post COVID symptoms. He lost his smell and taste and had tinnitus ringing in his ears for seven months. We started him on ketamine for, uh, depression.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And his tinnitus went away quickly and his taste and smell are now are starting to return finally, um, for the first time. So, we're just getting a lot of, uh, reports of additional kinds of benefits. I'll tell you one other. My sister even, uh, was started on it. She has a neurologic condition, a pain disorder called CRPS, complex regional pain syndrome.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And she also had damage to the ulnar nerve in her left arm from a car accident 30 years [00:33:00] ago. So, her doctor put her on the ketamine because it's reported to help with CRPS. But what she didn't expect was that the Damaged her left ulnar nerve, um, which caused her left pinky finger and ring finger to be numb for 30 years, suddenly got better too.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And she can now feel those fingers for the first time in 30 years after taking ketamine. We didn't expect that. And I keep checking with her. Can you still feel those fingers? And she can, it's been months now and it's still the same.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How long on treatment before she could feel those, that, that
Dr. Mitchell Liester: I don't remember exactly how many months, but it was a, it was a few months within maybe two or three months.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: She started noticing improvement and also her CRPS, she, her feet had been numb and they're no longer numb after treatment with the ketamine.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. I mean, just everything that you're mentioning, I can, I can picture a patient in my head that I think might benefit from this because we all, So, you know, if, if you're in this profession, we all have patients that are, have these, these incurable problems.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it's just so heartbreaking that we can't offer anything.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Exactly. So, I mean, that's what's made this so [00:34:00] much fun for me is that people that used to be considered treatment resistant, there was no hope for them. Now there's not only hope, but significant improvement. Um, And I think that's why it's spreading so fast.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And when I've told some of my colleagues about it at first, they were very skeptical, but I, as I was in the beginning, but it's so much fun. I just got a call from a psychiatrist friend in Denver last week. She's saying, Mitch, I have to talk to you. I've been using your sublingual ketamine protocol. It's working great.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Can we talk? I said, yes. So we got on the phone and she was describing how much improvement she's seeing. Um, I also have a friend who's a, uh, a doctor practicing position in Mesa, Arizona. He says the same thing. I have one other colleague here locally in Colorado Springs. He's a neuro oncologist, a very, very bright neuro oncologist.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: When I first told him about this, he was very skeptical and said, show me the studies. So I did. I sent him several studies showing this, how this worked. He read them. He said, you know, this looks like it might work. I think I'll try it. And when I saw him the next time, a month or two later, he said, Mitch, he said, it's working great.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: He said, a lot of my patients responding, he said, the biggest problem I'm having those when I try to talk to my colleagues, the other [00:35:00] neurologists, they don't know anything about it. They don't understand it. And they won't take the time to read the papers. He said, they're just not considering the possibility.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: So he said, I'm having a hard time convincing my. Colleagues to try this piece that I'm having great success with it. So I think that's the challenge, Sam, is that most physicians aren't yet aware of this, they don't understand it. And so they're a little hesitant to try it, but I'm hoping that through your podcast, thank you.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: And through other recent, um, podcasts we're doing and papers we're writing that hopefully physicians will become more familiar with this treatment and begin using it themselves because any physician. Can prescribe ketamine as long as they have a DEA license. It's what's called a schedule 3 medicine. So it's lower on the scheduling than even something like Adderall or many narcotics.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: So it's easy to prescribe. You just need to find a compounding, compounding pharmacist that will make it. And the cost is also important. I should mention that I talked about earlier how these Intravenous infusions can run thousands of dollars for people over time, which is just cost prohibitive for a lot of people.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: The ketamine trophies, um, they, [00:36:00] when they make the 30 little squares, it's approximately $60, and if people stay on just the low dose, 25 milligrams, that will last 'em four months. So we're talking maybe $15 a month. And even if they increase their dose, it's typically not more than maybe $30 a month. So it's very affordable for people.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's incredibly affordable compared to, you know, 600 for an IV session that you do maybe three or four of those a week for six weeks.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Exactly. So it's less expensive, fewer side effects and lasting benefits over time, which is really exciting. So I, I think in the going forward in the future, I think this will probably become the future or the treatment of choice for many disorders once people learn about it. And if, you know, further studies confirm our results, but uh, It's, it's really remarkable and it's, it's just such a joy to see people improving.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Have you seen any, anybody with brain injuries, like let's say stroke or traumatic brain injury? I think you mentioned one patient, your, uh, borderline personality did have some traumatic brain injury, but to help improve with those specific symptoms.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It's a great question. [00:37:00] Yes, I'm working with another young man who unfortunately had a couple of severe traumatic brain injuries. He was, uh, in high school. He was camping in the mountains near where we live here. It's pretty common for the kids to go up camping in the mountains. And he decided in the middle of the night that he didn't want to stay so he was driving down the mountain by himself and went off the side of the road and this car tumbled a couple hundred feet and he was stuck in a gully down below and he couldn't get out of the car.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Um, yelled for help. There was nobody out. It was the middle of the night. He was there for hours until the next day when somebody happened to be driving along. I heard him screaming. They flight for life into the local hospital, had a significant traumatic brain injury, um, recovered from it, but later had a second car accident with another traumatic brain injury that left him disabled, um, for years living at home with his mother and father, struggling.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: So just to get through the day, he's very depressed, very irritable, cognitive impairment. So we decided to try it for him and he's doing wonderfully. He's much more happy. He's not depressed. He's not so angry. Um, he's becoming more social. So we're seeing some [00:38:00] real progress. And I'll tell you briefly about a patient, Dr.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Wilkinson's, who, uh, was experiencing some atrophy of her occipital lobes in the back of her brain. And this was documented by MRI. She was seeing a local neurologist and Dr. Wilkinson put her on. Sublingual Ketamine, and after nine months, her functioning started to be improving. So they, at that point, did another MRI and saw that her occipital lobes were regrowing.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: There was actually regrowth. In the back of her brain, which is, was not known to be possible. That can't happen, allegedly. That's what I was taught, Sam. But we've got MRI evidence to document that it did. So that's pretty exciting. When we start seeing it's kind of a paradigm buster. Yeah, it can do things.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: We just didn't know it was possible doing. And the nice thing about this too, is, you know, we're not the only ones looking at this. There are some folks at UC Davis in California. Who have come to understand that there are medicines that can stimulate the brain to grow and repair. They've put a new name or label on these medicines.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: They call them psychoplastogens, which is a big, [00:39:00] uh, big name. But they say these are medicines that stimulate the brain to grow and both, and improve both functionally and structurally. And they're looking for additional medicines that will do the same thing. What's odd about this is that many of the medicines they found that do this already are what are called psychedelic medicines.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Uh, medicines like psilocybin does the same thing, uh, in their lab. It stimulates the release of BDNF, but these medicines aren't yet available in most places. They may become available. There are clinical trials demonstrating that, uh, psilocybin can have very beneficial effects similar to the ketamine, but, um, they're not yet legally available.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: In the meantime, ketamine is legal, legally available, so it's much easier to use.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. Some of those things you mentioned were schedule one, which means no medical use, but ketamine is schedule three, which means it's even easier to, to get to your patient. That's incredible.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It's very easy. You know, it just takes the pharmacy a day or two to make it and they can start on it and then you get to wait to see them back and see how they're doing now.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: I will mention again, it doesn't work for [00:40:00] everybody. You know, we do have a small percentage of people who don't seem to benefit. We don't know why yet. Um, there may be a variety of reasons. I did have one gentleman who was doing great on it and then started to relapse back into depression. I asked him, has there been any change in your life?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: He said, no. So, are you doing anything differently? He said, the only thing I'm doing differently is having a few drinks at night. I said, well, how many? He said, maybe three to six beers a night. I said, well, can you cut back on that a little bit? He said, sure. So, he came back next time. He was doing well again.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: He said, I just stopped drinking. I just didn't need it. So we do know that excessive amounts or higher amounts of alcohol interfere with ketamine. And we believe the mechanism may be that it's causing inflammation of the brain. We know that alcohol can inflame the brain, especially at higher amounts. Um, so that may be one reason some people don't respond.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: There may be other reasons that some people don't respond. We don't know what they are yet, but I think as research continues, hopefully we can find out what some of those barriers are and work around those as well.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's incredible. That's just, that's the most amazing thing I've heard all year.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: I got to tell you, [00:41:00] Sam, it's a lot of fun being a psychiatrist these days and being able to help people, especially some of these folks that.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: I've been working with for years that, you know, really there wasn't a lot of hope for you. I mean, we kept trying different things, but nothing was working. And suddenly now, you know, they're coming in and telling me not just how well they're feeling, but, uh, but their friends, they're telling you about, I have one lady, when she goes to church, she's telling everybody at church, you know, that they need to try this.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: If they have these problems, because she's had such great results. I said, well, no, it's not for everybody. And they need to get in and see their doctor for an evaluation first. But, uh, people are, uh, promoting it because of the great results they're having. And they're so happy with it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's great to see treatments that are actually safe, actually effective, and people are happy to tell their friends to go see doctor, um, to get this for yourself because it's helped me so much.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's, it's good to see that coming back to the world.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It's wonderful. You know, it's wonderful that people, and it's affordable, people can do this treatment. Anybody can just about can afford this. And so it's accessible, which is nice. I mean, some of the new medicines, when they come out in psychiatry, some of the antidepressants, [00:42:00] ADHD meds, they may be 700, 000 a month.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: That's just not accessible. And for some people, even if they have insurance, insurance won't cover these medicines, they're too expensive. So it really has hampered people's access to mental health treatment. But this one is pretty affordable, affordable for just about anybody. So I think we're going to be able to help a lot more people with it also.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, when you get to a point where you have more information or another paper published, you have access to my show anytime you want,
Dr. Mitchell Liester: just let me know. Well, thank you, Sam. I appreciate that. Well, we've got several papers that we're submitting. Like I said, we do have. The case report of the patient has borderline personalities or had borderline personalities or doesn't anymore.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: We're also hoping to submit a paper. We've looked at the potential of ketamine to heal spinal cord injuries. The reason to believe that it may help those with spinal cord injuries because of this neuroplastic effect that it has in the nervous system. There's a interesting case report, um, of a man here in Colorado who wasn't on ketamine, but, uh, he [00:43:00] was, um, kite skiing, which I had to look that up and see what that was.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Because he was out skiing in Chile, South America. with a, like, parachute like device, a kite, that would carry him across the plains on snow. And when a gust of wind picked him up and slammed him into the ground, and he fractured nine vertebrae, he was paralyzed from the chest down. Um, he had spinal decompression surgery, went into rehab, and he got to where he was able to walk with a walker, but still was pretty much paralyzed.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: He went to a concert, and some friends gave him some psilocybin mushrooms, and he started feeling muscles firing in his legs that weren't firing before. And he continued to take it, and now he's able to mountain bike, ski, he's walking. And so that led us to think, you know, what is it about psilocybin mushrooms?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Well, it turns out they're one of these cycloplastogens that stimulate the nervous system. But a lot of people's spinal cord injuries may not want to take psilocybin, but could ketamine potentially do the same thing? We found out that there are studies showing that other cycloplastogens do show evidence for, uh, helping heal spinal cord injuries.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: So we hope to suggest this and [00:44:00] put a paper out there. So maybe some neurologists will pick it up and do some research into it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow, that's just a miracle. I mean, making the lame walk kind of miracle.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: It's amazing. The things we're seeing really truly are miracles considering what past medicine could and couldn't do.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: We're doing things that didn't happen before. And it's just, it's so wonderful to be able to help people in this way.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And with the occipital lobe regrowing, that's the blind scene. I mean, that's, it's all that.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Sam, it's amazing. Yeah, that, um, that case is supposed to be presented at Harvard Medical School this year.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: They've asked her, the, the patient to come to Harvard and talk about her case because they want to understand what happened because that shouldn't normally happen, but it did. And they have, like I said, radiographic evidence. They have MRIs showing it worked. And we ran this by our friend, a neurologist, just to make sure we weren't imagining things.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: He said, no, this is truly remarkable. Wow.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's incredible.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: So. Yep. So we're hoping that, uh, uh, and thanks to [00:45:00] your podcast and others that maybe more people will learn about this, hear about it and pursue it. Uh, I don't think we have all the answers. I think we're just scratching the surface, but we need help, you know, doing research and, and uh, getting more people out there exploring this and, and finding out maybe are there other regimens of dosing that might work better?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Are there different doses that might work better? You know, we're going with what works for us, but I'm sure there's still a lot we can do to improve what we're doing. Still too. Even adding in things to boost the effectiveness of the ketamine are possible. Um, studies that could be carried out in the future.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, diet mixed with ketamine might, might have even faster
Dr. Mitchell Liester: improvement. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's one of the things that excites me the most. Yes. Making dietary changes that we know stimulate BDNF and exercise. We know exercise stimulates BDNF, not at the level that ketamine does. Yes. What if you start combining treatments?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: How much better could that be for people? And maybe it would accelerate the growth. We don't know, but it's possible.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's amazing. Well, Dr. Leister, thank you so much for coming on with me, sharing so much. Um, this has been just [00:46:00] shocking. I've just been standing here just like, wow, I know a patient that that could help.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I know a patient that could help. And, you know, I've got them in my mind of who, who I would like to try this for, if they'd be willing to try it.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Well, Sam, I know a good pharmacist in Phoenix that can get you the medicine if you decide you want to start prescribing it for your patients. Awesome.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, and if people want to get ahold of you, is there a way that people can look at your, your work or find your papers, or should they go to NIH and search your name?
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Uh, yeah, I don't have a website, I'm old and so I haven't got my own website, so there are a couple of places, uh, they can go through, they can Google, um, my name, they can, uh, there's a website called ResearchGate that can be accessed by Academicians where I've published all the, all the papers we've done so far.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Uh, and they can also write to me, um, I'm not taking new patients, but I'm glad to share information. My email address is dr. Do I-E-S-T-E-R at proton, P-R-O-T-O-N. Dot me me. And I'll be glad to send people whatever information I have. I [00:47:00] have tons of papers, many, many, many papers about ketamine. It's therapeutic use and I'm glad to share information with anybody that wants to read about it and learn more.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, thank you so much. I, I am so. Grateful that you were able to come and share your, your best wealth of knowledge on this particular subject that I've never heard about before. And I am so grateful to God that you and I just happened to sit at the same table and start talking about these things.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Well, Sam, there are no coincidences in life.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: I don't think it was an accident. I was so happy when you sat down at the table too. And I'm so thrilled that we met and that we're getting to continue as friends and colleagues. And I hope we can continue this collaboration relationship.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yes, sir. God bless you and keep doing his work.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: Thank you, Sam.
Dr. Mitchell Liester: We're going to do our best.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, in duty uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.[00:48:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn&a
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123. Dr. Kathleen Ruddy, Cancer and Ivermectin
Today I talk with Dr. Kathleen Ruddy. She is a breast cancer surgeon, author, and inventor. She has now changed her practice and is using medications like Ivermectin to treat cancer. She can now treat cancers that previously she would not have been able treat.
https://drruddymadisonrose.com/
KathleenTRuddyMD@protonmail.com
Please enjoy. Like, follow, and share. Thank you.
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123. Dr. Ruddy
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Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: [00:00:00] how many patients with stage four prostate cancer who were given three weeks to live, a year later, have ongoing remission. Within two months, Paul Mann, based on ivermectin alone, his PSA went from something in the 700s, 800s to
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Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you'll be encouraged to question everything[00:02:00]
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: Well, thank you for joining me again. I want to first thank all my Patreon subscribers. We've got Too Tough at the 30 level. We've got The Anonymous Family Donor at 20. 20 a month. We have The Plandemic Reprimando at 17. 76 with Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stan, uh, Stanley, Dr. Anna, uh, Frank, Brian, Shell.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: Brantley, Gary, and Sharon. The 10 level with Kevin and Patton Bev. The refined, not burned, at 5 a month with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. Addison Mulder's giving 3 a month, and Frank is giving 1. 50 a month. We have the Courageous Contagious with Jay, SpessNasty, [00:03:00] Darrell, Susan, B.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: B. King, and Caleb, thank you so much for helping me in my endeavors. Also, please be sure and check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours for some of the best beef that I've ever had. Well, thank you for joining me. I have Dr. Kathleen Ruddy. She is a surgeon. And she used to work on breast cancer. She used to do breast cancer surgery.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: And Dr. Ruddy, thank you so much for coming on and talking with me. I first heard you talk at the FLCCC conference and you have a new and unique and probably a better way to treat cancer. Can you introduce yourself and kind of explain where you came from and where you are now in your thought on cancer treatment?
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Right. So thank you for having me. Um, I spent my career as a breast cancer surgeon and thought I was coming to the end of it, uh, when COVID broke out. Um, and so obviously I couldn't leave [00:04:00] the profession at that point. Uh, I began prescribing ivermectin for patients with COVID because. My reading of the emerging information coming from South Africa and from India was that ivermectin was effective and safe in preventing and treating COVID.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: And then, of course, I began to follow the great work of Drs. Merrick and Corey. That got me interested in ivermectin. Um, it's not something that surgeons generally get themselves involved with, parasites and ivermectin. We do maybe a couple of antibiotics. And then call in the experts, right? Um, so I was surprised to learn that there was 20 years of research showing in preclinical data that is prior to human data.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: So in the laboratory, in human cancer cell [00:05:00] lines. and in animal models that ivermectin and other repurposed medications showed great promise. As a matter of fact, um, invariably every scientific paper I read, these were peer reviewed, um, while, you know, during the time where peer review meant something. And, uh, invariably the, the authors of the paper would conclude that the results were so compelling that There really should be clinical studies to evaluate the efficacy of these drugs in humans.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Every paper, one after another, said the same thing. Of course, because ivermectin is 10 cents a pill, it's been off patent for decades. Um, it was absolutely impossible to think that ivermectin would be repurposed as a cancer medication or any of the others, actually, mebendazole being another one. Um, well, I had the opportunity to, [00:06:00] um, provide some guidance for, uh, three patients.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: with a very advanced endoraggressive cancer about a year ago and They decided based on their own reading of the Information on the internet that they wanted to use ivermectin The first one was a man who you may have met out in Phoenix Paul man who has stage four prostate cancer and He had two Pfizer vaccines.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Two months after his second shot, he was diagnosed with stage four prostate cancer. He was 53 years old, no family history. Um, a marathoner, very fit. Um, the second patient was a man in his late 60s who was diagnosed with unresectable, that is the surgeons would not dare to try to remove it, it's too hazardous.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: So it was unresectable esophageal [00:07:00] carcinoma. Actually there were two lesions in his esophagus. And, uh, his doctor said, you know, the only thing we can do is chemo and radiation. He said, well, that's nice, goodbye. And the third woman had, um, a huge 18 centimeter tumor in her pelvis that originated from the lining of her stomach.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: And all three of those patients had astonishing results with ivermectin. Uh, Eddie, who's the guy with two esophageal tumors who had no treatment whatsoever, nothing, you couldn't possibly argue that it might've been something else that helped. No, all they did was take ivermectin and his tumors went away within six weeks, two months, completely gone.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Um, yeah, the woman who had the 18 centimeter tumor that was resected, um, a pretty, uh, remarkable feat of the surgical oncologists and the other teams. Uh, they resected that gigantic thing with negative margins, but [00:08:00] she had, uh, metastasis in her liver and, uh, postoperatively, she had a pretty uneventful postoperative course and, uh, decided she was going to take ivermectin and the metastasis in her liver cleared up entirely.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Uh, Paul Mann, who you met, um, who was given three weeks to live and, you know, like hospice, call the priest, whatever, um, started ivermectin slowly, slowly, slowly. began to respond and get better. Uh, and as you know, he's out dancing in four hours, three nights a week now. Um, his tumor is not, uh, completely, uh, regressed.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Um, so he's considering other interventions, other repurposed medications and so forth. So after I had seen these three, one, two, three, I was like, there's something, something going on here that looks important. Um, knowing that the pharmaceutical industry was never going to You know, move on this [00:09:00] and if pharma is not going to move, no one is going to move by and large.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: So the academic institutions and the philanthropies, no one's going to drop a dime on ivermectin. Uh, and so I began to think that it was important for somebody to do something, right? I mean, if these medications. are as effective as they appear to be in the laboratory and as they appear to be in three patients.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Three patients is not seven billion people, but three patients in a row, um, is a lot considering their response. Um, I thought to myself, what am I going to do? And I had to give myself time to think hard about what would be a strategic acceptable, ethical, uh, scientifically sound, um, approach to answering the question, does ivermectin and other repurposed medications improve the survival of [00:10:00] patients with cancer?
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: And I came upon the idea for an observation study, such as the one that was done at Framingham, Massachusetts, Where investigators just went in and asked a bunch of questions, you know, every two years they showed up with a gigantic questionnaire and they asked, I think, 52, 000 people in Framingham, Massachusetts, you know, what are you eating?
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: What are you drinking? What are you doing? How do you live in? And it was over a period of decades that the Framingham study was able to To, uh, illustrate and illuminate, um, correlations and then causation that were heretofore unknown, such as an increased risk of breast cancer in women who were taking hormone replacement therapy.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: That came out of the Framingham study. So among others, um, so I thought, okay, an observational study where all I'm doing is recording the data. I have a questionnaire. I'm recording the data. Um, [00:11:00] and so I launched it, uh, privately. Um, you know, word of mouth, I don't have a website, it wasn't on social media, it was all very, you know, um, just grass roots in a quiet way, um, and I was getting patients who were desperate, they had the turbo cancer.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Um, they, they were giving up or more commonly the doctors were giving up on them because there was nothing else they could do. And the patients were like, you know what? I'm not dead yet. I'm not interested in dying. Don't tell me you don't have anything else to do. Let me see if there is something else to do.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Well, Paul Merrick, Dr. Merrick found out about the study, uh, through the, you know, grapevine network. And, uh, he called me and we talked about it. And, um, we agreed that the next best step would be to enlarge the study, have multiple principal investigators [00:12:00] all doing their own thing, as it were, except that we would be coordinated.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: First of all, we would be working under the leadership of Dr. Smiric. and Corey at the FLCCC, which is a marvelous opportunity for everyone. Um, we agreed on a data collection set. So, you know, Framingham was the same questions, you know, pretty much year in and year out, except if there were new questions.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: That had been derived from prior data. Um, so we agreed, uh, on what the data set should look like. Uh, and we're all very happy with it. Uh, and now, um, we're in the process of, um, arranging for a institutional review board. I have my own ethics review board. The point is that you have a panel of independent professionals.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Um, peppered in part by [00:13:00] people who are, um, somewhat familiar with the world at large, but not necessarily experts in the field of cancer, parasitology, infectious disease. So for instance, in my ethics review board, I have retired, uh, principal of an elementary school. Very capable, very capable woman. So the FLCCC is putting together, um, their own institutional review board.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: And the job of the institutional review board, this independent panel is to ensure the proper conduct and conduct of the investigation. The other thing that FLCCC has done is to, um, retain a world class biostatistician. So I and the other principal investigators will be contributing our data to FLCCC, who will then be sharing that data with the biostatistician.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: [00:14:00] She will be the one who crunches the numbers. So I will not He's saying, you know, my study did this, we showed that, blah, blah, blah, it's all going to be turned over to an independent biostatistician of the highest caliber, who will then tell me and tell us. What did she see in the data? So at this point, I'm recruiting patients to my study.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: As I say, they're six principal investigators. Everybody's doing it a little bit differently, but that's okay because we've agreed to the data set and we've agreed to have leadership with FLCC. Um, my particular study, um, is a two part process. The first process step is to begin with an initial consultation.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: And that allows me to become acquainted with the patient and familiarize myself with the medical record, the history of the cancer, the kind of cancer, the treatment, the patient's [00:15:00] overall health, the patient's preferences. How about that? Patient gets to decide all along the way what they want. And then my part of the job is to offer guidance and information that the patient needs to help them make the decisions that are right for them with regard to repurpose medications.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: It doesn't mean that they cannot follow. Um, the physicians in their own established network, they don't have to choose between conventional and repurposed. Um, I'm neutral. I'm here to provide information and to collect information. The second step after the initial consultation, which also allows the patient to become acquainted with me and how I work and my body of knowledge, and they can judge on their own whether that's valuable to them.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Did they learn a lot? Um, do they now know, uh, do they have a road map? Um, so at the [00:16:00] end of the initial consultation, if they decide, after further thought, that they want to enroll in the study, then that's another step. And the study, for my part, is a two year study. That involves ongoing consultations as needed.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Patients who are doing well don't need consultations as frequently. Patients who are sick need a lot of attention and they get it. So, that's it in a nutshell.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: And what state are you in? And if people want to become part of your Your observational study. How did they join that? Is there a way to join it?
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Yes. Uh, well, um, because this is, uh, uh, guidance, not, I'm not providing medical advice. I'm not prescribing medications. If patients do not have a physician or a pharmacist who can prescribe or dispense, I can put them in touch with reliable colleagues who will be able to prescribe the medications and dispense in every state in the country.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: So these [00:17:00] are, um, basically telephone consultations after the review of the medical record. So patients all over the country, actually around the world now, are calling me and we're doing these initial consultations. Um, so the best way to get in touch with me is to send an email to Kathleen T, as in Thomas, Ruddy, R U D D Y, M D, at protonmail.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: com. Um, you send me an email, tell me you're interested, whatever. I'll get in touch with you and we'll take it from there.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: That sounds wonderful. Hopefully with this episode, some people will be willing to reach out to you and find out how they can try some new, and not really new, but some alternative methods that may work better than the traditional theory for treatment of cancer.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Well, that's the question. I mean, the question is a simple question. Do patients with cancer who take these [00:18:00] repurposed medications have an improved survival compared to patients Who in historical record have not taken these medications. So we have historical data. We can go back. I mean the National Cancer Institute, the Cancer Society, there's a wealth of historical data about how many patients with stage four prostate cancer who were given three weeks to live a year later have Ongoing remission within two months.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Paul Mann, based on Ivermectin alone, um, his PSA went from something in the seven hundreds, eight hundreds to one. Wow. And another patient recently 90 years old. Um, and he is what we call a cardiac cripple. He has a lot of cardiac issues. And eight years ago he was diagnosed with prostate cancer, um, because he wasn't a surgical candidate.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: He had radiation therapy [00:19:00] recently, his. PSA started to climb again slowly, but surely, which is an indication that the prostate cancer has come back and it's starting to spit out this protein PSA. Um, so he called me and, um, he said, you know, I don't know what they're not going to, they can't do any more surgery.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: I'm not taking chemo. I'm 90, you know, what do you think? And I said, well, if you're interested in ivermectin, I can put you in touch with someone who could provide that for you. And within a month, this PSA went from. What was it? 18 to one. Wow. That's just absolutely incredible. Yeah, so it remains a question.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: I'm, I'm not planting the flag on these repurposed medications as being better than or even effective, you know, anecdotal information are stories with points to them, you know, and the point of [00:20:00] the first three stories I told you is that we need to look into this. And so, and so we are, we are going to look into it and we're going to do this.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Um, in such a way that we will not be vulnerable to criticism with regard to the design of the study or the conduct of the site. Um, and we'll have a biostatistician who will crunch the numbers and we'll see what's what. So we're going to do it the right way.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: Yeah, I think it's incredible that the first of all, your mind is open enough to see this because, you know, it's.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: It, you know, you hear these anecdotal stories and for the lay person, it may be like, wow, why isn't everybody using this? But then when you look at it from the scientific mind, the medicine mind, you're like, well, that's an anecdote. We need more evidence. But so often in medicine these days, it's hard to believe any actual evidence that's out there because so much of it, if you go into a study with [00:21:00] a certain frame of mind, you can pull that What you're looking for, you can pull that out.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: You can manipulate the numbers to get what you want out. But when you actually go into, um, asking the question honestly and openly, that's the only time you get the real answer. And so much of medicine, as I'm sure you are aware of, is, is so slanted one direction away from asking honest questions.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Well, to be fair, some of the clinical studies that are, have been done in the past and in fact are being done now are very restrictive because the question that they're asking is very narrow and it applies only to a small group of patients.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Um, that said, there is no doubt that the pharmaceutical industry is avaricious. And homicidal, genocidal, [00:22:00] they don't care. And I know this from personal experience, having dealt with the executives at Johnson and Johnson at the highest levels in the executive suite over 30 years ago. And it was then that I had my rude awakening.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: They absolutely made a decision to let people die. Or be harmed rather than change a surgical device so that it was safer. It was easier to settle lawsuits. It was easier to write a check and say to someone who had been injured, don't tell anybody here's 10 million or whatever, then to retool their surgical instruments and.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: admit that their prior instruments were unsafe, had caused deaths. So I just saw that and, and when the story was we're going to have vaccines to [00:23:00] prevent SARS CoV 2 infection, I knew that was a lie. I knew that. I knew that from prior experience. You couldn't make a vaccine against a coronavirus. Um, and so now everyone knows what I learned The hard way and what many of us learn the hard way, you cannot trust the pharmaceutical industry.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: They must be dismissed in terms of discussions about how to proceed. Certainly in this case, and in most cases now, they have, um, they've fallen on their own sword, not by design, uh, but they, they were out there killing us and maiming us. Uh, with no regard for the dignity of human life, for the suffering that they inflicted, and no regard today, no regrets whatsoever.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: And so, okay, that's the battlefield? Fine. [00:24:00] We're going to push forward with this. It's really important. Patients who have cancer, particularly the turbo cancers, those related to SARS CoV 2 infection, but more importantly those related to the vaccine, um, they're suffering in a way that is unimaginable.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: COVID came and went. Not that COVID was not a catastrophe, but COVID came and went. And COVID is not an issue. Now, long COVID is, Post vaccine injury, big problem. Cancer is here to stay. It's been with us for too many years now, despite racing around in circles for a cure that doesn't exist, at least based on most of the mainstream treatments, not all, but most.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Um, so we're just going to move out in a [00:25:00] different direction. Um, and pharma can get out of the way. Please, get out of the way, because we're coming through.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: If you could, can you explain a little bit what Dr. Paul Merrick said at FLCCC with the two theories of cancer, and how one theory won over the other theory, and how the one that lost originally may be the more correct one.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Well, you know, that reminds me of physics. So, um, physics evolves, okay? I don't know if you know anything about physics, but physics evolves, okay? So. First, we really didn't think very much about physics, probably the Persians did, because they're really smart. Um, and then Sir Isaac Newton came along and he thought hard.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Anecdotal information. Apples always fall from the tree. And everybody knew that. Everybody could see that. Nobody thought why. But Isaac Newton was like, why are the apples, why does [00:26:00] everything fall? And then he looked up at the sky and he was looking at the stars and the planets. He goes, maybe they're falling too.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Maybe everything is falling. Well, he was right. Everything is falling. He wasn't able to describe that using words, so he created the calculus to be able to describe it mathematically. Um, and that was, that was it. You know, that was Newtonian physics for many years, you know, centuries. That was replaced, um, in the 1900s with a new view, um, Einsteinian view and Schrodinger and so on and so forth.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: This is true with medicine. So at first we knew nothing about what caused cancer, although there were those who thought That cancer might perhaps be an infectious disease. That was in the late 1800s. Um, then when Mendel, um, was able to show that there were genetic inheritance [00:27:00] patterns in the peas he was growing in this garden, you know, in the abbey.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Um, and he published the laws of inheritance. The question was, well, what's carrying these inheritance? We'll call those genes. Genes carry blue eyes or brown eyes. Well, not too long thereafter, about 30 years thereafter, um, Clarence Cook Little and others at Harvard were like, we're going to find the genes that cause cancer, how about that?
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Okay, we're going to find the genes that cause everything. And that has been the mother load since. Find the genes. So we found the BRCA1 and 2 genes that predispose to breast cancer. But if you carry a BRCA1 gene, okay, 1 percent of Ashkenazi Jews carry the BRCA1 gene. This gene, you have an 85 percent lifetime risk of getting breast cancer.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: What about the other 15 percent of people? They have the same gene. They don't get breast cancer? What's up with that? [00:28:00] Okay. So the genes are not, you know, the be all and end all of the disease. Other things are involved. Tumor viruses are certainly involved. In my view, this is my view. Write it in pencil.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Don't write it in pen. My view is that all cancers are caused by tumor viruses. We just haven't figured out what's what. So I think if I recall correctly, what Paul was talking about, Dr. Merrick was talking about was the most recent iteration of the cause of cancer as being genetic. And yes, indeed, we have found the Philadelphia chromosome with certain forms of leukemia.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Right. As it turns out, it's as if We're chasing, um, genes all over the map now and hoping that there'll be a clue they've not been as satisfying as we hoped they would be. The whole genomic and genetic mutation pursuit, they haven't been fruitless. [00:29:00] I'm not saying that it's just that we're not going to find what we're looking for just by looking at the genes or even looking at epigenetics.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: That is the switches that control genes. We're gonna have to look at other things. Um, and there's some very interesting other things to look at. Um, several decades ago, um, the thought was put forth that the origin of cancer occurs in the mitochondria, not in the nucleus. So the nucleus is where the, the genes are.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Problem's not necessarily in the nucleus, the problem is in the mitochondria, which is your, your power cell, right? It's the industrial plant making the energy. Um, and, oh, by the way, half of the DNA in your body, Inside the nucleus comes from your father and half comes from your mother, right? But most of the DNA in your body resides in the mitochondria.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Most of it. Way more DNA in the [00:30:00] mitochondria and all of that comes from your mother. Okay? Mother's Day, right? So, if you disrupt the mechanisms in the powerhouse of the cell, you can do so by manipulating the DNA in the mitochondria. Um, and some thought has been given that that's, that's where it is. It's in the mitochondria.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: I hold to the following hypothesis, uh, generated by Dr. John Bittner who discovered the breast cancer virus in 1936. And he proposed and I agree with him and others have agreed as well. It's not just Dr. Bittner, God rest his soul and myself, plenty of others, plenty of other people, including those at the NIH and the National Cancer Institute.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Um, I think it's distinctly possible, we know that this actually happens, tumor viruses get inside the cell and they can get around, they can get into the mitochondria. And they can alter the [00:31:00] mitochondria so that the mitochondria no longer supplies energy to the body economy, as it were, or the total economy of that particular cell.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: They can get into the DNA and they can play around with the DNA and, you know, trigger oncogenes and, and do insertions and all kinds of crazy stuff. I actually think it's a constellation, Dr. Bittner said there are three things that you need to form cancer. So it's a simple equation back to algebra. Okay.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: We all remember algebra, 10th grade, right? 9th grade. So you have a genetic predisposition, getting back to the BRCA patients. Not everyone gets the cancer, but you have the exact same mutation. So you have a genetic predisposition. Yes. You have a tumor virus, yes. No tumor virus, no cancer. P. S. We're swimming in a sea of tumor viruses that are everywhere.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Epstein Barr and herpes and this one and that one, so you won't have a problem bumping into a tumor [00:32:00] virus. Your immune system is there to defend you against them, but don't worry, um, if you think you're going to escape a tumor virus, yeah, think again. Uh, and the third factor, which is the big, long list, are other factors.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: So, so men who have BRCA mutation tend not to get breast cancer. Although most men who get breast cancer have a BRCA mutation, but what you need to get breast cancer is something that drives. Demutation and that's estrogen and men don't make estrogen at least not men that we understand men as we understood Up until about two years ago When all of that got scrambled,
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: that's okay here.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: You can clearly say that men don't make as much estrogen as women
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: There's a reason because they're men
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: I did have a patient once who ate a lot of soy and he believed, because he was, I believe he was BRC negative, but [00:33:00] he believed it was the soy intake that helped contribute to his breast cancer.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Well, that's just the impossibility because there are pathways to do that.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: But anyway, this long list of other factors. So you start with the genetic predisposition, you get a tumor virus involved, very easy to do, and then you have these other factors, smoking, drinking, age, as you get older your immune system starts to wither away, um, environmental, BPA, uh, 5G. You know, chemtrails, pick your favorite, you know, carcinogen, there's a long list.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: And then you, you know, you pile one on top of another and it's a wonder that not everybody has cancer. But then I guess now we have the mother of all other factors and that's the mRNA vaccine spike protein, which was designed as a bioweapon, works very well as a bioweapon. Thanks guys, you get an A on that science [00:34:00] project and you're killing us.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Because it causes cancer and it absolutely causes an increased proliferation of the cancers that exist. That's the turbo cancer that we're seeing now. So we're in a world of hurt. Um, so I think to answer your question, Dr. Merrick was talking about the old school, you know, we're going to Find the genes and you know, most everyone is doing that still.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Okay. But that's how science is. Everybody's always doing the old stuff and they don't want to do the new stuff. Um, and now we've got, uh, the metabolic cause, you know, mitochondria, metabolic. Yep. That's hot. Um, and there's something to it. I'm not saying that the mitochondria is not yeah. Altered? I know exactly how it is altered.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: I understand that. I don't think that that is going to be where we find, aha, the Rosetta Stone for understanding cancer. I think what we need to do, I [00:35:00] think we need to understand, and this may be the next phase, if I can nudge the crowd in this direction. Pay attention. Let's go back to a hundred years of research on tumor viruses and let's pay attention.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Let's begin to understand what tumor viruses do to the DNA. What do tumor viruses do to the mitochondria? And once the normal cell becomes a clone of the virus, right? A kind of biologic clone. Viruses only want to replicate. That's it. It's a short agenda, okay? They come in to destroy. They're the mother of all parasites.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: All they want to do is multiply, divide, and they'll do everything that they can to do that. And that's what cancers do. That's exactly what cancers do. So I think that's where we're headed. That's, I hope, where I can contribute some attention. [00:36:00] While I'm drawing some light to the question of these repurposed medications,
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: what other repurposed medications are you seeing?
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: beneficial we mentioned the Ivermectin and then the bend is all and in the FLCC conference You talked about helping my bend is all can't cross the blood brain barrier. But what are some other medications that you found?
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: There's a long list and dr. Marik, by the way, wrote the best monograph on this cancer care wrote it last year astonishing accomplishment.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Everyone should read it. You need to read it. Anyway, um, so sidenafil, uh, metformin, aspirin, new information, relatively new, doxycycline, vitamin C in combination with doxycycline, is particularly powerful at nailing cancer stem cells. Cancer stem cells are the real bad boys in the action here. Chemotherapy and [00:37:00] radiation therapy do not eradicate cancer stem cells.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: As a matter of fact, when you try and kill tumor cells, they send out like an SOS. Like we're dying, save our ship, you know, uh, and the cancer stem cells are activated by this. So the cancer stem cells are immune to the impact of chemotherapy and radiation therapy, by and large, and they grow, which is why patients will have a good response.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Oh, the chemotherapy is working, radiation therapy, oh, the tumor got smaller, and then all of a sudden comes back. It comes back because of the cancer stem cells. And this combination of doxycycline, I mean, Talk about a cheap antibiotic. I think it's a penny a pill, you know, um, plus vitamin C, and you don't have to do intravenous vitamin C.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: You can just, you know, like oral doses of vitamin C. I know the absorption is not the greatest. You don't need the greatest. Doxycycline vitamin C in these preclinical studies. Uh, get over 90 percent of the cancer stem [00:38:00] cells. And then there was another paper, doxycycline, azithromycin, the Z Pak, remember Dr.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Salenko and his Z Pak, um, and vitamin C. Highly, highly, highly effective in that combination. The cancer stem cells were wiped out. So, perhaps, where we need to be going with this is to think, how can we. Stop the growth of the tumor without encouraging it to regrow. How can we stop the growth of the tumor without hurting the patient?
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: How about that? Um, how can we smoke out the stem cells and kill all of them? Because at the end of the day, you have to kill the cancer. Or the cancer will kill you. Very simple. Patients, in my experience, want to live as long as possible. I mean, we're all going to die. And then if you're Catholic and you're [00:39:00] baptized, you're going to heaven.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Maybe the Protestants too. That's a bit of a joke. Um, anybody who believes, we'll let you in. Okay. Um, so, we're going to die. We want to live as long as possible. We want to be healthy. We don't want to be suffering. I get it, I get it. But mostly, when you're talking to a cancer patient, they want their cancer to go away.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: They do not necessarily want to live longer with cancer. They want to live longer without cancer. Thank you very much They do not want their cancer to be described as a chronic disease. We don't need another chronic disease Okay, we have enough we need to get rid of the ones we have. Okay, not increase the list It's like the national debt forget the next chronic disease get rid of the cancer kill the cancer Or the cancer will kill you.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: It comes down to that. In my view.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: I think that's perfect. I think that's amazing. I think this is a great place to start wrapping up. Um, I want to thank you so much for coming on. I'm sorry for [00:40:00] having such a short episode, but we are limited on time today. Yeah. Dr. Ruddy, this has been amazing eye opening, and I hope that there's some small way that I can help contribute to your, your research.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: If you need to use me as a resource, I'd be happy to, um, to see patients in the area. And I'll get to, and I'll let you know where I am when, when this is over.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Yeah, I appreciate that. What I would like to suggest is that your viewers and yourself, please contribute to the FLCC. I don't get any money from them.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: I'm going to die, uh, and I'm not going to, I'm working very independently, but they need help. Please have your viewers contribute. If you want to make a difference, if you want to move the needle, at last, let's really move the needle here, grassroots effort, then please donate to FLCCC. Have your viewers do that.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Um, And you've already shown up for your part of the job [00:41:00] because you're doing the podcast. So you're doing what you can do, which is share the information. So thank you very much for that.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: Yes, ma'am. And if you're looking for a place to donate, FLCC link will be listed down below in the show notes. So please, if you find it in your heart to give to this organization.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: Uh, I suggest you do that. This has been a great organization that come up with many different protocols to help with a vaccine injury, long COVID, um, uh, COVID therapy, how to treat people with COVID. And it's been very beneficial for me clinically, even.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: Well, thank you, Dr. Ruddy. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time. God bless you.
Dr. Kathleen Ruddy: Thank you very much. You too. Bye now.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, in duty uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.[00:42:00]
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow that gives birth to the calf.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: It's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare to What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it. It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece [00:43:00] of meat.
Dr. Samuel Sigoloff: Check out mycleanbeef.com/Afterhours. That's mycleanbeef.com/afterhours, mycleanbeef.com/afterhours.
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122. Tom Haviland and Embalmer Survey
Today I have Tom Haviland back. He had completed a survey again asking embalmers what they saw and when they saw it. This survey is larger and world wide. Please enjoy. Like, follow, and share. Thank you.
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122. Tom Haviland
===
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: [00:00:00] Well, Sam, God bless the Pennsylvania Funeral Directors Association, he did exactly as I asked. So in just two days, I got a hundred twenty-five responses from embalmers in one U.S state, and it told me two things. I told me, first of all, embalmers, they wanna tell you what they're seeing in the embalming room if they feel like they have their permission from their funeral home director.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: But it also told me something else, right? There were twenty-nine other state funeral director associations I sent that email to. They must not have forwarded it down to their embalmers. They must have suppressed it, hit the delete key and not forwarded it. So it tells me there's a huge suppression going on at the Funeral Director Association level, not to want to take the survey.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: There shouldn't be any reason not to wanna take it. I'm only asking you what did you see, when did you see it, and how much are you seeing?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from River Bend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice. [00:01:00] Has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given MRNA vaccines.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised in the USA, it's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow that gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then take into their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare what we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Bundles that have rib eyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as $184 to $59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out mycleanbeef.com/afterhours. That's mycleanbeef.com/afterhours. MycleanBeef.com/afterhours
Nurse Kelly: welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff on this podcast. You'll
Nurse Kelly: be encouraged to question everything.
Nurse Kelly: And to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, thank you for joining me again. I want to first thank all my Patreon subscribers. We've got two tough at the $30 level. We've got the Anonymous family Donor at $20 and 20 cents a month. We have the Plandemic Reprimando at $17 and 76 cents with Ty. Charles Tinfoil, Stan, uh, Stanley Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna, uh, Frank Brian Shell, Brantley, Gary and Sharon the $10 level with [00:03:00] Kevin and Patton Bev. The refined not burned at $5 a month with Linda at Emmy. Joe. P.J, Rebecca Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn Ken, Rick Mary and Amanda Addison. Mulder is giving $3 a month and Frank is giving a dollar 50 a month. We have the Courage Is Contagious with Jay Spesnasty Darrell, Susan BB King.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Caleb, thank you so much for, for helping me in my endeavors. Also, please be, be sure and check out MyCleanBeef.com slash After Hours for some of the best beef that I've ever had. My next guest is Tom Haviland, retired major Haviland has been here before and he's talked about embalmers finding blood clots or these white fibrous clots.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And he's done a survey before and now he's done another survey. Uh, this is a worldwide survey that he's done. I. Tom, thank you so much for coming on with us
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Dr. Sam, thanks for having me on the show again. Really appreciate you having me on. [00:04:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So let's jump into the information of what you've discovered.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Okay. To refresh the memory of your audience, uh, we, we, we talked about a year ago. I completed the first survey is based on me. Uh, I watched that movie died suddenly, uh, Sam. To refresh the memory of your audience, it is about an hour long documentary. People can still see it on Rumble, and about half that movie is devoted to these six or seven embalmers that saw these white fibers, clots in their corpses that they've never seen before.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: They've been involved embalming many years, and it's the first time they ever saw this phenomenon. And they said it kind of started in 20. Which was an interesting time period because if you remember, there was a certain medical intervention that came out at the beginning of 2021. So the timing is kind of a suspicious.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So I did a survey last year and that there were three main conclusions of that survey. Sam, of the 179 of the bombers that responded to that first survey, almost exactly two-thirds, [00:05:00] 66%, 119 of those bombers said they were seeing, uh, the white fibers, clots. By by the end of 20 twenty-two. The main consensus of the embalmers were that the clots started for them in, uh, the year 20 twenty-one.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: There were a few embalmers, however, that did see them in 2020, which is interesting 'cause that's the year that we had covid, uh, but no medical interventions yet. Um, and the last, and maybe the most shocking conclusion that first survey, Sam, is that many of these embalmers were finding these clots in up to 50% or more of their.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: The average was about 30%, but some of the embalmers were seeing even a much higher percentage of their corpses. So if they were telling me it's not a, uh, a rare event, it's a prevalent thing that was happening. So a full year went by. I, I've gone on lots of podcasts, including, including yours, and I decided at the end here of 20 twenty-three going into 20 twenty-four to survey the embalmers again to see what they were seeing, uh, by the end of 20 [00:06:00] twenty-three.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So we ran the survey again. I ran it from the 8th of December through the 8th of January, and if you got the, the, uh, presentations on the screen, so do you want me to go ahead and step through the slides and show you the data that I collected?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you could and, and, okay. You know, since we're using Riverside, I don't know exactly how this is gonna work out in the end.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you have to click something to show it, uh, this may just run at the same time. So I don't know if you have to click anything or not.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Okay. I am just going to scroll down my scroll bars. I noticed that works. So I think, okay. Can you see the next slide? Yes, sir. That's working well. Okay. Uh, the first question by the way, in this year's survey is we always ask the embalmers where are.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: They're a little skittish about identifying exactly where they're from, so, uh, and who they are. So we allow them to answer the survey anonymously. Sam, um, we turned off the IP tracking feature in SurveyMonkey, and, but our first question was for, [00:07:00] in the U.S, for example, is what state are you from? Um, and. We wanted to do that because we got enough results.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: We were wanting to check for regionality to see if there might be something to what's called the bad batch theory. You know, if with like maybe the Northwest United States had was a hot spot for a lot of, uh, findings of these clots as opposed to maybe the southeast, you know, unfortunately we did not get enough responses, Sam, to really check what we call regionality.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So, but it was still interesting to see where the responses were coming in from. So the second question we asked Embalmers this year was, well, how many years have you been in embalmer? And as you can see there, quite a few of them have over 20 years of experience. And that's a good thing, right, Sam?
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Because they know what the blood looked like in the years prior to Covid. They know what it looked like in twenty-twenty the year we had covid, but no vaccines yet. And they also know what it looks like in twenty-twenty-one to present in the years that we have both the Covid virus and the vaccine. [00:08:00] So that's a good thing.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: We, and the average of about 15 years of experience. We then ask the, uh, embalmers, how many corpses do you personally embalm per year? And if you take all those bars, average 'em together, you get about a hundred corpses per year. And, uh, that's also a good thing, right? So these, they embalm bodies on a regular basis.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: One of the embalmers that I deal with, uh, quite often is, uh, Mr. Richard Hirschman from the Died Suddenly movie. He's a trade embalmer, Sam, and he actually, uh, has contracts with about a dozen different funeral homes, uh, in Alabama where he does his embalming and he'll do, uh, usually over 300 corpses per year.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So he, he's very active. So, but the average there is about a hundred corpses a year. So these embalmers, these active embalmers, they know what they're seeing. They know what a body is supposed to look like, so we asked them the same question that we asked them. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you go back up and, and you may answer this later in your presentation, [00:09:00] but the, the part where it says like some of 'em give, do 300, you have, uh, 13 bombers that do over 300 a year.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, do you break it down where they more likely to see these fibrous clots? And you, you may answer this later. Uh, or where the ones who do less, or was it just kind of an average? They, everyone sees the same number of clots.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I did not go through and, and check to see, uh, the, the ones that did heavier amounts of body, seeing more clots.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: That's a good idea though. 'cause I think I have, the data will allow me to do that because I have the individual responses, so I could probably go back and track that, but I have not checked that yet. That's a, that's a, that's a good suggestion, Sam.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: My guess is they're, they'll probably see the same percentages roughly, regardless of whether they involve fewer bodies or more bodies. Unless maybe, uh, a more experienced embalmer who embalms more bodies may have a, a, uh, better technique. And I think sometimes it may come down to technique, right? An embalmer who's [00:10:00] very thorough would probably, uh, have find the clots more easily than somebody I.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Some embalmers are just called fluid pushers. You just try to try to get the fluid in and they don't do as a, a, a thorough as job as others. Those, those would probably be less likely to find the clots. But I, I didn't wanna insult the embalmers by asking, are you a fluid pusher or are you somebody who really takes your job seriously?
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So, so we just left the question the way it was. Um, of course the next question we asked, we wanted to know, uh, just like we did last year. Have you observed the white fibrous clot structures, uh, that you embalmed in, uh, 20 twenty-three? As you can see, there's pretty shocking results, Sam, of the 200 sixty-nine embalmers that responded to this year's survey.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So we got 90 more, uh, responses to this year's survey. We went from one seventy-nine last year to two sixty-nine this year in terms of responses. But as you can see, there's seventy-three percent of the EMB involvement is a hundred ninety-seven out of the two sixty-nine [00:11:00] this year. Saw the white fibrous clots in 2023, so that's not a good thing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Another follow up question I have for this particular slide is if you could also run those numbers, if it's something you want to do to see if the people that were more likely to see the clots were the more experienced, more years in in this particular field as compared to, uh, the very few who had only been doing this for like two years to see if there's a difference there.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Yeah, that's a good idea as well. Thanks. So then I'll obviously, the next natural question is, well, in what percentage of your corpses are you seeing these white fibers clots? Right. So as you can see there on the slide, uh, the answer is 20%. If you take all the, the, the bars there, including the green bar or sixty-three in Balmersall, none, and you do a weighted average, you come up with an average of about 20% of the corpses.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Uh, in 2023 contain these white fibrous clots, and that's down from [00:12:00] 30% in our last year survey in 2022. So that's a good trend. But you know what, that's not necessarily necessarily a vindication of the medical intervention that started in 2021 because as you know, most Americans took their first two medical interventions, Dr.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Sam, in 2021. About 80% of Americans, according to the CDC, took the medical intervention. Then only about 20% of American adults over the age of 18 took the Bivalent Omicron booster for BA-IV and BA-V. That came out in the fall of twenty-Twenty-two, and then, uh, even less Americans, I think it was only 15% or less, took the latest XBB-one 0.5 booster that came out last fall.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So you might expect the, the, uh, percentage of corpses with the white fibers class to go down. The further and further away you get from people taking their last medical interventions. So as you can see, you know, the note there on the slide is [00:13:00] embalmers saw these in zero percents of their corpses prior to, uh, 20 20 20.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Yeah. If you look to left there, you can see forty-eight of the embalmers saw the white fibrous clots between 21 to 40% of their corpses. Um. Twenty-nine in Bulmer saw between forty-one to 60% of the corpses. 11 of Bulmer saw these white fibrous clots between sixty-one to 80% of their corpses. It's just, it's amazing, right?
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: It's shocking. So one of the, uh, new phenomenons that the Yeah, go ahead.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It, it makes me wonder if we're seeing if their average is down this year from the previous year because there's less. People who are being embalmed who have these clots,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: because they were all embalmed the previous year. Uh, or majority of them were embalmed the previous year. [00:14:00]
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: That's true as well. That's a, that's a possibility. But like I said, the, that, that number though, one out of every five corpses still containing the clots at the end of 2023, to me, is alarming. Like I said, especially since most people are, most, most Americans are a couple years away from their last medical intervention, so that tells me, uh, in our first survey we kind of deduced that it might be possible that the white fibers, clots may take anywhere from six months to 18 months to grow to a point.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Where they cause a stroke or heart attack. And one of the reasons I say that is, is because most of the embalmers that I've talked to did not notice the white fibrous clots until the middle of twenty-twenty-one may, June, July timeframe. Whereas we know that the medical intervention rolled out pretty much in January of that year.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So if, and I say if the medical intervention is the cause of these white fibrous clots, and the embalmers didn't start seeing the clots showing up on their embalming table until. [00:15:00] Uh, the middle of 2021. That indicates to me that it may take, uh, six months at the earliest for these things to grow to a size where they stroke you out or give you a heart attack.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: But the fact that we're still seeing them two years later after people took their last medical interventions means that it may take them as long as maybe two years, you know, anywhere from like six to 18 to twenty-four months to build up to the point where they completely cut off circulation. Uh, cause a stroke or heart attack speculation on my part, but the data seems to support that.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So one of the other, uh, issues the bombers mentioned to me this year, Sam, was they saw a phenomenon called Microclotting in their corpses. They saw, they've been seeing this too since, uh, the, uh, 2021, but they don't describe it as micro clotting. Sam, they call it what looks like coffee grounds or dirty blood in the drainage coming off of the corpse as they're trying to put [00:16:00] the out to hide in and take the, uh, blood out of the corpse.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: They see what looks like coffee grounds or dirty blood and look at the percentages there, Sam. Of the 200 sixty-nine embalmers that responded to the survey, seventy-nine percent of them 212 of the embalmers are, saw this phenomenon in twenty-twenty-three.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So that's shocking, not good. Absolutely shocking.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Especially these people had these. These people had these micro-clots before they died. Um, and can you imagine seeing this patient in the clinic and they're having signs of, let's say a stroke or pain somewhere in their body and their D dimer is elevated, which shows evidence of clots. But now we can't find a clot anywhere in their body because they have micro-clots too small to see.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And like, just like you say, this could be just as dangerous as the white fibrous clots because the microclotting occurs at a capillary level. You know, it can block the exchange of oxygen at the lungs, and then the carrying of that oxygen to all your ma major organs of your body, you know, including your, your brain, your [00:17:00] eyes.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So it could, and it, like I said, it can be just as serious as the white fibrous clots. So then we asked him, the next natural question was, well, in what percentage of your corpses are you seeing this Microclotting phenomenon? And if you look at that note down there, embalmers have seen this in the past before there was even covid micro clotting, but was very rare.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I think one of the embalmers mentioned to me that he saw microclotting occasionally in corpses, that people that had heavy chemotherapy done of. Is twenty-five percent of the corpses in twenty-twenty-three had this phenomenon. So it's at least a quintupling of what, what, what has been before in the terms of microclotting.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: If you look to the left again, you see fifty-eight embalmers saw between twenty-one to 40% of their corpses. Another thirty-two embalmers saw the microclotting between forty-one to 60% of their corpses, 16 of the embalmers saw between sixty-one to 80% of their corpses. [00:18:00] So it's again, a serious thing.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So, uh, we asked last year the embalmers about grape jelly clots, and so we wanted to ask them the same question this year as well. And we asked what percentage of your corpses in 20 twenty-three contain the traditional grape jelly clots? Embalmers have been seeing grape jelly clots and what's called chicken fat clots forever.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Uh, they're very common and we, we embalmers, those are two types of clots embalmers saw prior to covid. The, uh, chicken fat clots by the chicken, fat clots are, uh, basically yellowish in color. They're much smaller and they tear very easily, so they're much different than these large white fibers clots that are tough, elastic, and, you know, hard to break.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So, but in terms of the grape jelly clots, as you can see there, the average this year in 2023 or this last year. And Balmers saw these type of clots in 40% of the corpses. So we asked them, [00:19:00] well, what did you see, uh, in terms of grape jelly clots prior to, uh, 2019? And you can see there the average was about 30%.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So it didn't go up a lot, but it's still significant, right? It went up from 30% of corpses prior to covid to 40% of corpses. Now at the end of 2023. So now we have, there's three ways. Like I said, we have white fibers, clots that they've never seen before that have happened. Started, you know, in the last three years they've got this microclotting phenomenon, which is quintupled since, uh, the years before Covid.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And now we have grape jelly clots as well, going up from 30% on average to 40% of corpses. So in fact, uh, Richard Hirschman, the embalmer from Alabama who was in the died suddenly film. Tells me, Hey Tom. It used to be that I would see normal blood in people about eighty-five percent of the time, and abnormal blood about 15% of the time, and my corpses before [00:20:00] Covid came along.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: But since the years of covid and it's, it's been a flip, I'm seeing about 15% of my corpses have normal blood and eighty-five percent of my corpses have abnormal blood. So it's, this is not a good situation, Sam.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Yeah, some of the embalmers also mentioned to me that there, uh, saw an increase, unfortunately in infant deaths, and that includes miscarriages, fetal devices, stillborns, and even SIDS cases, uh, in 20 twenty-three when compared to the years prior to the pandemic. We asked the embalmers about that. I guess the good news is, Sam, that the, the no bars longer, thank goodness most of the embalmers did not notice an increase in the infant deaths, but there were about 21% who did.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So then the next natural question that we asked them, and by the way, there might be an explanation for why that this is, uh, answer is the way it is. A lot of the embalmers have told me [00:21:00] that, um, there seems to be a lot more cremations of infants these days than before. So if there is any evidence of any kind of clotting or any unusual problems with the infant, that evidence of course is being destroyed if you're doing a cremation.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And, uh, I've also been told by the embalmers of many of the hospitals are, are, uh, uh, asking the parents now, uh, would you like us to dispose of the remains of the child? And so we'll take care of that for you. And a lot of parents are opting to do that. So of course, embalmers won't see those cases if the, if the hospital is disposing of the remains.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: But for the embalmers that are seeing this phenomenon, we ask them, well, what percentage increase have you seen an infant deaths compared to the years prior to Covid? As you can see there. For those that saw, it was an increase of twenty-five percent. If you take all the bar, if you do not include the blue bar, the long blue bar of one fifty-nine, but if you start the yellow bar and average those down, then you, you [00:22:00] see, you get a twenty-five percent increase in infant deaths in twenty-twenty-three compared to the pre-COVID years.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Only for those involved that saw an increase. So again, not a good thing.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: The last question we asked. Yeah, go ahead.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Do you study children? So not infants, not, uh, preterm, nothing like that, but just, um, you know, from age two to 18.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Well, that's a good question. You actually lead me right into the next segue. We also did not get a chance last year to ask the embalmers about age stratification.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So we put a question on there this year and, and this is this question we asked them, Hey, did you observe an increase in the number of clots of any type? There's grape jelly, white fibrous, or, um, the micro-clotting in the year 20 twenty-three compared to the years twenty-nineteen and prior. And we asked the embalmers to check all the age groups that apply here on this question so they could, they could [00:23:00] select multiple answers here.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And as you can see, um. The longest bars are at the older age groups, and that's not too surprising, right? You would expect somebody in the sixty-six to eighty-year-old group, for example, as plaque and cholesterol start to build up, start to have problems. But Sam, I am kind of disturbed at that thirty-six to fifty-year-old bar.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: You see that eighty-nine of the embalmers saw an increase in clotting for that particular age group. And what's interesting about that, Sam, is it dovetails very closely with a lot of the death and disability. Uh, insurance data that Edward Dowd's collecting, he saw an explosion starting in 2021 of death and disability in the 36 to 50-year-old age group.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So the data that I'm collecting from the embalmer seems to dovetail very closely with that, uh, information collected by Edward Dowd.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So, so that was pretty much it for the, uh, presentation there. So. [00:24:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's shocking because, you know, it's, it's so easy to distance yourself when we say things like corpse or we say bodies or we, but this is someone's loved one. And yeah, it's when, when you start putting in human terms like that, like we look at the numbers and we look at them objectively because we have to, because it's, it's too painful to look at them in the other way.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But when you start putting a human face on that, it's like, what the hell has happened?
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Yeah. And you know what, Sam, it's causing great psychological damage to the embalmers as well because they're seeing something horrific happening in their embalming room. And many of them, Sam, feel afraid to speak out about it.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: They don't wanna get their funeral home in trouble. They don't wanna lose their job. They see a lot of doctors, uh, that are standing up like yourself, who speak out against the medical intervention in any way, and. They'll get their licenses pulled or board certifications taken away from them. So they're scared.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: They don't want to talk. And here's, by the way, this is what they're seeing. This is a, an [00:25:00] example of the clots. This was given to me by Mr. Richard Hirschman from the Died suddenly movie. He pulled this outta one person. So th this is an example of the white fibrous clots that he's finding on in about 50% of his corpses.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Richard's seeing them in about 50% of his corpses, even though I said the average is about 20% now. Richard's still seeing them in about 50% of his corpses. So it's not a good situation. And what's, what's interesting about what I just said about the embalmers, uh, you know, suffering some psychological damage is I, I actually got some data, data, that's when I did this last survey that shows a, when's a little bit of a scandal going on, Sam?
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Um, like I said, this latest survey I ran from the 8th of December until the 8th of January, so I finished it up just about a month ago. We use SurveyMonkey as a tool. And what I did is I sent, just like I did last year, I sent the survey, uh, out using a two-pronged approach. I sent it to an a top-down approach to 50, [00:26:00] uh, national, regional and state funeral director associations all around the world.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Each of those with hundreds of members under them, right? Funeral directors and embalmers. And I asked those associations to pass the email with the link to the survey. You know, it's, they were easy. It was just, you click on the survey, you saw the 12 questions there. You know, we just asked the embalmers, what, what did you see?
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Uh, when did you see it, and how much did you see? Right. Basically non-controversial questions, but I. I also used a bottom-up approach. I also found out the email addresses for over 1700 funeral homes around the world, and I sent the the survey directly to them as well, just in case the funeral director associations were not cooperative, right?
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I wanted to use a two-prong approach. Well, after I sent out the survey to the world on the 8th of December, I checked my survey monkey collectors about five days later on the 13th of December. I only had about 14 responses so far. I said, oh no, this is terrible. I, I need to get more [00:27:00] responses. So I had a li, I have a list of the 30 U.S state funeral director associations that I sent the survey to.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I picked the top 30 US states by population and sent them the survey. So I called each of their organizations. I talked to either their president or secretary or somebody else in their office and I said, Hey, could you send out that survey your. Well, Sam, God bless the Pennsylvania Funeral Directors Association.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: They did exactly as I asked and I know that because the very next day I got up and checked my survey Monkey collectors and I had ninety-three responses, and they were all from one state, Pennsylvania. I then got up the next day and I had thirty-two more responses from embalmers and they were all from one state, Pennsylvania.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So in just two days I got a hundred twenty-five responses from embalmers in one US state. And it told me two things. It told me, first of all, embalmers, they wanna tell you what they're seeing in the embalming room If, [00:28:00] if they feel like they have their permission from their funeral home director or their state Funeral Director association.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: But it also told me something else, right? There were twenty-nine other state funeral director associations I sent that email to. They must not have forwarded it down to their embalmers. They must have suppressed it, hit the delete key and not forwarded it. So it tells me there's a huge suppression going on at the funeral Director Association level or at the funeral director level, not to want to take the survey.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And like I said, there shouldn't be any reason not to want to take it. I'm only asking you what did you see, when did you see it, and how much are you seeing? At no point in either the first survey I ran, nor the survey I that I just completed, did I ever mention the words covid or covid vaccine anywhere in the instructions or in the survey questions themselves?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, wow. And man, that is, that's shocking. It makes me wonder are some of these, um, these organizations, are they thinking, oh, is this some [00:29:00] conspiracy theory, even though you don't actually say covid or Covid shot? Um, are they concerned that they could be contributing to con some conspiracy, or is there a deeper reason that they're not doing that and they're being told to not speak about it?
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: You know, well, here's. Many of these, in fact, most of these funeral director association presidents are funeral directors themselves. You know, they usually elect one of their own as the president of their association. If you were a funeral director and you had mandated that all your employees, including your embalmer, take the medical intervention, would you wanna participate in a survey that might show that the medical intervention is linked to these white fibers, clots, and these micro-clotting and these other issues?
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: You might be setting yourself up for a lawsuit, especially if one of your employees got. Injured by the medical intervention. Right. Also, as I said earlier, uh, about 80% of Americans took the medical intervention back in 2021 according to the CDC. So there might be a little personal cognitive dissonance going on with the funeral directors [00:30:00] themselves.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: They may not wanna know the answer to the survey if they've taken the medical intervention themselves. Just a couple of things I'm thinking about now, and what's interesting is I did get a couple of, uh, responses. I got a response, for example, from the. Executive director of the British Columbia Funeral Directors Association and saying they were not gonna participate in the survey.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Well, he made the decision for the entire province of British Columbia Canada that they were not gonna participate in the survey, you know? Wow. I also sent a, uh, I got an email response back from the national, um, uh, association of Funeral Directors of the UK of United Kingdom. I sent the survey to about six or organizations in the uk.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: London had their own Funeral Director association. Uh, there was another one called the British Institute of Embalmers. And, but then they also have this national organization of, uh, funeral directors as well. They set back an email saying, we're not gonna participate in the [00:31:00] survey. We'll let the British Institute of Embalmers answer for us.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I had already sent an email to the British Institute of Embalmers. What would be the harm in the National Association of Funeral Directors, their main organization in the UK with hundreds of members? What would be the harm in sending out my survey to them and asking their embalmers to take it? You know, it's, it's just amazing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, yeah, it's, it's the same cognitive dissonance that I'm seeing amongst physicians who, who can't. Their brain won't allow them to see that they, they took it, they told others to take it, and that they could be responsible for harming themselves, their family and their patients.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Yeah. In a recent video I did with Dr.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: John Campbell of the uk, one of the questions he asked me is, well. How come if this is happening so much and these white fibrous clots and this micro clotting might be in so many people according to what the Involvers are finding, why isn't it showing up in doctor's offices and stuff when they're, when people are going in for checkups?[00:32:00]
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I think maybe people are coming into the, to the doctor's office with conditions based on, but then they're being misdiagnosed or they're being steered away from the medical intervention as the possible reason. What do you think
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: this person. Just personally, I've seen some patients with, uh, D-dimer levels incredibly high.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So D-dimer is, is a product that happens when you have clotting and breaking of clots incredibly high. And, you know, we do a, a CT, uh, of their chest to look at a pulmonary embolism, which is what you're typically see. Or we do, uh, an ultrasound of their legs to look for a clot. And we don't find anything.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We don't see anything.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Yeah. You know, some people ask me to say, Hey, if, if. So much excess mortality is going on. This is such a disastrous thing. How come I'm not seeing that in my personal life? And you know, we in the United States, we've seen excess mortality of 10% in the last three years ever since the medical interventions have come out.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Surprisingly, by the way, countries in Africa, for example, with very [00:33:00] little uptake on the medical intervention. Or having no problems at all with excess mortality. You know, they have like 10, 15% of uptake. So that should tell you something. But I tell people, you know, uh, 10% excess mortality is probably pretty subtle at the individual, individual level.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: 'cause it means that, you know, well at, at the, at the, at the large level, like I said, 10 per, we have a country of 300 million people. And about 3 million of us died every year before the, uh, before covid even came along. So 10% excess mortality over the last three years means 10% of 3 million people dying, which is 300,000 extra people dying a year in the, in America.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And that's a whopping number, right? But if you look at it from the individual level. 10% excess mortality to you and me and people around us means that, hey, instead of seeing 10 people die this year, I saw 11 people die this year. That's 10% excess mortality. So you can see on a, on an individual level, are you really gonna notice, well, 11 people dying [00:34:00] this year versus 10 dying last year.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Probably not, right? But when you take that and you aggregate it up to mass populations, then it becomes 300,000 extra Americans dying every year. That's what's going on here. People don't see it at the subtle, at the individual level, but it's massive at the large population level.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And then that's where you, it as a, let's say an employer, you have a tough time finding someone to work for you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, there's other reasons that they're not working, but if there's, if the pool of people to draw from is even smaller because it, there's not as many people in that, that pool. Yeah. It's harder to find, especially if they were skilled labor that worked in a particular sector that required this intervention.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Now, uh, last year when we, when we talked, you know, I was talking a lot about the, uh, the mRNA as, as the culprit. You were, are fairly convinced, uh, as well though that the lipid nanoparticles are uh, uh, very, very dangerous as well. Is your, do you still have that theory and have you changed it at all? [00:35:00] Um, because I, I, I agree with you.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I think it's both.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. I think the mRNA is, I, I. I come to believe that it's, it's probably half, maybe up to half before I used to think it was less than half. Um, but even that is being pretty generous. I think half or more is the, the lipid nanoparticle and Wow. And the reason I think it's so, so bad is because in the Pfizer documents that had redaction codes in them had redactions in them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The redaction code that was often used was Bravo four, which means that. If this information were expressed or shown, then that would inhibit the application of a state-of-the-Art U.S weapons system. And so right there, that tells me that that is the most dangerous part.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Well, that's, yeah. And like, and from Dr.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: John Campbell, of course we know that those lipid nano particle, they go everywhere. I saw the, uh. Lectures that was given by the late [00:36:00] Arne Burkhardt. I'm sure you've probably seen that as well, where he showed pathological slides of the spike protein from the me medical intervention found in the spleen, in the liver, in the heart, in the brain.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Testicles, ovaries, just everywhere. He even made a, he made a kind of a shocking comment during that lecture that he said, if I were a young, fertile woman, I would not marry a man who had taken the medical intervention if I wanted children. So it was shocking what he said.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That is shocking, and, and I hope that that doesn't play out.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, but I may have seen something that seems like that might be true clinically, and I pray that that's, wow, that's not the situation. Um, but yeah, it.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Sam, one of the things that motivated me to do this, uh, these two surveys is I have family members who've taken the medical intervention and I wanna know just how much they are in danger now, including my children.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I have children that are, uh, in their late teens, [00:37:00] uh, young twenties, and I, I, you know, I like to have grandchildren someday. I'm, you know, I don't, I don't wanna see them, uh, suffer from what, what they've done. They felt like they had to take it. They were going to the university. And the university was requiring it.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And rather than try to do a religious exemption to fight it, they said, dad, I don't wanna fight it. And you know, you know how kids are, they just think they can conquer the world, you know, it's nothing can hurt me. So they did the, they went the easy route and they took it not to, not to get into confrontation with their university.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And I, I'm worried sick that there's something, you know, something that's going to happen to them. Now, we have seen Matchmelling put out last year the. The whole Denmark study of the bad batch theory. I don't, you've probably seen the chart with the, the blue, the green, and the yellow line where the blue batches were.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Uh, I think there was only about, they comprised about 5% of the total batches, but they were responsible for about 80% of the severe adverse events. [00:38:00] And then there was a green line, which were, uh, batches that responsible for a moderate amount of, of, uh, uh. Severe events. And then there was almost a flat line that almost looked like it was placebo 'cause they were batches that had almost zero, uh, side effects associated with them.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Now, max said, uh, in a later video that he actually didn't have all that information processed by that time, and that that line is actually elevated slightly off the, off the, uh, flat. So those, even those yellow batches did create some, uh, adverse events as well. But it's, uh, but much, much less than the blue batches.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So that tells me that with sloppiness in the way these things were manufactured, or there's something about the, either in the distribution of them, the transportation, the storage, remember they were supposed to be stored in very cold temperatures, something along the way broke down, right. And caused an inconsistency in the, uh, in the product.[00:39:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And, and for your family, for other people out there that have family or even themselves out there listening, uh, try and go to F-L-C-C-C their website and, and search for a provider near you to see if they can help you, uh, work through these, these injuries that you've sustained from the Covid vaccine if you've received an injury from it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And even if you haven't, it might be. Worth doing some of the supplements that they suggest to help get rid of this spike protein and, and potentially get rid of some of the lipid nanoparticle. Um, unfortunately there's not, we don't know enough about this, this field because we don't know what the long-term outcome's gonna be.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I know it's, and that's why at the end of all my presentations I call for moratorium on this technology. I think the whole mRNA, lipid, nanoparticle delivery system technology. We need to have a moratorium on it until we do know more about it because as you know, Sam Big Pharma plans on unleashing a whole bunch of shots next year using this mRNA lipid nanoparticle technology.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: They've got it [00:40:00] slated for the flu shot. The Shingles shot. The RSV shot. Moderna's got 40 of these in the pipeline right now. Unleash on the world in the next few years. Yeah. And we're, you know, we're talking about shots that are going not into just hundreds of millions of arms, but actually billions of arms.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So, you know, five, five and a half billion with a B, People on this planet have taken at least one of these, uh, medical interventions. So this is, uh, it's not a good thing and I think we need to. Say, whoa, let's this stop, you know, and take a look. And what's unfortunate, Sam, is last year when I had the USA portion of my survey done on the, on the results last year, I sent them to the FDA.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: They had a meeting of their vaccine and related Biological products, Advisory committee on the twenty-sixth of January of last year. I actually asked to speak at that meeting. They had an hour set aside for oral presentations, and they gave 20 speakers three minutes apiece to speak. I, uh, I applied, but there was a lottery into too many speakers and I wasn't selected, but I did [00:41:00] submit my information in written format and then I got a tracking number, but they never contacted me, Sam, throughout the entire year.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I just, it's just a shame, the silence we've gotten from the CDC and the FDA.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The advice I would give to everyone listening to this is, yeah, you may distrust the, the, the covid shot itself, and, and you may not have lost trust in all of medicine because you're an optimist and you may not have lost trust in, let's say the shingles shot, the flu vaccine, all these.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But I would just say. Think about this for a moment. How many people got in the line to get the flu shot and ended up getting the covid shot? How many changes are we seeing in like, I know the Shingrix, for instance, has a lipid nanoparticle in it. Um, consider if, if the government won't put a moratorium on it, enact one for yourself and for your children, and tell them this is not something to do.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You can always go back and get this, but you can't ever take it out. [00:42:00]
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: That's exactly what I tell my friends and family as well. You are the last line of defense, the citizen. Just because it's being pushed by the CDC, the FDA, big Pharma, and big media, the tv, you know, that doesn't mean you have to take it.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And I advise my family and friends not to.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I think that's, that's good advice. I haven't had a flu shot in probably four years now. And I never had the flu since then. That's interesting.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Well, it, it's made us lose trust in the whole system because we realized how sloppy the testing was and the testing, the results they did give us, and they tried to hide from us are not, the results don't look good, do they?
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So they, they tried to hide a lot of data from us that, uh, that showed some, some fairly shocking, uh, adverse events. And, you know, we see what it looks like in VAERS, which we know is way under-reported all the, the, uh, damaging side effects in VAs. So we, we think that's, uh, maybe under-reported by a factor of twenty-six.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So, you know, it's, yeah, it's staggering. The, the, some of the estimates are, are out there by Dennis [00:43:00] Rancourt and, and, and others that maybe as many as 17 million people around the planet are, have died over the last three years since the medical intervention came out that was caused by the medical intervention.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: There are some people that say that VAERS is controversial, which I don't believe it is. I believe it's underreporting, but the DMED data, the defense military Epidemiology database, you know, I helped blow the whistle on that, and then Ted Macy helped blow the whistle on that years later, after they allegedly had a glitch and fix the system, and it's still horrendous.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Then the increase in damage and destruction done to the military troops in a closed system. And it, it is a very accurate number. Even after they fixed a glitch, a quoted glitch and the numbers are still awful.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Yeah, God bless you and Teresa Long and Pete Chambers and Tom Renz for bringing that to the attention of, uh, Senator Johnson.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Way back at the Defeat. The Mandates, uh, back in January of [00:44:00] twenty-Twenty-two. That was stellar work by you folks. It just shows, like I say, that our military has really been decimated and, and you, you know, you're talking about the, some of the fittest people, right? The pilots, uh, in the Air Force, the Navy SEALs, the Green Beret.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: These, these are the cream of the crop of our services, and they're the ones who are usually most concerned about what's going in their body. They're very particular about what they eat. About how they train their super athletes, and those are some of the ones that have sustained some of the worst damage.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: You know, we have, I know, you know, a lot of pilots have been grounded and had their careers destroyed, and it's, it's such a sad thing because they, you know, not just their health, but you know, the Air Force poured and, and the military poured millions and millions of dollars into the training of these people, and then they wind up grounded and they can no longer fly and do and do the things they wanted to do.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, Tom, is there anything else you wanna add in? This has been, this has been a heavy episode and it's, it's weighing on me. [00:45:00] I'm not too talkative today and I apologize for that.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Yeah, no, I, and, and you know, Sam, I, I understand because I know it's hitting close to home for you because you and I have a love for these military men and women, you know, they went into the service with a good heart wanting to serve their country.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: The last thing they wanted to do is be, is sign up to be a Guinea pig for a mandated shot. From a tyrant that, uh, you know, was, it was unethical in the first place. So, and then they were lied to. We were told something was safe and effective when it was not, and it's just been a disaster. And, um, I'm trying to get the word out to about, just, just this one side effect of these white fibers, clots.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Remember, there's also other side effects going on, turbo cancers, miscarriages, uh, neurological damage, you know, myocarditis. It's just, it's a never-ending, uh, sea of, of, of death and destruction. It's unfortunate. It is.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Do you know anybody who's done any, or if anybody has done [00:46:00] any analysis of those white fibers, clots to see what they could be made out of?
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Yeah. Richard Hirschman. He has collected dozens of vials just like the one I showed the audience, and he has sent those to laboratories all over the world for analysis. Um, um. Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, did an analysis very early on, uh, showing the chemical composition of the clots. And you know, not surprisingly, very little, uh, iron, magnesium or uh, potassium was found in them, which are in high amounts in blood.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So he is, we know it's not blood coagulating or else, you know, it would look red, but, uh, but you know, they did find some other things that were in high amounts, which was kind of weird, like tin. They found, uh, uh, uh, and I think they found high amounts of phosphorus, if I'm not mistaken, and some other metals in there as well.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So that's unusual, right? Dr. Ryan Cole, uh, Richard sent, uh, samples of the clots to him as well. He's looked at, he's the famous pathologist from Idaho [00:47:00] Dr. Ryan Cole. He's looked at 'em under a microscope and, uh, he's determined that they're, uh, looks like they're made of, um, fi fibrin. You know, our, our body's half fibrinogen.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Then it's in a liquid state, and then it converts into fibrin when, uh, there's damage done to the interior of the blood vessels and, and it's white, fibrin's white, and then platelets are found in there as well. Platelets are colorless. And then this amyloid A-M-Y-L-O-I-D or amyloid-like material. And there's some theories about how that's being formed.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Sam. One of the ones is a paper came outta Cambridge a few months ago talking about a process called Frame Shifting. I don't know if you've read that paper or not. Basically, frame shifting is a situation where the modified RNA from the modified RNA from the uh, medical intervention I. Uh, is being misread about 10% of the time by our ribosomes in our cells.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And once the lipid nanoparticle brings the mRNA like a Trojan horse [00:48:00] inside your cell, and, and then that mRNA start modified RNA starts to take over the machinery of your cell. We think that the pseudo-uridine that's on the, uh, modified RNA code is, uh, causing a skipping of the ribosomes reading. The RNA strand as it's as it's, uh, reading the strand to produce proteins.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And about 90% of the time we think it's it, according to this paper, this Cambridge paper. That it's producing the correct spike protein, which is not good in of itself because the spike protein's got problems. But about 10% of the time it's producing what's called aberrant or nonsense proteins. It could be of any length.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And we think that that may be contributing to this white amyloid-like material that's building up just one of the theories that's out there. So, wow, scientists are still looking at it all around the world. They're perplexed and they wanna know how this stuff is forming. And by the way, you know, the embalmers are insistent.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: That it's forming pre-death. They say that it can perform after death [00:49:00] as well, they believe, but the reason they say it's perform pre-death, Sam, is because you're picking up bodies that are only an hour or two old, and they've not been refrigerated yet. Persons just deceased, and they're still finding them riddled with these clots that they say there's no way that that clot could have formed in just the hour or two since the person passed.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: So in fact, there's a, uh. One of the funeral home directors that's in the died suddenly movie, she's also an embalmer. So some of the, like I said, they're in a dual role. They, they own the funeral home and they are the funeral director and they're also the embalmer. She's in that unique position so she can interact with the, the family of the deceased.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And every time that she finds the whitefiber cloths Sam, she'll go and she'll ask the family, Hey, did your uh, loved one take the medical intervention? And she says, 100% of the time, Sam. Without fail. The answer is yes. I know that's just anecdotal information, but it's, it's, it's shocking. Right. [00:50:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, Tom, it's been great having you on.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Again, this is, this is a, it's always a heavy conversation with you, and I wish, uh, we could have met on better terms, but I'm so thankful that, um, through this, this disaster that's hitting the world, that people like you and I have been able to, um, build friendships and, and I am truly grateful for the work that you're doing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, everybody needs to understand that you may not be a doctor, you may not be a scientist. You do what you can in your area and that will help the rest of the world.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Amen to that, Sam, and right back at you. You're a hero of mine. I really admire you. 'cause it took a lot of guts to do what you did. I, I was at the end of my career as a defense contractor, so I still have my retired Air Force major's pay.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I had, I was one year away from getting social security early. My wife is 10 years younger and still works. I. So I could tell the Air Force when I was given the mandate that I was not gonna take the jab, and I got fired from my 100 sixty-five thousand [00:51:00] dollars a year job, which I would've liked to have kept.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: I loved my job. It was fun. I was working in the F-sixteen SPO. We were upgrading jets for Singapore and South Korea. I got to travel to those countries, traveled to Lockheeds. A facility at Fort Worth, Texas oversee the work that was being done there to modify test jets for those countries. So I would, I loved my job, but nothing's more important than your health.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: And I knew that once something got injected in my body, it could never be taken out again. So I made my stand and I'm, I'm so glad that people like you have made a stand too. God bless you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, I'm just, I'm very blessed to be standing shoulder-to-shoulder, uh, with men like you and, and, and many women out there also.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I'm just very thankful that I'm not standing alone.
ret MAJ Tom Haviland: Thanks for having me, and God bless you. Thank you.[00:52:00]
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121. Chewing the Fat with Tomer Pappe
Today I chew the fat with Certified Nutritionist Tomer Pappe. He has had Type 1 Diabetes since he was 11years old. Please check out his website at https://tomerpappe.com/
Please enjoy. Like, follow, and share. Thank you.
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121. Tomer Pappe
===
Tomer Pappe: [00:00:00] I basically invite everybody and also all of your listeners, if they're still considering, just give it a, give it a shot. You know, take one month, take, start with two weeks and continue to one month, and then look how, how amazing you feel, and then continue. It doesn't have to be so strict, but what I love about carnivore, and I use it a lot of times, especially with, uh, you know, obesity and things that need urgent care.
Tomer Pappe: So it's like, it's like a urgent, it's first line treatment, carnivore, and then. What, what I really love about it, it's that it's a elimination diet. Everybody knows that. It's like the best way to see if you're susceptible to anything.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? I. This dinner is from River Bend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised in the USA, it's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully [00:01:00] vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow that gives birth to the calf that's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare. What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell Bundles, that have rib eyes and other meat in it.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed, I've been wearing this T-shirt for a few episodes, now I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.[00:02:00]
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours for Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you'll be encouraged to question everything
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: 6 cents a month with Ty, Charles Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr. Anna, Frank, Brian Shell and Brantley. Uh, Kevin Alanos and Pat and Bev had made a $10 level. The refi not burned at $5. With Linda Emmy, Joe PJ, Rebecca. Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn Ken, [00:03:00] Rick Mary. And Amanda Addison Mulders made a $3 level.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We have Frank at a dollar 50 a month, and courage is Contagious at $1 a month. With Jay, Spesnasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, and Caleb. And just a quick reminder, please check out MyCleanBeef.com slash After hours. That's MyCleanBeef.com slash After hours for better than Grass-Fed grass-finished beef. I wanna introduce my next guest.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Tomer Pep. He is a, uh, registered dietitian. He also suffers with, well, he doesn't really suffer with it so much anymore. He's, but he has the diagnosis of type-one diabetes. Tomer great for you to come on. Tell us, tell
Tomer Pappe: us how you've been. Yeah. Thank you very much, Sam. I'm happy to be here. It's Papé, the family name, but I know it's not the easiest one for, uh, in the U.S in America.
Tomer Pappe: Sorry, Papé. Yeah, but tell us what you've learned. Yeah, I'm good, man.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: When you first discovered carnivore and when you started doing it, and [00:04:00] the changes you've seen in your diagnosis of Type one diabetes.
Tomer Pappe: Basically, I'm a type one diabetic since the age of 11, and today I am nearly thirty-three years old.
Tomer Pappe: And when I started with that, so I was really going through the official guidelines. I, I've been told to eat everything I want not to think about what I eat, just to remember to press on the insulin pump. It was back then to press the right numbers and I. Basically what happens that your numbers and your, uh, blood glucose numbers, they can get from 40 to 400 and it's a whole rollercoaster.
Tomer Pappe: And when you get to these points, you also feel really exerted and you, you exhausted also and your muscles and everything and your brain fog and every other symptom is, um. Really constant with this rollercoaster of blood glucose. And eventually when I got to diabetes ketoacidosis, which which almost cost me in my life, basically, I found that, uh, low [00:05:00] carbohydrate diets.
Tomer Pappe: Uh, can really gain back the control over this, uh, incredible phenomenon that is incredible in a, sometimes in a bad way that people always told me that it's uncontrollable. So that's what gave me the control. And I was also, uh, experi, experimenting with a lot of carnivore diet, of course, and also the low carb diet.
Tomer Pappe: And if some of your listeners, or you may be familiar with. Dr. Richard K. Bernstein, which he basically the father of diabetes. And today he's 90 years old with type one diabetes and he still, um, live and he still practice his medicine in New York, next to New York. In his clinic, still to this day is celebrating 90.
Tomer Pappe: And he given that, uh, basically, uh, to the fact that he, he'd been uh, low carb, low carb for nearly 70 years. So, uh, that's what led me to all of that journey [00:06:00] and that's also what led me to study nutrition, which I'm now certified nutritionist to. Pass that knowledge to any diabetic and anyone in the world actually, that the significant effect that food has on any aspect of my life.
Tomer Pappe: You know, it affected my, uh, emotions, my mood, my relationship with people, with the people I love, with my family. They noticed the change. They noticed that I'm much more concentrated. I'm much more sharp. I can sleep less and walk for 12, 14 hours a day and even to walk out in the time. And, uh, I got it completely under control, and my blood glucose is now for almost eight years, is completely predictable, which that that is the real gift of this diet.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So what made you discover this? Like what, what was the, the thing when you're like, and, and what was the feeling in your mind when you first thought. Wait, I, I don't need to eat any carbs. Like I've been lied to my whole life. They told me, you know, the bottom of the pyramid, I don't know if y'all have the food pyramid over there, but the bottom of the food pyramids, all grains [00:07:00] and it's all just garbage and the whole pyramids pretty much garbage.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Even the My plate is, is all garbage. When did you come to that realization?
Tomer Pappe: Yeah, absolutely. It's like, as they, everybody love to say today, you know, it's like, uh, I, I got into this rabbit hole basically. And, um, since then it just, uh, it been truth, truth all the time. Uh, one after the other, like one discovery after the other.
Tomer Pappe: But it all began when I first, I was in the hospital with the diabetes ketosis, which. This is, uh, it's a quite common co uh, complication of diabetes, but it is not a joke. It's like you can really lose your life in that co complication, which. The ketones are produce in a significant high numbers. It's not the ketogenic diet.
Tomer Pappe: It has nothing to do with that. It's a completely different mechanism that it's, uh, already toxic because the high level of ketones in your blood and the body in a desperate attempt trying to give yourself a fuel instead of the [00:08:00] carbohydrates that get stuck outside of the cells because there's no insulin to get them in.
Tomer Pappe: Basically, that's the meaning of that. And then I dived into a lot of nutrition books, a lot of nutrition. Uh, science, many articles, many new research. That I just, it blew my mind really that, you know, the research today is so, uh, ahead of his really, it's, it's somewhere in the future and the medical doctors and many of the medical practices really far, far in the century ago, uh, you can say.
Tomer Pappe: And that really blew, it blew my mind. And since then I got into the rabbit hole and I never got out. And really, it's all the time you get new discoveries and the sense is really amazing today. So I began with the famous Doctor Bernstein book with, in my eyes, is like a legend in diabetes world, but basically in the local world, it's not only diabetes, you know the things they talk about.
Tomer Pappe: It's true to everyone. All of your listeners, if they want to improve their lives, if they want to get. More energy, [00:09:00] more, uh, more even strengths in the muscle. Everything. Low carb is really, it's true to everyone today, which we are in a world that is saturated with carbohydrates basically, and they're getting more and more processed.
Tomer Pappe: But I started with that, and then I dived into it and I got to many, uh, sort of mentors of mind. They were like, uh, on Instagram or on YouTube, you know, like, um, probably you, you are familiar with them. It's, uh, Sean Baker was in the beginning of. Of all of that when, nine years ago and since then, I got to talk with him.
Tomer Pappe: He got to interview me, and I interviewed him. And, um, some, some of these names just, they opened my mind. But when I started in experimenting, I just, I never stopped. And it's a path that even though you have a lot of mentors and a lot of, uh, influencer and YouTubers and Instagramers, you still have to walk alone in that path.
Tomer Pappe: I'm sure you know it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, it was, uh, ßhawn Baker was very influential when I started along with um, uh, Jordan Peterson. And so I was diagnosed with [00:10:00] idiopathic hypersomulants and I stumbled across someone saying, oh, it helped. Narcolepsy has helped with their Narc, with their, or, uh, low carb has helped with their Narcolepsy.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then I stumbled across Jordan Peterson talking about his daughter having, um, Idiopathic Hypersomulants, which is even more rare than Narcolepsy and how it made her symptoms go away. And then I stumbled across Dr. Baker, Sean Baker, and just listening to him talk on Joe Rogan the first time was like.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is life-changing? How is medicine not taught any of this? How can we only have one hour of nutrition when we can change lives by getting rid of pain, getting rid of diabetes, getting rid of rheumatoid arthritis? I mean, just all these things can be cured if we eat the right thing.
Tomer Pappe: Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And I, yeah, Sean, Dr.
Tomer Pappe: Shawn Baker, he wasn't a Joe Rogan and it got really public and everybody was talking about the. The, this big guy that also workouts also build muscle and also go, uh, really like carnivore and low carb. It was like [00:11:00] really, um, out there. But even before that, you know, Dr. Bernstein was doing it since the seventies basically of the past century.
Tomer Pappe: And, and its ancient wisdom I. That's what really amazed me. That type one diabetes, the first documented case is actually in ancient Egypt 3000 years ago. And there is speculation also that it goes back to the, to the cave era, which we were in caves, and then it was like a death sentence. And when insulin invented it, it gave you like the, the notion that you can do everything and eat everything, but it's only a, a plaster on the.
Tomer Pappe: On the big picture that it actually, each and every one of us, we need lower amounts of insulin. It doesn't matter if you inject it or not. And when I discovered basically the, the power of being educated about food and about carbohydrates and how it affects everything, my blood sugar and my mood and everything.
Tomer Pappe: So I became really an expert. And then I saw that it's a, it's a way that you can also teach others really. And [00:12:00] that's what really led me to become clinical nutritionist. And you said. That you study medicine and you go through only one hour maybe of nutrition. So I know that, and in my country it's the same.
Tomer Pappe: And I work today a lot with the us. I have, uh, patients also in Europe and many other places rather than Israel. And we walk online and when, when we see that, basically it's everywhere. It's the same. The medical doctors, they. You know, they treat the symptoms, they don't treat the root cause. We know it already.
Tomer Pappe: Uh, quite, uh, from the people we follow. And we know also that even I, as a nutritionist, I learned three years of, uh, nutrition and a lot of macronutrients, micronutrients, a lot of nutrients, and. The, the biology is amazing, but still, when you get to the point that, uh, they have to tell you, okay, what he will tell your patient.
Tomer Pappe: Now, a patient will come to you with type one diabetes, with, uh, skin issues with like Michaela, Peterson like you. So what will you tell these patients? So still, it [00:13:00] goes back to the normal narrative of just, uh, eat whole grains. Uh, try to eat a balanced diet, a balanced meal, you know, it's all the same records go back over, over and over again.
Tomer Pappe: And it's, of course, it's false.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And you know, I may even get ridiculed by my fellow physicians. Oh, well, yeah. I've seen people get better. I've seen people lose weight with, you know, veganism. It's, but it's not about losing weight. I mean, that is a byproduct of it. That is a symptom of being metabolically unhealthy is, is being overweight.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But you also have other symptoms like. Diabetes. Another symptom like blood pressure problems and type one, type two diabetes, not type one obviously. Um, these are symptoms of the underlying cause of being metabolically unhealthy. And if we can get to those root causes, then we don't have to give medications that go against the biology of the body.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We can treat the root cause.
Tomer Pappe: Absolutely. Absolutely. And there is a lot in nutrition world and nutrition science is full of, uh, you know, biased, uh, here and there. Like each side will choose and each, each side [00:14:00] will show you the, I have this new study, I have this like, it's like it's becoming like, um, it's not really the meaning of science.
Tomer Pappe: The meaning of science is actually always to que to question and not to go by. Look, I have this one paper here that I proved you wrong. It's more. As you say, we need to get to the root cause of basically of all of our modern life, like what got us here. And of course, when a person will go vegan or even, even if you will go fruitarian, sometimes it's the fact that you're just limiting your food consumption will make you feel better.
Tomer Pappe: Because today we are, we are saturated with processed carbohydrates, as we said, processed food, and it's, it's all, it's, we get, uh, full of that. So of course when we restrict a bit, doesn't matter in what approach, we'll feel better, but. The real question is what will last for many years now, you know, we are a generation that is more like, uh, we want here and now, but the, we need to see the big picture.
Tomer Pappe: It's not like I became a vegan two months and look, I feel amazing. I, you know, like this movie, the Game Changers, it's, it's [00:15:00] not about that. It's more like, uh, we should look at the long term of each, uh, nutrition and, and that's what's really interesting and it gets even more interesting when you put. The aspect of our evolution, each, each and every one of us.
Tomer Pappe: Uh, for, I'm, for, for example, my origins, my great ancestors, they were somewhere in Europe. You can, uh, you can assume that as I know from my own family history, so it'll make sense. They will, that they will fed more with a chicken, maybe some. They had some milk, they had some, uh, probably a lot of eggs. I assume that.
Tomer Pappe: Okay. And when I see this evolutionary context, I can't really now become, you know, uh, to go live by the beach and to, to eat only fish all day. Or, uh, some people forget the evolutionary con context. And it's very important because we see now that people. Become carnivore and they feel amazing, but they get iron overload For some example that I see it a lot with my patients and I, I have some experience with that in lab results and [00:16:00] many other factors.
Tomer Pappe: And basically we, we need also to remember that, you know, so it's not only the, there is one that for, for all, it's um, it's evolution. It's to know your body, know biology, and the rest is, uh, you can try.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, um. When you started controlling your diabetes. Uh, and I, and I say it that way because you know you have type one and I've seen type one diabetics also get this.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's, I don't know if it's a real thing, if it's really called like type 1.5, 'cause there is a type 1.5. I think it's different. Um, but this is where your type one, but now insulin resistant type one. And so instead of being what type ones are typically thin, uh, body habitus. Now you. Now they become obese because they've made themselves insulin resistant because they just eat whatever they want and they just inject more insulin.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I've actually heard some patients say, yeah, my, my endocrinologist said, just put more insulin in. If I eat a piece of cake. It's like, oh my goodness, that, that's the wrong [00:17:00] answer. I,
Tomer Pappe: yeah, absolutely. You know, I've been there when, in the times before I changed my diet, I was, I'm diabetic now, type one diabetic for nearly.
Tomer Pappe: 24 years and for the first 15 years or 16 years, I was walking around eating whatever I want. I could eat cakes, I could eat desserts, I could eat a lot of pasta. It, it didn't care to me whatsoever, and I just injected the. The insulin that I take, which is basically more or less the same for our body for as a pancreas, insulin as a produced insulin in the body.
Tomer Pappe: And what I saw that, yeah, you can get much if you know higher blood glucose, uh, it's. It leads to, to even higher blood glucose than, than to start from, and it's like a vicious cycle. And if you, I, you know, if you saw me before I changed my diet, you, you wouldn't say that I look like a sick person. I have to be honest with you.
Tomer Pappe: It's not, I wasn't obese, you wouldn't see that on me. But I can tell you very clearly now that I have, I had [00:18:00] metabolic syndrome if, you know, I used, um. Let's say 90, around 90 units of insulin a day. And today I use around 20 even less. So you can imagine what, what was the demand of insulin of my body and how insulin resistant I was just, it's really easy to track that in type one diabetes, and we see it a lot today.
Tomer Pappe: I see it a lot with patients that, that's really tragic today. It's a human tragedy basically, that you can have, as you said, double diabetes, they call it today. You can be type one and gain more and more weight because of the insulin that you inject. And for like anybody else, you know, like the modern world, uh, the modern, the modern world, uh, sickness, you can get also sick from the food you eat.
Tomer Pappe: And it's even harder with type one to track exactly and to inject correctly because it's, you need to be really a rocket scientist in order to do that. So it's, it's even easier to get to be double diabetic when you're type one because it's a slippery slope. And I see it a lot today. And it's, of course, it's a result of the [00:19:00] modern world we live in.
Tomer Pappe: But if you, if we go back a bit, it's, it's kind of, uh, crazy. I think the modern nature is probably laughing somewhere about that, that actually autoimmune disease shouldn't even occur in the first place. You know, it's a. When you walk against nature, uh, and you'll get a far from nature, so you get autoimmune diseases.
Tomer Pappe: Some people will call it the body attacks itself. Some people call it in. Otherwise, uh, some people will say it, it's a whole family of diseases that science doesn't know why they come from, doesn't matter, but. Basically you get that when you get far from nature, it's either when you give synthetic breast milk to a baby, you can uh, you can have lack of vitamin D, people that, uh, today, modern world, we sit around the computer all day.
Tomer Pappe: So you get the autoimmune disease, you get type one diabetes. We invented, we invented insulin to treat it. And then, uh, people today, they get type two diabetes. On top of their type one diabetes. So that's really like, uh, it's insane. And for me, I [00:20:00] want to, to minimize my problems in life. So basically that's what carnivore diet and low-carb diets of any kind got me to it.
Tomer Pappe: It doesn't have to be pure carnivore. We can talk about that. But when I really limited my carbohydrates, the magic happened and I saw that every day My. Blood glucose become really predictable. It get, it gets really easy and you only need to match the doses of insulin, which that's pretty easy. Any, any child can do it.
Tomer Pappe: And then you see, wow, it's amazing. I check my blood glucose. It's 80 milligrams per deciliter now, two hours later I check it's ninety-five, two hours later it's seventy-eight. And that's, that's the magic really for uncontrollable disease that used to be considered at least.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So how do you, how do you start educating patients on carnivore?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What are some of the things that you, you say to try and get people on board? I mean, your story is very compelling, but what, what other things do you to teach people that like, hey, this is, this is the way, the only way really to, to have absolute control over [00:21:00] this as you should.
Tomer Pappe: Uh, you know, all the time I see when I meet a new patient, I see him as myself like 10 years ago.
Tomer Pappe: That's what I'm trying to do. So I basically invite everybody and also all of your listeners, if they're still considering, just give it a, give it a shot. You know, take one month, take, start with two weeks and continue to one month, and then look how we. How amazing you feel and then continue. It doesn't have to be so strict, but what I love about carnivore, and I use it a lot of times, especially with, um, you know, obesity and things that need urgent care.
Tomer Pappe: So it's like, it's like a urgent, it's first line treatment, carnivore, and then what, what I really love about it, it's that it's a elimination diet. Everybody knows that. It's like the best way to see if you're susceptible to anything. So we try that. And then the, the best thing, especially for obese people and the people with that have excess problems, not, it's not problems of, uh, lack of anything.
Tomer Pappe: It's more like [00:22:00] excess issues. So for them, they, they can see, they can experiment themselves, and that's the best thing. So if, if a person is really down to the process, I will give him, that's what I will give him. I will give him the elimination. Uh, path and I will tell him, okay, start really with the list that you can start with a good stack that will make you satiated for many, many hours throughout the day.
Tomer Pappe: And then when you feel amazing, maybe you can add some nuts, maybe you can add a bit. I'm, I'm, I don't really, uh, demonize any food group unless it's really processed. So that's basically the idea. And then. E each patient is different. You know, we, we all different. Each one is a universe as they say. So I try to walk with the person.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I think that's a great approach. I've, I've kind of started a stepwise approach that, you know, first if you, if all you can do is get rid of the seed and, um, seed oils, the, the processed oils and all the processed food, if that's all you can do, then do that and you'll see improvement. It won't be as profound as [00:23:00] if you jump into like beef only carnivore, but you'll, you'll start to have some improvements in your metabolic disease, in your pain, in all these different issues.
Tomer Pappe: True. And when you check that, when you look at that, really you can divide foods to the, the one that they will always be toxic. So as you said, it's a, it can, it's seed oils, you can add their processed carbohydrates. You can add basically anything that come in, you know, in a, in a box or in a nylon, uh, nylon wrapping.
Tomer Pappe: It's a, it's always bad unless it's a, the butcher gave you that in a box or something like that, you know. But, uh, if it's from a factory, so usually, yeah, we can tell. There, there is the things that will be true to anyone. You will not find any expert un unless he gets money from the company to advocate for Coca-Cola, you know, drink, Coca-Cola.
Tomer Pappe: It's like there is some stuff that you, anyone can agree. And then when you start to eliminate that and eliminate seed oils, processed carbohydrates, you can eliminate the sweet, all the sweet drinks that we say, all the sodas, you know, like [00:24:00] the sweet sodas. So, uh, when you, when you get down that path, you already done.
Tomer Pappe: A lot, like 60%, uh, the path to towards your own new body, the new health that you will have.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Exactly. I think that's, that's a great point.
Tomer Pappe: Yeah, definitely. And you know, it's a, it's important that people like you doctors, and. Other people. The, that's the really the, I think the power of today's world. You get educated from mentors.
Tomer Pappe: I get educated from mentors and we could choose our path and now we can get from inside the system, we can change it and we can, I. Even if you will have a clinic, it doesn't matter what what you will really do, but you can affect people in a way that in the past, it was in the past maybe we, you know, like decades and decades and hundreds, hundreds of years ago, maybe there wasn't even processed food.
Tomer Pappe: So no one really had to be educated because it was natural. But I mean, in the past, like, you know, our parents generation, our grandparents generation, they could, they [00:25:00] didn't have access to that information. And today. We have it, we have too much information. We just need to know how to pick it and how to be really well informed and to know how to read science and to just to have a clear mind and a good, good instinct, you know?
Tomer Pappe: And then we can affect people. That's really, that's what matters in the end of the day. And it doesn't matter if it's your family, the four people in your clinic, 4,000 people in your clinic, uh, international, you know, stages or 1 million followers on Instagram. Really? Well, anything matters and we change it from the inside.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And I noticed while when people learn about carnivore and they try it for a month and then they end up eventually continuing it for much longer than the month, they become a, they sell it, right? Because they, their life is so much better. They're like, wow, my, the pain in my hands that I've had for years is gone now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You know, I don't have that back pain. I, my depression is better, my anxiety is better. It's just, it, it's not a one, it's not snake oil. It's not a one fix for everyone, but it. It almost is because [00:26:00] it's, if everyone has basically the same machinery that we're walking around in, we have to put the right fuel in, and it's so easy to put the wrong fuel in, and that causes everything to get jammed up, if you will.
Tomer Pappe: Yeah, it's, and, uh, you know, Sam, it's funny that you say it because here, I'm, I'm already active for. More than a decade as a personal trainer and al almost a decade in this nutrition field. And then I became clinical nutritionist. And what I had a lot of conversations in Hebrew with, uh, other, uh, Israeli influencers.
Tomer Pappe: And we talked about it a lot. We, we called it in Hebrew, the, it's like the Messiah feeling, you know, that. When you find a new diet and you have this feeling, it's like you, you're telling yourself, wow, it's, it's amazing. Like, like how no one ever told me about it. Like, it's, it's crazy. It's insane. What, what, what I'm going through.
Tomer Pappe: Like, I'm suddenly, I'm clear in my mind, I'm, I'm happier. I can be more tolerant. You know, my, my thoughts are clear. Everything is clear. Everything is, it's wow. It's like I'm, I'm becoming like a aircraft, you know, my, my body's like, [00:27:00] it's insane. And then you, you have the notion that you have to shout it from the mountain.
Tomer Pappe: You know? You have to tell everybody. Because it, it's also come from a pure place that you really want to help the people you love. You want to. To help your inner circle and to show them this way. The same, because it's amazing. You know, it's, you don't need, you don't pay for anything. You don't need any medication.
Tomer Pappe: It just, you change what you eat, you change your entire life. It's, it's insane. And, and then it's really common that in the first year, the first two years, you get to talk to people. You talk to the people you love, to your girlfriend, to your friends, and you try to convince them. And then there is another phase of this change that you see that people usually, they, they don't want to change if it's not urgent.
Tomer Pappe: And it's they, they won't do it unless. Either the doctor will tell him, okay, it's now or never, or they will get to themselves to like the rock bottom. And, and basically people, you know, people, they change slowly and people, they want, they want the change to come from them, and they don't want anyone to preach them too much unless they're already interested in that.[00:28:00]
Tomer Pappe: So, um, I know this Messiah feeling and every, every, everybody experienced that also. But then there is like, it's an evolution of a change also. And then you see that. The people that want, they will come. The people that you know, the, the true seekers, they will, they will find you anyway. It doesn't matter to them if you, you don't have to shout it, uh, to them.
Tomer Pappe: And that's really the secret, because if you get, you know, to our, our parents generation, again, our grandparents generation, they, they, they're already, you know, they are coded, they're really coded for, to some foods and some habits that they, some of them even admit that it's bad for them. But you can't really change, uh, force the change on them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, that's true. I learned that this past few weeks. Yeah, and it's just, it's, it's heartbreaking that you know, you wanna share this good information that people get so upset with you about it. It's like, but I'm not saying you have to do it. It's just a different opinion. It's a different option. And of what you're doing isn't working because I see that it's not [00:29:00] working and you say, you're doc, I'll try anything, but you're unwilling to try something, then you're not really ready to try anything.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's, I don't, I'm sure you've come across that.
Tomer Pappe: Yeah, of course. We, we've been there. We, we, we know that. But, uh, that's what you need really to realize that, uh, some people, you, sometimes it's also a matter of respect. Just to respect the, you know, the. Respect them and just you, you, you need to show the way, basically.
Tomer Pappe: That's why, at least that's what I do, you know, in, in all of my pages and in my website, my blog, my Hebrew blog now, I launched all the English channels. You know, I launched my online program in English. Uh, everything is in order to really, to educate and to make it easier to, to other people to understand.
Tomer Pappe: I, I don't want to make it complicated, so as soon as it, as it gets too, you know. As, as you have to put too much effort on one person to change, then you, under you, you understand that it's not the way and your body, you, you [00:30:00] will feel it in deep inside of you that yeah, you maybe spend too much time on this person and usually it's from, it's from the purest place.
Tomer Pappe: You, you really want to pass that, that notion to other people because it's amazing, you know, it's not, you are imposing something good on them, but I know what you mean and we, we will need to, you know, to be like a torch just to, to show it. It doesn't matter. As I said, if it's one person, 10,000 or 10 million followers on Instagram that agree with you, you, you just need to walk the pattern.
Tomer Pappe: The, the, the optimistic, um, message from our conversation now is that, that it, it is going, you know, it's people, uh, they got fed up in my country, in in your country, in the U.S, in the western world. Uh, a lot of countries in Europe, people are fed up really with going, you know, going as ships and. To say, to put the responsibility on, on someone else to say.
Tomer Pappe: This thing, the doctor will, uh, take care of this thing. The, my, uh, agent will do some, some mediator, you know, [00:31:00] that is not really, it's not the going to the root cause of, of that. And people really, they want answers. And the, the reason, a reason, if you really think about it, that people like, you know, Sean Baker, as we mentioned, Dr.
Tomer Pappe: Paul Saladino, uh, the page, you know, carnivore, all of these pages, they, they get. They get bigger and bigger all the time. There is a reason because people are really fed up and it's, it'll get, we will get bigger. We, we, the people.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. It, it is, it's, it's a movement that's growing, but it's, it's interesting 'cause people think it's this newfangled thing, but really we're turning back to our ancient roots.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I mean, that's what people ate 10,000 years ago. That's the only food source that was available on every continent that humans lived on in every season. And so, if you think about it from a sense like that, it's like, well. We should probably eat what our answers ancestors ate to get us to here because what we're doing now is not getting us to where we want to be.
Tomer Pappe: Yeah. And it's important to to tell to. [00:32:00] Put the message out there that really it's, you know, it's not a trend. We are not doing it. It's not like a Kim Kardashian new nutrition trend or something like that. We, we are really, we are going to the root, we're going to the things that will last for life. It's decades ahead.
Tomer Pappe: It, I will do it also when I will be 80 and 90 if Guy, you know, if the, the way will let me do, will let me there. But that's really, that's what it is. It's not like a lose weight kind of a, you know, diet one month, do it and, uh, be before the wedding or before summers or anything like that. It's nothing like that.
Tomer Pappe: And I remember that. When I started my journey and I was just starting low carb, it was be before carnivore, I was just experimenting with reducing my carbs and eating a normal low carb meals like, uh, chicken and I, I just was experimenting for the first year probably with myself with low carb diet, and I had a girlfriend back then.
Tomer Pappe: And I was hosted at, at the house. And my mother, she asked me, she said, wow, it's an amazing diet, but what, what is your deadline? Like, wh when do you [00:33:00] stop? It's a, What, what is the pr the plan, it's like one, it's one week or one month. Tell me what, what's usually the protocol here? So she, it looked amazing for her, but she couldn't imagine herself that it's a lifestyle.
Tomer Pappe: And for me it was weird. This question I told and I said like, no, it's a. I chose it. Like, that's what I'm doing now. She, uh, it was like a funny conversation, but I think many people, they look at the diets like that and they have to put it in boxes. You know, there is, as you said, there is like the vegans.
Tomer Pappe: There is the carnivores, there is the, the low carbers, and you have fruitarians and it's all like a, it's, it's like a tribes, you know, we are one against each other, but. I think you, you, me, and the our people that we are going to the root cause. We, we don't need to put it out there as a trend really.
Tomer Pappe: That's, we're going back to the roots. That's all.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Exactly. And, and curing disease. Because when you look at it from this perspective disease that we see, like hypertension, like metabolic disease, those are symptoms of metabolic unhealth.[00:34:00]
Tomer Pappe: Yeah, everything is a symptom. You know, it's people experiencing a lot of things In the end, most of them are not aware of one person gets a leg pain some day or a, a pain in the knee, and it happens to a lot of, uh, maybe elderly people or, uh. Again, the older generation, but also to, to many people, uh, in their thirties even.
Tomer Pappe: And people, they, they don't really think, what, what really, you know, it sounds a bit like a hippie and all, but, uh, it's, it's really, it is like your body is trying to tell you something and it's, it can be a pain in the knee, it can be some, it usually it's some inflammation in the body, some local inflammation.
Tomer Pappe: And the inflammation can get to be systemic inflammation. And then diseases, more diseases will arise, but. People really, they don't think about it. And we want to cure disease, but also prevent them because like any machine, you know, like any good machine in the body is the best machine in nature. Our human body, basically, it's the most, uh, sophisticated one.
Tomer Pappe: So if you give it the, the good, the [00:35:00] right conditions and optimal conditions, and it's very simple. You don't have to be too complicated. Just give it what it knows, you know, it knows the tissues, it knows the molecules of meat because the body is meat. Also. It knows fat because the body is. Produced outta fat also, all of our cells give it that, and it's not only, uh, you will cure the disease, you will prevent them, which this is really like, I think this is the big message of all of these people in this field.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I. Yeah, exactly. It's, uh, our, our GI system is not like that of a cow at all. And the cows have a very different GI system because they eat things that we can't. They, they have multiple stomachs. They have, I mean, their whole GI is completely different. Whereas our system is more like that of a dog or a cat, which are carnivores.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And you, you think that that would make sense to people. Uh, but there's still people that say, well, you gotta eat, you know, this, that, and the other. Um. Well, you have to have some sort of meat in your diet, otherwise you'll never get the essential things that you need. You know, there there is no essential carbohydrate, but there are essential fats and there are essential [00:36:00] proteins.
Tomer Pappe: Uh, there is no such thing as the body in the body as a lack of carbohydrates. You don't, you don't have lack of carbohydrate disease. There's, it doesn't exist in nature. I. But what you do have quite a lot actually is a protein, lack of protein. You know, um, many, many diseases get out of lack of protein.
Tomer Pappe: Actually, the most of the third world, you know, like the, the first country in the world, they suffer a lot from lack of protein, but you never heard of. Um, lack of carbohydrate disease because it's very simple. Our liver produce the glucose, basically twenty-four, seven. As long as we breathe on this planet and in this life cycle, our liver will keep producing glucose in the amounts that we exactly need.
Tomer Pappe: And it does it, it's very delicate regulatory system, um, that our bodies. Regulating on that very, very carefully. Will not, it will, it will never stop. But what we, what we need, [00:37:00] actually, it's the protein and fat because these are the building blocks. It's, it's very simple. And when you nature, you know, everything in nature, um, really recognize real, like our body wants the same tissues.
Tomer Pappe: He wants to, to get the same building blocks and. It's true what you said, that the cow and many other animals, they found a way to go over that. And you have, you have also herbivores animals. Of course you have, you got everything like the gorillas and many other, uh, examples. But, but yeah, as human beings, that's how we live.
Tomer Pappe: We need our tissues also, cats. Cats are basically all the cats family in a, the mammal kingdom. It's like the, they're the ultimate carnivores.
Tomer Pappe: Also, I just, I remember that also my cat, you know, I, we, it's funny, my cat is now 14 and uh, eight years ago I introduced him also to low-carb diet, just because I read about it exactly the same. Point. You know, in the same point in my life that [00:38:00] I started to do my change, I started to think, wait, what? Why do I give my cat this garbage from the supermarket?
Tomer Pappe: Really, it's, it's cheap. It's, it has nothing in it. It has a lot of seed oils and maybe some potatoes, leftovers. So I was starting to read about it too. And then you see, you have the Pottinger, uh, experi experiment, which was amazing. A Pottinger was a. He was a student basically of Dr. Western a price, which his findings, they were like a wow.
Tomer Pappe: It's also mind blowing. And, but Pottinger really put all the effort into cats and he saw that in the third generation of coffee cats that being fed, uh, raw meat. It's like a miracle, it's a epigenetics. He changed his own genetics, his own diseases that he had to be born with, that he was already coded because of the past generations that got really a shitty diet basically.
Tomer Pappe: So he, he could even fix that, even fix his DNA. So that was amazing. And I. When I tried it on my cat, you know, it's only, you can say that it's an anecdote, but my cat got a much, he, he ate [00:39:00] less meals basically. He became more, um, more concentrated. You, you saw that he is more like he is not running around.
Tomer Pappe: He is much more calm and you could see that he's fair. It became much more soft, which, uh, it's a sign, it's a good sign for health in animals.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You mentioned Western price. Um, I, I seen a movie that was about him. So tell us a little about him. 'cause he, he's amazing. Like the, the videos that he took in foreign countries, it's just, it's, it's mind-blowing to see the, the facial features and structures of these people that he went to go visit.
Tomer Pappe: Yeah, his story is amazing. It's, um. What, what I, you know, today everybody love to quote him and it's becoming like, uh, it's also becoming like a bit, uh, popular to, to quote him, but, but there is a reason for that. Uh, many people, they called him the Isaac Newton of nutrition, and basically what he was doing, he was, um, he was a dentist in Canada in the.
Tomer Pappe: Before in 1900. It was like, um, [00:40:00] 100, uh, 40 years ago probably was active. And then he was starting to see that his patients, they, it's the same as happened to many heart surgeries, surgeon and many other profession that he was thinking, wait, I treat my patients all the time. I treat them, uh, I fix their teeth.
Tomer Pappe: Sometimes I get the root canal. I do a lot of stuff. But what, why, why does it happening? Like he was asking himself and he. He was, he understood that there is some places in the world that they don't even have, they don't have dentists. You know, they don't treat their teeth whatsoever. They don't clean it in any way, but they don't, they're clean of, uh, diseases.
Tomer Pappe: You know, they, their teeth lasts until their, the last day of their lives and they age perfectly. So. Basically he started doing that. He was, he became like a food researcher, or you can say like the father of nutrition, and he took his wife and they went to like the most distant tribes in the world. He was in the, I don't exactly remember their name, but it's a ancient tribe in the Swiss Alps.
Tomer Pappe: They, they were living in a valley for [00:41:00] thousand and thousands of years. Uh, they, they basically lived by the milk products that they produce, and they were walking a lot in the sun and it was famous that they all get to really a great longevity and they get to like 100 and they're all healthy. And they don't have doctors, they don't have any clinicians.
Tomer Pappe: So it went there, it went to the, to the Australia, to the tribes there. He went to the Indian tribes in the U.S in Canada. Uh, basically what he, what he found that the, these people, they have some something in common, have. You, you can see in every society like that in the world that they're a distant society.
Tomer Pappe: They're tribe, and they live exactly the way they used to live more than 10,000 years ago. E even it goes back before agricultural revolution. So you found some amazing things and everything is documented. So that's why people have to quote him because actually he was, um, he had a diary that he was.
Tomer Pappe: Anything. He took picture, he took pictures of one tribe that, uh, there were two sisters, [00:42:00] the one sister, she moved to the city in the same country and she got introduced to the industrial new modern life, which basically is the equivalent to the one that was back then in Canada, in the U.S. And the other sister, she remained in the village with the same.
Tomer Pappe: Um, the same traditions. She was eating a lot of organs in this place. They, they were eating animals. Everything was, uh, locally grown. Not even the land wa wasn't even processed. It's like, it's as clean as you can get. Not nothing is processed in this land, at least when, when he was doing it, which it goes back 120 years ago.
Tomer Pappe: And uh, that's what he discovered, that the sis one sister remained completely healthy. He, he was seeing that the. Basically the, the, this structure is perfectly built with no any, they don't have any bracelets, nothing. They just, it, it goes like that, like as nature intended, intended nature wanted us to have.
Tomer Pappe: A wide, wide, uh, jaw. So we can, we can process the food as, [00:43:00] as, uh, good as it as we can. We, we need to know how to bite that. The teeth will be parallel. And the, the sister that remained in the tradition ways of living, which was a lot of organs, a lot of meat, a lot of locally grown products, nothing processed.
Tomer Pappe: So it became perfect, like a perfect, uh, artery of teeth. Of teeth, really. And the other sister is so. A lot of tooth decay called it a lot of, um, canals that he had to, had, she had to, she had to go through and everything is documented. It took like, uh, hundreds of pictures and it was comparing between one, one member of the family and the other, and it's all the same.
Tomer Pappe: DNA, the only thing the different is really the lifestyle. And then today it's really, it's implementable. You know, you can take everything that Weston price discovered and you can implement it today as far as you can. You can. Go to the growers, you know, to the people, to the farmers, to the people that really, you know, what they put there, you know, that they don't put pesticides, you know, that they locally ground their meat, they grass-fed meat.
Tomer Pappe: The, you, you can implement as much as you can. And I know that today you have the Weston, a price [00:44:00] foundation that they actually doing it. And you have people like a Dr. Sarah Campbell, um, some others there, that they're really active and it's still going on, like the, the, his heritage is still living.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's wonderful.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Uh, well, Tamer, I need to start wrapping up. Uh, where can people find you and your information and get plugged into your, your movement, what you're doing, your tribe, if you will?
Tomer Pappe: My tribe is, for many years now, it's in my country, in Israel, but now we became international. I opened the, all my programs, all my online programs. They're available now in English. You can find it in my website. It's tamerpappe.com, it's pape. It's P-A-A-P-E. And um, all my channels are now also available in English where you got them launched recently.
Tomer Pappe: It's normal blood glucose, so I call it normal blood G. Sounds really cool. And um, you can find that Facebook, Instagram, that's the name I invite everybody to go there. It's also carnivore, it's also for diabetics to balance your blood [00:45:00] glucose, everything that we really. Really matters.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This has, this has been great. I, I love hearing from current divorce who have just changed their life and then used that to change other people's lives.
Tomer Pappe: Yeah. That's important. Sam, we should keep on doing it. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much Tomer.
Tomer Pappe: Thank you for having me.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: God bless you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there due to uniform of the day, the full armor of God. Let's all make courage more contagious than fear.[00:46:00]
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120. Chewing the Fat with Eric Reynolds "Keto Five-0"
Today I chew the fat with Eric Reynolds also know as Keto Five-0. He is a retired police officer that has changed his life with diet and the lies of many other officers. Please enjoy. Like, follow, and share. Thank you.
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120. Keto 5-0 Eric Reynolds audio
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Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": [00:00:00] And then I started reading, you know, I read Nina Tyshaw's book, the Fat Surprise, and I watched fat fiction and Magic Pill and Fat, you know, all these things in my mind just like, oh, these guys are organized crime, they're criminals, the sugar industry, the whole FDA. They're all. Dirty. Dirty, dirty, dirty.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I've got enough organized crime classes and this is what it is. They've gotten themselves outta street crimes and they're, now, they're involved in politics and corporations and they got control, especially for government. That's another issue. But it's crazy. They're, they should be in jail allowing this stuff to go out there to the public.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Man, you know, I started saving cops, you know, you know, you lose 50 pounds, they start coming up to, Hey, five, oh, you gotta help me, man. You know, what'd you do? I go, you gotta get that soda.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's mycleanbeef.com/afterkours. Mycleanbeef.com/afterhours[00:02:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed, I've been wearing this T-shirt for a few episodes, now I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you'll be encouraged to question everything.
Nurse Kelly: And to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if you're interested in one of these T-shirts that I'm wearing, check out the link below. Our very next special guest is Eric Reynolds. He's, his handle is Keto Five-O. He has a history in law enforcement and he found himself getting a little too heavy to do what he wanted to do in life. Eric, thanks for coming on with us.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Tell us your story.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I. Thanks. So where do you want me to start off? Being a chunky kid in the eighties with that horrible processed food that they introduced into our diet, or, that sounds like a good place as a cop, but No, I mean, I was looking back, you know, obviously having young kids now and we're very strict with what they [00:04:00] eat.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": We're not these crazy people that I. Don't let 'em eat certain things. We just control what they eat. Whether it's something sweet like blueberries, you know, versus having some, you know, high fructose corn syrup or some type of horrible treat like that. You know, we're very into that grass-fed meats only for them, you know, obviously, you know, all the clean, cleanest foods we can possibly get.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So I look back in my own history in the eighties and you know, and when I was 10 years old, I was kind of a skinny kid like every other kid, you know. And then something happened. By the time 1990 hit when I was in college, I had a, a weight problem. You know, I was probably about 30 pounds over, even in college, you know, I put on the freshman weight, especially when I wasn't playing football anymore.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So I wasn't, you know, burning those calories. I was still eating like a football player and all of a sudden I had to spare tire and, you know, the whole thing happened. Scared to take my shirt off. Everything from that point on and later in life, and I dove into my nutrition and saved myself, you know. I figure out what they were doing to the foods.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You know, my mom was hard-working as a cop [00:05:00] herself. You know, she was divorced trying to raise a kid at home and my grandmother looking after me, you know, and she thought she was, you know, they, the guidelines said do this, this food has, Hey, it's healthy, you know, Kellogg's and all that garbage and all this other stuff.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": She thought she was doing the right thing and then eating the school lunches. No. So I could totally see why I was dope falling asleep in class. Why I had, you know, I probably would've been diagnosed with ADHD. I mean, I needed to be outside running around, you know, and that's one of the reasons we pulled our kids outta school.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": We've been homeschooling for about six years now. Full-time rv, and traveling the country the last, almost three and a half years now. So it's just been, that's the type of learning I wish I had, but at least I'm, you know, able to give them opportunity to do that. How old are your kids right now? They're, uh, 12 and eight.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Two boys, two little maniacs like myself. You know, I got into That's awesome. A kid game in my late forties. So I'm 54 now, and here I am chasing around twelve-year-olds and eight-year-olds. But that's right. I'm in better shaped than all those thirty-year-old dads. [00:06:00] Anyway, so I don't really worry about it.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: yeah, no, you look like you're in your forties, so that's That's great. That. You, before we started recording, you were telling me about a time where you went to a funeral and, and you had also gone to some houses and, and you know, found a elderly person that was dead and you were looking through their meds and some of the things that you discovered that you thought of when you started seeing those, those incidences.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I was telling you how I was kind of looking in, you know, when the doctor started telling me about stents and heart disease and high cholesterol, I started looking in into that world and I remember all my times as a police officer. Down here in South Florida, we have a lot of elderly and we also have a lot of rehab facilities and.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You know, a lot of overdoses and a lot of people passing, and we're responsible for those scenes when we get there. And one of the protocols is you gotta kind of list down all the medications that you see at, you know, poor, you know, uncle Jesse passed away. Well, he's got a whole medicine cabinet full of narcotics.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Some, some of it is, some of it isn't. You still gotta go through it [00:07:00] and you know, it's technically evidence and you don't want kids grabbing it or neighbors or whatever. And I just remember writing, getting hand cramps and stuff like that, and questioning all the time. They're like heart disease, natural causes all the time on the death certificate.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Said we'd have to get and attached to the reports. And I remember thinking, man, it's a whole bag of pills killing these people, man. Just, you know, it was just something I was looking into, you know, just never really became my thing. I, I wasn't like into the science of pharma or the medical business as I was saying at that point.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You know, but I couldn't believe that these people had medications for everything back and forth, like for every symptom, you know?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And it just makes sense when you start looking into this stuff that Yeah, they're, they're piling all these meds on. Yeah, they're sick, but are these meds causing more problems?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it seems like you could sense that even when you had no medical knowledge, no training whatsoever.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Yeah, we'd have to sometimes arrest or Baker act as they say. You know, somebody that's out of their mind at the time and there are blood thinners and now we're ripping their skin off. I mean, it [00:08:00] became some very grotesque situation when you're trying not to hurt somebody.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You know, but here you are trying to protect 'em and it's just, and then someone's, you know, trying to record it and you're like, great, it looks like I'm battering this lady. You know? But, you know, and then also going into the two thousands, the opioid crisis was hitting hard. You know, we had people from different states coming down, 'cause our pills were cheaper by the, you know, by the thousand or whatever you were pill shopping for.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And you go back up to Tennessee, Kentucky, wherever, and you were getting, you know. Let's see, 20 bucks down here, they're getting 80 to a hundred up there. So some guy would, you know, front them the money, go hit all the doctors and you know, you see guys passing out McDonald's, parking lots, shooting up. It was just a crazy scene.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And then we got involved in investigating doctors and we started seeing, you know, the same doctors showing up on these prescriptions. And we'd give it to the task force and the task force would do an investigation, boom, search warrants. So then I started seeing doctors getting arrested. So I'm like, man.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You know, so I was always suspicious. So when, obviously, when I was telling [00:09:00] you, um, about my shooting and being shot and going through PTSD and the weight gain that happened from that, uh, I was diagnosed with heart disease. I was telling about my high calcium score of 1400 at the time, 1,104 50 or something.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Maybe it was three 50 and they kind of scared me. Yeah. And then, you know, I, I was also thinking, you know, not every test is accurate, you know, and then I didn't want to go get redone again 'cause I, I looked up how much radiation that was doing to my freaking chest, you know, I was like, ah, let me try this keto diet that my buddy had lost 50 pounds.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I'm playing basketball, you know, and I. I kind of read up on it. The whole fat burning thing was so foreign to me. I never really even understood that. You know, I grew up with fat was bad, you know, that whole thing, you know, no butter, you know, my body, man, I would just eat steaks randomly, man. I think my body's just yelling at me, man.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And you know, I would get the big whatever's on sale and I think I almost secretly would eat the whole steak, you know, with whatever girlfriend had at the time that was like, you can't eat the whole steak. It's [00:10:00] bad for you. My, my body was like, no, I gotta eat this thing. So, I don't know. I always stayed pretty a.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I always stayed pretty athletic as a cop. You know, I always played basketball, was always in the gym, but it's still gaining weight like I was telling you. And then, you know, obviously understanding the uh, diet. And then once I started feeding myself real, food started healing my brain, I. I got more motivated in that world, started dropping weight, understanding what I was actually putting in my diet.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I mean, I always, always laugh. Tell the cops. That's how the whole keto five-Oh. Started, they called me keto all the time and then five-Oh, you know they run from us in the hood. Hey, five-Oh, they're here right from Hawaii five-Oh, so it became Keto five-Oh. And I just would tell him, man, I go you. It's mind-blowing what I'm learning about.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You know the diet and nutrition, how you can just lose weight by night. Eating, fasting, I discovered and it was so foreign, and here we are. We can write search warrants. I can write an arrest report. I can go in and do some of the craziest investigations and write reports, but I don't [00:11:00] even know how to.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Read my blood work, you know? So I remember talking to guys about their HDL and their LDL and finding Dr. Berry, and you know, I, I met Dr. David Diamond, who talked about the cholesterol and the statins and all that. BS, they've been pumping down the system, right? So I was just like, you know, I started saving cops, you know, you know, you lose 50 pounds, they start coming up to you.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Hey, five, oh, you gotta help me, man. You know, what'd you do? I go, you gotta get that soda. Get that soda. I show 'em a video of someone showing, you know, that sixty-four grams of freaking sugar in it, and their minds are blown. And I go, just try it. Try sparkling water, let's go. You know, you gotta wean some people off in different ways, whatever.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": They're kind of hooked, you know? And with cops, it's always smoking. And it's always booze. So that was always a challenge for 'em. I mean, it's tough to take that away. So I'm like, all right, no beer. Let's go vodka or some whiskey and let's work on what we're mixing that with let's, you know, slowly get them off of that stuff.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So it became very, I became very passionate about it, helping all kinds of first responders came my way, you [00:12:00] know, and then I think it's amazing, obviously this whole camping life I've come, yeah, it's been great. And, and that stair step approach. Oh yeah. So I ended up losing 80 pounds total, so that was another, wow.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I'm sorry, the delay got me. The step approach 80 pounds over the two years. Going from, sorry, go ahead. What do you mean the stair-step?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, the stair-step approach of, you know, first of all, how can we make today better? So instead of doing beer, do, do vodka, do whiskey, or instead of doing your soda, do sparkling water.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How go through some of that that you've actually talked to real conversations you've had with other, other first responders.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Yeah, I would get them to try and fast on their shift and then maybe, depending on when they were getting off, whether what was open a diner. All right, bacon and eggs, fellas, let's go load it up.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You know, get the sausages and you know, don't go to bed right away, you know? But you know, usually by the time they get home and you know, chicken wings all the time, you can almost get chicken wings in anywhere. You gotta wash the sauces. You know? Yeah, yeah. A lot of the, even the cream, you know, the [00:13:00] branches, all that they have, all the soy and all, that's still, you gotta get there.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So at least you're getting 'em off the fries and you know, the fast food garbage that's just, you know, poisoning people. So, and also, like I said, really un letting them understand their blood work. You know, a lot of people didn't understand any of 'em. They just listened to what their doctors are saying.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I'm like, man, you won't believe this a lot. But unfortunately, a lot of these guys are just part follow. They're following the narrative, you know? And. Yeah, I feel bad, you know that nobody else, I mean all these doctors I found in these, you know, these different events I've gone to and some of the people I've found like yourself, it's amazing that it's just so black and white, how eating this way cures so many diseases.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And I wanted to ask, 'cause recently, and I know this wasn't part of our agenda, my, my son, my youngest
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": was diagnosed with Lyme disease. Really, and we were going about three months through a whole bunch of stuff. We'd go, gone up to New York for some cops and campers events and stuff. We'd been all over the place.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So it's like he wasn't bitten by a tick. We didn't [00:14:00] find a bite. I. You know, and then you go down the rabbit hole of lime and it could be mosquitoes, it could be fleas. Then you find out about bioweapon possibilities and stuff like this, and you just start, wow. And then related to kovat stuff and the wool hand lab.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And you, you really can go down that rabbit hole and freak yourself out. But it's a low inflammation diet is what's helping my son battle a lot of this stuff, you know? And it's just another avenue that shows me how this. You know, anti-inflammatory way of eating. Keto, keto-vore, carnivore, getting out the process, food-vore, whatever you wanna call it.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You know, it's just been amazing. And the answer's there, I.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You know, one thing that I wanna suggest you guys see it is if you wanna learn more about Lyme, this is for you and for the audience is check out, uh, was it Lab 2 57? It's all about Plum Island off the coast of New York. And in that book, they go into all the bio weapon research that the U.S government did.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and they don't use doctors to do the research. They, because there's IRBs internal or, uh. You know, internal review [00:15:00] boards that you have to pass. So they use veterinarians to do the research and they use veterinarians to do the research into Lyme disease. And there was never Lyme disease. There was never any tick-borne illnesses until they started studying it at Lab 2 57 off of on Plum Island.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So I strongly encourage everyone to take a look at that book. Now this is not medical advice for you or your family or for anyone's family, but go check out my episode seventy-nine, where I talk about chlorine dioxide. Again, I'm not suggesting it as a medical treatment for anything 'cause the FDA could have me arrested or something like that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I don't know. Uh, but it's something worth looking into. I. There's, I, I know a man who got rid of his acute, uh, age-related macular degeneration by using that substance, dropping it in his eyes. Uh, I know a man who got rid of his, his son's anaphylaxis to tree nuts, uh, by giving him a very strong concentration of that, that substance.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I know another man who got rid of his, uh, bladder cancer by taking it. And that that man who got rid of his bladder cancer, his father got rid of ms. [00:16:00] Uh, by taking chlorine dioxide. Which is likely a parasitic infection, not some sort of neurologic, just a neurologic issue.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Yeah. We, we were pretty, we were thinking it was everything from Marfan to, you know, it was a pediatric, uh, Rheumatoid arthritis.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": They were telling us at the hospital. Wow. And then once we talked to a naturopathic doctor and told the symptoms and said, should we take the antibiotics? A lot of it's only effective. Right away we couldn't find a bite and we'd be going through this about three to four months. Oh, wow. We thought we missed the window anyway, so we weren't, you know, we're, you know, we're, we're, those people we're just not gonna just jump to, you know, antibiotics right away.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So she had said, did you test him for Lyme? And we're like, nah. So we ended up testing 'em and boom, it hit. Yeah. And he had everything man looking like a cripple, the poor kid. It was heartbreaking, you know, going through that. But we learned so much about it. And you know, I've got a couple friends in the keto world, like, you know,
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": you, you [00:17:00] know, people and I, you know, and he told us some stuff.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And the, uh, under your skin documentary was very. You know, informative
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": and author. I think she wrote a book called Bitten, you know, and it's just like you said, that Plum Island stuff and you look back to where it originated back in Germany and what they were trying to test on the, you know, on the Russian, you know, pigs or whatever, the Russian animals over there, and you're like, wow, man.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": How far back? It's still showing up right? Anyways, I digress. Yeah, no. And oh,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: and one other incidence that I know of. I personally spoke to a man who had a, a seafood allergy to crustaceans, to fish, to freshwater saltwater fish. Um, since he was a child, he'd eat something and he'd vomit, and he did chlorine dioxide every day for a month.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I don't know the exact regimen how much he had every day, but he'd drink it throughout the day, and at the end of that month, he could start to eat fish. And he didn't like the taste of it, but it didn't make him vomit. He didn't have that visceral response anymore. So it's, it's an interesting substance that everyone should look into and see if it's right for them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Again, I'm not giving any medical advice that we, I have no [00:18:00] patient, uh, physician relationship with anyone that hears this message.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Episode 79. Got it. Yeah, check it out.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And that guy that I talked to about it is a pediatric orthopedic surgeon from Mexico where he's allowed to use it in treatment. Okay. But yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So tell me, um. When you, like how you first discovered it, you said a, a friend of yours and, and take me through that when you first like started realizing, hey, if I eat different, my life changes.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Well, I remember I was coaching T-ball and I. You know, running around with these kids, you know, I, as a cop, even though I was suffering going through stuff, I still tried to stay somewhat connected to society on some level, one foot in.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So I was coaching t-ball, and I remember the first thing I ever made when I started this whole eating window, eating at nine, one and five or 12 and five, and I made the fathead. Pizza, the keto pizza or something like [00:19:00] that. And I put a big couple of big pieces of pepperoni on it. I waited. I had my coffee, I put some broth in it.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I remember that. And some ghee butter early in the morning, like six. And then I had on my way to the T-ball, I had a slice of that. And I wasn't hungry for like hours, you know? And I remember them talking about the healthier fats, you know, and. It's like, wow, is this good or bad for my digestive system? So, you know, you start seeing a little bit of success, feeling a little bit better, and I felt challenged.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": 'cause I didn't wanna go the other way or other way. I didn't want Dr. Feelgood to start cutting into me and messing around. So I really dove into it. You know, I found a couple of videos, you know, I think I went, the very first place I ever went to was Ketogenic.com and I read about recipes. And I started making my own recipes.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": The meal planning became huge, making my own linguine, Lasagna, not linguine, I'm sorry. Uh, zucchini lasagna was a go-to cauliflower, mac and cheese. I, I'd throw a hamburger in there. I I was always heavy meat. It'd say [00:20:00] one pound of meat, blah, blah. Yeah, I'd go four pounds of meat, extra cheese, and that's how I rolled man.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And losing the weight, like I said, within two weeks, I remember taking, I wear myself every week. Once in a while I'd cheat. Like everybody, you get on there midweek and then you're like yelling at yourself, why'd I do that? And, you know, um, but I had a memory of photos of losing two pounds a week. Boom, boom.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You know, from 2 38, 2 36, you know, and I remember getting down to two-twenty-four, and I'm like. And looking back and feeling good, you know? And at the time, a, after my shooting, there was an evidence job that popped up in my department, A typical desk job. Everyone hates it. Who? Who wants to be locked in the building?
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I do. 'cause I already got shot. I don't wanna go out there again. I don't wanna take a break. Right? So I jumped into evidence. I. Meal prep. I didn't have to battle shift, like going to call to call unless it was a crazy call. So I had that going in my side. Had time to go seek out therapy through workers' comp and address the PTSD, you know, coming to fighting workers' comp.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": But anyways, evidence job [00:21:00] ex, you know, saved me. But I, I allowed myself meal prep. One of those stupid, you know, counting your steps all day. I did it. I set a goal like 10,000 and I'm 9,000 on Monday night. I'm walking around to get that 10, you know, and it became motivation and you start seeing those little bit of success and feeling better at the same time.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And then it empowered me, you know? And then I started reading, you know, I read, read Nina Teichel's book, the Fat Surprise, and I watched Fat Fiction, magic Pill, and Fat, you know, all these things in my mind, just like. Oh, these guys are organized crime. They're criminals. The sugar industry, the whole FDA.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": They're all dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty. I've got enough organized crime classes and this is what it is. They've gotten themselves outta street crimes and they're, now, they're involved in politics and corporations and they got control, especially for government. That's another issue. But it's crazy. They're, they should be in jail allowing this stuff to go out there to the public man.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": [00:22:00] Yeah. You know, I mean, it's, it's just crazy. I'm sorry. I just get, I go crazy thinking about it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The oils. The oils. Most people don't realize that these oils that we put in our foods were originally designed to lubricate engines, and they said, Hey, we could eat 'em too. Well, yeah, well, they don't kill you right when you eat them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But they cause problems over time. They cause serious problems over time.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You got fluoride. You look at that, you know, you start seeing, you peel back that layer, man, you can't go back. You know? I mean, it's, yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I re recently stumbled across this YouTube channel called The Evil Food Supply. I encourage everyone to go check it out.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Those videos are phenomenal. They have one on fluoride, they have one on Ozempic Semiglutide and how awful that is for your body. They, they have all of these videos about food and I encourage everyone to go check it out. 'cause it's just, it expands your mind and then you can't go back to the same size once you've expanded it.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Yeah, that's what happened to me with, um, I think it was Magic Pill and then Fat Fiction after I saw those two movies. And then, like I said, reading [00:23:00] Big Fat Surprise in the sugar industry. You know, I saw like Dr. Robert Lustig's presentation from years ago about Coca-Cola, and, and it just all was clicking to me everything, all my issues I had growing up, the rashes on my body, the cysts once in a while, like weird things going on.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": My body's just been trying to push out all these toxins all these years. You know, and man, there ain't no money. I'm sorry, I started getting all copped on you. There's no money and you being healthy. It's bottom line and they don't care about you. So you gotta take control of your own health and it's okay to know more information than your doctor about what you're going through.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Like I do. When I told my doctor about my nutrition, what I'm doing, he looked at, I was crazy. He is like, your cholesterol is three-sixty-seven. I go, but Dr. Barry. Said that that's okay. You know, so I had some ammo in my pocket, you know, and they don't like hearing that. And I go check out his book, blah, blah, blah.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": But yeah, man, it just, you gotta have the knowledge and you know, the knowledge is power for you. It really is. And there's [00:24:00] hopefully enough people, you know, like I found you, I just looked up Carnivore and lime, or carnivore and keto or something, and you popped up chewing the fat and like, hey. Yeah. And so this is awesome.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I've I heard about you way before. Yeah. So I didn't know you were running a podcast and so I was like, oh, check 'em out. Awesome.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, yeah, and, and I discovered my enlightenment of diet happened just before Covid, uh, which was great timing for me. 'cause then I was able to, to see through all the garbage of Covid and, and the bioweapon and, and all that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But I'm impressed when people have seen that long before that. And it, you know, there's guy, guys that have been doing this for years, years and years.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Yeah, I was, I was fortunate because everyone I followed in 2018, I remember there's a documentary I was in, just a small one called Cops in Cabins. There's about eight cops go to a cabin. We all hang out. We don't know each other. We tell stories. One of the cops is a documentary guy and he films it, and it's only [00:25:00] about.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I don't know, nine minutes or something, but I break down in it 'cause I'm dealing with stress at the time and I was heavy man, and I looked metabolically sick and that was one of the things that helped me, you know, look into the keto world and then all of a sudden I'm losing weight. They're telling me to get stents in my chest.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": They're telling me all this, I need medication, blah, blah, blah. And then Covid starts to hit. I continue to lose weight. I retired right before Covid on my 50th birthday, so I release that stress. Lost the next twenty-five pounds. Saw my abs for the first time since I was probably born doing crunches, trying to, you know, breastfeed or something, and I was in the mirror.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": My wife's like, what are you, do? I go, I can't believe I could have had this 30 years ago, right? Not that I would've been sh maybe I would've showed off. I probably would've showed up. I'm not gonna lie, but it was still cool. Like I, I actually had a body, I actually had this under my fat suit. I told her, I go, once I got all those, that fat suit, this is what was under there.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And that's why guys would say, man, you moved pretty, you moved pretty good for a big guy. [00:26:00] Well, 'cause I had something under that was just, you know, overweight, you know, and too heavy man. And then Covid hit, and then all the people I was following, whether it was Mercola or it was, uh, you know, the dirty Dozen.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Types, you know, that had helped me with nutrition. They helped me with nutrition. A lot of, they weren't trying to make money, and all of a sudden they had a certain opinion on what, what was going on with Kovat, Dr. Shiva, seeing his thing about me. His, uh, I'm sorry, your immune system and all this stuff was fascinating to me.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And I dove into that world. And then I got caught up and started getting banned on Facebook, trying to help people out. And then get, I, you know, I became the, you know, the, I guess anti-vaxxer, but it wasn't that I was just. You know, we did our homework before we vaccinated our kids, and you know what we did and we didn't vaccinate our kids.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": All right? Um, we ended up, my wife breastfed for, yeah, she breastfed three years. We stayed involved in our kids' lives. We didn't go out to movies,
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": we didn't go out to dinner. We sacrificed I to details, whatever I had to do to keep her home with [00:27:00] our child because she wanted to, at that point, she was a career woman The minute she had that kid.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Mama took over. I need to be with my child and I'm watching what he eats. And turns out she found out during that breastfeeding that she was allergic to gluten like a lot of us are. 'cause she had some issues with our son. She took out the gluten, all of a sudden he got better and she felt fantastic. You know?
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And that's when, you know, that was way back in the beginning of our journey of nutrition, one of the little things that helped us go down that road.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you don't mind, I'd like to talk about your PTSD a little bit. Not, not the details of it, but how diet may have helped. So I have a lot of experience with military.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Personal 'cause I was in the army and I know that police officers are in a lot of similar, you know, dangerous situations that like you yourself have been shot. And that's not something that the general public typically sees. These are issues that can cause PTSD, that can reasonably cause PTSD. And I've noticed, I, I had a patient that was a Ford observer, a fister, and it helped him with his PTSD.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I've [00:28:00] had, you know. Spouses that had anxiety, it was destroying their marriage, and it helped their anxiety and their marriage came back together. How did eating this way open your mind enough to see that, Hey, not only do I have a problem, but I have a solution to that I can find if I work on it?
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Well, I remember, you know, obviously drinking became more of a focus of my everyday life. You know, getting home that had to take the edge off, you know? And I wasn't gonna be popping pills or you know, obviously our job, you know, you're gonna be drug tested, you bump a car, you're getting piss test, so you don't want anything showing up.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And guys can't do anything like marijuana or CBD. So it was strictly alcohol. I fell in favor of, and you know, my wife told me. You're changing, something's going on, you know, and I already knew, I was feeling the stress of going back, caught to call every, my heart rate was up instead of already being vigilant where I normally was.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I was here all the time. I couldn't come back down. [00:29:00] And I had come home like that. And then you, you, you stay there over and over and over. And I never could get myself decompressing unless I drank. And then of course. You get down to low, you know, so you're, you're doing this whole rollercoaster. And I knew I was going through that.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And then I, you know, like I said earlier, I battle workers comp and maybe break down in front of a board room or freakin lawyers to make sure that was mentally, you know, unstable or having my issues, whatever they want, you know, I just wanted help because yeah, my foot was healing and my leg was, he healed.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": But up here it was still going through a lot, and I still wanted some answers, you know? And. I finally got ex, you know, sent me to a private doctor, got approved, finally got my doctor, and he told me, Eric, you gotta learn how to dance with this. Your central nervous system's taken over. You're not gonna sleep as comfortable as he used to.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You're not gonna wanna go out to public. Everything that was going through, he was telling me, and of course he's a professional. He's dealt with people in my same situation, probably like yourself. So he knew what I was going through, what was happening, but he [00:30:00] talked to my wife and kids. He got them involved in some of the therapies.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": It became a group project type of thing. I still drank. I lied about how much I was drinking and stuff like that. But then the PTSD, the minute I changed, you know, from sugar and carbs, you know, when I was doing the keto became more focused. I saw success in losing weight, like I was telling you, two pounds every week or so, and lost 50 in the first six months.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Felt confident. Felt more like it empowered me. I felt more motivated. You know, I started looking at, well, I can retire at 50 or I can stay till 55 and get more money. And I'm like, whoa, that five years, what's that kind of caution with my kids? At the time they were eight and three. Yeah. He'll be a teenage, you know, all that stuff's playing games.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And I'm like, man, that five years, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna leave that half million dollars on the table. I'm gonna buy my life back and I'm gonna buy my health. And that I would've never made that decision if I was [00:31:00] eating right before I would've been so worried about college having to jet ski down here in Florida, or the boat, or your HOA fees or whatever.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You know, I would've been so wrapped up in that material me materialistic world. I would've never had this. My wife convinced us to sell our house and get a travel trailer we travel the country with. I mean this, that's what this diet did for me. It just changed my life, man. I mean, it's been fascinating.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": The people I've met, you know, I started a nonprofit, cops and Camperage where we get first responders together and one of the focuses is to get doctors there and people that can help 'em, someone like you. You are welcome to get you camper. You come stay with us. And what we do is we hang out all weekend and guys seem to find a niche, they find somebody, and now they got a camping buddy.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Somebody that is part of their little clique that wasn't there before. You know? And that's why we did the documentary on YouTube. It's just a little 30 minute documentary about what that event's about and what it means to each individual guy. And so that's just some of the things that, you know, I started a keto [00:32:00] Five-O nutrition business.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I went to nutrition school to get my little license and personal training. I mean, all this stuff 'cause of this diet. It's insane, you know, and I've heard about this and you know, people changing careers and being empowered because it, you get clarity in your mind. You know, and you start thinking, I wanna, like, I, I did this social media thing where they sent me a guitar, free guitar.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": If I just did, you know, acted like I was playing with it, right? Yeah. I'm trying to hustle. I, I don't wanna get back out there on the road, so, and I'm, I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna learn how to play guitar. So by the time I'm 60 in six years, I want to be able to learn how to play that guitar. And that's a little goal that I would never tried before.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I'd been like, I'm done growing, I'm done learning, you know? But going into this world and doing the research and my wise eyes wide open on this, everything that's going on from the. Food mafia, all those people. So it's just been fascinating. So that's what the diet, it can empower you to not only take care of your health and empowers your family and other [00:33:00] people around you too.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And that's what was the real goal of mine was seeing cops lose 50, 60 pounds, not have to go to a doctor and feel depressed and sick. And you know, when your doctor looks, you know, looks like shit. I don't think he knows what he's talking about. So, I mean, that's what I was tell them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. When your doctor's four oh pounds, it's hard to take advice from them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. Which I've seen before, a four-hundred pound doctor, and it's like tough to talk about nutrition.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So I dunno if you want me to keep talking 'cause So no, you're saying the PTSD stuff. What really did happen was once I got control of it. I still battle with it every day. There's an incident where the whole reason cops and campers got started was a campground, and upstate New York asked me to take down my thin blue line flag, and I told the guy Palin San.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And then a couple, you know, I got a little crazy with it and I filmed it and I put it out there on Twitter and everything and I kind of took off. And then the [00:34:00] Camping Club, I won't say their names, but it's TT and they. They suspended me from the camping group for two months, so I couldn't make any reservations.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Channel 12 came out in Hudson Valley, did a news story on retired cop, threatened with arrests for flying his thin blue line flag. And I'm just like, I'm just trying to camp here folks. Right? And it turned into some, they had a rally there. And I started this organization now a nonprofit. And what happened over that time, those two months that was suspended?
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Four different campgrounds reached out and said, bring your family, bring your rig and your flag. You're staying with us covering all that time. So they filled in that two month gap. And every one of these campgrounds I was meeting people, local cops would come up, exchanging challenge coins and stuff like that, which I gotta send you one of my challenge coins.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And it was awesome. What an experience. And that's what empowered me then to say, all right, we're gonna turn this negative into a positive. And not only am I gonna camp together, we're gonna get you guys eating right. [00:35:00] And then you're gonna see, it's gonna help you, especially retired cops that are sitting around depressed on medication, overweight.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Let's get you moving boys, let's go. You know? Yeah. I unfortunately, I dunno, I don't take much, I'm sorry.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I don't know much of the, the police world right now. I've got some friends that are police officers, but what you just described is almost every retiree from the army, they, they lose their, their mission.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They, they lose their fraternity, the brotherhood. They, they have nothing to do. They get all the money that they need to survive. Maybe not to thrive, but to survive. And so they sit around and watch TV and their health just spirals down because as men, and, and this is mostly both of these position, you know, careers are mostly male.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, there are women in the field that do great things, but for men, we need to have a purpose of. To give us self-esteem to give us sense of who we are and when we lose that purpose in retirement, when we no longer have that fraternity, just life comes crumbling down. And a lot of guys don't realize that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so they just [00:36:00] find themselves 10 years later sitting on the couch for 10 years and now they're much larger than they used to be about to go get a stint. And it's, if we can help change those, those people to say, yes, you still have a purpose. It's a new purpose. It's a different, it's a different mission set, but it's still a mission.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Yeah, and doing this camp in life for three years, you know, I run into a lot of veterans, whether it's whichever service it is, and like I was saying, they're overweight. I. They have trouble moving. Their dogs are overweight. They look just like 'em. I mean, I'm gonna start another business called Keto Fido, and we're gonna get these dogs and cats back into shape.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Get outta here. Diabetic dog or cat. Are you kidding me? That's just insane to me. I know. That's all you gotta do Anyways, so I, I found that talking with these old guys or you know, I call, you know, they always think I'm a young guy still on the job. I go, nah man, I'm actually, I'm retired. And then they can't believe it.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You didn't hold on. I go, nah, I got out. And talking to 'em. They love it. They love just BS and [00:37:00] sitting around. Oh, so
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": they just love getting together like that. Especially the campfire stories. And that's why the organizations that, the two events I got coming up in New York and in Georgia. Or nothing but campfires sitting around talking. We have some food trucks, we have some, uh, doctors coming. Hopefully I get a, I know Dr.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Kilt said he'd come up to the one in New York. Oh, awesome.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I just talked to him just a couple days ago.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Awesome guy. Yeah, I watched that one. I was watching that one. And yeah, so I'm trying to get Dr. Dr. tro, you know, and you know, I'm going to this, uh. Keto event down in Boca in January. So I'm gonna try to network, I gotta get some people to the, uh, we're going to LJ Georgia in in April, and we're gonna have a little get-together, a nice little RV spot there.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And if you don't have a camper, you can rent one. And we get a great discount and we're gonna have some really good food and hopefully a nice [00:38:00] meetup where people learn about the true, you know, nutrition of meat and how they've been lied to and played, you know?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. I'm, I'm sure before you started doing this and after you started eating this way, you've seen the change in your kids.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: My kids were two and three when we started, and the difference we saw and the way we we sell it to them is strong foods and weak foods. So strong food is anything from an animal. Weak food is anything processed in any vegetable and fruit is kind of in the middle. Unless they've been eating fruit all day, then it's like, okay, let's eat some strong food.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, but their behavioral changes. Have just been astonishing. And, and when they have a meltdown, it's like, well, yeah, it's usually 'cause we just let them eat some weak food and you know, like we go to a birthday party and there's a bunch of weak food there. Well let's eat strong food before we go because we know there's only gonna be weak food there that way.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We, we don't say, no, you can't ever have that. And now they're the, the weird kids, which is not bad to be the weird kid. Let's just put that out there. It's good to be different than normal society, um, but still have those similar interests and similar, uh, [00:39:00] lifestyle that other kids have, but. A different understanding of food.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So have you seen any of those changes in the behavior of your kids?
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Well, we got off to a good start with the wife already diving in that world. So we never really introduced anything really processed. We probably overdid it on some oat bread at some time, and I know oatmeal with raisins and walnuts and stuff was something that she ended up having to drop.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": But as they've gotten older. What we'd notice is we're the family that goes to the birthday parties and we bring our own food, and we just say they're allergic to sugar. They're allergic to sugar. That's it, you know? Oh, with this pizza? Well, yeah, pizza technically turns into sugar. I just, and then we're like, oh, okay.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And then we have their own food and we bring our, we use, uh, almond flour to use, you know, they have a, not to give them a shout out, like Simple Mills or something like that. Makes an almond flour cake. Or you can make biscuits, not biscuits, uh, what do you call it? Uh. Cupcakes out of it. They got cookies. So we just let the kid eat [00:40:00] that there while everyone else eating their cake.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Our kids are eating theirs and nobody cares. Except, you know, you could kind of tell the other parents, they're like, oh my God, they brought their own. I don't care. You know? 'cause in 20 years my kid's not gonna be addicted to sugar. I. Yeah, and I'm not even trying to like, and I'm not preaching and they ask.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Yeah. We just find that he is, we always say, Hey, he is a better behaved kid when he is not on that stuff. That rocks his, you know, obviously his instant levels, but most people you just say, you don't get high on sugar. They're not all jacked up. We just kind of keep him stable and you know, we don't do the juices.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": If they do any fruits, it's. You know, bananas once in a while. I'm, I'm really not liking a banana. I don't do 'em, but the blueberries, strawberries, and they freeze it. So it's like an ice cream treat. She'll pour goat milk on it. We do raw dairy and it's almost like a yogurt frozen treat to them, you know?
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So that's what, you know, they're still tasting sweets. We're not stopping our kids from having this. It's just we realize my son going through the lime. You know, they had a lot of the stuff he was going through had stevia in it 'cause it was helping break up the, uh, I [00:41:00] forgot the casing or whatever the bacteria to get the, uh, Antibiotic or whatever's in there.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And he couldn't take the taste of Stevia, man. 'cause our kids are just not used to that type of sweet taste, you know? And it's crazy how much of the other stuff out there for kids has to be sweetened for them. You know, why not sour it up a little bit? Kids like sour too. You know,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: when you get used to real fruit, which I, I understand that our fruit today is not the fruit we had 200 years ago, but when you're eating that artificial sweeteners, you know, 300 times sweeter, it, it tastes unnatural.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Yeah. And we let their, we let our kids listen to our bodies. My oldest, my twelve-year-old's, true carnivore, he's eaten bull testicles that we slaughtered on a farm that we worked at, you know? Awesome. Yeah. That's some other things we did. I drove a tractor. It was like, I felt like, uh, what about Bob? I was like, I'm driving a tractor.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": I couldn't believe it, but we ended up having to slaughter a pig and a, a bull that got loose and got. We had to [00:42:00] euthanize it, but he ate the testicles 'cause he saw liver king try it. So he is a, he is a hard charger and his DNA just is telling him, Hey, I want to eat bacon, I want to eat meat. And it's good, it keeps him regulated, you know, he's got the body type, you know, mother one's more of the chess player.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": He'll eat a lot of meat, but not like the other one. And he likes his sweets a little more, you know, lot more like his mama. So it's just kind of funny how both kids adapt our personalities with our diet, but it works for each of them. You know, I got one guy that's the athlete and one guy that's the agent.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So that's what we're riding with right now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's awesome. What else do you wanna talk about today? Well, before we go there, I, I give me. If you could give me a, a one or two minute pitch to the 50-year-old retired police officer that you want him to, you know, maybe he was a motorcycle cop, maybe he was, um, driving street [00:43:00] and he just, you want him to come and just try this life for a month.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What, what would you say to that man?
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Oh man. I start off, this is what I usually tell guys. I'm like, you like bacon? They're like, yeah, I like that dog. You like eggs? Yeah. You like whiskey? Yeah. All right. Now we're talking, right? You like chicken wings? Yeah. All right. All right. If you eat like that for a week, let's try it.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Let's just bacon eggs. We'll throw in some avocados. So you make your wife shut up so she thinks you're eating greens, right? Even though it's just a healthy fat, I go, let's try it, you know? But. The craziest thing is you're not you. You gotta get the family involved. You know, I've tried to work with guys, it's so hard when they're still all eating garbage.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You gotta commit to this the same way. Like if you went to this, like when you went to the police academy and you had a wife or a girlfriend and you needed her to be on with you in this right? Or [00:44:00] him, whoever's in your life. They gotta be with you on this. 'cause this really is about life and death and you having a better quality of life.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": You know, heart disease is real. This food will kill you and it's almost right on time. You retire sixty-five, start collecting dead by 70. Have a nice day, right? And it's over and over again. And cops, military, first responders, whoever has any type of high stress job like that, we're losing our lives. Like what?
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": 10 years before? A dozen years before. So we're dying. We don't even get this 70. So do it for your kids. My kids motivate me. I run around with them at the park. I don't catch 'em all the time. I do. I try to do pull-ups. I try to stretch every day. You gotta keep your body moving. Don't, don't become a victim.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": 'cause we, we all lions out there chasing the wolves. Don't become a victim of the wolves. Be that old guy that's gonna be able to fight. And unfortunately, a lot of these cops I see are outta shape. And it's not your fault. The job is stressful. You're gaining weight with the stress. And that's what I'm talking about.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": [00:45:00] Your wife has to be on board, your husband has to be on board. I see so many guys holding onto the job. 'cause the wife's already counting the money he's gonna make at the end. Well, guess what? You may not get to enjoy it with 'em in the end, you know? And it's sad and I see it over at multiple pensions. Military pension, cop pension, school board caught pension dead. Four years later, three pensions. That's it, you know? And it was a heart attack, you know? And it's so many, probably went down that road. Oh, the doctor, oh, you're getting, well, you're getting older. You need, you know, you need Stands or you need blood pressure medication, you know, cut the salt back.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Get away from the red meat. They're freaking poisoning you, man. Organized crime. Don't let them win. Don't let them win, man. It's crazy.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I agree. That's, it's amazing. I love that perspective of the organized crime. 'cause you have the, the research in that, that sector, and it's always looked like it to me.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's dirty. They, they
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": bribe someone at the f FDA. The guy gets a job at the company that bribe em. It's, it's just how it works. I see [00:46:00] it. I, and they do it right in front of us. That's what gets
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: me. Well, they're wearing suits, but they can't be criminals if they're wearing suits.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": Oh, I learned that long ago.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": All the, all the criminals show up in suits for court. So what do you think I'm used to? So yeah,
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": so nothing man. Hey, the other thing you said, talk about, my mom's a character on the news show, Griselda, that's coming out on a Netflix. I'm not, I don't work for Netflix, but we got contacted before Covid. Somebody heard my mom on a podcast talking from a cop's perspective, having a son that was shot in a line of duty.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": It was a very interesting podcast. She did. So somehow the writers of the Narco series saw or heard were doing research about the eighties and seventies, and my mom happened to be a Cuban cop back then. She, they used her part of the task force, so she went deep undercover. And here I am 10 years old playing with GI Joe's and playing soccer ball.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": And at the YMCA, wonder why my mom's not picking me up by five o'clock, right? So. Crazy story. [00:47:00] She's got a character in the show about the Black Widow, the one that murdered all these freaking drug dealers and stuff, and we're pretty excited. But anyways, they contacted me and said, Hey, we wanna talk to your mom about what?
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": They're like, we're doing a show in Miami called Griselda. And I was like, oh shoot, mom. You're finally gonna get that kitchen you've been wanting. So, so she got her Narcos kitchen, as we say. So it's pretty cool. That starts in, that's amazing. And Sofia Vergara is actually playing, playing the, uh, the hit woman or I guess the gangsta.
Eric Reynolds "Keto Five0": So that would be cool. Wow, that's amazing. So that's really it, man. I mean it's, I got a lot to talk about my brother. Come see us in one of these Cops and Campers event. You can find The brother I found through 23 and me. He's a cop too. It's a crazy story, so it's, oh wow. Join. Join the Fun. See what this diets done to me.
Eric
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119. Dr. Robert Apter and his lawsuit about Ivermectin
Today I talk with Dr. Robert Apter. You may be familiar with his name as he is taking on HHS and the FDA in their stance on Ivermectin. Please enjoy. Like, follow, and share. Thank you.
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119. Dr. Robert Apter
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Dr. Robert Apter: [00:00:00] If you're not a doctor, you're not a nurse, stop it y'all. To the FDA, I think every adult should have ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine in their medicine cabinet so that if they do become sick with covid, they can start early treatment.
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Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you'll be encouraged to question everything
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And [00:02:00] now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you again for joining me on After Hours. I first wanna give a shout out to my Patreon supporters. We have TwoTuff who gives $30 a month. We have an anonymous family donor who gives. $20 and 20 cents a month. We have the Pandemic Reprimando level at $17 and 76 cents a month with Ty, Charles Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Next I have the very, um, very special guest, Dr. Robert Apter. Now you may be familiar with his name because he's suing HHS. Sir, thank you so much for coming on with us Dr. Apter.
Dr. Robert Apter: Thanks so much for having me.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So tell me what puts you in a position where you found, where you found yourself suing, uh, health and Human Services.
Dr. Robert Apter: Well, I've been doing telemedicine for Covid since April of twenty-twenty-one, with an organization called MyFreeDoctor.com. Prior to that, I was an emergency medicine physician for over 40 years. I retired from that in July of twenty-twenty, and then always had an interest in Covid and became more interested in it.
Dr. Robert Apter: So I have now treated more than 15,000 COVID patients. [00:04:00] With a very high rate of success. The way I got involved with the FDA lawsuit, the, the lawsuit was actually developed by the Washington DC law firm of Boyden Gray. Boyden Gray is a man's name. He was the counselor to the first President Bush, and held other high positions in government and has a law firm.
Dr. Robert Apter: And part of their, uh, mission is to limit overreach by the government. So they actually developed the lawsuit. And felt of the, uh, three big agencies, the FDA, NIH, and CDC, that this was the best legal avenue going forward. So then they, they, uh, developed the lawsuit over the suppression of the use of Ivermectin for Covid, and then they were looking for plaintiffs.
Dr. Robert Apter: Well, my license was already under investigation. For using Ivermectin for Covid, and I, I can give you more detail about that. But based on that, uh, I volunteered to be a plaintiff and they selected [00:05:00] me along with Mary Tati Bowden and Paul Merrick. I.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And we've already spoken to Mary Tilly, Bowden. She was amazing to have on.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now, what state were you licensed in where they, uh, started to investigate your license? Because of the use of Ivermectin, which has been a safe medication for many, many years, but it's been as sold to the public as this dangerous horse paste. Like it's, it's absolutely ridiculous. It's safer than Tylenol.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And now they're investigating you in which state?
Dr. Robert Apter: Right. Well, I'm licensed in Arizona and Washington. I've had investigations of me in Arizona, Washington, and Iowa, and they were all, as far as cases, they were all based on two cases. Although they've, the boards have gone on fishing expeditions. They actually started an investigation of me because somebody reported that I had tweeted something where I forwarded a tweet that was all about.
Dr. Robert Apter: Excess mortality that correlated with Covid [00:06:00] vaccinations and I forwarded it and said, it's getting harder to hide the bodies. And so they started investigating me for having said that the, the primary investigations I. Oh, in another case, uh, the Arizona board already was investigating me and then they, they saw that with my free doctor that I listed my home address as my practice address.
Dr. Robert Apter: So they thought that was sufficient reason to investigate my use of controlled substances or my prescription controlled substances. Turns out that I haven't written a controlled substance prescription since I retired from emergency medicine in July of twenty-twenty. So there's nothing to investigate, but they just because.
Dr. Robert Apter: My address for my practice was listed the same as my residence. They thought that was grounds to investigate me.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. And is this the Arizona Medical Board? You know,
Dr. Robert Apter: it's, it's a kangaroo court
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: because you're, you're an MD, correct.
Dr. Robert Apter: Yes. I [00:07:00] missed some of what you said there. Uh,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: this is the Arizona Medical Board, correct?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: 'cause you're an MD and the Arizona is, is one of the states that actually separates the doctors of osteopathy and the medical doctors into different boards.
Dr. Robert Apter: Yes. So I two cases launched four investigations of me. The two cases. One was, uh, a lady that lived in Oregon near Washington, tried to fill a prescription.
Dr. Robert Apter: I wrote for Ivermectin in a Washington pharmacy, then went to an Oregon pharmacy. Ultimately, the, the pharmacist called me and didn't, didn't like what I had to say about Ivermectin for Covid, so he reported me to the me, the medical board. Now, the lady had some significant complications of her illness and did very, very well.
Dr. Robert Apter: And in both cases where complaints came out of patient encounters, the patients did extremely well and wrote affidavits of my support. So it wasn't an issue [00:08:00] about patient care in terms of any outcome. They, they both had excellent outcomes. The other one was a case in Iowa, a lady with significant comorbidities.
Dr. Robert Apter: And I wrote a prescription for her for Ivermectin. Among other things. She tried to fill it, I believe it was at a Walgreens, but it was a standard retail pharmacy and they wouldn't fill it. And both of these cases arose back in 2021 when MyFreeDoctor was having a, allowing us to write Ivermectin prescriptions to any pharmacy.
Dr. Robert Apter: So since then we've changed the policy and we'll only write those prescriptions to vetted pharmacies that we don't know will not turn us into the medical boards for doing so. In this case, in Iowa, the lady, again, she did very, very well. She wrote an affidavit, my support. She was upset because the retail pharmacy, which I believe was Walgreens, refused to fill her prescription.
Dr. Robert Apter: So she filed a formal complaint about that. With the Iowa Pharmacy Board, without [00:09:00] my knowledge of that at all, except the Iowa Pharmacy Board said, oh, this is no problem, but we'll turn it over to the medical board to investigate the doctor. Then the a, the, uh, Iowa Medical Board, in addition to starting an investigation, they copied it to Arizona and Washington where I am licensed.
Dr. Robert Apter: And then they, they launched investigations based on the same case. So I got three investigations because my patient complained that she couldn't get her ivermectin filled. So I was investigated by three states. Iowa ultimately dropped their case because part of part of Iowa's concern in their initial investigation was that I was prescribing without a license, but we were able to prescribe in all 50 states.
Dr. Robert Apter: For Covid under the Prep Act until May of this year when, when the rules changed.[00:10:00]
Dr. Robert Apter: Right. And, and that that s result, that resulted in three licensing board investigations of me, Iowa ultimately recognized that there was, in addition to the issue of. Um, my not having an Iowa license was, was not, uh, significant. That there were no, there was nothing clinically significant. They basically acknowledged it, that there was no, no problem.
Dr. Robert Apter: So I've been in, being investigated for two, almost three years now by the Arizona and Washington medical Boards, and they've gone and looked through as many cases of mine as they can find, and they've, uh, they, they're continuing to pursue this. There hasn't been any determination against me from these boards, but there's been a staff recommendation from Arizona for, uh, as a non non-disciplinary advisory for con continuing medical education that I should take something like a [00:11:00] two-day class on ethics and, and charting because ultimately they could only find issues with, um, medical records.
Dr. Robert Apter: And a lot of those were beyond my control. Um. Washington has now charged me with unprofessional conduct, and then they've cited their unprofessional conduct statute, which actually says that unconventional treatment does not constitute. Unprofessional conduct if no patient has been harmed or put in serious threat of harm.
Dr. Robert Apter: Now, both of these boards, through all their investigations over two or three years now, none of them have identified a single patient who has to complain against me or a single bad outcome.
Dr. Robert Apter: Unprofessional conduct is in the realm of Yes, of like sexual assault of a patient. Right. That is a serious claim.
Dr. Robert Apter: But they, so they detailed their, their findings on about 15 patients of mine, and they were things like [00:12:00] not having a physician-patient relationship, a proper physician-patient relationship because I'd never done a physical exam. Well, of course these are being treated by telemedicine. We have, um. Uh, directed histories and we're able to get photographs if we need to.
Dr. Robert Apter: And if I feel really feel a person needs a physical exam, I will send them to an ER in urgent care or whatever, or their primary doctor that, that actually comes up very uncommonly in the management of Covid. So the, um, uh, yeah, the, they, there were other things like, uh, writing Ivermectin. Uh, for a pregnant patient without getting a pregnancy test, even though the patient had told me there's no way they could get pregnant or they could be pregnant, wow.
Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, there were accusations in some of these cases that I didn't properly instruct them on proper informed consent for, for [00:13:00] things that are being prescribed off label. But all of this is really kangaroo court. I mean, if you go through any doctor's medical records, you can find these kinds of violations.
Dr. Robert Apter: Arizona was concerned about my medical records because I couldn't provide them medical records on a number of patients. Turns out that in 2021, the MyFreeDoctor.com was using an internet company called Medici for all of this, uh, charting and record keeping. And then there was a falling out between Medici and my free doctor.com.
Dr. Robert Apter: And we no longer have access to those records. Medici will not give them to us. And we have told both boards that we would be happy to cooperate in any legal attempt to get these records, but we just don't have them and we can't get them. But that didn't satisfy the Arizona Medical Board. They thought I was, I.
Dr. Robert Apter: Pulling their leg or something. I don't know what they concluded, but that was a big part of the Arizona Medical Board's complaint that I couldn't produce records on these patients. And they also found that I had written a few [00:14:00] prescriptions for, for my wife and for a close friend without keeping medical records.
Dr. Robert Apter: Something that, uh, I think most physicians have probably done at one point or another.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. That's, you know, unfortunately that that is a, a thing that does happen. Um, so it seems like it was quite a buildup for this lawsuit. There was a lot of. And hardships that you've gone through for, for no legitimate reason prior to this lawsuit.
Dr. Robert Apter: Right. And my license is in jeopardy. I've had, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars of legal fees in dealing with the boards. And um, you know, at best I may have to
Dr. Robert Apter: do two days of, I have to say ridiculous continuing medical education, which really. Has no bearing on what I do. So then take us, you, you have to look at the, these boards that have, these boards are filled with people who have never treated a single covid [00:15:00] patient and they're, they're coming after me when I've treated 15,000 patients and with a very, very high rate of success.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So can you, um, take us to the next steps of when you first got in touch with the lawyers that were going to represent you for this case?
Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, in the FDA lawsuit, I have different attorneys for the licensing, uh, than I do for the FDA lawsuit. So are you referring to the FDA lawsuit?
Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah. So they, I got an inquiry from them through, uh, email sources and that they were doing this and, and, you know. Let us know if you're interested and tell us a little bit about why. A, a part of why they, uh, chose me was that the Iowa Board, in that one case that they were investigating, uh, came up with 60 pages of documents and included [00:16:00] referencing the FDA's.
Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, you're not a horse, you're not a Cow, that widespread PR campaign. So they actually cited that in their investigation of me and, and in what they copied to. Uh, Arizona, Washington. So that, I think, was a part of why, uh, the law firm's interested in having me as a plaintiff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You're saying that the Iowa Medical Board used a tweet as evidence against you?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Oh my goodness,
Dr. Robert Apter: no. The Iowa, the Iowa Medical Board in their, the Iowa Medical Board, in their investigation, they. Quoted the PR campaign of the FDA where they said, you're not a horse, you're not a cow. Stop it, y'all. And had the picture of, uh, supposedly of that tech, uh, nuzzling a horse, and the whole thing about the horse medicine.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. It's striking. I just said that that's, that's incredible. And it's striking that they're, they use that at all. They referenced a tweet at [00:17:00] all. I mean, a tweet should never be brought into any investigation as, as it's not an official source. It's propaganda. So take me to the next step. When, um, you finally went to court and it initially got dismissed, didn't it?
Dr. Robert Apter: Yes. The lawsuit was filed in, uh, district court in southern Texas. And, uh, of course, uh, it is routine for the defendants to move to dismiss the case. And the FDA did that. Um, and they did it on the grounds that, that we did not have standing to sue because they had sovereign immunity, which basically is saying they can do whatever they want, doesn't matter.
Dr. Robert Apter: And the, the judge in that district court accepted that argument. So we then appealed that to the fifth Circuit court in New Orleans, and it was just in, uh, September 1st, I think the district court. Basically reversed that decision and said that the FDA is, uh, once they've [00:18:00] approved a drug, they can give information, but they are not allowed to give treatment advice.
Dr. Robert Apter: So they basically said, you're not a doctor, you're not a nurse. Stop it, y'all, to the FDA. But they ba they said that we, that, that the district court was wrong in, in, in, in saying we had no standing, they did not have sovereign immunity at that port on that point. So there was an opportunity that the, the government had to appeal that to the Supreme Court, but they did not.
Dr. Robert Apter: So that's being remanded back to the district court. So it's still an open case and who knows where it's going to go? I think I,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: so it's still, it went from the, can you repeat that? So it went from the fifth court back down to the, the original district. Is that what you had said?
Dr. Robert Apter: Yes. It's gone back to the original district and actually they've been asked to rule again on the issue of standing. Um, I think the [00:19:00] FDA is refiling their brief for dismissal.
Dr. Robert Apter: I. Uh, but the, it, I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like the Circuit Court has already told the district court that, that they're wrong on that issue. So we'll see what happens from here. We hope we get to a point of at least discovery.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I mean, I think it's amazing, and this was big in the news back when this happened.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The FDA lawyer basically said, no. That was just a joke. We, we didn't mean it, it was just a joke. Sorry.
Dr. Robert Apter: Right, and the FDA hasn't changed anything they're doing. So there isn't any, uh, relief of the, uh, inability of patients to get ivermectin quickly. They still can't do that. We have to use. As I said, pharmacies that we've vetted for, for many patients, I would say most of my patients are having to get their medications from an out-of-State Pharmacy, so, or at least a non-local pharmacy.
Dr. Robert Apter: So there's shipping costs and [00:20:00] delays and uh uh, it's really a problem for patients. For that reason, I recommend that. Any patient should have ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine on hand in their medicine cabinet so that they can start it early with the doctor's advice hopefully. And, and, uh, I provide that service through my free doctor.com.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's great. And it's, if I'm not mistaken, it's over-The-counter Ivermectin is over-the-counter in Tennessee and in New Hampshire.
Dr. Robert Apter: I hadn't heard New Hampshire, but it is in Tennessee. But I've also had patients that have trouble getting it in Tennessee, but I'm not prescribing in those two states, uh, any longer. So I'm not following that closely there. I'm just prescribing now for Arizona and Washington.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Are you having a tough time finding places in Arizona that will prescribe, that will dispense it?
Dr. Robert Apter: [00:21:00] Yes, it's uh, we are usually using an out-of-State Pharmacy for our Arizona patients. I know there are some in-State that will, will fill those prescriptions, but, uh, our company is favoring an out-of-State Pharmacy right now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. I recently had a disagreement, if you will, with a, a fellow physician who, um.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Believes that Ivermectin is a dangerous product and doesn't want his patients to get it. And it's just like, have you done any research? Do you know anything about this medication? How it's, it's one of the safest medications on the face of the planet. It's supremely safer than paxlovid. It's safer than any vaccine, any vaccine, let alone the Covet jabs, which aren't vaccines.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's is mind-blowing.
Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah, it is, it's certainly safer than Tylenol or Ibuprofen or, um, Advil. Um, uh, for example, there's [00:22:00] 450 deaths from overdose of Tylenol in this country per year. Approximately. There are zero deaths from, there actually has not been a reported death from overdose of Ivermectin in the world medical literature.
Dr. Robert Apter: There are something like 16 or 17 deaths per year in association with Ivermectin reported, but they're thought to be, you know, an, an interaction of that with a high parasitic load where it's being used in treatment of parasites. I had one patient mistakenly take five times the dose I prescribed and got to feeling a little dizzy, but had no serious problems.
Dr. Robert Apter: So the, the, the, uh, safety profile is, is much greater than, uh, than other medications that are commonly prescribed.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Did this patient accidentally take a five-day course in one day?
Dr. Robert Apter: No, uh, the reason that it came about, because [00:23:00] our prescriptions are written for three milligram tablets, which is what is commercially available, but then when you go to a compounding pharmacy, they can compound it into a tablet or capsule of whatever strength. So the patient had 15 milligram capsules, but read the original prescription that was for three milligram tablets rather than the instructions that were on the bottle.
Dr. Robert Apter: And so she took five times the amount, she took, you know, five times, 15 milligrams.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm sure she felt great afterwards. Other than the slight dizziness.
Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah. Well there were, there were pharmacokinetic studies done way back in, I think 2003 with with Ivermectin, where they were giving people single doses of 120 milligrams or 60 milligrams three times a week, and they had no problems with that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now have you looked into using Ivermectin for other diagnoses for other conditions?
Dr. Robert Apter: I really haven't. I, I know some people are using it for cancer, but I'm not [00:24:00] involved in cancer treatment and, uh, I think that's, there's less information about that, but that plus Phenvendazole seems to be helping some patients with cancer, but I, I'm, I'm not. Completely knowledgeable about that. It's not something I use.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Sure, understood. Um, just wanted to see if you had heard of any of that. 'cause I, I had found some research papers on PubMed that talk about ivermectin hitting a common pathway for cancers and hitting and used, used for other specific cancers, you know, certain breast cancers, certain bladder cancers, certain pancreatic cancers.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Uh, and it seems to have, for those specific case studies or those small trials, it seemed to work pretty well.
Dr. Robert Apter: Right. I, I've come to, um, question everything in allopathic medicine, frankly, after my experience with Covid and seeing how corrupted and manipulated the data is, and, uh, the, you know, [00:25:00] more and more doctors are becoming protocol doctors, which is a really terrible thing. Uh. You know, you follow the protocol and, and, and don't pay attention to the patient.
Dr. Robert Apter: Just follow the protocol and you'll get better. I've had doctors say that to me. Wow. And, um, I wouldn't go back to that doctor. Um, you know, when I treat patients, especially when early on when, when Covid was more virulent, I'm following them very closely. And if people aren't doing well for whatever reason, then I make look at whether there's something that should be adjusted to the treatment.
Dr. Robert Apter: And you, you don't just follow the protocol, but that's what doctors are doing now and, and they're being forced to, they're being forced to by insurance companies and by corporate medicine that's monitoring whether they're following guidelines and protocols. And it doesn't matter whether they're applicable to their patients, that's what they're supposed to follow.
Dr. Robert Apter: And then they do, and then they do better financially. 'cause there, there are financial incentives to follow the guidelines and protocols. Uh. And, and then they won't get into trouble with, [00:26:00] uh, their, their hiring agencies, uh, or their licensing boards or the corporate people that really don't know medicine, but follow the protocol.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's one thing I've noticed. So I spent most of my time practicing medicine in the military where money didn't matter, and if you could justify what you did, you could do it. And I, I've spent a short time now in the civilian world and it seems like there's a lot more monetarily based. Practice of medicine than evidence-based based practice of medicine.
Dr. Robert Apter: Well, and, and I've come to the conclusion that the whole evidence-based medicine thing is a bit of a sham, or it's a, it's a, it's an illusion because the evidence is corrupted. So, uh, the whole notion that random, large-scale randomized controlled trials are the only valid type of evidence it is. Uh. It's a lie, and it's a lie that's promoted by big pharma and [00:27:00] big government who are in collusion with big pharma because it's only big pharma that can do those studies.
Dr. Robert Apter: But they can manipulate those studies just as well as, as other types of studies. They, they really are not more valid than other types of evidence. Um, you can do observational studies if you control well for, for all the variables or, or you can look at real, real-world data. My favorite example, uh, is, uh, what I consider to be the greatest public health success in the history of mankind that you never heard about or most people never heard about.
Dr. Robert Apter: And that's the, um, use of ivermectin for Covid in Uttar, Pradesh and India in twenty-twenty-one. Are you familiar with that story?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Uh, I've heard a bit about it, but please go on.
Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah. P. R. Kauri's written quite a bit about it. Um. So in twenty-twenty-one, of course, we had a big surge in this country in early twenty-twenty-one.
Dr. Robert Apter: And in [00:28:00] India it wasn't quite at the same time, but also in early twenty-twenty-one. Uttar Pradesh is the most populous state of India. So it's in Northeast India's 240 million people. So about two-thirds of the population of the United States, just in that one state of India. And in much more crowded and poorer conditions.
Dr. Robert Apter: They were having a lot of success anecdotally with Ivermectin, uh, early in 2021 and late 2020, and they had support of that from their government there. So in April of 2021, they started a program of community outreach with something like 140,000 caseworkers going door to door, distributing early treatment kits.
Dr. Robert Apter: To anybody that was sick or adult family members. So they had this kit and I think there was more than one version of it, but I've seen pictures where, uh, and data, the most common thing they had was of course, of ivermectin and doxycycline, plus vitamin C, [00:29:00] vitamin D, zinc, and they had Tylenol and a thermometer and an oximeter in there.
Dr. Robert Apter: And what do you think that kit cost to put together, including the oximeter? Probably less than 20 bucks. It was $2 and 90 cents according to what I read. And so they widely distributed these? Yeah, they widely distributed these, and they basically eradicated Covid from Uttar Pradesh. So by September of 2021, they, they, they had a month where they averaged less than one death per day.
Dr. Robert Apter: In a coun in a state of 240 million people, and they were down to about 30 cases per day. Now, at the same time, we were getting two or 3000 deaths per day, and I think we peaked around 5,000 deaths per day in the United States. We had 200,000 cases per day and they had 30, and they actually had declared half the districts in Uttar [00:30:00] Pradesh to be virus-free.
Dr. Robert Apter: Now, all this information has been pretty well wiped off the internet. You can you, if you really dig, you can find a little bit written about it here and there, but in, in the times of India. But if, and if you, uh, it is interesting. I, I searched this on w Wikipedia and they actually had an article in Wikipedia about COVID and Uttar Pradesh, and they had a very detailed timeline.
Dr. Robert Apter: Of the, what was going on in the pandemic and what treatment was being used, and it absolutely stopped in April of 21. So they started with the beginning of the pandemic, and then this article has nothing beyond April of 2021, which is when they instituted that program.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. That's incredible that they would just cover up that like, it's like they want to destroy lives.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's like they want people to die from this.
Dr. Robert Apter: Well, it, it certainly seems that way. It's, um, [00:31:00] I, you, you, you can't look at all the things that have been done wrong from, uh, truly people's health that have been done wrong by the public health agencies since the start of the pandemic. Almost everything they've done has been wrong and it has killed people.
Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, I think the data is correct that has, that has looked at. Um, the mortality data, it seems like the best data I've seen is estimates that maybe one in a thousand people that get the, or one per thousand injection causes a death in the Covid vaccine, and that there may be 17 or somewhere between 15 and 20 million excess deaths from the Covid vaccine worldwide.
Dr. Robert Apter: I think that's, that's correct. Plus the suppression of early treatment. 90% of the deaths that we've had from Covid were certainly preventable by early treatment. And you know, in my case, I, I started in 20 April of twenty-twenty-one doing telemedicine for Covid [00:32:00] and not having, you know, been a primary doctor in my career either.
Dr. Robert Apter: I was working in emergency medicine. So I was a little unsure of myself at first, and I was, and, and the protocols were less. Well-developed at that time. One of the things that I. Uh, I did a little differently from some of the doctors, so I couldn't see why an antibiotic was included in some of their early treatment protocols, so I didn't do that at first, in the first month that I treated patients, I did have two patients that didn't respond well.
Dr. Robert Apter: They were both very high risk, like one was eighty-four, one was sixty-two, and a cancer survivor. And, and, and had, and the sixty-two-year-old also came to me late in the illness. So neither one of those two patients responded very well to my treatment. They kind of smoldered along and when their oxygen level dipped, their families took them to the er, and then they got admitted, and then they both died in the hospital.
Dr. Robert Apter: So I looked at those protocols and I, and I changed them a bit. One thing is I added an antibiotic. That was one thing I hadn't done for those two patients. [00:33:00] And, and then since then, I've not had anybody I've treated die to my knowledge. And, and they almost universally do well if they're following the recommendations I give them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You had mentioned something earlier about research that I want to kind of go back to for just a second. You had talked about, you know, how nowadays everyone needs randomized controlled study, you know, needs these meta-analysis to have to, to be able to call anything evidence. And, and I would say there's probably some truth to that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, cautiously say there's some truth to that because like, we wanna make sure things are, are safe, but I think we should as doctors. Listen to and watch for any safety signal, any small study that shows a significant safety signal. I think that should be huge on the list and, and we're not seeing that,
Dr. Robert Apter: well, it's been evident from very early on, from the VAERS database, the Vaccine Adversity reporting system, that there are huge safety signals. [00:34:00] With, um, with the shock with Covid vaccines. Yeah. It's, and yet it's horrible. They, they have been ignored. Uh, I looked at some, and, and even the governor's even corrupted that database and hid some of the adverse events from that database, refused to add cases, uh, that were reported.
Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, early on. I looked at that data and uh, looked at the deaths per. A shot that were reported in the database in VAERS and compared to influenza, which had been given hundreds of millions of times to patients, uh, the rate was about 150 times greater for deaths, uh, being reported per vaccine for the COVID-19.
Dr. Robert Apter: So that's obviously a very strong signal, and, and we don't, I'm not even sure anymore that the flu vaccine is safe, but it's certainly not as dangerous as the Covid vaccine.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Oh, absolutely. And, and the DMED data, the Defense Military Epidemiologic database, that is [00:35:00] a database that the government holds. Uh, and it's all, it shows all of the active duty military and their, the symptoms or the, the problems that they have, and they've taken that entire database down, changed it because of a, a so-called Glitch and then put it back up and changed every single safety signal and reduced it from hundreds of percent down to 3% in testicular cancer for, for instance.
Dr. Robert Apter: Right. I think there's a lot of data to suggest that, uh, the covid vaccines are carcinogenic or causing, uh, what we call turbo cancers and increased rates of cancer. Um, it hasn't been as thoroughly studied as, as, uh, we'd like, but because the government doesn't wanna study it, they don't want, they don't want anybody to see that data.
Dr. Robert Apter: So we rely a lot on, on anecdotal things and data coming out of other countries that are less, less corrupted and less hidden than what we have here.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it blows my mind how so many doctors are spiritually [00:36:00] blind to the fact of the safety signals with the covid shot. But then they'll turn around and say, well, I don't want my patient to get a dangerous medication like Ivermectin.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's, it's mind-boggling. And it's, it's a PSYOPs that's been done. It's a psychological operation and it's worked. It's worked to the nth degree.
Dr. Robert Apter: And even those doctors who, uh, recognize that the government narrative is, is a lie, are, are unable to fight the organizations that they depend on for their livelihood. Um, by going against the narrative I.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and for any doctor out there that that's questioning and wondering, you have to ask yourself, and this is the time to do it, because at some point it may be too late, but are you gonna sell your soul for money or are you gonna treat patients the right way and use evidence-based medicine.
Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah, I, I hear about young people that wanted to [00:37:00] go into medicine now that are having second thoughts and, and, uh, having a real difficult time with reconciling what they're seeing in, uh, medicine and what they would have to, uh, deal with in terms of corporate medicine and, and their. Goals. So that's, it's creating a real conundrum for a lot of young people and and that's unfortunate for us.
Dr. Robert Apter: And unfortunate for them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And, and if I had to do this over, I probably would've gone more of an, uh, a different route, maybe a naturopathic doctor. Um, as a do, it's a different philosophy to begin with, but it's still not different enough to, to be outside of that and be able to see patients, patients who, they're in this system where they're trapped in having to pay for.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: For healthcare with an insurance company. But then if I wanna open up a place myself, I would benefit from not accepting insurance because there's so many regulations that go along with that so that I'm not beholden to insurance companies and eventually beholden to the government.
Dr. Robert Apter: [00:38:00] Right. MyFreeDoctor was established on that, uh, principle. We do not accept insurance, but it's all donation-based too. It's not really, uh, a very profitable way for, uh, a doctor to, to practice. It is, uh, to a large extent volunteer.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And, and people don't understand like how much it. How much time, effort, and dollars you give up to become a doctor and it's hard to just, to start accepting chickens and eggs again.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Uh, I wish we could do that, but I, you know, I'd like to be able to provide for my family too, and not just chickens and eggs. We got plenty of those.
Dr. Robert Apter: Well, when you look at things like the NIH, IHI think, I think they have, what, $50 billion a year under their budget. Um, and they're funding all this stuff to support big pharma, when really that's public money. Big pharma should be paying for [00:39:00] their own studies and their own investigational work. Uh, and that money should be spent on things that, that are not so profitable, like naturopathic and homeopathic medicine.
Dr. Robert Apter: But instead, those, those branches of medicine have been under active attack for a hundred years now, ever since the Flexner report. Yeah, I just got off. I, I now consider myself a recovering allopathic doctor, so I, I don't trust anything in allopathic medicine anymore after, because of my experience with Covid and the regulations and the corruption of the data, the corruption of the, of the guidelines, the corruption of the protocols, the corruption of what's in the medical journals.
Dr. Robert Apter: It's all corrupted to fit a narrative where there's, there's censorship and propaganda in order to promote. The interests of big pharma, big tech, and big government. And so I'm trying to learn as much as I can about alternative medicine, but I'm not in a general active practice anymore. I'm not trying to, I [00:40:00] I'm really at a point where I could be retired, so, uh, uh, I'm in a little different position.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And I just, before we had this talk, and I'll probably publish it the week before this talk, but I was on with Dale Saran. And when I was talking with Dale Saran, he was saying that the government, so not just the FDA, not just the CDC, but also the DOD has immense contracts with these pharmaceutical companies.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so these pharmaceutical companies are getting hand O money hand over fist to do research with FDA, CDC, HHS, and the DOD. And the problem with this is unless they're developing weapons, there should be no DOD money going to them, which makes you think if their contracts are bigger than Boeing, bigger than McDonnell, Douglas, then they're probably making weapons that are bigger than the F-thirty-five.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Bigger than nuclear weapons, bigger than missiles.[00:41:00]
Dr. Robert Apter: Well, the, the pharmaceutical industry is actually, um, a, uh, spends more on lobbying than, than the military. Or the, the military-related industries. It's the largest single, um, contributor to, uh, lobbying and congressional and, uh, governmental camp campaigns.
Dr. Robert Apter: And there seems to have been a lot of, uh, of defense department involvement in the whole covid response. If you read what's written by Paul Alexander and Sasha Latikova, it seems this, it seems like the entire, uh. Covid public health response was actually orchestrated by the military. I don't know that for a fact, but I don't discount it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I've had Sasha Latipova on my show before and also, um, for about a year, I was reading this line in, it's called [00:42:00] Fragmentary Order number Five, and it's a, it's a order that the military put out and one of the portions of that, it says, and this is a paraphrase that. I'm gonna read what I thought it said, and I thought it said that Commanders are required to make sure there's enough FDA approved vaccine on hand to give to their service members.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But in fact, after reading that multiple times over the course of a year, I finally realized, and this is what my frame reference did to it, this is my, I put my thoughts into it, what it actually said. It actually said that. Commanders will ensure there is enough DoD approved vaccine available on hand to provide to the service members.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, the DoD is not in the business of approving vaccines.
Dr. Robert Apter: I didn't hear the end of what you said there.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The DOD is not in the [00:43:00] business of approving vaccines for anyone, so why would it say DOD approved vaccines on hand?
Dr. Robert Apter: Right? So you, you have to ask, you know, what's really behind all this? Why? Why are we doing things that are killing people and that is giving them vaccines that are killing people or so-called vaccines, which are really, you know, genetic altering injections.
Dr. Robert Apter: And why are we suppressing early treatment with mul, with, uh, multiple repurposed drugs, which in my opinion and experiences should be the standard of care. Well, I, I think you might be interested in the story of how I got, uh. Part of how I got interested in Covid, uh, I, somebody very close to me, uh, back in June of twenty-twenty, so this was before vaccines, this is early in the pandemic, uh, became very ill with Covid.
Dr. Robert Apter: I was still working in emergency medicine then, and, [00:44:00] uh, by very ill, I mean she, within forty-eight hours of onset, she had an oxygen saturation of eighty-two percent. And wouldn't go to the hospital. Uh, we had a lot of stuff for treatment at home. She, we were able to treat her with CPAP, which would normalize her oximetry, and she was dependent on that for about forty-eight hours.
Dr. Robert Apter: But I got her started on, um, what was then the Zelenko protocol was, uh. Zithromax and hydroxychloroquine and zinc. Uh, she started that about twenty-four hours after onset, and in another twenty-four hours hadn't improved and was hitting that oxygen saturation of eighty-two percent. She, she described it as being, like having an alien inside her body and she was convinced she was gonna die, but she still refused to go to the er.
Dr. Robert Apter: So at that time I was not, not convinced she was responding to that, those three medications. And we were just [00:45:00] starting to hear about Ivermectin. There was really, FLCCC hadn't come out with any protocols at that point in time, and there was very little written, I'd seen a, a few anecdotal reports about it, so I thought that's something we should try.
Dr. Robert Apter: I, I wrote her a prescription. I had to say it was for worms to get her the ivermectin and, but I didn't really know how to dose it at that point in time. There was nothing out there written about dosing it. So I thought, well, we should just give her what's used for worms, which would be a single 12 milligram dose.
Dr. Robert Apter: Now today, I would give her 30 milligrams a day for a couple of days, and then 15 milligrams a day until she's better. Some people would give her forty-five milligrams a day for five days, but I gave her a single dose of 12 milligrams, and then unbeknownst to me, she didn't really trust it, so she only took six milligrams.
Dr. Robert Apter: And then a few hours after that, she started to feel better, like maybe she wasn't going to die, so she [00:46:00] took the other six milligrams so that that actually seemed to turn her around and she recovered completely from that episode. So I, at that point thought, this is a miracle drug. We, we saw this kind of miraculous turnaround.
Dr. Robert Apter: Early on with the original bio weapon and some of the early variants, I don't, I haven't been seeing that more recently. I think actually Hydroxychloroquine may be more effective than Ivermectin with the current variants, but back, I still use the Ivermectin, but back then we were seeing some anecdotal reports that were just amazing like that, and I thought, you know, this is the most miraculous medicine I've used in my career.
Dr. Robert Apter: I've never seen a patient who is dying, take a few pills and recover completely. I mean, that's insane. And so, uh, but we were seeing that kind of thing. And it, it's hard to deny that [00:47:00] when you see it. Maybe. I know that's just one case, but there's a lot of, there's a lot of data about the benefit of Ivermectin and of course.
Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, there's probably a hundred published studies or more on, on Ivermectin. Maybe all but two or three of them show show benefit, but one of the tricks the pharmaceutical industry does with the complicity of big media, I. Is if they'll, they'll game the studies in such a way that they're structured so that they get closed before they reach statistical significance.
Dr. Robert Apter: Most of the, uh, the two or three studies that did not show benefit of ivermectin, supposedly, generally they were showing benefit, but it didn't reach statistical significance. And so the study gets terminated so that it doesn't show statistical significance, and then they trumpet it as proving that ivermectin is not effective.
Dr. Robert Apter: When it hasn't done any such thing, all it did was fail to reach statistical significance of benefit.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Another tactic I've seen them use and then that gets trumpeted through the meat. [00:48:00] Another tactic that I've seen them use is they will wait until the patient is so sick, so late in the course that ivermectin is no longer effective because it's, it's at a different point in the illness where it's a cytokine storm now rather than whatever toxin it is in that the ivermectin helped prevent from binding.
Dr. Robert Apter: Right, and, and using single drug, uh, comparisons, that, that doesn't really show the benefit of, uh, there seems to be a synergy, for example, between ivermectin and doxycycline and between, uh, hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. So that's not being picked up by these studies at all.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Do you have any other patient stories where you saw a significant change in a patient, like, like that one you just described?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I love those stories. They're amazing.
Dr. Robert Apter: Well, I've had, I've had a lot of patients come to me who were hypoxic and then they turned around, although I've been using, you know, uh, combinations of, of, of drugs [00:49:00] for them. I think one of the, one of the biggest factors in the, uh, media collusion with Big Pharma has been the whole, uh, legalization of direct-to-consumer advertising.
Dr. Robert Apter: So that means that. Uh, I forget when that was started in the United States, but there's only a couple of countries in the world that allow that, of course in the United States being one. And because of that, uh, the pharmaceutical companies are a huge source of revenue for the media through that advertising.
Dr. Robert Apter: And that's a big part of why me is. So on board with the, the narrative for big Pharma.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, sir, thank you so much for coming on. Is there anything else that you wanna leave us with a way that people can get ahold of you if they need to or if people wanna support you?
Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah, I would encourage, as I said, I, I think every adult should have ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine in their medicine cabinet so that if they do [00:50:00] become sick with Covid, they can.
Dr. Robert Apter: Start early treatment, which is so, so important in preventing it from, from worsening, and uh, I can help them through MyFreeDoctor.com. I'm personally only licensed in Arizona and Washington, but we have doctors that are licensed in all 50 states. So it's MyFreeDoctor.com. You can, uh, go online, find us and register as a patient and get help.
Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, you can get help to prepare for covid and preventive medication. Uh, and we treat long covid as well.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you. And vaccine injury. Yeah. Long covid and vaccine injury are the same symptoms and treated very similarly. Yes. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much for, for your stand. It's an honor to be on this side of this battle with you, uh, shoulder to shoulder.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I appreciate all that you're doing and, and I hope that, uh, you have success in these outcomes and, uh, [00:51:00] and the losses that you're in. Actually allowed me to be contacted by some lawyers who, who want to sue various entities on my behalf and make me a plaintiff in a similar incidence like you're in because of what the FDA said and how it's just a joke.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's just a joke. Uh, and so I, I greatly appreciate the position that you've, you've put yourself into with all the difficulty that comes along with it. And I, I certainly understand that and appreciate your stance.
Dr. Robert Apter: Well, thanks very much, Sam. Uh. Thanks for having me on. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you. God bless.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there due to uniform of the day, the full armor of God. Let's all make courage more contagious than fear.[00:52:00]
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118. Suing The Federal Government With Dale Saran, Esq.
Today I talk with Dale Saran, Esq. about his lawsuits against the Federal Government. You may notice some glitches in this episode. The recording system crashed multiple times and this episode is what was able to be salvaged. Please enjoy. Like, follow, and share. Thank you.
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118. Dale Saran
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Dale Saran, Esq.: [00:00:00] If you look at the top five DoD contractors, you know, back in the day, it was always, it's like McDonnell Douglas or Boeing, you know, it's aircraft manufacturers or Raytheon, you know, weapons manufacturers, you know, have always been the biggest DoD contract. You look at the pharmaceutical industry, while huge by comparison to like Boeing, Donald Douglas or whatever, we're pretty small potatoes in the world of government contract.
Dale Saran, Esq.: It's much harder to sell poison to the populace on its own merit. It's a lot easier when you can force it into them and the U. S. government buys all of it. And that's what happened to with these gene therapy products. They were government contracts, open ended, complete liability immunity. I mean, you know, everybody's kind of covered this in the public.
Dale Saran, Esq.: It turned Pfizer from, you know, like vaulted them all the way to near the top. They're not one of the top DoD contractors. And once that happens, it's basically you're getting your immune system, you know, on a license agreement. It's like those software license [00:01:00] agreements booster every six months. It's your immune system on a license agreement that the DoD has with Pfizer.[00:02:00]
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything.
Nurse Kelly: And to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now, to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you for joining me again. I first want to thank all my Patreon supporters. We have Too Tough, who gives 30 a month. We have an anonymous family donor giving 20. 20 a month. We have the Plandemic Reprimando at 17. 76 a month with Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr. Anna, [00:03:00] Frank, Brian, Shell, and Brantley.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: At 10, we have Kevin and Patton Bev. The Refined Not Burned at 5 a month with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary and Amanda. Addison Mulder is giving 3 a month and Frank is giving 1. 50. And Encourage is Contagious at 1 a month with Jay, SpessNasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, and Caleb.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I also want to remind everybody to go check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours where you can get some of the best beef that I've ever tasted and probably the best beef you've ever tasted as well. Now, next we have a very special guest. Dale Saran is an attorney.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: He's a, he's an attorney and he's, he's old school. He, he was the one in Dover Schrumsfeld that won against the Secretary of Defense back in 2004. Dale, it's great to have you on today.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Thanks, Sam. Great to be on. [00:04:00] How are you? Doing
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: great. And I'm encouraged to know that there is someone that did fight back when, when I was still in, in college, there was someone fighting, and now that same man is still here fighting and leading the charge.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Tell us what's going on and, and what you're doing now.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Well, it's um, you know, it's uh, interesting. It's like deja vu all over again, to quote Yogi Berra. Hold on. I got a cat yelling at me. Hey, shut up. Um, but, uh, my cat's going nuts. Um, the, um, yeah, the, the frustrating thing, I guess, would be, you know, the first part, um, when I got started with this, uh, you know, Todd calendar, a gentleman, you know, an attorney, you and I both know well, reached out to me.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Um, and I was, I was doing completely other things, you know, um, and, um, Todd reached out to me and had heard of me from the Dovey Rumsfeld suits and I'll just, um, I was there. I was a part of it for sure. I did some work on it, but the lead counsel for that was a gentleman named Lou Michaels, who some, who some folks may know he's still [00:05:00] around and doing some other lawsuits related to his litigation specialties.
Dale Saran, Esq.: But, um, um, Todd reached out to me and, uh, You know, kind of roped me in and it was frustrating because we couldn't get this stopped. I think, you know, you were, you were there. I'm not telling anything you don't know, but some of your listeners might not. You were part of that original crew, really. And we were trying to stop this whole thing from happening, you know?
Dale Saran, Esq.: And then, and it was frustrating, um, to, to see that ball get rolling and know, you know, that there was, once it got going, it was going to be hard to stop. So we, we fought for, you know, injunctive relief. We've still got one case going there for declaratory relief, which is. Basically, just a declaration from a federal court that, hey, these are all the laws they violated.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And so that case is still alive. That's in Texas. But, um, I think Congress did the D. O. D. a favor in, uh, rescinding the mandate. When they did so, it kind of let the D. O. D. off the hook in a lot of the litigation. Uh, some of those cases are still out there. But, uh, what it meant for, [00:06:00] uh, myself, for me, Brandon Johnson, and Annie Meyer, who, who have all had our own individual lawsuits as well as larger class action lawsuits in this, in this whole fight against the military vaccine mandates.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And, um, uh, once the rescind happened, we all thought that that opened the door immediately to. Um, probably that the injunctive relief was going to be in the past now and, um, would be mooted. And that now we needed to get, um, you know, correction. And that meant, you know, uh, getting all the folks who'd been wrongfully kicked out.
Dale Saran, Esq.: You know, it was not a legal order. It was an illegal. Um, that was clear from the beginning. And so now we had to start working on getting relief for people. And so we filed three lawsuits in the court of federal claims, which is a specialized court, kind of a weird court, but, um, a specialized court, federal court that hears back military back bay claims it has for.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Since just after the, uh, uh, Mexican American war, that's what it [00:07:00] was set up for, it was for veterans. Fundamentally, it's a veterans court. And, um, we filed there and we've got three class actions ongoing. And that's really, uh, kinda, you know, been in the news a little bit lately since the army, as you know, is, is dying on recruiting numbers.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What are the names of those cases?
Dale Saran, Esq.: So, um, let's check the big board here behind me. Um, that is, uh, Botello. Across the top there, you see the three. Those are the three names of the lawsuits. Harkins is named for the lead plaintiff, Chris Harkins, who was about six months from retiring. Sorry, somebody's being insistent.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Um, that's named for, uh, uh, Chris Harkins. Who's a Coastie who, um, you believe this guy? Unbelievable. This is what happens when you have a bunch of these things. Um, that's named for Chris Harkins. Who's a Coastie who was six months from retirement, six months was 20 when they kicked him out. And then, um, we've got Botello, which is [00:08:00] named for, um, uh, Jeremiah Botello, who is a, uh, Uh, Arizona, um, National Guard Chaplain, and then, um, and he was also part of some of the lawsuits.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And then the final lawsuit is, uh, named for Nick Bassin. So we have Bassin, Botello, and Harkins. And Bassin is for the, uh, folks who got straight up kicked out. That's for the active duty folks who, who got, um, thrown off of active duty. So the reason we've got three different lawsuits is because that's just the nature of how the D.
Dale Saran, Esq.: O. D. budgeting. And, and how the Court of Claims works, how you can basically state a claim. So we had to. We had to kind of split them up into three different suits because of legal authorities for each of them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And how big are the plaintiff lists in each one of these? Because if I'm not mistaken, one of these is enormous, isn't it?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Or are they all enormous?
Dale Saran, Esq.: So we don't have good numbers. You know, the DOD is never entirely forthcoming. I mean, you know how it goes trying to get an answer out of them. A straight answer is [00:09:00] about impossible. We picked the numbers from some different congressional hearings. The, uh, There's a post article or something where the DOD admitted to, I think in their own press release, they said that they canned 69, 000 National Guardsmen.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And then, yeah, 69, 000, at least. And then there's, there's some other articles that put the number at like, there's another one where they're like, yeah, we lost like 85, 000 from the Army or something. So you can't, it's like, well, wait a minute. Is that just from the Army or like? What are we talking about here?
Dale Saran, Esq.: So it's tough to get a straight set, but I would say that roughly speaking, the BASN case for those active duty who were discharged, we get a pretty good sense that the number of active duty discharged was probably a little less than 10, 000, probably somewhere in the range of 9, 000 ish. Um, and then the Battello folks, the national guardsmen who either.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Um, dropped [00:10:00] or, you know, placed involuntarily into the, into a non drilling status or whatever that that number just basically the people that cut funding for that number is probably between 70, I don't know, 70, 80, 000 ish again, you know, that that number is even tougher to. Get, get an answer to. And then the Coasties, um, you know, that lawsuit, I know there were about, um, oh, we saw some number of how many people total filed for RFRA claims and all that.
Dale Saran, Esq.: We know everybody there that that whole process was a sham. So everybody got denied. But, um, you know, that's another lawsuit that's likely to be a few thousand anyway. So I think roughly all of them together are probably. Comfortably in the range of, of a hundred thousand servicemen and women who got, who got either, you know, involuntarily discharged, uh, dropped to the ready reserves or just they cut their funding and we're like, that's it.
Dale Saran, Esq.: We, you know, we cut [00:11:00] ties with you. It's pretty, pretty amazing. We think it's the largest post Cold II drawdown, like where, where there, what, where it wasn't a, A planned exit, exodus of people where there was something like this, where it was just one day, there were this many people and the next day there were that many gone, you know, I mean, it was, it's a huge number, huge.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And when you, when you look at it that way, you're like, wow, you know, it wasn't, you know, sold as a drawdown, but it essentially was an enormous drawdown. I mean, it's just mind blowing. And yeah, we don't know, well,
Dale Saran, Esq.: congressional approval, you know, which is the interesting part of it. It was just the DOD did it on its own.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I don't know if any of your numbers are including. People who were, because I know for a fact, I've been told independently by two different, uh, service members that here at Fort Huachuca, in fact, they, they kick people out as refusal to train, because there's a schoolhouse here, and the [00:12:00] reason they refuse to train, they didn't actually refuse to train, they weren't allowed into the schoolhouse.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Because they didn't get the shot. And so they were kicked out as a refusal to train. I don't know if there's a place for those people anywhere in your, your lawsuits.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Yeah. I mean, there is in my head and, and I've often said, you know, when, when I've been asked about this publicly, I've tried to make clear that I don't believe the DOD's numbers for an instant.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Like it's a vast undercounting of the real effects of what happened of the policy, because I mean, I, I just had a call this morning with a possible, you know, client who heard about this. And he said, well, I don't know if I really qualify because I just, when my ETS came up, I had, I was planning on re enlisting, but they were like, well, you can't, unless you're willing to get the VAX, you know, because you're non deployable.
Dale Saran, Esq.: I mean, they had this, this sort of self referential circle where they define things a certain way and then you didn't meet the definition and it meant you were, like you said, you're like a failure to [00:13:00] train or, you know, there were a lot of those. So the real numbers of. Of people who left, I would estimate are probably on, I'll say double, I think the total number is probably double.
Dale Saran, Esq.: So if there were a hundred thousand that we can point to and say, these were people who were kicked out, who went unwillingly, you know, who said, I don't want to go. And then, you know, we're involuntarily gone the voluntary numbers. And by voluntary, I am using my quotey fingers here intentionally because those are people who were coerced out.
Dale Saran, Esq.: They were given an ultimatum fundamentally, and they were like, nah, okay, I'm out. And I'll bet those numbers of people who didn't re enlist or otherwise are retirement eligible, or just allowed their discharges to expire, you know, who otherwise would have stayed, I'll bet that number's, I'll bet it's another 100, 000.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Nobody will, the DOD will never admit that. And they can't for legal reasons and other reasons. Um, but I guarantee you that [00:14:00] that number is, is, uh, at least another half and maybe as high as double. It wouldn't surprise me at all.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, I, I fall into that category. I was going to stay in the reserves until retirement and, and the hardships that they put me through just made it too impossible for me to stay.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And the crazy part is I had a letter also signed by eight congressmen asking if I could get out two months early and instead of approving that, the secretary of defense Wormuth said. No, you are going to stay until the end of your, you know, your, your contract.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Change of pretension. I, you know, I have experience that maybe dispositionally suited me to this and not just the Anthrax experience, but that arose out of, you know, I was a, I was a big green machine guy.
Dale Saran, Esq.: You know, I joined, uh, I was, I'm a little ashamed to admit this, but I'll say it anyway. You know, I was part of the Top Gun generation. So I was a junior in high school when Top Gun came out in 1986. And so I ran, like we all did, you know, like, woo! Kissing Kelly McGillis! [00:15:00] Yes! You know, and, and we're going to get a, we thought we were going to get issued a motorcycle, and all that stuff, you know.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And, and so, I thought I was a, you know, a lifer. So I, I came in as part of that generation, and I was a pilot, and then, you know, wound up being a lawyer. But I still had in my head, I still had the idea, all the ideas that most of the people do about when you join. You know, I thought about what I thought the institution was.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And, um, then I became a, uh, I interned as a prosecutor while I was at law school and I, and that was kind of cool. And then at Camp Lejeune, and then I wound up in Okinawa, Japan. And my first assignment was actually as a criminal defense attorney. And that was a real eye opener because you suddenly find yourself defending.
Dale Saran, Esq.: You know, in many cases people, the, the 1 percent or 5 percent or whatever you want to call them, you know, knuckleheads largely, but you know, there's a, in the military who get themselves in trouble, but you know, there's a big chunk of those folks who are, you know, otherwise decent folks who find themselves in tough [00:16:00] circumstances, but it wasn't long until I realized just how, just how, uh, bad and how much pressure and what kinds of forces the military can bring to bear on people that doesn't like.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Yeah. Even if they're innocent and that was a real eye opener that made me that made me look at everything a lot differently You know I can tell you some funny stories from when I was a pilot like I was the duty officer one night and a guy Another captain got called, went to the barracks and he smelled weed and he kicked in someone's door and, you know, caught them, you know, red handed.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Oh my God, you know, and I kind of laugh about it now. They were smoking weed in the barracks. I laugh, I can laugh about it now. But at the time, like, as a lawyer, I can think about it and be like, yeah, that was as unlawful a search as it's possible to be. Dude, you know, no warrant, nothing, booted the door open, you know.
Dale Saran, Esq.: To heck with your constitution. And it was kind of funny as a, you know, as a, an officer, as a [00:17:00] combat arms officer, but you know, when you're on the other side of it as an attorney and people start getting thrown in jail over things like failure to take a vaccine that's not licensed, you know, you start to appreciate, maybe you look at things a little bit differently, but that was, that was the big eye opener.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And I think a lot of the folks that are right now with this happening, you know, like yourself, many have found out, yeah, this is, um, when the, when the military turns. Uh, vaccines into, you know, your health decisions into loyalty tests. It's, it's a problem. It's a real problem, you know, for the whole force, and for America too.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Because it became a loyalty test over health because it's not even a vaccine. It's a gene therapy. And it's like, okay, you know, it's not, it's not as bad as bend the knee. It's, it's so much worse that bend the knee and your life may never be the same.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Yep. It's, uh, it's unfortunate. I feel for a [00:18:00] lot of folks who, um, you know, dispositionally feel called to serve in the military or come from a proud tradition of that, but what's happening right now with the recruiting woes and the, and the numbers, you know, uh, that the military wants and needs to bring back in and, and you see for what to do, you know, what, what great battle would you be called to partake in and potentially risk your life for, you know, what defense of the nation, what constitutional threat, and you got to start scratching your head and wondering.
Dale Saran, Esq.: You know, so
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: yeah, and I feel awful for the people that took it because they were coerced. I mean, this was an enormous psychological operation against not just the military, but I would say a large part of the military, but against the doctors and there's doctors that still recommend this today and there's patients that are terrified to not get the next shot.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I mean, I've seen someone that had seven shots. It's insane. And they're terrified to not get the next one because they've been the psyop work to did exactly what it's supposed to do.
Dale Saran, Esq.: [00:19:00] Yeah, fear, you know, the whole point of any, you know, almost all psychological operations at some level is they're, you know, they're intended to manipulate emotions and, and the more powerful the emotion, the better results you can get, so to speak, from the, from the perspective of the, the person perpetrating the PSYOP, and we've got folks in this lawsuit, by the way, you know, it's interesting to represent military people because a good number of them recognized all of what went on.
Dale Saran, Esq.: I mean, the Operation Warp Speed, um, You know, the rollout of the vaccine had, had a concomitant, uh, psychological operation component that went with it. It was information warfare went alongside the, the need to, you know, make the vaccine. And, and we're still finding out pieces of that from various media sources like, you know, Matt Taibbi and Michael Schellenberger and others, you know, continue to the Twitter files, all of that.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Continue to, um, show that this, this was a [00:20:00] coordinated psychological operation against the American public by It's all government.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I don't know if you ever had the opportunity or the, uh, or course into watching the video that they made the, especially the army, they made the army watch this video of propaganda.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if you're interested in listening to it, go back to my very first episode is before I was doing video. Um, and I, I play a bit of it and I pause it and I critique it. It is the worst propaganda I've ever seen. It's just so blatantly, you know, scripted. It's it's horrendous. It's awful. And with even just not even a scientific mind or a medical mind, you can easily blow holes through all of it.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Yeah, it's, you know, I used to, I used to think that when I was a kid, the idea of the big lie, you know, telling the big lie and just telling it hard. I always thought that that was, you know, the kind of Joseph Goebbels notion of, you know, the Nazi model of propaganda. I always thought that was crazy because You know, when you're a kid, like, my world consisted of my [00:21:00] parents, and what I had seen, what I had learned quickly was that you almost always got caught lying, and the big lie would eventually lead to the big ass whipping, and so I couldn't ever believe that you could get away with it just by Like that was never going to work on my dad, you know, or my mom, but I will say that as you get older, you do start to realize there is a certain power in it.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And you can see it really publicly. Like, you know, I mean, look at Clinton shaking his finger at the American public. You know, I did not have sexual relations, you know, and a lot of people just absolutely bought that, you know, absolutely bought that hook, although to anyone who kind of, you know, it was a little bit distance from it.
Dale Saran, Esq.: If it wasn't their guy, you know, it's the same thing with, you know, athletes on the. When they pop positive for steroids or whatever, you know, when it's your team, the guy's got a great justification or you believe him, you know, when it's somebody else's team, you're like, the guy's a lying cheat, you know, take all their awards.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And so it's, I think we, the biggest [00:22:00] part of being of arming yourself against it is to kind of be able to step away from your own, your own propaganda, you know, the stories you tell yourself. And, and then you can kind of hear it in the other team's context and you go, Oh, wow. You know, it was, um, yeah, there are a lot of holes in it.
Dale Saran, Esq.: It's not particularly good. It's ham handed, but I, you know, I think Malone's talked about this. Many other people, you know, have, and I've seen it in other contexts, but the neuro linguistic programming, I mean, you just beat people over the head and say the same thing over and over again, just repeat it.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And, uh, But you can get a big chunk of the people and just go along,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: you know, we're kind of conditioned this from from childhood, you know, because you mentioned the big line. The first thing that popped in my head was Santa Claus. And if you have kids listening to this, you know, and you want them to believe in Santa Claus turn off right now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But like, we don't teach our kids that Santa Claus is is real because yeah, he's he's a fun imaginary thing. And we tell them, look, other kids need to figure out if it's if it if they believe in or not, don't don't you burst that bubble. You But it's mommy and daddy who [00:23:00] buy these things and bring them to you because we don't want when they get older to be like, y'all been lying to us with this enormous lie that even NORAD's involved with saying they're, they're tracking Santa flying across the United States.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's like, we're not going to be a part of that.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Right. Yeah. And, and, and what else? I mean, you, you really do, you do kind of a disservice where you create this alternate reality, you know, with the expectation that eventually they're going to have to confront the real thing. I mean, why is that? You know, it's a, it's been a lesson for everybody. You know, it's been tough because I mean, I have people in my family even who knew, you know, who knew I wrote a book about my experience with the anthrax vaccine, who know, you know, knew me when I was litigating all this stuff.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And yet, um, Yeah. Yeah. When the vaccine came down, it was, you know, as if all the things that I had talked to them about just evaporated, you know, and so it made it, you know, they're like, they would ask me, you know, like, well, what are you going to do? You know, I'm like, what do you think I'm going to do? You [00:24:00] know, come on, you know, who are you talking to here?
Dale Saran, Esq.: And so it's amazing to me that even people I thought who I thought by virtue of their closeness to me would, would have some immunity. to this kind of, uh, the, this whole psyop over the, these gene therapies. Like you said, not even vaccines. I mean, that was the thing that struck me about them right up front was like, I, you know, the, the filings that the companies that made them in their declarations to the security exchange commission, they say right on there that these are gene therapy products.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Moderna's filings, Pfizer's filings. They had always classified them as gene therapies, but then. They said that, um, uh, for purposes of us, they would call, they would be, you know, the FDA was going to treat them as vaccines. And that right there was part of the SIOP. I mean, I read that from, for somebody.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Like me, it was kind of a legal background in this, this whole vaccine regime, you know, the one [00:25:00] thing you can at least say about the anthrax vaccine was it was an actual vaccine. It was a real vaccine, you know, they actually derived that from, you know, like the thing itself. And, um, this, it was clear to me right away when they started calling these vaccines that that was, that was an intentional.
Dale Saran, Esq.: They were relying upon the, that word and all of the connotations that go with it. And, and the sense that people have are, oh, vaccine equal good, vaccine prevent bad, you know, and, um, that that was right out of the gate, that it was a conscious choice to call these things vaccines when they don't even meet the DOD's own definition for a vaccine, um, in the, in the DOD instruction 6205.
Dale Saran, Esq.: 02. For all you folks keeping track at home and want to make sure Dale is still on his game. I believe that's the, I believe that's where the citation is to the DOD definition of vaccine.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm reading this, this phrase. Uh, [00:26:00] it was, it was, it was from FRAG 05 and it was in the paragraph, I can't remember the name of the paragraph right now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, and I read this for a year before it dawned on me what it was actually saying. Because I changed the words in my head. In my head I read, you know, the commanders must ensure that there are FDA approved vaccines on hand to provide for blah blah blah, for their service members. And that's not what it said.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What it actually said is, ensure there's enough DOD approved vaccine.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Oh, wow.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I was reading that for about a year before I realized that says D. O. D. approved vaccine, that does not say F. D. A.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if you need that, I can send that to you. It's in, it's, it's
Dale Saran, Esq.: I'm sure I have it, you know, I'm sure I've read it like you have probably a dozen times and blown right past that paragraph, you know, but that, that would be [00:27:00] perfectly revealing of what was going on. You know, there was a lot of that. I mean, a lot of the paperwork I knew, you know, I got things early on because I was the anti vax guy and I got known for that in the Marine Corps.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And, you know. Between all the stuff I did in 99 and then all the way through Dovey Rumsfeld. So a lot of people knew me as the anti vax guy. Which is kind of funny because my shot record looks probably like most people in the DOD. You know, I look like the human in question. I think I got a copy around here somewhere.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Um, uh, but, you know, I got all kinds of stupid stuff. And now, you know, over my dead body will I let anyone inject me with anything. I mean, I just, you know, and people, I laugh now, you know, the whole term anti vaxxer, like, Hey man, you turned me into one. I didn't start this way, you know? Um, but, uh, it, it was something that, uh, it struck me immediately.
Dale Saran, Esq.: That, you know, the whole do si do they did there with the FDA, and then having a DoD official approve, I [00:28:00] mean, that's at the heart of our case, you know, it always has been. Having DoD officials making, uh, clinical judgments about the interchangeability of products is, is just, uh, That's a strange new world, you know,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: it sure is.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And what you're referencing is, um, what was the name of that lady? Yeah.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Adderam, uh, assistant secretary of defense, uh, for health affairs or undersecretary of defense or something like that. You know, who, who, uh, did the famous interchangeability memos and did it for both spike facts and for the, uh, BNT one 62, the Pfizer version, but substituted an unlicensed product in for a licensed one said that that's.
Dale Saran, Esq.: A O K, as if she had any authority to do so. She does not, you know, never has. Nobody in the DOD has that authority. But, um, that's a, that's a pretty big, uh, tip off as to how, how far afield we are now, the DOD [00:29:00] officials now, and the DOD itself. Believes that it can, uh, it can make determinations about vaccines and whether they're licensed or not.
Dale Saran, Esq.: You know, or not even vaccines, biologic products, let's call them what they are. You know, about gene, biologics.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, and what's interesting is that day that that memo came out, I had a conversation with my boss, a lieutenant colonel and a doctor. And I said, look, they're not the same thing. You know, go look at the vial. Does it say, um, you know, EUA on it or not? And he was about to go look at it. And then he got the email like 10 minutes later.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: With that Terry Adderham memo that says, uh, that they're interchangeable. And so he never went and looked.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Yeah. Yeah, that was, that was at the heart of the case from the beginning. And it's been, uh, maybe one of the biggest frustrations is that no one has looked at. You can't get a single judge to look at that issue. We haven't yet been able to get, um, a judge. [00:30:00] To rule on the simple issue of whether DoD officials can make interchangeability determinations for FDA regulated products?
Dale Saran, Esq.: And the answer to that, of course, is a resounding no, or, or our entire constitutional scheme is meaningless. But we're finding out that maybe, maybe that's closer to truth than not, you know, unfortunately. But hopefully, I mean,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, I was going to say that I'm sure you had a chance, but probably have forgotten it already.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The affidavit that I wrote for Todd Callender in Robert v. Austin, and how their incomplete safety data sheets make it illegal for the DOD to expose anybody to these products.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Right. And, and of course, then what came out, you know, I think it's really interesting, Sam, I mean, Again, you and I go back and have some history here on this, but, um, you know, we were able early on to, uh, to get some, some of those vials tested.[00:31:00]
Dale Saran, Esq.: And now there's all this stuff coming out about adulterated products. And, you know, there's SV40, there's simian virus 40 in there. And a lot of other stuff, plasmid, you know, DNA plasmid, all this stuff that turns out to be in these vials that would make them unquestionably adulterated products under the FDA regulations.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And now it's big news, but I'm like, I'm pretty sure you and I filed something about that pretty early on, like two years ago.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. You know? And, and, you know, I make this very Clear and abundant that I, I abundantly clear that I think that the MRNA or the DNA capsids are all that. I think that's half or less of the problem.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I think the majority of the problem or at least half of the problem equal is the lipid nanoparticle that's in it. Because it's not fit for human use. It's for research use only. They don't even let them inject them into animals.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Yep, it's uh, yeah, I wish I could say anything, you know that I was [00:32:00] I'm surprised by any of it But I wrote a book specifically because I wasn't surprised about it, you know in anticipation I published it in 2020 because I mean you can see this coming a mile away though And there were other people like the folks at Children's Health Defense.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Um, Dr. Meryl Nass. She was the one who prescribed Uh, Ivermectin to, I think, Robert Malone, and she got her, uh, the main board of, uh, medicine, went after her license, and, and I've known Meryl since the anthrax days, and, um, you know, Meryl's a good lady and a good doctor, but we knew, and those of us who had kind of been involved with Dovie Rumsfeld, You know, it's almost like when this all started with COVID, we all, as soon as they said, yeah, we're going to, we're going to get a vaccine, we were like, oh no.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And we were all talking to each other. The writing was on the wall. You know, if you look at the top five contractors, uh, DOD contractors, you know, back in the day it was always, it's like McDonnell Douglas or Boeing, you know, it's [00:33:00] aircraft manufacturers or Raytheon, you know, weapons manufacturers, you know, have always been the biggest DOD contractors, huge numbers.
Dale Saran, Esq.: I mean, they, they get, you know. Billions and billions of dollars. And, um, uh, you look at the pharmaceutical industry while huge by comparison to like Boeing or McDonnell Douglas, or whatever, we're pretty small potatoes in the world of government contracting, you know, it's much harder to. Um, sell poison to the populace, um, on its own merit.
Dale Saran, Esq.: It's a lot easier when you can force it into them and the U. S. government buys all of it. And that's what happened to, with these, uh, you know, these gene therapy products. They were government contracts, open ended, complete liability, immunity. I mean, you know, everybody's kind of covered this in the, in public.
Dale Saran, Esq.: I don't know how, how much, you, you almost can never cover it enough. But, I mean, these things were. [00:34:00] It turned Pfizer from, you know, like, vaulted them all the way to near the top, they're now one of the top DoD contractors. And once that happens, it's basically, you're getting your immune system on a, um, you know, on a license agreement.
Dale Saran, Esq.: It's like those software license agreements, you know, this booster every six months. It's, it's your immune system on a, on a, on a license agreement that the DoD has with Pfizer. It's just, no good way that can, that can go on, you know, I don't think. For. Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, I'll just, you know, it's, it's this, it's, you know, I was talking about Meryl Nass and some of us from the anthrax days, and I'll just say that back then the pharmaceutical companies, while big, you know, the U.
Dale Saran, Esq.: S. pharmaceutical industry is huge, but individually they weren't anything compared to the likes of Raytheon or McDonnell Douglas or any of those big companies. D. O. D. contractors, but now we've turned pharmaceutical companies [00:35:00] into D. O. D. contractors. They've got their hand in that fat D. O. D. budget now, and they'll never let it go.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And so your immune system is now on a license agreement with the Department of Defense. You know that the bio warfare is now the excuse that the D. O. D. always needed to, and that sigh up on the American public, was to convince everyone to treat their closest friends and neighbors like disease vectors.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Um, and, uh, um, now you're going to get your immune system just like your software every six months. So you'll need to get it updated, you know, forever, eternally. So not me.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Well, of course, you know, it has been for a long time. I mean, the excuse that Fort Detrick has had has always been that. Well, you know, this is purely for defensive purposes and yet it was, it was clear. I'll tell you something about the anthrax letter attacks. It was clear to anybody. who knew [00:36:00] anything about anthrax, the, the bioweapon, at the time.
Dale Saran, Esq.: That there were only two labs in the world who were capable of making aerosolized, um, that powdery form of anthrax. The only two labs in the world that had that capability. It's an extremely difficult, uh, cumbersome process. And anthrax molecules are clumpy. By nature. And the only two labs that had the capability were one in Russia and one in the U.
Dale Saran, Esq.: S. at Fort Detrick. Those were the only two places the anthrax letters could have come from. And so, I mean, it was clear the day that the anthrax letters happened that it was either the Russians or it was us. You know, it either came from our lab or theirs. It was by the strain of it. It was clear very quickly that it was a us strain, that it was our own.
Dale Saran, Esq.: So, you know, the, the justification is always, Oh, we're going to, you know, we're just using it for defensive purposes in case some bad actors do this. But the reality is that it's, we're, we're the bad actors. If we weren't doing [00:37:00] this, nobody else has the capability to be doing it. It's our own people.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: After a glitch, we didn't record, so, uh, we're gonna hit record now, and, oh man, that was a great conversation, too. So the question was, how do we switch the, oh, and you said so much in between there, I'm so sorry. Um. No, no, that's okay. How, how do we, um. So, we changed these from civil actions, to, to legal actions To get crinal prosecutions, of these people that uh, violated human rights Violated the constitution you know, aided and bedded the enemy.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um because if you believe these are bioweapons, like I do then the these were created by an enemy To get into the U. S. troops and destroy Our military, which is proven by DMED, the Defense Military Epidemiologic Database, that our United States troops have been destroyed by this thing, and they've even changed the database.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, I mean, how do we get criminal prosecution of people who are treasonous? How do we get treason, you know, charges pressed?
Dale Saran, Esq.: It's such a [00:38:00] difficult, um, such a difficult question. I, I just, gentleman, the gentleman I referenced earlier who called me up, he, he, He had that same question, you know, what he wasn't sure where he fit in the lawsuit.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And I've had more people ask me that question, maybe than any other. Um, what, when does the criminal accountability start? You know, and I always, I try and, you know, I'm not going to try and duck it like I do with them. I'll, I'll be honest with you. I owe you at least that, you know, we're, we're friends. So I'll give you the.
Dale Saran, Esq.: The real answer is, um, you know, I think that, um, I look at politics now like the way I look at the Red Sox versus the Yankees. Um, and I used to be really involved in that as a Red Sox fan, but I'm kind of moved on beyond baseball now. But, um, the thing is that it looks to me like what we have right now is Team Blue, uh, has decided that it's going to be, they're going to use, friendly [00:39:00] jurisdictions, the law in Team Blue favorable jurisdictions to go after their enemies, their political enemies, i.
Dale Saran, Esq.: e. witness what's going on with former President Trump. And so if Team Red wants to, you know, remain viable, I think that they're, they're going to have to, um, consider, you know, the same. I don't think any, I don't think any federal entity is going to do anything. I would not count on the feds to investigate themselves or there's not going to be any kind of accountability for the federal government.
Dale Saran, Esq.: I think that. Ultimately, the way I see this all going is that, um, if there's going to be any, it'll have to be in, in, um, you know, team red jurisdictions, the ones that are serious. Um, and you know, supposedly Florida and panel, the grand jury. That was quite a while ago. I think over a year ago, I haven't heard anything since, you know, we had talked about sending myself and Brandon and Andy, we talked about sending them some stuff, you know, I don't know if that's going to happen, but I mean, at some point, [00:40:00] uh, you know, we're court is a substitute.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Civil suits and, and criminal suits are a substitute for vigilante justice. We use the courts so that we don't, so people aren't, you know, swinging their, the people that get them angry, uh, they're not swinging them at the end of ropes and trees. I mean, that's, that's why we have the court system, so we don't have that.
Dale Saran, Esq.: At, at some point if the court system, if the people believe that the court system is no longer a vile, viable option, they'll go back to the, the other one. And so, um, I think Team Red needs to, I mean, I think Team Red needs to keep that in mind, you know, has to, so that there's got to be, you have to have that outlet for people to get justice, or it's just a simmering burn that never goes away.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And if we get that here in the streets of America, I mean, I would imagine we're not like the founders of this country and we'll be more like the French Revolution where they just start lopping everyone's heads off.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Yeah, it [00:41:00] could be. I, you know, I'm, I was not a, I've never been a collapsitarian, but I'll tell you, I was at an event, Sam, where there were a lot of very successful people, wealthy people, um, and, uh, very smart people, very, very intelligent people from all vastly different walks of life.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And it was a science conference, in fact. And, uh, but in talking, I was amazed in talking to people about this and a lot of things going on in the country. How many of the people that I knew, how many of the conversations I heard were people talking about heading for the hills, man. I mean, everybody talking about, Hey, it sounded like everybody there was a prepper, you know, it was amazing.
Dale Saran, Esq.: I was at a very, I was in a very liberal place. I was in California and in an Uber liberal place in California, there were people there are very successful, intelligent, wealthy people from all over. And the conversation, Oh, he seemed to come back to people. I could hear people talking about, well, you know, [00:42:00] or.
Dale Saran, Esq.: You know, getting some raised garden beds to grow our own vegetables and, you know, everybody's talking about, um, you know, preparing for what feels sort of like an inevitable, um, retrenchment, you know, I, I think that I have the sense, I don't know about anybody else, that I, you know, the federal government can't keep spending and printing money like it's crazy and it just, it all feels like it can't go on, you know.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, and what's interesting is, you know, we're I've seen numbers that related things to, let's say, the depression. And, and the numbers are so much worse now. But it seems like we're not feeling it because everyone's living on credit. Like, what's going to happen when these, when the credit debt comes and, and knocks, and everything collapses from that?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's worse than the depression now, monetarily wise. Yeah, it can't, it can't continue. But people don't feel it because they can still buy food. Well Dale, we're, we're hitting a hard time. I know your time is, is very, um, Critical and I don't want to take more [00:43:00] time than, than you've allotted me. I thank you so much for coming on.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Where can people get your book? Where can people sign up for your lawsuit if you're still taking plaintiffs? Testing, test. Okay. Okay. Yes. Yeah, no. Sorry, we just had a crash again. Um, I want to be respectful of your time because we're coming up on the end of the hour. Um, where can people get your book?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Where can they join your Any, any other, any other Where can they join your lawsuit?
Dale Saran, Esq.: Oh, sure. I'll tell you what I'm doing now. Yeah, the, the lawsuits, um, go to militarybackpay. com. Uh, we've got, uh, the website's up. We put updates up there. You know, it's where the info is. So, militarybackpay. com. And then, um, I'm, I'm writing on some stack under my, uh, my pseudonym, The Abject Lesson.
Dale Saran, Esq.: And I write there and, and people can find my kind of thoughts and ramblings there. And the book's on Amazon under my name. Kindle and, and, uh In hard copy. And if people reach out, I'm happy to, uh, send you a signed copy. I get those occasional requests, which [00:44:00] is always flattering and nice. But, um, Yeah, that's, uh, that's where, that's where we are in the world, bud.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, thank you so much for your fight. Thank you for everything that you've been doing. I know it's, um, it's not a big shop. I believe it's you and some family members. And you've been pouring a lot into this for a long time. So I, I definitely am very appreciative of that.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Yeah, it's a, it's a calling. My daughter's a paralegal.
Dale Saran, Esq.: You know, she's got a year of law school under her belt. And I've got, um, we've got Tom and, and, uh, others out there help us. But, uh, yeah, it's kind of, uh, it's a labor of love. It's one of those things that, you know, just like you, man, you know, you kind of find yourself, you just know you've found the issue, that it grabs you and you can't let go of it.
Dale Saran, Esq.: So, uh, I ran away from it for a long time, and then the good Lord dragged me back, kicking and screaming, but this is where I seem to do my best work, so that's what I'm doing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, for your bravery, for your fight, for your tenacity, and God bless you in your endeavors, and [00:45:00] if there's any way I can help you, please let me know.
Dale Saran, Esq.: I will, you know, we'll, we'll talk, bud. We'll,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: we'll be in touch again. Yes, sir. God bless.
Dale Saran, Esq.: Thanks, Sam. Out.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, in duty uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics. It's never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own [00:46:00] the cow.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It gives birth to the calf. It's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare What we can buy from River Bend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it. It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. That's MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours
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117. Warner Mendendhall Esq., We Will Hold them Accountable
Today I talk with Warner Mendenhall about the illegal COVID-19 vaccine mandates. He is building the infrastructure to get teams together to legally hold people accountable for their actions.
https://warnermendenhall.com/
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117. Warner Mendendhall Esq., We Will Hold them Accountable
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Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So the issues that Brooke Jackson brought to four are also issues for all of those other drug trials and vaccine trials. One of those that many people have been aware of probably is the RSV trial. So they're coming out with an mRNA RSV shot. They're coming out with mRNA flu shots. There's 50 mRNA products currently in clinical trials right now.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: But I want to I want to highlight a few of them. The first is informed consent. They're not What we have seen is they're not giving proper informed consent to the people who are volunteering for these trials, but they're not being fully informed about what they're being given. They're not fully signing off on the informed consent forms, and then their data is not being tracked properly.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So they're not uploading in a timely way, adverse reactions, deaths, other problems, and I'm not [00:01:00] just talking about the COVID shot. It's it's everything. It's across the board. We're seeing these failures in the clinical trials. Additionally, and I hate to say this, but additionally, we have seen that doctors are being paid money.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: to enroll their patients into clinical trials. If a doctor's getting paid 1, 500 to enroll one of his or her patients in a clinical trial, they're incentivized, really, I think, at this point, to put the patient in harm's way. And I think that is happening in many instances.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the U. S. A. It's processed in the U. S. A. In fact, it's fully vertically [00:02:00] integrated, which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if we compare What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it. It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed I've been wearing this t shirt for a few episodes now, I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.[00:03:00]
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And now, to your host, Dr. Sigoloff
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you for joining me again. I first want to give a shout out to all my Patreon subscribers. We've got Too Tough giving 30 a month. We have an anonymous family donor giving 20. 20 a month. We have the Plandemic Ripper Mando giving 17. 76 a month with Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna, Frank, Brian, Shell, Brantley, and Gary. We have a self made level at 10 with Kevin and Pat and Bev. We have the Refined Not Burned at 5 with Linda, [00:04:00] Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary and Amanda. Addison Mulder is giving 3 a month and Frank is giving 1. 50. And then we have the Courageous Contagious at 1 a month with Jay, Spessnasty, Durrell, Susan, BB King, and Caleb.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much for all your donations. It's been incredibly important to me. Uh, also check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. For the best Stakes that I've ever cooked and I'm willing to bet the best steaks you've ever cooked. Check them out. My next guest is attorney Warner Mendenhall.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now he's been in practice since the 1990s giving false claims act, uh, going after false claims. And that's what he's here to talk to you today about how do we go after either Pfizer or the government because of fraud in these shots, sir, Mr. Warner, Mr. Menderhall. Thank you so much for coming on.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Oh, thank you very much for having me.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, [00:05:00] I mean, we are already, uh, pursuing fraud against Pfizer, uh, on behalf of the U. S. taxpayers. Our relator's name is Brooke Jackson, and I think many, many people know her and know of her work. She was a clinical trial, uh, manager and, uh, She saw problems in the clinical trials that she believed made the data that came out of those clinical trials inadequate and faulty, uh, and certainly, uh, Pfizer knew that the data was bad and yet presented it to the FDA in order to get Thank you.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: an emergency use authorization for their product. The emergency use authorization was the precursor to them getting paid the billions of dollars that they've gotten paid for the hundreds of millions of shots that have been given around the world.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So what kinds of things that you can talk about without, you know, exposing any sort of legal strategy, [00:06:00] obviously, the fraud that we're seeing?
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Well, the clinical trials in general, it's interesting to me that Uh, even prior to the pandemic, uh, the, uh, Department of Justice actually recognized that clinical trials in this country are really having a problem and they had a clinical trial initiative, uh, that they were going to pursue in, uh, 2019 prior to the pandemic, but nevertheless, that, that didn't really get off the ground.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: There was, I know of one criminal, uh, charge that was brought, uh, and closed out, but I think there's, there's. Yeah. in general with how clinical trials are run. The pharmaceutical companies are not doing them in house. They're contracting them out to, uh, clinical trial companies. Uh, the one here that Pfizer initially contracted it with was called ICON and they're based in Ireland.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And [00:07:00] then ICON, uh, contracts out for clinical trial sites with other, uh, The smaller companies and the company that Brooke Jackson worked for was called Ventavia now Ventavia, for example, it was not just working on the Pfizer shot. It was working on many, many other things. Uh, it probably has, um, you know, it has 10s of clinical trials ongoing at any given moment.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So the issues that Brooke Jackson brought to four are also issues for all of those other drug trials and vaccine trials. One of those that many people have been aware of probably is the RSV trial. So they're coming out with an MRNA RSV shot. They're coming out with MRNA flu shots. 50 mRNA products currently in clinical trials right now, and what's happening with the clinical trials.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And I mean, there's so many things I, but I want to [00:08:00] I want to highlight a few of them. The 1st is informed consent. They're not. What we have seen is they're not giving proper informed consent to the people who are volunteering for these trials. And, and many of these people are just patriotic Americans who want to help advance drugs in this country, uh, to cure disease.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: I mean, they have the best of intentions, uh, but they're not being fully informed about what they're being given. They're not fully signing off. On the informed consent forms, uh, and then their data is not being tracked properly. So they're not uploading in a timely way, adverse reactions, deaths, other problems.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And I'm not just talking about the COVID shot, everybody. It's, it's everything. It's across the board. We're seeing these failures in the clinical trials. And I'm focusing on Ventavia, which is one of the companies that she worked for, but the, there have been problems across [00:09:00] many of these contractors and subcontractors in the clinical trial space.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Additionally, and I hate to say this, but additionally, we have seen that doctors are being paid money. to enroll their patients into clinical trials. I think you right off the bat, I think anybody can see that there's a conflict of interest in that. If a doctor is getting paid 1, 500 to enroll one of his or her patients in a clinical trial, they're incentivized really, I think at this point.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: To put the patient in harm's way, and I think that is happening in many instances, so that's, I think those are, those are really the key points. I mean, there's many, many other things that were going on that, you know, such as, um, unblinding as the other big one, uh, they were handling the data and the patient information in a very reckless manner so that everybody knew who was getting the shot.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And, you know, as a doctor and a scientist that [00:10:00] that cannot. That result in good, reliable data, uh, if the people who are giving the shot or giving the drug in a clinical trial know who's getting it. That biases the data. And we did see that in the Pfizer situation.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So I want to go back to one of the earlier things you mentioned.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So let's say this is the informed consent part in, in reporting information late. So let's say we've got a study that's going. And we've got some people entered in this study, let's say some pregnant women, and they take whatever thing they're studying, and let's say they, they have a fetal demise, their baby dies.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then we have more women enter this study, and that's not reported yet. They knew it, but they haven't reported it yet. And now they, they don't properly consent, and they don't say, well, we've had, you know, x amount of women, and they've all lost their, their babies. Um, but they get more women to enter it, and they lose their babies.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Is that something that could be happening?
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, that is something that you might have even have heard [00:11:00] that happening in real life that that is going on right now and the RSV trial is the instance where that is happening right now as we speak. Um, in fact, I believe it's GlaxoSmithKline ended their RSV trial because of fetal death in the process.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. That is, that should be earth shaking to everyone.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: It should be. We all need to wake up to what's going on as fast as we can. You know, we, we need to, you know, that's the thing that I loved about what Paul Merrick did early in the, in this process. Paul Merrick and Pierre Cory, I think most people know them. You know, they looked at repurposing drugs that would address, uh, viral replication and address, uh, you know, what was going on in the body, uh, in terms of the, uh, you know, overreaction of the immune system sometimes.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So they had, they had really laid out [00:12:00] this, uh, way to use trusted old drugs. We know how they react in the body and they had figured out. Kind of the mechanisms of, of COVID 19 and how to address that with drugs that we all know that have been very well tested, have a lot of stability and don't have a lot of adverse reactions.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, instead, you know, their story, uh, all of that got suppressed. They weren't allowed to talk about it. Uh, they made a valiant effort to testify and get this out to the public, but it was suppressed and it was suppressed in order to pave the way for an emergency use product. Because if you have a viable treatment, uh, then you cannot get emergency use products, uh, out into the public.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, so that had to be suppressed in order for this vaccination program, quote unquote vaccination, uh, to go forward. And, uh, but, you know, all of us need to, you know, realize that and we need to really pay attention to these doctors who have the courage and the [00:13:00] honor to step up and try to figure out ways to deal with the kinds of illnesses that are coming down the pike that we've, we've got to deal with.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: One thing, since you've been really digging into this from a legal perspective, uh, I know you've, you've mentioned the mRNA a few times, but have you looked into the lipid nanoparticle that also accompanies the mRNA?
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Well, absolutely. Uh, the, the lipid nanoparticle itself is not authorized for use in human beings.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: I think, I'm not sure if all your viewers know that, but it's not authorized for use. And then there's this pseudouridine, uh, that is also very deadly in a subset of our population. And it creates a pseudo anaphylactic shock, a pseudo, uh, reaction, um, to, to the pseudo uridine. And that is very dangerous. And the problem with that particular reaction, I think, and you may know more about this than me, is that it's very hard to predict who's going to have that [00:14:00] kind of reaction, that allergic reaction to the pseudouridine or to the lipid nanoparticle.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And, and, uh, you know, that, you know, unlike some other, um, ingredients of these vaccines, quote unquote vaccines, Um, that's very hard to test for and control for, so it really hits people out of the blue and the doctors aren't prepared for it. I, I will say this, I mean, one of the things that's interesting, um, and, and they overlooked in injecting this product in everybody, is that when they use these types of particles, uh, lipid nanoparticles in, in a cancer treatment, for example, because it is used and it is helpful in other ways.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: It's technology, uh, but technology has a cost, and they know that in cancer treatment, so they do a lot of things to actually I'm suppress the allergic reactions before they nanoparticle shot in cancer treatment. So they, they already knew there were [00:15:00] these problems that could arise with people, uh, when they were using these products, but, but they decided because they're, they're rolling it out on a mass basis, they didn't have time to do that type of very close monitoring that you would get if you were using one of these types of products in a cancer treatment.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow, so they're just giving it to everybody and see who reacts. And then, one thing they were doing in the military is they would, and I've heard doctors saying, oh yeah, you had a reaction to the first one, but we've got EpiPens and we'll get you with Benadryl beforehand so we can get you the second one.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How is that doctor still practicing?
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: They have, where, where, where is that old saying, do no harm? I mean, you know, where is that? The basic, uh, oaths that physicians take to do no harm and to serve their patients. as human beings. I mean, it just all of this went [00:16:00] out the window in this process in so many ways. And, you know, I know, um, you know, the military, I think it was really used as a way to purge our military of, I think, patriotic Americans, independent thinking Americans, uh, you know, strong Americans.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: It purged our military. Uh, and it forced the others, uh, essentially to take a shot, um, many of them unwilling, I do recognize many people did take the shot and they were equally unwilling, but, you know, maybe for personal reasons had to continue, um, and were not in a position to stand up. So I feel very badly for them.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, and I, I do want to recognize, uh, you know, the, that, That we do recognize them, they were forced against their will to do it, and uh, we certainly want to help, uh, those folks as well.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right, which I, I believe that's a crime against humanity to coerce someone into entering a, a study that they don't wish to [00:17:00] enter.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Even any pressure, you know, it, it's unfa, it's unconscionable how awful the treatment was.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Well, I mean, yeah. I, I notice that people get upset when we bring up World War II and Nuremberg and the Mengele experiment, experiments, but the whole point of that, uh, was that it is very important to have, uh, informed consent with no coercion of human beings for, for any, especially an experimental medicine, but I mean, I would even draw that more broadly.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: All of us should always have informed consent about any medication that we are being asked to take or consider taking, and we all should have the right to refuse without coercive influences. And I, you know, it's interesting, uh, California, which obviously has been one of the very, very worst states in this crisis, um, has that built into its laws.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: It actually has the [00:18:00] Nuremberg Convention. principles in its state law. And, uh, you know, it is, it's one of the few states that's encoded the Nuremberg principles of choice and information and freedom to decide in its law. So we are using that in one particular case. We sued the University of California System, the Regents, um, on behalf of about a quarter million employees for failing to follow the Nuremberg principles that are outlined in California's own law.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So we are, you know, essentially, you know, trying to hold them to what were prior and previous to this, uh, liberal values, uh, that the, you know, that the Democrats have shown they're no longer liberal in the classic sense of that. And they have forgotten these core values that we hold dear.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, I think it's, it's quite telling that the Chinese government and leaders came to visit California.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And they cleaned up the streets for [00:19:00] them. And they think that says a lot about the state.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And they visited the White House too, I believe. So, I, you know, I, you know, you got to wonder what's going on there. It just seems like, you know, despite some of the rhetoric, there's this behind the scenes maneuvering to please China and to build China up at the expense of the United States.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, and that seems to just be an ongoing process that we have to stop.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, what's interesting about that is, and I encourage the viewer and the listener to go back and check out my episode 33, where I show you how Fosun Pharmaceutical made a business agreement with BioNTech in, I think it was March of 22.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So basically, The Chinese government bought out BioNTech, and then BioNTech made a business agreement with Pfizer, basically bought out Pfizer, and then about a month or two later they said we're going to supply 300 million doses of this shot for Americans. And the documents that were [00:20:00] released through FOIA, Freedom of Information Act, said that they were tested in Shanghai, China.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: That's a very important observation. I'm glad you brought that up. And it's even deeper than that. Um, the PCR testing that was taking place as well, uh, in the trials was also being sent to Wuhan. So, I mean, What are we talking about here? You have the Wuhan flu that, that, uh, you know, hits our country. And then, then our testing and our samples, our genetic samples are being sent back to Wuhan, uh, unbelievable.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So China is, is a thread. Throughout this crisis, uh, a lot of the materials that are being used to build, uh, the, the shots, uh, and get a, you know, a lot of the materials in those vials are coming from China. And, uh, you, you're aware of the whistleblowers at the, at the plants and the manufacturing plants that, you know, [00:21:00] saw Chinese writing, uh, on the bags, uh, and boxes that were arriving at the plant.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So, you know, they're China's all part of this and I again, you know, I think it is just it is a mechanism to weaken our society. Both directly, individually, every, every one of us who took the shot has, has had, uh, probably some immune damage, uh, and it's, it's weakened the society by cleansing our institutions of, of independent patriotic Americans, uh, who were willing to stand up.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, you know, whether it's military, health care, education, uh, local government, police forces, fire, firefighters, I mean, we've dealt with people from all of those regions of, of work, all those areas of work, uh, who are being purged out of all of our institutions from local, Uh, to state and federal level.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, to kind of further that also, I recently [00:22:00] spoke with, uh, Attorney Dale Saran, and he was saying that the military is basically purged around, and this is a guesstimate, and the military will never be accurate with their number, but around 300, 000 service members either directly purged or, um, encouraged to get out.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then you look at the video clip of, uh, Senator or Congressman, I can't remember, Dick Durbin saying, Oh, well, these illegal aliens that are here now, if they can, serve in the military. If they can meet all those requirements, then we can give them citizenship. Well, you've just replaced the entire military with people who don't know our constitution and you've changed the culture of America so much because now they're enforcing rules that they don't understand, like the first amendment, the second amendment, fourth amendment, the fifth amendment.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They don't understand those things.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Right, 000, that, that fits what I, uh, thought as well. Um, You know, I think some months ago we had kind of [00:23:00] gone through that and thought it was about a quarter of a million. But everybody needs to think about what that means because you're taking out very able people, you're taking out people who are strong enough to lead now and, and in a position to lead.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: We're not all in a position to lead, and I, and I understand that, but these people who lost their jobs. They are leaders. They led by objecting. They led by, uh, you know, giving up something they held dear, uh, to hold to the very basic principles of this country. And that's what I see as well. I mean, it's not just military.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: I mean, we know millions and millions of people now. jobs or change jobs because of these mandates, and, and those are our leaders, and there are leaders in our hospitals, our leaders in our educational institutions, our leaders in our military, our [00:24:00] leaders, um, in the police forces and fire forces, and, and those people are really, really important.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: You've got to have that independent American spirit, uh, to do the job we need done, um, and, and, uh, protect our constitution. And that's who, that's who's been most affected here. But what I do think they've created, uh, is they have created another army. Uh, they have created an army of patriots that I really do think, you know, they always say you only need a few percent of a population to change a government and to change a direction of society.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Well, that few percent that, that stood up, fought and walked away and sacrificed, they're not done. They're not done sacrificing and they're not done fighting. They've made the sacrifice, they've entered the fight. And I know from my experience of, with all of my clients and, and all the, [00:25:00] the groups that I've met with that they are locked in on this, they are not going to give up until it's fixed.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: I've almost been a little bit surprised. I'm emphasizing it because of my surprise, because, you know, I remember a set of clients from a hospital here, 200 of them got fired, and the litigation's been going on for, you know, several years now, and I, they held a meeting, and I was concerned because I thought, well, gosh, it's been going on so long.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Are they bored with this? Are they going to still be holding the line, holding strong? Um, uh, Oh my goodness, when I showed up to meet with them, they were not only holding the line, they understood what had happened now. You know, a lot of us, I think, at the beginning didn't understand the scope of this.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: They understood. They had been studying. They had been thinking about how to fix this. And so that [00:26:00] really heartened me in that process.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I think one thing that's, most of these people that, that notice this or that are in this fight, that have been, you know, part of the plandemic reprimando ranks, the ones who have been fired or left or not encouraged to be around the family, they understand that this is a war.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This isn't just, like, just, Like saying it's a war, it truly is a war when you look back at, I don't know if you've seen this, I'm sure you have, but the Emergency Use Authorization. To make that declaration, you must have a chemical, a biologic, nuclear, or radiologic attack against U. S. citizens on U. S. soil.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: US citizens on foreign soil or against the military. And you have to meet one of those requirements. They didn't state which one, but they said, because of this attack, that's, or this, this thing that's coming out of China, we are now declaring an emergency, which allows companies to use this emergency use authorization.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And you can, again, you can only use that designation if [00:27:00] it's an attack through a chemical, biologic, radiologic, or nuclear assault against US citizens on US oil, foreign soil. Or the military. And so this truly is a war. This is not shooting bullets at each other war, but I do believe that America has been attacked with a biological weapon.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Oh, I think you're absolutely right. And, and let's go back to the Brooke Jackson case. I mean, this is a department of defense contract for military readiness. This isn't your health department. It's not your FDA, your CDC. It's a department of defense contract designed to ensure military readiness. So essentially what they're saying is exactly that.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: This is war, and that the civilians now have to be militarily readied. By getting the shot. That's what they're saying. That's what the contract says. It's not just Warner Mendenhall, uh, [00:28:00] or Dr. Sigaloff saying it. That's the contract. And our case, and our judge has verified that it is a DOD Prototype project for military readiness.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. And that's, first of all, that's exactly what, uh, what Sasha Latupova is saying. That reflects the same sentiment that she's been reporting on. Now, I was telling, uh Attorney Dale Saran this information, and I had read this line. This is from Frago number five, fragmentary order number five, where it talked about, um, I don't remember the exact line, but I'm going to paraphrase where I'm going to read what I'm going to tell you what I thought it read as.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It said something to the effect of, Commanders must ensure that there is enough FDA approved vaccine available for their service members. That's what I thought it read, and I read that probably over 30 times over a year. And then after that year, I finally read what the words actually say. And what the words actually say is, The commanders [00:29:00] will ensure that there is sufficient numbers of DOD approved vaccine.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The D. O. D. is not in the business of making vaccines.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Right, right. Or approving vaccines. They don't have any capacity really to approve a vaccine. Of course not. It's not their, it's not their mandate. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think this is just critical for people to understand. I'm in touch with Sasha. She certainly has followed Brooke's case and has been, uh, very, uh, attentive to all the contracts that we're litigating, uh, right now.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And I think she's done a marvelous job and, uh, she and Catherine Wadd have, have both really poured over the legislative structure that got us to where we are now and, and why they were empowered to do this, um, and how they were empowered. Uh, you know, so they've done very, very important work. It's certainly [00:30:00] been helpful to us in our litigations, been helpful to me personally, uh, you know, having other people look at it and, and come up with explanations.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, so I, I appreciate all the work that they've done and, and so many other people, but, uh, you know, one of the things that they said that I thought was particularly revealing is that. Emergency use products, you know, we, the way we always thought about it was that we as citizens should have access if there's an emergency to these products, of course, without coercion.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: If we need them badly to deal with an illness, it's, you know, uh, that we need to deal with. But instead, what's happened is that the regime, the legislative regime, the administrative regime, the military regime has really set up a process where they have access to our bodies. It's, it's the reversal of what we think.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: It's the D. O. D. [00:31:00] Getting access to the population under the military readiness rubric. That's the access that is really being dealt with here. It's not our access to drugs that may or may not help us. It's military access to civilian bodies.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Which is a terrifying thought that here it started off as let me give compassion and allow you to have the same protections that the military is having, and then it was flipped on its head by the current government and, you know, rulers of our country, really, because they're, you know, they're not working for the people too much these days.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And they're forcing people are encouraging stiff arming, forcing and coursing to take these shots that Should be offered to the military, but not coerced. And now they're forced upon the entire population, something developed and made in China.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Yep. Yep. And, and I, and we all know, um, I mean, and that was, again, let's [00:32:00] go back to the clinical trials and Brooke Jackson. I mean, we knew in the clinical trials that they were ineffective. They didn't stop transmission roughly. If you look at both arms of the clinical trial, 22, 000 in this arm, 22, 000 in that arm, they had the same rate, roughly.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: of COVID, uh, infection. And in fact, in the first seven days, uh, after the either placebo or shot, there was a higher rate of infection among those who got the shot. Wow. And then of course, uh, there was a higher mortality rate in the, uh, arm of the trial that got the shot. So it has, it increases your chance for infection in the first seven days.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: It kills you at a higher rate than, uh, if you don't get anything at all. Uh, and, uh, the all cause mortality, whether it's COVID or cancer or, or vaccine reaction, was higher in the vaccine arm. So all of that means that this [00:33:00] made no sense at all. Uh, and we knew this, and Pfizer knew this, and, and I'll tell you frankly, Moderna knew this, and, uh, Novavax knew this, uh, from the beginning.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And, and I think even, uh, J& J, uh, can be implicated as well.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, the things that, uh, Sasha Latsipova is talking about, how these are DOD contracts, um, so would that mean that the route that's in all of these shots is the Is the lipid nanoparticle that's been supplied by the government or encouraged to be used?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Because they all have different formulations. You know, I'm sorry. They all seem to have different formulations of DNA or mRNA, but they all have the lipid nanoparticle in them.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Yeah. Well, that was just a trick, uh, to, I mean, we have, you know, we have what everybody now realizes, uh, is process one and process two. So process one was used in the trials [00:34:00] and that process, and this is this, I, you know, when the magnetic stuff came out, I, I kind of scoffed at that myself. I have to confess, but we have since learned that process one.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Was a process where the mRNA was extracted and purified using magnetic nanoparticles. Almost unbelievable. So, uh, Sherry, Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, who got completely, uh, trashed in the media, was correct. And, and now at this point, she's here in Ohio. I, I believe that she's lost her license over this. Uh, but she was right.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, the most extreme interpretations and the most extreme, uh, analysis that came out in the beginning actually turns out to have been right. The second thing is there's process two. So when they had to scale up not, you know, the the magnetic nanoparticles, I think people can imagine this is a very complex, highly technical, [00:35:00] very expensive process to produce the shots.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So, the, the, the companies needed something much, much cheaper. One of the cheapest ways to, to extract mRNA is to create, uh, an E. coli bacterial, bacterial based platform. And now they are growing, uh, bacteria that produces spike protein, uh, that is E. coli. And then they have to deal with the E. coli, because you can't inject E.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: coli into people. That will surely kill them. So they try, they try to, you know, hit it with a product that will kill off the E. coli. The only problem with that, as I'm sure as a doctor you're aware, is nothing perfectly kills off E. coli. So much of that slipped through much of the DNA and the E. coli slipped through and and that I, it's hard to judge, uh, what all [00:36:00] the problems are there.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: I mean, you know, I, I see things in the medical records, such as sepsis post vaccination. I can imagine that, um, the, the, this is antibiotic resistant bacteria that slipped through in these shots. Uh, the, the. DNA of the E. coli then could be partly encased in lipid nanoparticles and enter into cells, uh, causing God knows what, uh, issues.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And then on top of that, this sounds like the Ginsu knives commercial. There's more, you know, Kevin McKernan, uh, you know, saw the SB40, uh, segment. So SB40 is simian virus 40. Uh, it was a known contaminant, I believe of the polio Uh, vaccine in the 60s. It is a cancer causing, uh, contaminant. So there is a segment of SV40 that is part of this.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: It was not disclosed to the [00:37:00] European Medicines Agency or to the, uh, Food and Drug Administration. And we don't know what that's doing. Is that segment of SV40 causing cancer like it did in the polio vaccine or not? We don't know. We do know that it has some utility in getting the spike protein to enter the cells.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: The point is, they never disclosed The, this simian virus 40 segment to the FDA, and this is adulterated. This is an adulterated product. And then there's other more complex things going on. Um, I'm aware that there's something called an open frame. So you have a start codon and a stop codon, and that's to keep stuff from replicating in your system and, uh, incorporating this, uh, You know, foreign DNA and, and, uh, weird proteins, uh, into your system.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: But that, [00:38:00] that segment there is called an open frame. I'm not claiming to understand this. I'm not a scientist like Kevin McKernan. Uh, but that open frame apparently can cause protein misfolding. Um, and protein misfolding can have all kinds of neurological impacts, which are alluding to. So there's a lot to be scared of,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: which are alluded to as prion disease, which can be called crits field, the Yakub or mad cow and humans.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it's, it's a terrifying thing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Are you able to speak about, are you able to speak at all about Todd calendar and his, uh, 14th amendment claim? And if not, I can refer people to go back and listen to a previous episode where I had Attorney Todd Callender on.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Yeah, remind me what he was talking about. I'm Todd and I are friends, so I'm, I'm, I'm not, I can't say I'm 100 percent aware of what he's [00:39:00] given, but I, Todd is, Todd is a very interesting person and, you know, he does, he's, he's very aggressively looking at issues such as oath of office.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, apparently a lot of our leadership has not taken the proper oath of office to defend and protect, uh, American citizens and the constitution. And, uh, you know, I think that that goes to this real, uh, failure of ethics, uh, and patriotism in our political leadership. They are. They are not acting, uh, in a responsible and patriotic way.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So what was he referring to on the 14th amendment? Uh, I may be able to address that. It was the,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: uh, Robert V Austin case. And he was basically making the claim that from myriad verse, I think it was myriad. Um, if you change the genetic makeup of an organism, you then become the owner of said organism.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Yeah, I, I, [00:40:00] I'm aware of the Myriad Genetics Supreme Court case from some years ago.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And, uh, you know, it You know, one of the things that one of the principles that we were struggling with, you know, a while ago now, decades ago was can you patent life and essentially there was a position that was being taken by many people that you cannot patent life. Life is life. It's not patentable.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: It's not ownable. That has to do with God and the spirit, and we should not try to own and patent life. But that myriad genetics case goes to that issue a bit. Um, and, uh, you know, I think that You know, it remains to be seen how this is going to work out, uh, in terms of how the courts are going to deal with a lot of these issues, and that's one of them.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Certainly, you know, I would be making the argument that nobody owns anybody just because they gave them, uh, genetically modif [00:41:00] or modified their genetics. Um, and, and I cannot imagine our courts going along with this. the fact that you own a patent, you know, that part of you is patented, but, but, you know, I, I mean, Todd has a valid point and we need to, we need to look at, uh, that interpretation and where it could go and make sure it doesn't go there.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I think part of his point is, is if other people claim to own human life, he's hoping this case will, this case will. Prevent anyone from saying they can own other human life or say that a person is not a human or, you know, some nature of that.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Yeah, well, we all need to wake up here because, uh, I mean, we're already in a very much more controlled society than what I grew up in. And, uh, you know, certainly, uh, leadership, corporate leaders like Bill Gates, uh, they believe they have a right to [00:42:00] control every single thing about us, um, including our food intake, our energy use, our ownership of property or non ownership of property.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And I, and I do think that, uh, that's where this is going, uh, especially with the, uh, central bank digital currencies that they're trying to foist upon us. And we've got to stop that because I want to remain a free human being. Um, you know, I don't think anybody should be yoked, uh, and controlled, uh, through their food, energy, money.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, you know, um, through control of their food, energy, and money, basically.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's very, uh, uh, like from the Bible, Nimrod, and from, you know, the Tower of Babel to control people that way, and it's not looked upon very well in the
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Bible.[00:43:00]
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Well, I think we have, I mean, clearly, and I know Todd has concerns about the Internet of Things and the Internet of Bodies, and they have, they are actively building out an infrastructure. That has an incredible ability to take in data. So I can certainly envision that they would have, you know, uh, nanoparticles that could transmit data about how an individual's body is functioning.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Um, Two two servers that then are collecting that and tracking that person tracking everything about that person. And, you know, this is very concerning. That capacity is there now. Um, it's it's very interesting. If you look around any community, you will see prefab buildings and they have about 40 foot walls on them.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: There's cement 40 foot walls. I've been all over this country. They're in every city. I land in as [00:44:00] I come in from the airport. They're in all of those industrial parks. You let's remember what they're doing right now. They're building out server farms and computer computer concentrations of computers in every community to implement the Internet of things and the Internet of bodies and the 5G networks and and, Just look around and, and try and understand the, uh, the electricity grid is being, uh, developed, uh, for that, uh, you know, I have, uh, a client who's an electrician who goes around the country.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: That's what he, you know, part of what he does is put these things up and he's telling me about these computer centers that are being built everywhere. Those computers are a precursor to the implementation of a control mechanism on society, and we need to be aware of it. And we need to watch what it's doing.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: I mean, computers can serve good and they can serve evil. And I think that [00:45:00] the close type tracking and surveillance of human beings is evil. And that is certainly one of the goals, uh, that is, that is being implemented right now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And to even further your point, if you look in the World Patent Office, I believe it's 060606, uh, I believe it's Microsoft, has a patent.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That allows a cryptocurrency to be distributed based on the human's behavior. So how would they know your behavior unless they can transmit and receive and know what you're doing to either give you this cryptocurrency or not, if you've been a good pet, you know, doing what they want you to do or not doing what they want you to do?
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Yeah, it's yeah, they want to social control. And we, as Americans, we are really uniquely suited in the world. I think we still are the shining city of the hill because we had these concepts of individual liberty. Uh, and that the individual had rights, [00:46:00] uh, against everyone else and that those rights were actually protected as long as you weren't harming other people, you had this individual freedom and it is very clear that the, they want to move to a more communitarian idea and that the community rights will override that of the individual in many cases, but, but that idea was the, if Founding idea for all of its imperfections, you know, and, and obviously our constitution contains slavery for God's sake.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So, you know, there's some, there's bad and good in that constitution, but at this point, you know, as a society, when you went through a huge upheaval to get rid of slavery. We've gone through a huge upheaval to expand the rights of women, minorities, our gay population. We've done a great deal to be a much more tolerant, accepting society.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: But [00:47:00] it is not, it is built on individual rights. I mean, Martin Luther King wasn't saying, Oh, the black community has to have reparations. You know, what he was saying was, Don't judge. Anyone by the color of their skin or the color of their eyes or hair or their race or their background, you know, take them as individuals.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: That was his message. You know, don't just assume because someone's black or white that they're this or that. Take that person as an individual and judge them on their merits. On the honorable life that they're leaving a living, uh, you know, and on their on their actions. That's what that's what our society is about.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And that's what these social movements. We have had social movements, but they're about expanding those individual rights. To vote, to exist, to be an economic, uh, person, uh, to own a business, to raise your family the way you feel your family should be raised, uh, to practice your religion, [00:48:00] the way you feel your religion should be practiced.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And we've been very accepting of many lifestyles and many religions, and that's the unique nature of this country. And, uh, you know, and I think that that is embedded in the spirit of Americans. Um, it's not perfect, uh, and, and we're always fighting about something, but, uh, I think we have the capacity to continue to have our disagreements, but to understand those basic, basic principles that have, I believe, in my lifetime grown stronger.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And I think the COVID crisis in a way has actually. Caused all of us to rethink those basic principles, uh, and to, and, and to address the issue that, you know, to be a free society, we have to be eternally vigilant to maintain that freedom and to be a free person, we may need to make sacrifices. I think [00:49:00] there, you know, like we were, I'm coming back around to the sacrifices that so many people have made.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Those sacrifices locked in those basic ideals into all of those individuals and revive those ideals. So I think there's a lot of bad that happened in COVID. That is one of the very good things.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I try to find the good in all things. Um, and I think they, you know, the word apocalypse doesn't mean destruction into the world.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It means an uncovering and to, to reveal something. And I think the good thing that's come out of this is I've been able to meet. Men like yourself and all the guests I've had on this the show people that I never would have spoke to my entire life But now I'm able to have great relationships with with These people, because we're all of one mind, you know, we're fighting for human freedoms, which is something that I'd never thought I'd find myself in the middle of.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And, and isn't it an honor to be [00:50:00] here and to be fighting for, uh, human dignity and freedom? I, I mean, I, you know, I, I feel the same way. Uh, you know, as a lawyer, you know, I felt like I was doing good work. I did see a lot of these, uh, things, uh, you know, happening in society. Uh, but, uh, you know, I have had the, the most wonderful clients and, uh, the most wonderful constitutional issues to litigate, as have hundreds of my peers, uh, you know, we have been active in the courts.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Um, we have to think through our constitution again. And we have to argue how that constitution should be applied in these courts. And you know, that's really been a success story. I know the Supreme Court this week, you know, said, Oh, it's moot. But the reality is we won those cases down below. We got, you know, we did back then.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: It took a while and it took too long. But it shows the [00:51:00] beauty and genius of our system where the Article 3 courts, Article 3 of the Constitution, stood up and played a role and stopped a lot of the madness. I mean, I wish it had happened faster. I wish it had stopped more of it, but they stopped a lot of the madness, uh, and they stopped society from going insane.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: And I, you know, so I'm very thankful for the, uh, The, uh, conservative federal judges principally, but I will say as well, one of the judges that gave us a good opinion was, uh, appointed by Jimmy Carter in 1979. Uh, and he gave us the, one of the fastest opinions I ever had and put a physician back to work in one day.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So, you know, I, I really, you know, but that's somebody who had classic traditional liberal Values liberal meaning liberal society, you know, the, the capitalism, the free speech, uh, the right to practice your religion, those [00:52:00] values. He had those values. He implemented them as soon as that case came into his courtroom.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So we've just seen some marvelous decisions and I, and I think also all of the attorneys that have been in this fight. One of the things that has happened is that we now have pathways to success that we can see across a whole spectrum of cases, whether it's in the medical field, employment field, military field, uh, you know, or otherwise that cases that have succeeded ultimately prevailed and and.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: It will not take us very long to gear those up again, and I know I'm, I'm disappointed that the Supreme Court called this moot. I wish they had just said that what was done needs to have a resolution at the Supreme Court. But these issues have had resolutions at our highest courts of appeals, and those cases stand.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: They stand, and they're in place, and they're usable if this happens [00:53:00] again, and we are ready to use them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, sir, I think this is a good place to wrap it up. Where can people find you? Where can people support you? Where can people reach out if they need legal assistance or direction?
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Well, I have been working, uh, with attorneys throughout the United States since the beginning of this crisis. Uh, we have formed a, uh, it's an Ohio nonprofit now. Uh, we are hoping to get a 501c status soon. Uh, and it's called Freedom Council. Uh, so it's freedom council.org. Um, council is spelled C-C-O-U-N-S-E-L.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, so freedom council.org is where you can, um. You can input your data and, and you can have it presented to a group of several hundred attorneys, uh, that, that are really working hard to do this. And I think one [00:54:00] of the things that, that we're coming to the conclusion of in Freedom Council is there are some types of actions I think that we can do.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: To take those people that have been injured in one way or another by this crisis and put them in sort of small squads A little, you know, little groupings of people that can go after hospitals, go after employers, you know, and bring those cases So we are thinking of how to, you know, become more efficient in terms of how to bring those cases Besides the class actions that we filed and some others Um, I, I know for a fact just talking to people and looking at statutes of limitations that many of you have gone past your statutes of limitations for your death, your family members death in a hospital.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Or some, or maybe a workers comp claim because of a vaccine injury, that type of stuff. But you can still, you can still help. Um, so you can help by supporting [00:55:00] groups, uh, non profit groups throughout the movement. Uh, you can also help, uh, by looking at where hospitals have failed with the use of Remdesivir and the VAERS program, the failure to report vaccine injury.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So if you have a grouping of, let's say five or ten people who've been vaccine injured, Uh, that's a good group. That's enough to go after a hospital for its failure to do the mandatory reporting, which we know they have failed. All the hospitals across the country have failed. Uh, so we can turn that little group on those hospitals to hold them accountable for the failure to report the injuries and death that they've seen from the shots.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: So that's one project that we're working on right now. There's 2, 800 hospitals. Uh, in the country, and we think we could form a group of five or ten people to go after each and every one of those hospitals. So that's one of our projects, uh, that we're working on. For failure to report, they're mandatory reporters.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Just like if a child comes in that's been abused, they're [00:56:00] mandatory reporters. If you come in and you've been abused because you took a shot without your consent and you've been injured, they're a mandatory reporter and they're not doing it. So, that's one effort that I think we can do on a mass basis.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Uh, so I want people to feel that they can be empowered. There are some things we can do and Freedom Council is going to be the place to find out what you can do and how we can creatively hold people accountable, uh, when they went to the dark side and impose this evil on our nation.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I am honored to be here with you.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: Sorry, I went on a little long there, but I, I really do feel, I really do feel it's so important that people feel, I think there is a way to turn their power, uh, and turn the tables on what's happened to us. And, and we, we've done, you can see, uh, we, we are thinking about that and how to do that every single day.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, I, I pray that God blesses you in your endeavors and you connect the people [00:57:00] that need to be connected. To get this moving and, and hold people accountable for the evil they've done. Thank you, sir.
Warner Mendenhall, Esq.: We're gonna Yeah, thank you
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there duty uniform of the day The full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: fear[00:58:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking this dinner is from Riverbend Ranch Which always provides prime or high choice has never been given hormones never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow.
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116. Dr. Jane Ruby
Today I talk with Dr. Jane Ruby. She had just had a lawsuit against her dismissed. You’ll never believe who was suing her and why she was being sued.
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116. Dr Jane Ruby
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Dr. Jane Ruby: [00:00:00] Many people over the course of the months I witnessed and observed through social media would direct questions to Robert Malone and they would say and ask him, why are you suing Dr. Jane Ruby? She's done nothing but warn people for three years. She's brought forward evidence from other experts and scientists about what some of these shots contained.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And his answer was always just sort of a rote kind of, uh, because she committed malicious defamation, malicious defamation. Well, he's also accused me, Dr. Sam, of committing cyber stalking because he did a sub stack on his, in his sub stack account, educating the public to what cyber stalking is. It's actually a, uh, a Title 18 felony.
Dr. Jane Ruby: So he actually accused me, he, he defamed me by accusing me of committing a felony. Um, so we'll have to see how that shakes out.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? [00:01:00] This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow. It gives birth to the calf. It's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare. What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out My Clean beef.com/afterhours. That's my clean [00:02:00] beef.com/afterhours, my clean beef.com/afterhours.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed I've been wearing this t shirt for a few episodes now, I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you'll be encouraged to question everything
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, thank you for joining me again. I first want to give my Patreon supporters a shout out. Uh, we have Too Tough at the 30 level. We've got the Anonymous Family Donor at 20 and 20 cents. We have the Plandemic Reprimando level at 17 and 76 cents with Ty, [00:03:00] Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna, Frank, Brian, Shell, Brantley, and Gary. We have the 10 self made level with Kevin and Pat and Bev. We have the refined not burned at 5 with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. We have Addison Mulder giving 3 a month and Frank giving 1. 50. We then have the Courage is Contagious at 1 a month with Jay, SpessNasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, and Caleb.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Be sure and check out MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours to check out the best steaks that I've ever eaten. Also, if you're interested in one of these t shirts, I'll have some links down below. My next guest is very special, Dr. Jane Ruby. Now, if you've never heard of her before, please check out all of her stuff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: She's been huge in this field, and we're very blessed that she's able to give us some time today. Now, you have some big news of what's been going on. You recently have had a lawsuit dismissed, is that correct?
Dr. Jane Ruby: Yeah, thanks [00:04:00] for having me, Dr. Sigaloff. It's always great to be with you. I'm honored. Um, yeah, we, you know, about a year ago, Uh, the self proclaimed inventor of the mRNA shots, uh, and, and he says that he is the inventor of the mRNA vaccine.
Dr. Jane Ruby: So when people criticize me, I want to say, Hey guys, he said it, not me. Uh, Robert Malone, he jumped into my telegram and started arguing with my followers last year and, and started a strange string of accusations. of things that never really happened. And so to my surprise, uh, by January, he had sued me for 25 million in defamation.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And he sued, uh, Dr. Peter Breggin, who's a total angel and a warrior in this movement. Um, and his wife, Ginger Breggin, they're both great, you know, podcasters and authors and just incredible human beings. And he lumped us into the same lawsuit. Well, You know, we, even when you're innocent, you have to spend a lot of money and a lot of resources to defend [00:05:00] yourself.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Um, so we've been spending a lot of the last year, uh, working with lawyers and we had a motion hearing with the judge. Uh, by the way, Malone sued us, uh, even though I'm a legal resident of the state of Florida and Dr. Breggin and his wife are legal residents of the state of New York. We were all sued in the state of Virginia, which meant that we had to have two sets of lawyers.
Dr. Jane Ruby: So. Uh, this past Monday, the December, one past December 11th, are, were our motion hearings in the Federal District Court of Virginia, in the Western District, and the judge, uh, who's a very seasoned senior judge, a Clinton appointee, I might add, you know, federal judges are appointed for life. But seemed to really get the, the case, um, dismissed it officially right then and there at the end of the hearing.
Dr. Jane Ruby: I mean, he didn't even wait to write an order or anything weeks later, which he could have done. That's within his purview. [00:06:00] So he dismissed it for the Breggins and myself, all three of us. Um, no jurisdiction and there was a lot of discussions. Uh, Dr. Sam in there about the merits of the case as well, and in his minute memo, our minute order, which came out several hours later, he's going to follow it up with a major order.
Dr. Jane Ruby: He mentioned that it was dismissed on both jurisdiction and merits. So we're pretty pleased. And now he is entertaining our request for some consideration on. the legal fees to be, you know, remunerated back to us because he cost us many, many tens of thousands of dollars. Um, for me, almost a hundred thousand dollars.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And I'm sure the Bregan's quite similar and he cost us a lot of money for what was a frivolous lawsuit. Okay. So
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: some of us don't understand legalese. Um, but what is merit? Sure. Thrown out for merit and thrown out for jurisdiction and what's the difference there?
Dr. Jane Ruby: I wasn't, I'm not a legal expert, but I became like a mini, kind of a [00:07:00] mini expert just to get through this thing in terms of what my lawyers taught me.
Dr. Jane Ruby: We filed two motions after First of all, when you're sued, someone files what's called a complaint with a capital C. That document, you can put anything in there. You can accuse anybody of anything. Then we have the legal right and obligation to file what's called a response. And in there we cited case law and we cited reasons why the accusations were unfounded.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Then Malone chose to file what's called an amended complaint, where he embellished the false accusations. I say false because that's by virtue of what Judge Norman Moon, federal judge decided on Monday. Um, so then we filed. Motion hearings, you have to be heard on these this paperwork. And so that was originally for September 26, just for everybody's edification.
Dr. Jane Ruby: But at the last minute. Malone wrote to [00:08:00] the judge and said his lawyer got sick and could he have three months to get another lawyer? Well, the judge gave him 30 days and the, he directed the lawyers to get up to speed and get this on the calendar, his calendar before the end of the year. So that became December 11th, which was last Monday.
Dr. Jane Ruby: We filed two motions and so did the Breggins. We filed a motion to dismiss. In other words, we want the court to move to dismiss on personal jurisdiction. I'm not a, Uh, Malone's argument was that I directed the, whatever the alleged insults were to him in Virginia. I don't have a Virginia show, I have a national and a worldwide show and it's easy to verify online.
Dr. Jane Ruby: So we filed a motion to dismiss on the jurisdiction, meaning that the court, the courts in Virginia have no jurisdiction over me, uh, to, to, to be adjudicating this case. And then the second motion we filed was called a motion to dismiss on the merits. The merits are the actual, um, accusations. [00:09:00] And whether they reach the threshold of, uh, uh, defamation, which I knew from going to three law firms last fall and reviewing this stuff up into like January, February, all three law firms said there's, there's nothing that even begins to reach the threshold of defamation.
Dr. Jane Ruby: But the. The second motion was to dismiss on those merits, meaning there's nothing here. There's a failure to state a claim, a real legitimate claim. And that's what this judge dismissed both of those motions,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: right? Cause my concern with the, the jurisdiction is could he bring it back up another jurisdiction, but if it was dismissed for the merits, now that seems like a much better reason to have it dismissed.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's like you have no argument. You need to leave
Dr. Jane Ruby: order right now, whether. The judge can only control, I believe, what happens in his district, the Western District of Virginia. I'm told by our legal counsel that [00:10:00] the reality is Malone can refile a new lawsuit and sue me in the state of Florida, where I am a legal resident.
Dr. Jane Ruby: He can also appeal this case. above judge, the federal court judges. I don't know where you go. I don't know if there's an appellate division. I don't know how Virginia courts are structured, but he has that option. Personally, Dr. Sam, I think that would be a really foolish thing for him to do because I think he lost a lot of credibility.
Dr. Jane Ruby: In the public eye for filing these lawsuits against people like the Breggans and myself who've done nothing but fight for health freedom, the ability to ask questions scientifically and medically, and the ability to warn out of our expertise, fellow citizens, not, you know, not to take these untested experimental shots.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right. And you know, you've been a guest on my show. And, and the Braggins have been a guest on my show, and y'all are just all salt of the earth people. Like, and truly in reality, you know, you're people that I want to [00:11:00] associate with. I'm not saying that I don't want to associate with other people. But, it just, it seems to say something about the character of a person willing to sue someone else who's supposed to be.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We're all trying to find the truth, if I'm not mistaken. And if, if there's some missteps and some accidents here and there, it seems like it would be best to have more grace, um, than what we've seen from some people.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And, and you know, that's a very good point. Many people over the course of the months, I witnessed and observed through social media would direct questions to Robert Malone and they would say and ask him, why are you suing Dr.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Jane Ruby? She's done nothing but warn people for three years. She's brought forward evidence from other experts and scientists about what some of these shots contained and His answer was always just sort of a rote kind of, uh, because she committed malicious defamation, malicious defamation. Well, he's also accused me, Dr.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Sam, of [00:12:00] committing cyber stalking, which I don't know if he really understands this, because I think he does, because he did a sub stack on his, in his sub stack account, educating the public to what cyber stalking is. It's actually a, uh, a Title 18 felony. So He actually accused me, he, he defamed me by accusing me of committing a felony.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Um, so we'll have to see how that shakes out, um, after we get the resolution on the, the legal fees. But, um, I think he should be a little more cautious about what he accuses others of, of doing while he's suing good people. In what is supposedly his side, but I don't know if it's his side anymore.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You know, it makes you begin to wonder, you know, what side is what side?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I think I said this back when I was
Dr. Jane Ruby: on your show. If I have a disagreement, go ahead. Sorry. Go ahead. I was going to say, when I have a disagreement with someone on my side or [00:13:00] in the health freedom movement, I take it up with them. I call them, I hash it out and. I don't sue them, but he jumped right to the lawsuits and, you know, Dr.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Breggin got very ill. I'm sure you know that in the beginning of the year, uh, with, with, uh, he was hospitalized with respiratory infection and flu and so did Mrs. Breggin and, um, it took, it took its toll on us, but we're really happy that it's over.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And one thing that I, I had mentioned, I think back when I was on your show and when I was on the, the That Bragan show is one way that you can use to differentiate and figure out are people seeing the whole truth or is there something else that's preventing them from seeing all of what's going on is if they talk about the lipid nanoparticles, because in my research, and it seems like the M.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: R. N. A. Is half or less of the problem, and the M. R. N. A. Is at least half of the problem, maybe even more.
Dr. Jane Ruby: It certainly, um, seems, seems so. Um, I know from [00:14:00] interviewing a Canadian emergency room physician, Dr. Daniel Nagassi, I'm not sure if you've had him on your show. Uh, he's a brilliant man. He was, um, he was stripped of his ability to, practice in Canada for using ivermectin. But he's also a molecular biologist and he recognized early on that the lipid nanoparticles were super dangerous and that the codes, the synthetic modified RNA codes that were being, you know, distributed through these shots was actually changing the human genome.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And I think when people realize, uh, what's been done to them, they're going to be very upset. And the reason I tie that together is because when he was on my show, he told me that. In the early part of like, like 2022 or late 21, he was on a zoom call, he found himself on a zoom call with Dr. Robert Malone and that Robert Malone admonished him not to talk about recombinant DNA, the processes that continue a damaged genome to go into subsequent transplantation.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Generations [00:15:00] and I found that really shocking. So I'm not sure who he is, what team he's on. And I just think that, um, the American public is wondering the same thing after these lawsuits.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We, I mean, we should explore every avenue of how it could cause damage. Cause the, the sad thing is we don't know a thing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I mean, there's lots of speculations and there's lots of theories, but we really don't know because we don't have the time and the research to show us yet.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Yeah. And you know, I've done a lot of work with Sasha Ladapova, who was originally from the team with Dr. Michael Yeadon called Team Enigma. And this was a group that came out early. They had a lot of incredible information. And Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. By use, by, with the work of Craig Pardecouper, who is also in Team Enigma, all of them put together that how bad is my batch?
Dr. Jane Ruby: And when you look at that, statistically, physically, what they were able to deduce was that we don't know what's in these shots on any given day, in any geographic [00:16:00] location, uh, they could switch it up. Uh, because they, Pfizer apparently negotiated with the EMA a 50 percent leeway of nondisclosure, which means they don't have to tell you what's in 50 percent of it.
Dr. Jane Ruby: So the danger, the evil, I mean, it's just, it's just unfathomable.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They don't have to tell you what's in half of it. That means they could not tell you what the mRNA is, or they could not tell you what a lipid nanoparticle is, because it's about half and half.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And equally as bad, they can switch up the contents anytime.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And never have, apparently, any obligation to notify oversight or regulatory bodies. I mean, that's the, that's the big problem, Dr. Sam. The world of pharmaceutical drug development that I spent 20 years in, there were, there was, there was, there was fraud, there was corruption. I could see it internally in these companies.
Dr. Jane Ruby: But there was tremendous oversight. Uh, there was regulatory [00:17:00] compliance that was, You know, imposed on companies, and I worked across seven companies in 20 years, and like I said, I could see sort of the sleight of hand and getting away with stuff here and there, but for the most part, you know, we had, you had to have informed consent, you had to have human subjects review boards, you had to have full disclosure of your contents, you couldn't change the color on a label, on a box, without getting an approval.
Dr. Jane Ruby: You had to submit everything back into the FDA, so something has definitely changed. And I've learned a lot from Sasha Latipova in terms of her documentation and Catherine Watt that what's changed is those regulatory bodies are now part of something very evil going on like the DOD and others that are manufacturing and distributing these poisons.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's interesting, you mentioned the DOD and what Sasha Latupova has been exploring. Uh, but there was this, uh, fragmentary order number five that came out. And in there, I'm going to have to paraphrase it because I [00:18:00] don't remember the exact verbiage, but it said something to the effect of, at least is what I thought it said, for about a year.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I read it multiple times a day for about a year. And it said that commanders must ensure there are adequate supply of FDA approved vaccines. But in reality, when I finally got out of my head and read what it said on the paper, it actually said DOD approved vaccines.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Wow. What does that mean?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And that came out in 2021 about how the commanders had to ensure that there was adequate numbers of DOD approved vaccines. And it's not an accident. They have lawyers pour over these orders to ensure that there's not some accident like it says DOD when it should say FDA, they meant to say DOD.
Dr. Jane Ruby: That's right. That's right. So, you know, she came out early with that information that this was really a D. O. D. run mass genocide operation, uh, was really [00:19:00] impressed with the bravery of you and Dr. Pete Chambers and Dr. Teresa Long, who were the original D. O. D. Whistleblowers, um, that you had the courage to do that because that's going up against a pretty, that's, that's a pretty big Goliath, even for Goliath standards, uh, but I just wonder, you know, 2023 seems to have been a year where, um, the, the grifters, the frauds, the phonies, the operatives, the controlled opposition, that whoever is in those camps is really outing themselves and showing themselves for who they, who they really are.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And I just hope that it's not too late. You know. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I hope there's more truth that comes out over this time and not just about the shots. I mean, I read an article just recently on the Epoch Times about statins increasing your cardiovascular disease. We're giving it to stop cardiovascular disease or to reduce it and it's actually doing the exact opposite.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I mean, there's an article from the American Heart Association written in part by them from 2012 that said, if we lower your [00:20:00] LDL with statins, it increases your risk of AFib. It's like, well, well, that's a good way for cardiologists to keep getting business.
Dr. Jane Ruby: It sure is. And you know, it all goes back to the fact that pharmacy, pharmakia, pharma, you know, pharma, pharmaceutical is really a creation of the Rockefellers and some of these other Kabbalists right from the beginning that they took control over the medical system.
Dr. Jane Ruby: I happen to be a cardio, a cardiopulmonary nurse practitioner, and I've seen thousands of people. Struggle on statins. Uh, statins are, they damage the motor and sensory systems, you know, in the body. And most people have difficulty, even after a few doses, but usually after a few months of walking. Uh, they, they, they can't go up and down stairs.
Dr. Jane Ruby: I've, I've taken family members off and said, do me a favor. [00:21:00] You're not going to die of a cholesterol laden, plaque laden heart attack in three or four days. So humor me and stop your statin, right? For three or four days. I had an uncle who came off of an airplane with my aunt in a wheelchair, and then after he got to, he was visiting my mom, and, and after he, I took him off the, I said, get off that stuff.
Dr. Jane Ruby: It was probably two to three days later, he was running up and down the stairs, he was vacuuming, he was doing all kinds of fun things, and we took a video, like a FaceTime, and showed his, my cousins, who are adults, live in California, they were blown away, and, A lot of these pharmaceutical drugs, you know, just if you listen to the obligatory disclaimers at the end of the TV com, you know, commercial, well, it'll cause your blood, your head to explode and, you know, your ears to flow with blood and this and that.
Dr. Jane Ruby: But other than that, contact your doctor if you have any allergies and it's like, what? So the, the blessing to all [00:22:00] this, Dr. Sam is that the truth is coming out. As you said, hopefully more truth comes out. The lies that we've all lived under. And, you know, maybe a resurgence and a re education of, of natural medicine that was kind of stuffed down by these, these greedy, you know, rich, the same people that own the Fed, you know, that own the Federal Reserve, these private families.
Dr. Jane Ruby: They took over medicine and they pushed it through what was called the Flexner Report. Abraham Flexner wrote a report back in the late 1800s or something and said, Hey, medical education should be in universities. Well, yeah, because that's how they could flood money into it and control it and control the curriculum.
Dr. Jane Ruby: So it doesn't surprise me now in retrospect that many physicians said to me during the course of my treating patients as a nurse practitioner, when I would question them, they'd say, well, you know, you can take those vitamins, but that's, you're just gonna get expensive urine. You know, they put [00:23:00] down natural remedies and minerals and supplements and things like that.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Not to say that you can't have snake oil and quacks in the natural realm, and people have to be very careful right now because a lot of people are coming out with that, with that, with snake oil to make the money really fast, but we need a re education and a resurgence of natural Medicine, you know, medicinals, herbs from the earth and things like that.
Dr. Jane Ruby: I think, that's my opinion.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: No, I agree with you. I think, I wish I had a better education on herbals. Uh, because I've had some opportunities where I can get a native license and do native medicine. But I don't know any of that stuff and I, and unfortunately I don't have the time to learn it. Uh, I wish I did because that's how they treated things.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's how we all treated things before we had pharmaceuticals. We used plants as medicine. And I think that's a great use of them. They're either a medicine or a poison depending on the dosage. And I think that's what plants are best for.
Dr. Jane Ruby: [00:24:00] Amen. I totally agree with you. Yeah, absolutely. And so I think if there's a re education across medical and nursing providers, um, maybe you don't have the time because your life is going in different directions and all that, but some can.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And we can all get started, you know, and then help educate and edify each other. And that's my hope. You know, that, that starts to happen.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, and I'm working on the education part. It's just, it's slow. It's, it's not like I have the time I had in med school.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Of course. Of course. But, you know, you have the foundation of medical school.
Dr. Jane Ruby: So, when you relearn, I think, through the natural, Uh, processes, uh, and that kind of education, it'll probably start to flow and it'll be faster for you to pick it up. That would be my expectation.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And the biggest thing I notice is what we put in our body every day, um, has a huge impact. Let food be thy medicine.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Amen. It's the food. I just, um, did an interview actually with [00:25:00] a, uh, very sophisticated, uh, food co op down here in South Florida. And in other words, they use grains that are sproutable, right? So you can sustain yourself on many different levels. And they're putting this together. They've been doing it for years, but it's kind of like they've been doing this and waiting for a, you know, a calamity like what we're going through now to happen.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And boy, they're going to be at the forefront. So I've told people, look for, look for farming co ops, look for local, you know, farmers, and let's start supporting them because they don't take money from big pharma and big, you know, whatever, big everything. And that and then if we mutually support each other, they'll be there for us and we'll be there to keep them going.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And then we can get off the grid of the big grocery stores.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right, and if you have those relationships with those people, like, Hey, I know farmer Bill, and I buy from him every week or every other week. They know you, and let's say something happens to the dollar and we go to some digital [00:26:00] dollar. Now you, you know someone and they're more willing to barter or trade with you for actual food items and other useful items.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And in fact, he named four things that would likely become the new currency. It was the obvious are gold and silver in small pieces so that you can use them as an exchange. Um, seeds, sproutable seeds and grains and ammo. Those four things are going to be the only meaningful exchange currencies. And, and I think they're developing some of those gold backs.
Dr. Jane Ruby: They're actually, it's, it looks like, like, Paper or metal, like paper thin and they're made of gold and it could be kind of the new currency because they really are, you know, we'd be back to backing currency with real gold and silver. Remember that? You're probably too young to remember that, but I remember seeing dollar bills that said silver certificate, [00:27:00] you know, amazing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, and yeah, and silver is likely on, you know, I'm not a financial advisor, all that good stuff, blah, blah, blah, silver is likely undervalued at this point right now, and if gold starts running. And that just means that the dollar is tanking. And so it's a good way to hedge
Dr. Jane Ruby: investments. Absolutely. And I think we, I think, I think a, a collapse of the Federal Reserve would probably be painful in the short run, very short run.
Dr. Jane Ruby: But I think it would be a great thing for our country, or whatever's left of it. And even it would be great state by state. Definitely. My opinion. I'm not a financial wizard either. And I'm not an expert, but. That's just my observation as an American who's right. Don't take our advice on that, but, but go seek out someone's advice.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Who's an expert on it. I hope we, you know, stimulate people to do that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, Dr. Jane, it's always a pleasure. I know we both got things to do here. Um, you're much more busier than I am, but I truly appreciate [00:28:00] you giving me. Your time.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Yeah, and thank you for reaching out and for being so supportive in, in the Malone lawsuit and just supporting me as a friend and a colleague.
Dr. Jane Ruby: And I really appreciate it. You've always been there and anything I can do to support you, you know, I will. And does everybody join me on rumble? It's where all my shows are rumble. com forward slash Dr. Jane Ruby. And my new website, which is drjaneruby. com, if you don't mind me plugging it because I've got all the Malone documents, all the legal documents, and a lot of other good information that you really need.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Awesome. Any other place we can get you? Telegram? How do we find you on Telegram?
Dr. Jane Ruby: I'm on Telegram. Everything's the same, drjaneruby. Um, Telegram, Twitter primarily, Rumble, all my shows are uploaded, including my coffee chats and then, of course, the website, which I really need to make people aware of more because it just got launched last week.
Dr. Jane Ruby: But. You know, with the, with the legal stuff in court, it just got a little sidetracked, but it's a great website. And when I say great, [00:29:00] I mean, it's in service to the public. That's what, where I wanted it to be. So thank you for letting me mention it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much again. And you know, I hope we keep in touch over the years and you know, it's been great keeping in touch with you this long.
Dr. Jane Ruby: Oh, my pleasure. My honor. Thank you, Dr. Sigaloff. Thank you, Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Jane. God bless. Take care.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, Due to uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as [00:30:00] it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It gives birth to the calf. It's raised on their fields. And if we compare what we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major steak companies that sell bundles that have rib eyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: My Clean beef.com/afterhours. That's my clean [00:31:00] beef.com/afterhours, my clean beef.com/afterhours.
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115. The Brandon Budge Story told by R. Davis Younts, Esq. and Jessica Budge
Today I talk with the Jessica Budge, wife of Chief Warrant Officer 3 Brandon Budge, and his attorney R. Davis Younts, Esq. Brandon cant join us as he is still under investigation but his lawyer and wife can tell his story. Please consider helping Jessica Budge at https://www.givesendgo.com/GBE5P
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If you would like to purchase better than grass fed and grass finished beef that will never get mRNA injections, never get growth hormones and never get antibiotics check out mycleanbeef.com/afterhours
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115. Davis Younts and Jessica Budge
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R. Davis Younts, Esq.: [00:00:00] That's one of the things that was so scary. And that's why cases like Brandon's where the level of coercion he met with is just appalling. I mean, why would you do that? Why would you prevent him from, from taking leave to go less than three hours away to be at the hospital? For his child to be born when the civilian hospital isn't even going to ask if he's vaccinated.
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Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything.
Nurse Kelly: And to have the courage to stand for the truth.[00:02:00]
Nurse Kelly: And now, to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Alright, well thank you for joining us again. I first want to give a shout out to my Patreon supporters. We have Too Tough giving 30 a month. We have an anonymous family donor giving 20. 20 a month. We have the Plandemic Reprimando level at 17. 76 a month with Ty, Charles, Stinfoil, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna, Frank, Brian, Shell, Brantley, and Gary. We have a self made 10 level with Kevin and Patton Bev. We have the Refined Not Allowed. Refined, not burned, level at 5 a month with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. Addison Mulder is giving 3 a month, and Frank is giving 1.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: 50 a month. The Courage is Contagious level at 1 a month with Jay, SpessNasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, and [00:03:00] Caleb. And don't forget to check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours for some of the best steaks that you've ever had. My next guest is a representative of who we're going to be talking about today and his wife.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Uh, the man that I would like to have on, he's not able to speak because he's currently under investigation for some issues. Uh, we have Davis Yountz on today. He's a lawyer who will be representing Brandon. And we have Jessica Brandins.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Davis has been on here before. Davis, please tell us what's going on. And thank you so much for coming back on with us.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Yeah, always, always great to be here. So this, this is a story that, unfortunately for those that are new to it is sort of a long and sad story. So what I'm going to do is just kind of kind of try to hit the high level.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And then we can get into the nuances of what has happened to Brandon budge. But the big picture is this, uh, Brandon is a warrant officer in the United States army. He served his country with. He has an [00:04:00] absolutely impeccable record. He's done everything that the army's ever asked him to do with excellence up until the point of COVID.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And just like we have all seen those of us that, that experienced it, um, he faced tremendous pressure to receive this vaccine. He had very specific conscience based, excuse me, and medical concerns with regard to receiving this vaccine. And because of his rank. He he was subjected to tremendous pressure for it.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: At the end, he was one of the clear examples of someone who was given so much pressure. He had to make a choice. There were issues with him being allowed to leave Korea. But more importantly, there was an issue with regard to him being able to be in the hospital. With his wife, Jessica, for the birth of their child.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Um, they were not even going to let him into the hospital until he received, um, the vaccine. So what happened in his case all begins there because everything else that has happened from the point where he was hesitant to receive the vaccine has been a [00:05:00] reprisal and reprimand coming after him. With false allegations of things to try to ruin his career because there was so much bitterness over what happened.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: So to make a long story short, they trumped up an investigation into his activity. They accused him of falsifying a vaccine card at one point, even though he had already. Received the vaccine from from a Walgreens, I think just a pharmacy off base and done that in order to be with his wife when his child was being born with.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: They started this fake investigation. He received a general officer memorandum of reprimand, but ultimately, then they even went further and tried to take away his ability to fly. They tried to take away his wings at a flying evaluation board. At that point, he was represented by a very good attorney, a man named Matt Berry, um, who I've worked with in other cases.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: He's a West Point grad and does military justice work. Um, Matt Berry represented him at the Flying Evaluation Board. At that board, he was cleared of all misconduct. So this investigation was fully looked into. It's the first time he got any kind of [00:06:00] due process. He was completely cleared of misconduct at that board.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: I became concerned about this case and got a little more involved when we found out that despite the fact that he was cleared of any misconduct, there were still trying to take, there were those in the chain of command that were still trying to take his wings away. And again, this was simply because he had been vocal about his vaccine hesitancy to the chain of command.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: That was it. So, so then he's clear of all misconduct the first time he gets due process at this board, and they still tried to take his wings. It was only because of some public pressure that was put out there. So Jessica has played a role in this, and as you have learned, Sam, and as you know, sometimes The only weapon we have sometimes is to draw attention to the darkness, draw attention to what's happening.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: So Jessica did that. She spoke out publicly about what they were trying to do, and then they tried to punish Brandon for that again. They tried to come after him again. They threatened him again. So where we're at now is this. We are in a situation where, um, I have, I have worked with him in a limited capacity to try to.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Fix his records [00:07:00] to try to get the Army to remove the general officer memorandum of reprimand so that we can repair his career and get him back to the appropriate status that he was in before all of this reprisal and these trumped up investigations. But one of the issues is, um, they're now seeking to hire an attorney that specializes with Freedom of Information Act cases and is prepared to bring federal litigation because.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: At this point, the army is not complying with the freedom of information act to release all the documents about his case that we believe would ultimately show that there is, and there was ongoing reprisal. So that's, uh, that's a lot of information. I know, um, that's, that is a quick summary of what's happened, but the critical piece, I think everyone wants to understand and what we want to draw attention to and shine the light on is the fact that this is all about a senior, uh, chief foreign officer.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Who was vaccine hesitant. And since then they have made his it made him extremely difficult for him to continue on his career. But yet every day he [00:08:00] is serving to the best of his ability. Um, and so that that's who Brandon is. And that's why Jessica and I are here to talk to you,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Jessica. Tell me what it was like when you first heard that that your husband, the father of your child may not be able to be present because he didn't get some experimental thing injected into his body.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I can't imagine what that's like. Yeah. Yeah,
Jessica Budge: it was really scary is what it was. I had never gone through the birth of a child without my husband before. So that was going to be a whole new experience for me. And I just couldn't believe that it was going to be taken away because of his not have a vaccine, you know,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: and were you seen on post? Are you seeing off post
Jessica Budge: off post? I live about 3 hours away from Mhm.
Jessica Budge: Post
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: off post was pushing this man. That's insane. So is the military saying we won't give you give him the leave to go [00:09:00] to the delivery? Or was it the hospital, the civilian hospital saying we won't let you in?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Or was a combination of both? No,
Jessica Budge: it was just the military. Just the leadership saying, no, Brandon, you're not going to be able to go be there for the birth of your son if you don't get this.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So I was stationed in Kuwait when my daughter was scheduled to be born, and they actually allowed me to leave the country for 10 days paternity leave, see my daughter get delivered, and then come back. And here, they wouldn't, they were having a difficult time allowing him to travel three hours. This is a different military than any of us ever knew.
Jessica Budge: Yes, it is. Uh, I should have been in Korea during that time and that was part of the problem was, you know, they wanted you to quarantine for so many days when you get to Korea and then if you don't have the [00:10:00] vaccine, then you can't leave the country and come back. So, we had actually just asked if he could extend his time.
Jessica Budge: Here because he was supposed to be leaving end of September and the baby was due in October We just asked for a few days extension so he could be there for the birth of the baby and then to Korea
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So was he ultimately able to be there for the the delivery? He was and can can either of you talk about some of the reprisal that you know that if you're able to that he's been able that he's been facing since this
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Yeah, Sam, I can, I can start and, and just walk through it and then I'll let Jessica fill in on kind of some of the more personal aspects.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: But, but again, understand this, this started because his leadership was upset that a, that a warrant officer. Was [00:11:00] hesitant in any way to receive this vaccine, right? So just, and you understand that you understand your own background, you understand what we all faced when we were going through this. And so that that's where this started.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: So there was just tremendous animosity, normal, simple things that happen all the time in the military, like delaying his departure for Korea by a few weeks, um, became. Uh, just, you know, became impossible for him to maneuver on that. It was just a level of frustration that that continued to impact him. But again, I just understand, you know, you understand that that for a Aviation, someone who is in military aviation, there's a limited, there's a limited window of things they can go and try to take, you know, ground you and take your wings away.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: But an FEB, that flying evaluation board, is a process by which they're trying to take away your ability to fly any, anything, right? I mean, in some respects, it's similar to medical credentialing, um, where they're trying to take away your ability to earn a living [00:12:00] later in the future by going after this.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: When the investigation that had no merit at all, but this investigation had, um, you know, it shouldn't have even started in the first place and it had nothing to do with his ability to fly a helicopter. I'd had nothing in no way connected to that, but they were trying to use that process as a way to manipulate anything they could administratively.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And in the background, the other piece of this is he was actually a victim in another investigation of sexual harassment that they tried to cover up. Right. So there are so many layers to this. What I, what I said at the beginning, there, there's complications here. Um, but, but that, those are the things that he has faced.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And again, just so people can understand who aren't familiar with the military administrative process in the United States army. If you're under investigation. Just being under investigation for anything. You're immediately flagged. Well, what does that mean? That flag is a flag on your personnel record.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: It means nothing positive can [00:13:00] happen in your career. You can't be promoted. You can't PCS. You can't be selected for a leadership position. You can't receive awards and decorations. You can't compete for awards. Everything in your career is put on hold and being flagged even for a few months for the purposes of investigation can, can have a cascading effect where your military career is damaged for years, right?
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: You're, you're off cycle all of a sudden to move your off cycle for leadership positions are off cycle for promotion. So it has this damaging effect. So one of the things that's happened and we've seen this is that, that poor leaders in the army will use the flagging system as a punishment in itself. So they use the timing of flags and other things to punish people.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: So that's a lot of what's happened here. So this has cost him, you know, the ability to obtain leadership positions and has cost him the ability to promote and all of it that the biggest, most challenging thing that I'm trying to help him with is the fact that he has this general officer memorandum of record in his, in his [00:14:00] official personnel file.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: You can't get rid of it without going through a very long process. And while it's there it hurts him and it could eventually impact his retirement even if he isn't separated So this is you know death by a thousand cuts of using the administrative process to punish someone And again, it all goes back to the fact that he was a warrant officer Who was hesitant about receiving this vaccine and they've done everything they can to punish him for that.
Jessica Budge: So, 1 of the things that Davis was about being promoted just recently, we found out after several months of trying to find out if we were going to be able to have this promotion. That was denied, so Brandon was up for promotion, um, in, well, let's see, what was that? 21? He should have been promoted in November of 21.
Jessica Budge: they took that away when he was flagged. So, then we had to go through several months of waiting to see if he was going to be able to be promoted after the [00:15:00] FEB happened and innocence was already proven and they denied that. So, now we're up against that, um, and I mean, that's in your pocket. Your retirement for the rest of your life.
Jessica Budge: Also, another way of reprisal. Um, we've had numerous threats from leadership all along the way, even before we asked about him staying a little bit long going to be in Korea. Um, there were that's why he was supposed to go to Korea. It had tried to get, uh, stationed. And, uh, somewhere in the states that was closer to his family.
Jessica Budge: And they were mad about that and said, things are just going to get worse for you. And they tried to send them to Korea. So those are just little side things. Like David said, there's 1000 things here that we could talk about for hours. But just like a couple of those things that are, [00:16:00] they really ridiculous.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: One thing about the, the promotions that I don't know if a lot of non military people really understand is that, you know, in the civilian world, you don't get promoted on time. Okay, that's fine. In the military world, if you get passed over once, Even if you're flagged and you should have been promoted, and then you get passed over again, not promoted a second time, you're done.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Your military career is literally over and they will discontinue the service. They'll say, okay, well, we don't need anybody who's been passed over twice because obviously you can't make the cut. You're not the type of officer that we want to have in the military or the type of NCO or the type of warrant officer.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so that's the end of your career. Even if you don't make it to the 20 years. You will be chaptered out. You will be allowed to, to discontinue your, your contract because they don't want officers in there that have been passed over twice, even if it was because of something they did illegally or retributively.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: No, you're, you're absolutely right. And that's where we [00:17:00] have to be so alert sometimes because there's all these different personnel rules. Each, each one of the services has their own unique ways of doing this. But in the army there, there are ways that you can ruin someone's career. And, and never give them true due process, right?
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And, and what's fascinating about Brandon's case is at one point throughout all of this is he had even just a little bit of due process and that was the flying evaluation board where witnesses could be called, evidence could be presented, cross examination could be conducted. And when that happened, he was completely cleared of misconduct.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: All misconduct is completely cleared of that, and that should have been the end of this and and properly, you know, the leadership, the chain of command should have looked us and said, Wow, this independent board that reviewed all the facts and evidence found that no misconduct occurred. We should pull this this gomar.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: We should pull this general officer memorandum of reprimand. And we should restore him to where he was before we engaged in this false investigation and the opposite happened, they literally [00:18:00] tried to get the leadership in the chain of command. There's a process by which they can non concur with the flying evaluation board and still try to, you know, Ignore the findings and remove his ability to fly.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And again, that's not just a military punishment, that's trying to take away his wings period so that he couldn't fly as a second career after he gets out of the military. And I truly believe that it was only public attention that Even stop them from doing that. I think they would have continued on that path if it wasn't for some of the media attention that was gotten and even with that media attention, then, you know, Jessica was threatened.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Brandon was threatened. Basically, you know, told to shut up, even though Jessica did nothing wrong. She was just trying to draw attention to an injustice that was occurring. That's
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I think it's absolutely insane that they can punish the service member because of what the spouse says. Like, I can ask my wife to not say something, but if she wants to say it, she's going to say it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Because, you know, when I was in the military, there was no rule UCMJ actions over her. [00:19:00] We are different people. Yeah, we're married. But she can say what she wants. Just as Jessica can say what she wants. But yet, this is what happens, is the spouse gets threatened. My spouse was threatened. Um, actually was threatened.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Myself and my spouse were threatened with criminal and civil action against us for going to a congressperson. We were threatened with by Lieutenant Colonel said, if you go to this Congress person again, you're going to have UCMJ or civil action and criminal civil action against you because he couldn't do it through the military.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So he's going to do it. And, and I don't know what lawyer. He was talking to, but that was a lawyer that probably needs to be disbarred. One of the dumbest lawyers I've ever heard. Um, but it's just, it's insane how you can threaten someone's wife and you can threaten a man because of his wife. It's just, it doesn't make any sense.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: No, you're absolutely right. But again, I think that's, what's so critical as we. As we still try to seek justice for so many service members as it [00:20:00] relates to what happened with COVID. I mean that that's a critical point, right? Because what happened to military members during COVID was unprecedented But now we see and we realize it was it was only a microcosm of some of the deeper problems that we have in the military If we're not going to follow through on integrity and on our oath to the constitution, so I think that's really important but um Yeah, I mean, I'll let Jessica kind of comment on the impact this has had on the family and just other things she's seen as a military spouse because of this, but I do think it's important as we look forward and we try to understand how we move forward as a country, how the military moves forward.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: COVID exposed so much rot, I think, within the military system and so much to be concerned about, um, because it was a lot, it impacted so many people at once and then we could see. The replication of what they were doing when it comes to reprisal and retribution.
Jessica Budge: Yeah, I I've [00:21:00] definitely noticed the Corrupt leadership, you know as an outsider and somebody that's not in the military personally There were a lot of things that I didn't realize um, and all those hopes, you know as an american citizen you have all the faith and
Jessica Budge: Do
Jessica Budge: He [00:22:00] will not be able to write him a letter instead, and Gateway Pundit and, uh, here we are. Sorry, Davis. I don't know if you could make out much of that. I couldn't capture much of that. It'll
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: be on the final recording, but I couldn't hear it.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Okay. Yeah, I, I struggled some, but I, I think, um, Sorry, Jessica, you were, you were
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: kind of bleeping in and out. So I [00:23:00] put on low data mode for a moment to try and catch up in it. I'm sure it was very good, but I don't know what you said. I don't know if it's just your internet, or if it's me being attacked by Wachuka, because they, whenever I seem to talk about things like this, I have more problems.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I talked to Dale Saran the other day, and it crashed like four times, and that doesn't typically happen.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Can you, Jessica, can you tell us about some of the conversations, you know, not the specific details, but the things that you were thinking when Brandon voiced his concerns about getting this shot with you, and Did you encourage them one way or the other? Did you say, you know, do what's best for you? Where were you in that that spectrum of thought?
Jessica Budge: You know, at first it was you're in the [00:24:00] military. You're expected to get all the vaccines anyway. You know, it's another vaccine. But the more research, um, that was done about the vaccine, I mean, we're not just going to go. Inject ourselves or children with something new that we don't know anything about.
Jessica Budge: Um, so I personally was against getting the vaccine. Brandon also is a very healthy person, very conscious about what he eats and drinks and. Um, tries to be as healthy as possible. I mean, and part of us for his career, he knows he needs to be at the top of his game all the time. So, I, I mean, we didn't, we didn't feel comfortable getting it also knew that this is your job.
Jessica Budge: This is what's required of you, so this is a, you know, a risk that you have to take.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And Davis, this is for you. Now, I'm not an [00:25:00] FAA physician, but from what I've been able to glean from speaking with Dr., uh, Lieutenant Colonel Teresa Long, is that you're supposed, you have a waiting period when there's a new medication before pilots are allowed to use it. I believe it's a five year waiting period, and that's after they receive FDA approval.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This is something that's never received FDA approval, and there was no waiting period. So it seems like that is not a good thing for the military to have done. I know this is kind of going a slightly different direction, but
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: no, you're, you're, you're absolutely right. So, and I, I sound like a broken record.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: I know, Sam, every, every time I talk to you, so many people I talk to is just, there, there were so many unprecedented things, so many things that just, we, we never really had seen done to the level they were done with this particular experimental, um, You know, Mrna product, um, that were done. So among them is the fact that unique to this product, [00:26:00] unique to this emergency use product.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Not only did the FAA waive their normal requirements about medication because the FAA, I mean, for a pilot, the restrictions are extreme. And I mean, essentially, every time you go to the doctor as a pilot, you have to You have to report every symptom and it can cause an investigation or anything else. So pilots have to be so, so cautious, so careful.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: They have to be very concerned about what they put into their bodies at all times. And. And here with this product, there were no waiting periods. There were others. And even worse, I represented clients that were army that, that flew Blackhawks and other airframes within the army that voiced that exact concern.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And they said, Hey, I'm the safety officer. I'm reporting what I, my concern about my ability. To fly safely with someone who's had this experimental product when we don't know what the long term impacts are. I'm going to die if I'm in a helicopter and this person is at the controls and they're trying to [00:27:00] land it and they experience a cardiac event.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: I'm going to die. It's not just about them. It's about me. It's about my family. It's about ground crew and everything else. All of those things were ignored. That's never happened before that I'm aware of when we saw that, that level of this. And so it was across the board. And again, it impacted those with a, you know, an FAA license, but it also impacted other medical exemptions, normal medical exemptions that would be granted because someone met with a primary care provider.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: They met with an allergist and it said, Hey, there's a contraindication for you taking this product because here's what we see. And those individuals were, were, you know, coerced and then disciplined if they didn't. I mean, I represented a very successful air force officer who was at the tip of the spear when it comes to, uh, high end research with supersonics and other things.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: He is someone who his brother and his sister, his biological brother and sister both had adverse reactions. To this vaccine. One of them ended up in [00:28:00] the hospital for three days. He himself had had an anaphylactic reaction to two different families of antibiotics. Why? Why is that so significant? One?
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: That's rare. But second, the FDA and the CDC both put out guidance to physicians that said, Hey, you shouldn't receive this experimental product. If you have one of the risk factors is if you have it. and had allergic reactions to two different families of antibiotics. So this is an individual who biologically, DNA wise, genetically, uh, the two people closest to him, his brother and sister, both had adverse reactions.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: He filed a request for a medical exemption. With the Air Force, the first provider that he talked to, the captain in the chain of command, said, uh, I have to disapprove this because of policy. You don't meet one of the exemptions that has been detailed out. Um, and so I have to deny this, but if I were you, I would not take this product.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: That's what the provider said to him. It went [00:29:00] up the chain because he appealed it and an 06, an Air Force 06 in the chain of command said, um, you know, if you have, we're going to deny your, your request for a medical exemption, but if you have concerns, just get admitted to a hospital first and then if you have a reaction to this.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Uh, they can save your life because you're already admitted to the hospital that that happened. Right? So again, you know, when we say things like, Oh, the FAA didn't, you know, waive the five year approval period, they waive the five year waiting period. Um, it was not just limited to that. This was across the board.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: The only medical exemptions. They were my clients ever saw that they were authorized to get was if you were, um, as if you got the first shot in a course and you had a serious and significant adverse reaction to that. But unfortunately, as you know, Sam, there were people, people that I spoke to who had a almost deadly reaction to the first dose and we're still ordered to get the second dose.[00:30:00]
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: So, uh, you know, that's, that's what I think is so critical. There's so many issues around this, but there was this dogma, this almost religious level, cult like level of. Everyone, everyone in the military 100 percent have to be vaccinated, even if it kills some, even if we have no idea what the long term consequences will be.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Everyone has to receive this. That's one of the things that was so scary. And that's why cases like Brandon's where the level of coercion he met with is just appalling. I mean, why would you do that? Why would you Prevent him from from taking leave to go less than three hours away to be at the hospital for his child to be born when the civilian hospital isn't even going to ask if he's vaccinated.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: There's a couple of things that you said that I have to comment on that captain. I hope that captain is listening. If anyone knows that captain, please ensure that that captain hears this. You, sir, are a coward and I hope it keeps you awake every single night. [00:31:00] This makes me so angry that people know what's right and then they do what's wrong.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's when you know what's right, you must do what's right. And guidance is guidance. Guidance is not law. We are not bound as physicians by The guidance is not legally binding. And if, if the military says, well, these are the reasons why we say that we can approve it, that's wrong. That's not how medicine works.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Medicine, uh, sorry, I'm just very upset right now. Medicine works by a physician evaluating the patient and together making a decision what's best for that patient. I'll I am not the captain of that ship. The patient is the captain of that ship. I am not beholden to the military. I am beholden to the patient.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I tell them, yeah, there's rocks over there, but if you want to go crash into those rocks, that's up to you. I think you should go this way. And that's why I issued medical exemptions. Because I, I could see that there's products in here that are not valid for human use. They're for research use only. We can't even use them in, in veterinary medicine.[00:32:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it just, it makes me so angry to hear that someone knew what was right. And yet, and told the patient, yeah, you probably shouldn't get it, but I'm not going to give you any way of protecting you. And, and that other idea that you said that the FAA, or that there was pilots that were concerned, that what if there was some cardiac event mid air?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That has actually happened now. That has been reported through Terminal CWO, that There was a pilot student, who was in, I don't know what seat, I think it was the left seat. And, they were flying Nap of the Earth, and he had a cardiac event, and died in the helicopter. And they yanked him out of the seat, took over the helicopter, landed it, and got him a defibrillator.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Before he completely deceased, they were able to bring, restart his heart, but he literally died at the control seat. So this is not some thing that could happen, it's something that has actually happened at this point now. And the military refuses to do an investigation into it because there was nothing wrong with the helicopter.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: [00:33:00] It was a human event. Well, we should figure out why. Why a young, healthy man is having His heart stopped while he died mid air at a low altitude flying a helicopter.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: No, you're, you're, you're absolutely right. And again, you know, Lieutenant Colonel Long has been at the forefront of this trying to discuss these concerns and get people to pay attention. But I'll just go back to Brandon's case and, and the battle that we're in now, you know, Brandon did nothing wrong. He has been cleared of every possible thing that he could have done wrong.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: He's only, the only thing he did wrong. Um, was asked questions about the safety and efficacy of an experimental product and take a stand to say, you know, uh, federal law requires that this be FDA approved and that the FDA approved product be made available before I take it. And I have concerns and questions about that.[00:34:00]
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And, and this is what he went through. So, you know, now he's in a situation where he did receive, um, this experimental. Product he, he had to make that choice. He didn't really have a choice in it. He had to do that. And so far, I mean, because he takes good care of himself, he's been healthy and, and thank God for that.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: But just that hesitancy, just asking questions. He's still being treated, you know, like, like a public enemy to his leadership and his chain of command. And it takes. You know, in his case, because of the flying evaluation board and everything else, it takes a tremendous amount. You know how this goes. It takes a tremendous amount of money to try to do this.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: It takes different attorneys with different areas of expertise to try to do this, um, and do this well. And, and it's, that's just taken a tremendous toll on his family as well.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I mean, all this takes is money, right, to defend. Um, Jessica, is, have you set up any sort of give, send, go that people can, can help you with?
Jessica Budge: Yes, we have, actually. Uh, just [00:35:00] maybe three weeks ago, we started one, um, Helping out with we need this attorney and we have to have so much, you know, in a retainer every at every minute. So we're trying to get that funded. Um, we can not only try and make things right for us, but for other people who are going through the same thing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I'll put the link down below and we're going to mention it a few more times of how to get there and how to help you and your family, uh, because this is just, this is not the country that we're supposed to be in where you have to defend yourself when you're innocent.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: No, you're, you're absolutely right, Sam. And I will just say as, as far as the give, send, go goes, and I'll just, I'll be transparent with everyone. You know, we, I've worked with Brandon and Jessica on some very specific, limited pieces of this. Um, one piece is to try to draw attention to it. The other is the record, the records [00:36:00] corrections piece.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: This Give Send Go campaign is really specifically focused on the, the FOIA acts, aspects of this and potential Freedom of Information Act litigation. So I'm not benefiting from that and not a dollar of that is going to me, but I encourage them to do it because. As Jessica said, not only is it critical to Brandon's case, but whatever attorney gets involved to do that, to help them, ultimately, it's going to set a precedent and FOIA request to show here's where the reprisal comes in.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And, and again, just like they ignored so many of the rules during COVID, they're essentially ignoring the law when it comes to the Freedom of Information Act. So that's why. They need to go there. And unfortunately, when we're talking about FOIA litigation, you're talking about federal litigation. So it is an expensive prospect for this family, um, and one that could take a couple of years to resolve.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: So the resources are definitely needed, but it won't just benefit, um, Brandon and Jessica, you know, I'm hopeful. Um, that some of the things we're doing on the [00:37:00] records correction piece that are already in motion will help them in a very real way. But this FOIA litigation is an opportunity to get additional information that needs to be out there about the course of steps that were taken because those are the stories that endure.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And those are the stories that help us learn from history and try to prevent this from happening again.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And hopefully there can be case law that can be set because of this. Where people can go, oh, well, let's look at Brandon V. D. O. D. And we can say, okay, this is the precedence that's been set. You can't do that because this is, this is why.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This has already been, you know, figured out in the legal system.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: You're absolutely right. And unfortunately, it's come to this. You know, you and I, before COVID, you and I would not have anticipated this. I know that, right? We wouldn't have anticipated the need for federal courts to get involved, to, to resolve things that should be simple military administrative matters or decisions that are made between a patient and And their physician to be in their best interest.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And now [00:38:00] federal courts have to engage in order to try to protect people's rights. Um, it's a shame that it's gotten to that and unfortunately it takes a lot of resources, but again, not everyone knows this. And I don't want to put you on the spot with some of your particular, you know, facts and circumstances of your cases, Sam, but as you know, the department of defense, the department of justice, their standard operating procedure in any of these cases is.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Is legal tactic after legal tactic to delay to file motion after motion to do things because they have unlimited resources, right? They just keep printing the money and then individuals are left to try to fight this behemoth of the federal government. It's never intended to be that way. You know, we're supposed to have equal access to the courts, but practically speaking, that's not the way it works anymore.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And for an individual in federal litigation, I mean, it's not unheard of at all for federal litigation to be. You know, a 250, 000, 500, 000 proposition to do it well, and the government can just keep printing money to combat that. So I just say that to say, any one [00:39:00] of these cases that can be done right and done well, um, can set the precedent, and then it, and it can be pushed back against that, that level of tyranny that we've seen over and over and over again.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Uh, Davis, you had mentioned that in the Uh, the board, uh, the, uh, was it Aviation Evaluation Board?
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Flying Evaluation Board, FEB.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The Flying Evaluation Board, that they, they came out with the right answer. When they were presented all the facts, they came out with the right answer. Now, I, I remember something like this with a Navy, uh, client of yours, that when they went to this, uh, Board of Corrections, or whatever board it was for him, when you presented all the facts, they came out with the right answer.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But it seems like people like, Mark Bashaw, when they go before the court, they present all the facts and they come out with the wrong answer. Is this seem to be a pattern that you're seeing?
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Yeah, that's a great, that's a great point. So in, in Brandon's case, and again, it was Matt [00:40:00] Berry, it was an attorney named Matt Berry that represented him very, very well at this flying evaluation board.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: But this is a situation where These board members, they, you know who the board members are, but they can't disclose who voted which way. So there's a level of, of protection for them as individuals when it, when it comes to that. And it just has to be a majority. And you're right. You're talking about Billy Mosley's case, right?
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Lieutenant Billy Mosley, who was someone who. We had the opportunity to present to, um, you know, senior Navy, a panel of three senior Navy officers, and we were able to show them to demonstrate the Navy was not making an FDA approved product available. For Lieutenant Mosley to take it was impossible for him to comply with an order to receive an FDA approved vaccine because one did not exist at the time.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: It did not exist and the Navy could not prove otherwise. And so what they did, they weren't lawyers. They weren't judges. They were in a room. They were tasked to do a job under the law under Navy [00:41:00] regulation. They took that oath seriously. And at one point, this Navy captain literally looked at the Navy Jacks and said, Yeah.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: You, you're telling me you can't prove to me this is a lawful order because you cannot prove this is an FDA approved product or that any of it's available and he goes, Do you know I've been asked to give this order to other sailors? I have a lot of questions here and it's going to impact the way I handle this within my chain of command.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Now, I don't know what the fallout was after that. I have no idea what that Navy captain did. But, but that's the point. Unlike a judge in, in Mark Bashaw's case, you know, was one individual judge. Everybody knows who that judge was. But again, unfortunately, in Mark's case, there were issues that were never fully briefed or presented to that judge to decide on.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: So I'm not confident. Um, that was great precedent, if you will, because the real issues related to the lawfulness of the order We're not fully addressed in that court the way they should have been. And then unfortunately, um, the appeals court, the court of appeals for the [00:42:00] army, um, never had an opportunity to take that case up because while the judge in, in Mark's case gave him no punishment and actually said this conviction should be set aside, recommended that they set aside that conviction, the judge.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: In that case did that, um, the, the army jag, the senior attorney for the United States army refused to send the case to a review before the army court of criminal appeals where this legal issue could have been addressed. So again, as you well know, Sam, and as you've tried to emphasize, there has never been a day in court to fully address the issues related to the lawfulness of this order.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: It has not been finally adjudicated. Again, I'm of the position that it's not just litigation tactics. They're afraid to answer that question because if they do actually get to the truth on that and it is presented to them the way it was in Lieutenant Mosley's board, the conclusions they're going to have to reach are not, are not good.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: They're not good because they're going to have to recognize this wasn't a lawful order.[00:43:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, it seems, it seems as though, as though the courtroom, the way it's set up to protect the, the innocent and, and make sure that the guilty are, are punished is actually been inverted to where it ensures that the guilty are not found guilty and the innocent continue to be innocent. Cause you just mentioned that, you know, Bashaw's case, but that's not due to his lawyers.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's due to the laws of the courtroom. Because they, they prevent certain information from coming out because you don't want to sway one way or the other. But in reality, is that, is that giving the full picture or is that preventing a full picture from being presented?
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: You're absolutely right. And I think one of the things that we've lost in our, in our nation, I don't want to go too much of a tangent on this, but you know, there was a principle that our founders believed in from the beginning called jury nullification.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And what does that even mean? That's this concept that that a jury can look at a case [00:44:00] and they can, they can decide to consider certain evidence. They can decide to consider certain information and they can say the application of the law, what the government is trying to do with the application of law of the law in this case is unjust.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: So someone could technically have violated the law, but the jury had it. Car juries had jury notification so they could literally say this is unjust what the government is asking us to do to convict this person or find against this person in this proceeding is unjust and we the jury can can make that finding that's a critical aspect of our legal system that has been lost over time and it's been a subtle shift people don't even realize the importance of that because the whole point of our our court system the whole point of due process the whole point of a judicial system is this idea That the citizens, this jury, right, a jury is supposed to be, as Thomas Jefferson said, the only anchor yet imagined in the mind of man by which a government can be held to the principles of [00:45:00] its constitution, right?
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: What does that mean? What did the founding fathers envisioned? They envisioned this idea that just like military members who swear an oath to support and defend the constitution when we put on the uniform, that jurors are taking an oath in their jury duty. To support and defend the constitution and to protect fellow citizens from tyranny, the tyranny of the government, and that's a powerful thing.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: So I think that in, in COVID in particular, because fear was involved and threats were involved in coercion and misinformation and, and censorship and all of this, we really lost the importance of some of these principles that have helped make our system great. And you're right. What happened in Mark's case was his lawyers tried to present things.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: I believe they should have been allowed to present them legally and lawfully. But the way that the army escaped accountability for what happened was doing everything they could to try to avoid having to address the issue of the lawfulness of the order. [00:46:00] And again, that's why I think the, you know, the request for review on appeal before the army court was denied because no one really fully addressed in Mark's case, the issue of the lawfulness of the order that was not litigated factually so that information would be heard.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Presented to demonstrate why it was an unlawful order. It was an administrative boards like Billy Mosley's where we're able to do that and be successful. And again, in Brandon's case, it was a separate issue. It wasn't related directly to that issue, but it was the same kind of issue where he'd already been punished.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: He'd already been reprimanded as retaliation and retribution when people knew it wasn't true, but that flying evaluation board, those independent officers. Looked at all of the information, they found no misconduct once they were presented with it, and then the army still tried to go against their findings at the end of the day.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: So again, I hope out of all of this, what we're learning is lessons, but we also understand, you know, Brandon and Jessica, I benefit nothing [00:47:00] from any gifts and go that happens with them. They're going to be, I'm going to help them find another attorney, but they're going to find an attorney. That's an expert in FOIA once this money is raised.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Um, but I, I believe very passionately in it because I believe it's going to help other people. It's going to help other clients. It's going to help people like you and I, to be able to see the truth of what happened through a freedom of information act request. So I, I hope that's something that can be funded and done well.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I'm interested to find out if we uncover some sort of good old boy network of communication that was going on behind the scenes, and if that's why this FOIA is not progressing as it should, because that needs to be exposed, because I, I believe that has happened to me in my situation as well, that there is a non official network, uh, communication that happens, and, oh, Siglof's causing problems, why don't we bring the hammer down on him, but it's never through any official channels.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Right. And I, I submitted a FOIA request in my own case. Um, and I, I retired from the [00:48:00] reserves in December of 2022. I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting for the response, uh, in my own personal case in my, to the, to my FOIA request. Um, so this is, yeah, I mean, I have on behalf of clients, I sent a FOIA request behalf of some of my Navy SEAL clients to Navy Surface Warfare.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting after three years for responses to some of those things. So I do, I do think it's really, really critically important. You know, Brandon is, Brandon is sort of a figurehead at this point for some of this FOIA litigation, but I do think his case is a great opportunity to expose some of the things that happened behind the scenes, because there's just this sense of, you know, I don't know what it is.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: I can't put my finger on it, what it is, but these leaders. In, in the military system that think they're somehow immune from any sort of accountability or consequences, but sometimes FOIA is the way to do that, because we get to see the actual communications and we got to see the intent behind it. Um, and maybe that's how we can hold some of these folks accountable.[00:49:00]
Jessica Budge: You know, when Brandon was being investigated and he was told he was not being investigated, the DOD was doing their investigation. Once that was completed, they had missed, never interviewed, you know, witnesses that they had never even taken into account. So we had filed a complaint and guess who investigated the DOD?
Jessica Budge: The DOD. They investigated themselves. So something wrong with this picture.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That must be a common new thing that these investigators do is they don't talk to witnesses and they don't talk to people who are directly involved because that happened a lot with me. They talked to a lot of people that weren't involved, that had a, you know, uh, an axe to grind, but they didn't talk to people who were directly involved, who actually have witnessed what was going on.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: You're absolutely right, and [00:50:00] unfortunately, that's something that I see far too often. Um, you know, I, I, I can honestly say in the work that I do, it is rare that I see a well done investigation. Occasionally we get very well done investigations, but it is very, very common. Unfortunately, I'll even provide, um, names and information, contact information for potential witnesses to investigating officers, and they won't even speak to them if there is a narrative.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Um, that the chain of command wants to follow. And again, that's where we look at accountability, you know, and, and often we're able to present that to a board or to a court martial panel, um, and be successful at the end of the day, because we have that information. And quite frankly, we'll make the government look very, very bad when they won't disclose things.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Um, to us because we'll say to board members or to a court martial panel, there's information we ask for. We ask for it properly. It would provide you with critical information. You need to do justice in this case, and they've refused to provide it. And I can tell you almost without exception. [00:51:00] What happens when you have an independent board or a court martial panel?
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: They will, they will acquit, they will find no misconduct because they'll say, we're not doing that. Right. Unless there's, you know, unless they're biased in some way. So I've seen that over and over again, but you're absolutely right. I know you've experienced it. It's this idea that a investigation can be done in such a way that it's only looking to confirm the answer that command wants to hear.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: Right. So it's classic confirmation bias where they only look, only interview people that They only interview people that they can exert pressure on or they believe they believe will make you look bad without actually providing exculpatory information.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, Jessica and Davis, I want to thank you so much for coming on. What can you leave us with, Jessica? What's one thing that you want everyone to know? And at the end of that, I'd like for you to say the Gibson go one more time so that. Uh, we can hear it a few times. I can get it down in the link below and people can help support you in this.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Cause this is, when you're fighting the [00:52:00] government, it gets expensive very quickly.
Jessica Budge: It sure does. It's, it's just so expensive in a hurry. Um, and there's, there's a lot of different going on here. So it's a little complex, but, um, our hope is that again, we can get a little bit of justice out of this. It's long overdue.
Jessica Budge: And overdue for, unfortunately, a lot of other people. So it's our hope that we can help them and, um, and, and just make things right the way they're supposed to be, uh, give, send, go, I will have to provide you with that link. Okay.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I'll have it in the show notes down below. So you can just, any listener or viewer can just go down there and find it there.
Jessica Budge: Perfect. Thank you so much.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Davis. Is there anything [00:53:00] that you'd like to leave us with?
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: You know, I would just say that I, I tend to be optimistic in some respects and I remain optimistic in many respects. I think that there's so many good people that have come together and I've had the opportunity to meet so many people like you, Sam, who are not giving up on this fight or going to continue to push.
R. Davis Younts, Esq.: And again, I'll emphasize it once again. I think that Brandon's case is one that needs to be continued to brought into the daylight so people can understand what's happened to him. Um, the level of coercion that he faced and then just the retaliation and retribution. So I do hope people that can will have, um, The heart to, to support them and then just pray for us that, that the right attorney comes forward to address the FOIA issues and do that effectively so that we can use that to shine a light on this and get relief for this family.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I want to thank you both so much for coming on with me, for sharing this story and, and Jessica, we'll, we'll be praying for you and your family that, that you'll stay [00:54:00] strong throughout this and that God wraps his comfort around you and gives you comfort through this because it. You know, I've, I've gone through some tough times, still going through some tough, and it, it's so, it can be so disheartening, but you can also find the best joy because you realize joy is not dependent on the situation of life, but it comes from God.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so I just pray that, that you're filled with that joy, and that comfort, and that you're given strength to continue this fight, and that as a family, you're brought closer together.
Jessica Budge: Thank you so much. I really, really do appreciate that.
Jessica Budge: Thank you. God bless.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, in duty uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.[00:55:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you.
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114. Chewing the Fat With Dr. Robert Kiltz
Today I talk with Dr. Robert Kiltz about carnivore. Find more of Dr. Kiltz at: https://www.doctorkiltz.com/about/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCogDXio0z4rbQP9vTh2i8qg https://www.instagram.com/doctorkiltz/?hl=en .
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If you would like to purchase better than grass fed and grass finished beef that will never get mRNA injections, never get growth hormones and never get antibiotics check out mycleanbeef.com/afterhours
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114. Chewing the Fat with Dr. Robert Kiltz
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Dr. Robert Kiltz: [00:00:00] I actually say the plants are the predators and we are the prey. They are taking good control of us. Grass and grains will fry our brains and they cause war, pestilence, disease, everywhere.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you've noticed I've been wearing this t shirt for a few episodes now, I have them available on eBay. Check out the links below to get your size.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given MRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow that gives birth to the calf.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell [00:01:00] bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Check out MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours. MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours.
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff.
Nurse Kelly: On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything.
Nurse Kelly: And to have the courage to stand for the truth.[00:02:00]
Nurse Kelly: And now, to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much for joining me again. I first want to give a shout out to all my Patreon supporters. We've got Too Tough giving 30 a month. We've got an anonymous family donor giving 20 and 20 cents a month. We have the Plandemic Rippermando level at 17 and 76 cents with Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr. Anna, Frank, Brian, Shell, Brantley, and Gary. We have the Self Made Level at 10 with Kevin and Pat and Bev. The Refined Not Burned Level at 5 a month with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick, Mary, Amanda. Addison Mulder is giving 3 a month. We have Frank giving 1. 50 a month. And we have the Courage is Contagious at 1 a month with Jay, SpessNasty, Durrell, Susan, BB King, and Caleb.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And be sure and check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours for the best steaks that I've ever cooked and I'm sure that you've ever cooked as well. Next, my next guest is Dr. Kiltz. He's a world renowned [00:03:00] fertility doctor. He's been featured on the Wall Street Journal, CNBC, Parents Magazine, The Today Show, and many more.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: All for reducing the cost of in vitro fertilization. And the way he does this is by diet. Dr. Kiltz is a diplomat of the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology and fellowship trained in board certified reproductive endocrinology and infertility. Dr. Kiltz, thank you so much for coming on with us today.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Sam, thank you for my invitation. Please, Robert, uh, I'm so grateful that you've invited me here and this is, uh, a subject that I think is so important for everyone to hear about.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So tell me where you start with patients, how you bring this idea, this, because what I've noticed is it. When I discovered carnivore, I was walking around like I was in a cloud.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Like I didn't know left from right, up from down, because it turned everything I knew and flipped it completely on its head. Eat more meat? But I just read an article last month, [00:04:00] doctor, that, uh, meat causes diabetes. How do, how do you square that off with patients?
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Well, I, I usually ask them is if what they're doing is not making them better, why wouldn't they be open to something completely opposite and, you know, is it a conspiracy that someone's trying to kill us all and control us all? I have no idea. I actually say the plants are the predators and we are the prey.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: They're taking good control of us. But ultimately, I have no idea. I actually say Uh, people call me for advice how to get pregnant, have a baby, reduce miscarriages, uh, and I, I love talking about overall health and wellness, both in the mind and the body, which all are one essentially. But if I can inspire you to think differently than we've all been taught, why wouldn't you open up your mind for a moment and just be imaginative that there is something opposite?
Dr. Robert Kiltz: I talked to a young lady yesterday. Who had, who had Ehlers [00:05:00] Danlos, she had every inflammatory condition in the world. She was on social security and, and she couldn't work. And, um, her mind couldn't quite open up to the possibility that, that. A diet like carnivore was better than the drug she was using, uh, but I didn't, I didn't give up on her.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: I kept the story going and, uh, I think it's one thing we need to be open to doing as doctors, clinicians, um, healthcare providers, healthcare, not sick care providers. If I can help you be healthy without ever needing me as a doctor, I've done my job.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right. Now, obviously there's some problems with that is, I mean, you and I are on the same page that we would rather see healthy people and never have to see them again, but the, the overwhelming majority of medicine is going a different direction here.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Take this. And then we'll give you this for the side effect of that. And then a side effect, you know, another medication for the other side effects and side effects. And now we're [00:06:00] polypharmacy or 20 meds deep. And that's not the goal
Dr. Robert Kiltz: where we're trained in diagnosing disease and differentiating which, which drugs, dissections, or other specialists you might need in order to help you with our, your problem.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: What we haven't been trained at is The cause of disease and I now have figured it out because personally I suffered arthritis, psoriasis, migraines, kidney stones, bowel bleeding. I'll go down the list. Depression, anxiety, fearfulness, inferiority complex. I'll go down the list. When I went from a plant based low animal fat diet lean meat and switched it to primarily fatty meat, carnivore, salt and water.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Everything went away in like one month, and I've never felt better in my [00:07:00] life, and I'm like, Whoa, what have I been doing to my patients and never asking them about what they eat ever to a point where I make it a point to ask them, What do you eat? What is your diet? And they usually say healthy, organic, clean, balanced.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: And I'm like, No, no, exactly. What do you buy? And what do you put in your mouth? That's critical for me to know the likely cause of your problems and every disease you're suffering from. That's amazing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I mean, one thing I'd love to dive into you, uh, into with you is the plants because you mentioned plants are the predators.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, you know, I'd love to go into that deeper because I remember learning about, I lived in Alaska and I remember the rabbit population, they'd say would, would fluctuate. And I assumed in my ignorance, I assumed that it was due to predators as the rabbit population go up, the predator population go up and that would drive them back down.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And in reality, [00:08:00] the plants release a, some sort of signal to other plants that keep propagating that signal that causes the female rabbits to abort their fetus. That should terrify everyone.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Well, if you look at the United States Department of Agriculture's journal on plant poisoning, uh, they're looking for plants that harm the livestock because when the livestock get damaged and sick, they lose money.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: But when you and I get sick They make money. And so is it a conspiracy, uh, you know, I'm not here to sort of push that paradigm, but I'm here to push the fact that I've learned something opposite and plants make chemicals, heroin, cocaine, marijuana, nicotine, caffeine. are all highly addictive chemicals that everyone is using and considering much of it now marijuana is part of that.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Oh, it's an okay thing to take. [00:09:00] Um, you know, what are we thinking? What are we doing? And, and the point you are, what you eat pigs, cows, and sheep eat grass and grains. Lions eat pigs, cows, and sheep. Would you rather be a lion or a pig, cow, and sheep? Lions never line up. They're wild type. Uh, they're not easy to control.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Uh, but pigs, cows, and sheep, you can control them. Corral them. Convince them that, you know, uh, you're the leader. But, but in fact, lions are not easy. And we're lions. Through and through. We evolved as hunters. We can gather and we can eat plants. You can do that, but that doesn't mean it's overall good for you.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: But if you're sick and suffering, I always say, look to the food you're eating. Likely it's plants, and there's so many plants that contain chemicals to cause miscarriage. To cause, to cause infertility, to cause loss of libido [00:10:00] on both sexes, and, and to damage your brain. And plants are made of sugar. Sugar in your gut ferments.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: That means the microbes in the gut, bacteria and yeast, love to eat the plants, the fiber, and they make heat, alcohol, aldehydes, and methane gas. Is that good for you? No, but we feed our children plant based food. And even when you say, when you say processed food, um, it doesn't matter if it's kale, lettuce, asparagus, brussel sprouts, or it's, or it's some processed, uh, wheat flour that you're making some other product out of.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: That essentially, if you think about flour, It's the, it's the, the, the number one addictive chemical that human beings have ever discovered and then invented if you [00:11:00] think about it. And without that, you know, we propagated the, the, the, the, the population of the world to grow exponentially. by feeding us sugar, which ultimately is deadly for us, which again is kind of radical concept.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: But I, I have written about this. I talk about it. I blog about it. Uh, I'm convinced if I can help you or anyone else in this world find health and wellness by simply switching over to mostly fatty meat and you minimize plant material, you'll be healthier than you've ever known.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Oh, 100%. You know, before we started filming, I, I mentioned that I had two patients with rheumatoid arthritis.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They went on beef, salt, and water, and their symptoms went away completely. They stopped all their medications. I had a guy who was taking, I don't think I mentioned this, but 80 units of insulin every day. Every day, and in the first [00:12:00] week, he went down to 10 units, and within two months, he was off of everything for blood pressure, for diabetes, for everything.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's like, you put the right fuel in the machine, you get the proper performance.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: The beauty of social medicine, social media, is we're now able to share all this information without your doctor, without the experts, without the government, um, with, with simply, you have the knowledge To seek out by finding people like yourself, Sam, that are sharing knowledge that everyone can listen and learn from.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: That's the beauty of, of what's going on today. Used to be you had to get accepted to medical school, get allowed even into the university library. I mean, even if you want to find many, uh, many articles online today. You have to you have to pay for them. [00:13:00] Uh, but but open access is what we should all have around the globe and that's where health and wellness comes in and I think Each and every one of us has the right to learn how to care for ourselves medically, scientifically, and, and, and, and spiritually also.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I mean, all the nutrition information that I gleaned was not from medical school. It was only one hour in medical school. And I taught it to myself by following doctors like yourself and Dr. Ken Berry and Sean Baker and Paul Saladino. I mean, the list goes on, um, Jason Fung and by learning from them. You can learn so much more when you're not looking at the, the approved sources, you know, the fact checkers, because all this information, they go, Oh, you can't eat that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's, it goes back to, are you a lion and you're not going to do what they tell you? Or are you going to be an animal that does whatever it's told?
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Right, right. We're, we are essentially domesticated animals, [00:14:00] lions and wolves that are fed plants. become domesticated cats and dogs, which also get every disease that we get because dogs and cats are carnivores that have been fed a plant based diet.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: And just look at the cat and dog food that you buy at your local, uh, uh, food mart for, for animals. And it's sad to me. But it's, I'm inspired by what we're all sharing here in the carnivore world. Keto is good, but carnivore is like amazing. And again, you can be a vegan, vegetarian, Mediterranean, pescatarian.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: You can be whatever you want. But if you're suffering and you want to eliminate doctors and drugs and dissections, carnivore.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Exactly. And you know, like you said, some people can't do carnivore. Start with keto. Start with, start with anything. And then as you go more and more, you'll [00:15:00] discover, hey, I feel better when I eat more fatty meat.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I, my joints quit hurting.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Yes.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Yes. Lions that don't eat meat. Become meat. So any human being that says to me, well, I can't eat meat. I am like, well, you are a lion. So you have all the fixings to eat meat, but we've psychologically Convinced you that meat is bad that you're going to get cancer Um, you've never seen meat in the toilet.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: I'm, sorry. It doesn't come out the other end Vegetables do. Plants do. That's it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's great. Yeah. Everyone's, everyone knows what you're talking about there. Um, yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: You know, again, we all piss, poop, fart, burp, uh, smell. Uh, we all are human beings and, and, and the beauty of, of carnivore. And when I fatty meat, [00:16:00] saltwater is the foundation of carnivore to me. And I think the organ meats like the liver are great, but You don't have to eat them.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: It's okay. You get every mineral and vitamin, every micro and macronutrient by eating fatty meat. And the adipose tissue, which most people cut off when they're eating their meat, which is deadly to do. You eat the fat. It provides the minerals, the vitamins, and it suppresses inflammation in the gut. When you eat the fat, that's critical to know.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So let's go into the fat and how that works a little bit more, because that, that is an interesting thing. And that's when I had that patient go from 80 units down to 10 units of insulin in a week, it's obvious. It's the saturated fat that works like a signaling molecule that makes you more insulin sensitive.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Whereas the polyunsaturated fatty acids that we're told to [00:17:00] eat, all these bad oils, vegetable oils, it makes you more insulin sensitive. It's like a signaling molecule.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Well, I think the killer is a plant based, protein based low fat diet. So I don't know how deadly plant oils really are. There really hasn't been a good study on that, in my opinion, because everyone that's eating plant oils is still likely eating plants and protein and no fat.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Okay? So when you eat food, it breaks down to amino acids from proteins, simple sugars from carbs, and fatty acids from fat. In that also comes the [00:18:00] minerals and the vitamins that are important, but also the anti nutrients and the chemicals that are harmful and helpful. But basically, let's just take amino acids, simple sugars and fatty acids.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: So fat. When you eat it, it goes to the lymphatics and it's distributed everywhere in your body. When you eat protein, amino acids, carbs, simple sugars, they both go to the liver. Insulin converts both of those things to fat in the liver, but because a sugar based. Amino acid based diet damages your liver cells.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: It suppresses your liver's ability to convert those things to fat via insulin. So your amino acid and sugar levels begin to rise. Your insulin level begins to rise. [00:19:00] And since most people eat three to six meals a day, their gut is always full of food, which is always digesting 24 7, 365. So, that means you're always delivering amino acids and sugars to your liver.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: So, even though you think you're fasting, your gut still has food in it. As long as your GI tract has food in it, you're sending sugars, which glycate, which rust your cells. And you're sending amino acids, which go to the liver, they're converted to sugars, and then they're converted to fat via insulin.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: That's the simple story. So when you say, or anyone says, insulin resistance or insulin sensitivity, [00:20:00] insulin resistance is liver damage. Insulin sensitivity just means that your liver works better. and you have insulin to convert the amino acids and sugars fast enough to fat. So fat is actually the most important molecule in our body, adipose tissue.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: But we blame fat and obese people for the cause of disease when in fact has nothing to do with the cause of disease. The cause of disease. is a low animal fat and a high plant protein based diet.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: So, fat, when you eat it, and when I say fat, I'm talking about animal fat. It suppresses the microbes in the mouth, the esophagus, and the gut. The microbes love to [00:21:00] cause havoc in our bodies, does it not? Mineral, I'm sorry, I mean, uh, bacteria, yeast, and viruses all run havoc in our bodies. And the gut is the single leading place for that to happen.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: But we don't eat fat, so everyone is just fueling the microbial growth. And if you read James Henry Salisbury's work on Salisbury steak, he found that the microbes in the gut proliferate on a plant based diet. And when he shifted to a meat based diet, the microbes were suppressed, the gut healed, his men in the Civil War got better.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: And voila, Salisbury State Guide, a doctor, Albany Med, 1850. This is not new stuff. You don't need a new scientific paper to give you the answer. It's really already there in our history. [00:22:00] And our evolution, our archeology and anthropologic studies of humanity.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, yeah. If you look back in history and you look at, well, let's say what the Egyptians fed the people that worked for them, the slaves compared to what the Egyptians ate, there's a difference in their diet and the differences meat
Dr. Robert Kiltz: bread and beer.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: They fed the, the, the slaves, soldiers, peasants, and prisoners. Bread and beer, the pharaohs, the kings, the queens, all the, the hierarchy, yes, they ate more meat, but they also were highly diseased, but mostly the peasants, prisoners, slaves and soldiers, which basically are all told to eat fruits, fiber, vegetables, seeds, nuts, lean meat, and preferably protein from a plant, which I've never seen protein in a plant.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Personally.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Plants don't have proteins that we can use. I mean, it's just, [00:23:00] they don't exist.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Well, I mean, basically. P protein. I mean, again, when we say protein, we're usually talking about muscle meat, but adipose tissue contains proteins, amino acids, simple sugars, fatty acids, all the minerals and vitamins.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: If you look at bears that hibernate, they lose fat, they lose no muscle and no bone marrow bone mass. Um, and they basically hibernate and gestate for six to eight months. Well, how is it that they didn't lose muscle mass or bone mass? It's because fat is the building block for every single cell of our body, including a baby.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, how do you get people to start changing their eating habits? Like, what do you say, start with this, start with that, or just jump straight in? [00:24:00]
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Well, listen to someone like yourself, or myself, or Baker, Bella. I mean, there are so many more people growing in this carnivore space. Begin to listen and learn from others.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: We have a course and I've got books on Our Mighty Tribe or drkiltz. com It really is keep it simple. I do bacon, eggs, butter, beef and salt. But if you want to just do fatty meat, salt water, it's all run. You want to eat three to six times a day, I don't care. I generally recommend one meal. at night is the very best way, but if you want to do a snack or two, it's, it's a beef and butter, a little bit of salt.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: It's amazing. I recommend that highly, but you know, they're the challenge with nutrition. If you think about it, the initial nutritional education came out of the seventh day of Venice church, which basically shared a [00:25:00] story of a plant based diet. And if you look at. Uh, at, uh, uh, uh, the Kellogg's brothers, they were also sharing a plant-based diet.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: I think they're controlling diets to make us sick, weak and meek. Uh, maybe it's intentional, maybe it's not, maybe it's trying to help people, but at the end of the day, it's highly hurtful to all of us to eat a plant based, low animal fat diet. So, if you want to be controlled, uh, you'll find the science about a vegan vegetarian diet is, uh, not built in science.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: It's, it's built in, I call it snake oil, uh, uh, uh, doo doo data that is basically trying to convince you to be a controlled human being. And the diet we're fed, uh, is leading us to damage. And, uh, if you look at the Seventh Day Adventists, they're one of the largest, uh, controllers of, of cereals in the globe.[00:26:00]
Dr. Robert Kiltz: If you look at Graham from Graham Crackers, the, the, the, uh, the Kellogg's brothers and many others, they were very controlling of the world of, of, of, of breaking down wheat into a substance that's highly antigenic, it's all sugar, and it's highly addictive.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I think when you see the, I saw this study, I think it was in high school when it came out that Oreos hit the same center in the brain and are just as addictive as heroin. It's, it's mind blowing. It's like,
Dr. Robert Kiltz: well, if you think about it, the taste of sugar naturally when it was available before agriculture.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: It was only for a very short amount of time and it was to get us to eat it. Now, maybe the plants are saying, Hey, they'll eat us, eat the seeds, they'll [00:27:00] propagate them around the world in their poop. Great place to put them. Plants are smart. Um, we also get value because nutritionally we get in sugar that goes to the liver and via insulin, it's converted to fat.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Fat is critical to store so that if there's a war. Gosh, what's happening in the world of war and people can't get food, they better be fat so they can survive more days without it. Uh, but we've lived thousands if not millions of years with a hardship to find food. And so we are supposed to get fat fast, we're supposed to eat less frequently, and the fat is the only fuel of your body.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: This idea to be skinny Is your brain is like, are you dumb? Like, what are you doing? Trying to like burn all your calories in two days and then not eat for a week in order to be skinny and then the famine comes or the sickness comes. And you're [00:28:00] screwed.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What is a body percent fat that you like to see in your women who are trying to become pregnant who are having infertility issues? Because either too low of a body percent fat is bad and too high is also not helpful. Well,
Dr. Robert Kiltz: too little fat is the real culprit, but too much fat is not the cause of disease.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: It's the food you're eating right now that contains the chemicals, the sugars, the antigens, and the fermentation in your gut that's damaging every nook and cranny of your body. And so your, your brain, your hypothalamus, your pituitary, your thyroid, your adrenals, your renals, your ovaries, your testicles are all damaged based on the.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone that's in plants. The heroin, cocaine, cyanide, [00:29:00] nicotine, caffeine that are in plants that damage your organs. The sugars that damage the proteins. So the sugars glycate, they damage the protein, they cause it to have misalignment and abnormal folding that makes it like a, a prion or a, or a, uh, an amyloid particle that is going to be deposited.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: And every nook and cranny of your body, it's going to cause disease. It's going to cause cancer, stroke, hypertension, diabetes, ALS, MS, lupus. I go down the list of every disease. You name it. I will bet that it's likely secondary to a plant based, low animal fat diet. And so, if you're obese, you're carrying many calories to go weeks, if not months, and even a year without eating.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: And so, by simply reducing the food frequency, or the plant frequency, And [00:30:00] eating more fat, even when you're fat, the BMI doesn't matter, except a low BMI. Remember, if you don't have fat, the fats, the fat adipose tissue is providing. Acetyl CoA, the minerals and vitamins and all the nutrients and the, the, the, the cofactors your body requires.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: They're not, they're not stored in your muscles or your bone marrow. They're stored in your adipose tissue. You want to think of fat as the most amazing thing ever invented or created by nature. It's the only thing that allows you to go through the winter.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's a great way to store energy, store fat, uh, soluble nutrients, I mean all of that just gets stored away in a small compact area that doesn't melt, doesn't burn, doesn't go rancid. It's amazing. [00:31:00]
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Well, you store everything in fat, adipose tissue. I don't care if it's water soluble or fat soluble. Because, because, Number one is you have water in your fat cells, in your cytoplasm, in your cells, so, so you're gonna have the hydrophobic and the hydrophilic side of things, plus the charges that are determined by the glyco biome.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: The sugar layers bind to every cell structure of your body to give your proteins the proper charge. The proper shape in order to determine their proper function. So, people still think glucose is energy. It is not direct energy for the mitochondria. It must be converted to fat in the liver via insulin, or you cannot use it as energy.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: The same thing with amino acids, which is completely opposite of what people think.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right, it's the opposite of what we're taught in school, med school, [00:32:00] high school, I mean all of them.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Well, even science today, most people still think that Ketosis means you go from burning sugar to burning fat. No way.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So can you go into ketosis a bit more then?
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Well, I don't ever remember. I don't really measure ketosis, uh, but ketone bodies, acetyl-CoA is a ketone body, acetyl a, uh, acetate, beta hydroxybutyrate, acetone. They're all ketone bodies along with acetyl-CoA. So. You always have ketone bodies in your, in your bloodstream.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: They, the glucose levels are high, the sugar levels. And by the way, there are about 10 to 11 sugars that are important in the human body that are for glycosylation. So I think, you know, people think, well, I'm burning sugar because I'm eating sugar. Well, no, your sugar [00:33:00] levels are going up in your bloodstream, in your cytoplasm, in your brain, everywhere in your body.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: And so your, your liver's job along with insulin is to say, wait a minute, you just took in food. My job in the food you're taking in is to store it as fat, convert it to fat. Um, you're going to use some of the amino acids and some of the, the, the sugars or the glycans, the monosaccharides and use them as glyc for the glycosylation.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: And also for, for protein building, but any other functions in the body that are required
Dr. Robert Kiltz: inflammatory food, which is going to deposit everywhere in your body. I mean, do you think if [00:34:00] you're going to eat cayenne pepper, it's only going to go through your gut and go to the liver and then where it goes systemically, it causes damage to every. Cell of your body, but you just don't know it except on your tongue or in your lips or your mouth where you're where you're feeling it.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Um, that's why I tell people you have to be very, very, uh, discerning in what you put in your mouth. Um, and you might think, wow, I can tolerate all these hot peppers and all these things. Yeah, but they're doing damage deep inside you silently.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if cayenne pepper isn't clearly obvious a, that the hotness of it and other peppers, a self defense for the plant because it gets hotter as you get closer to the seeds.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I don't know. I, I can't show you something if you can't see that. That is obviously a self defense
Dr. Robert Kiltz: onions, garlic, peppers. Uh, but there's solanace in, in, uh, in, uh, in [00:35:00] potatoes, uh, uh, and, and all the plants. I don't care what it is. Uh, look at the U. S. Department of Agriculture's Journal on Plant Poisoning, uh, Plants That Kill.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Uh, look at, uh, Anthony Chafee's work. Uh, this stuff is not new. It's been around forever. Uh, we're lied to by the lions that want to keep you lined up week and week.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, and we've had Anthony on this show before. Go check him out. Uh, I don't remember the episode number before, but he was phenomenal. Just amazing, uh, information.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Yeah, Anthony is a rock star. So many people. I mean, I love Sean Baker because he's very simple. Uh, I mean, he's very knowledgeable. He really goes deep into the science, but ultimately it's steak. You don't need organ meats. Just eat the steak and focus on fatty steak. Because the fat contains so many of the minerals and vitamins your body requires.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: And there's something called protein poisoning rapid starvation. And so I [00:36:00] think most people are eating a plant based Lean meat diet, which is contributing to every disease we doctors diagnose and then, uh, likely define a specialist, uh, or a drug or a dissection that's gonna help you survive. I hope you survive this and, and, but, but in fact, too many people are dying.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: I have a list on my board at home. I talk about my people that I, I know that have passed away and I believe it's secondary to a plant based low animal fat diet and eating three to six meals a day and focusing on negativity in your mind most of the time.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So what do you do to help get people to focus on the right things in their mind?
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Well, I think the, the mental side. Is number one and I talk a lot about positivity. Uh, I read and listen and watch a [00:37:00] lot of, uh, content on all of these things. I've written books on these things. Um, I do my 5 a. m. meet up every morning, Monday through Friday, hopefully to inspire some of us. To think differently, to eat differently, to live differently, and you gotta break the mold.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: We're living in this mold of modern world, and we have many blessings of the modern world, but we have also many sins of the modern world, and we need to learn to share this. You know, look at DrGiltz. com, MindBodySmile. com. Um, I have a book on daily inspirations, daily intentions. I'm infinitely reading other people's books.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: I love all the Bibles of all the religions of the world that are going to share positivity. Love, kindness, generosity. And that's why I think it's important in this keto carnivore world, I'm not here to put anyone else down, even a vegan, vegetarian, Mediterranean, anyone. I don't care. [00:38:00] I'm willing. I want to listen to your story.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: I, you know, I've learned some things that are radical. Um, and don't trust or believe me, by the way, you're the only one that can take care of you. I'm not your doctor. Uh, I can, you know, help you in this, but ultimately you need to take responsibility for everything in your life. Everything. If whatever you think about the priest, your parents, the Pope, the president, you're responsible for that story.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Why wouldn't you make it the very best story ever that God created all of us to teach us? To instruct us to guide us to build us to be better every single day. So, how do I do it? I talk about it all the time.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I think it's great. And I like how you approach this because even the vegans and the vegetarians, I think the benefit that they have is that they've said the standard American diet is no good.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, they're at least on a path. They might [00:39:00] be a little different than what I think, but they're at least going in a direction because they're saying something is wrong. I'm looking for a different answer. Um, I just hope that They can see the answer that we've seen because it's so radical. It's so different.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it can be scary for some people, but it, I've seen it change lives. I've seen it change minds. I've seen it change marriages.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: It is the thing, uh, we need to minimize or eliminate alcohol. Even coffee and tea of any significance may not be good for us and may be a contributing factor to some of our diseases or damage to our body.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Uh, I, and, and some people can tolerate, um, uh, cow milk products. Some people can't, some people do better on butter, uh, which is fatty or cream, and some people can't. But you have to find what fits for you. Be experimental in your life. You know, don't, don't take my word, my dogma for this. Um, you got to go out there and you got to create some better story.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: You're going to say, [00:40:00] that kilts guy doesn't know what he's talking about. And, and, and I'm right, you're right. I'm just sharing something that at, I'm almost 68, at 55 I went carnivore, I learned to fly airplanes in that same year by the way, and uh, and, and I'm, I'm constantly learning and listening to people like yourself and, and I'll listen to vegan vegetarians, mediterraneans, pescatarians, I'll listen to everyone.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: But I also make sure that I listen to things and I'll spend more time going like, you know, nope. See you later. Bye. Or wow, this is really inspiring. I want to learn more, but I have learned that if you, if you read or listen to something that you don't believe in, but you want to do it in a way where you're going like, huh, I wonder if that's really true.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Let me study it a little bit more. Let me try to find angles where I might be able to say yes. Or say, no. And, and, and so we're [00:41:00] human beings are like the most amazing organism in the universe, but so is a rock.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Think of all the things we've made out of rocks, right? Without the rocks, the minerals that come out of rocks, you know, the metals that come out of rocks, uh, or the sculpture that's come out of rocks, we would be in this great, amazing place of humanity that we are today.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I wouldn't even be able to drive to where we are right now, because likely you crossed a bridge at some point that's made out of crushed up rocks.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Yeah. And look at us conversing here. In some way, you know, someone else did something that people said, Oh, no way, no way. And by the way, do a vegetarian version of, of keto paleo or a Mediterranean version. Uh, but, but I think the vegan side is really hard. [00:42:00] Because you just can't get all the minerals and vitamins and the nutrients your body requires.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: And plus, as a purely plant based diet, you're getting a lot of anti nutrients. So you have to be very careful. I mean, infants have died and young children have died on a plant based only diet. And adults don't understand that you need to take an industrially modern produced supplement. That still may not provide everything you need and won't counteract the anti nutrient, uh, particles and the hallucinogenic particles that come in plants.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I think one thing that's really striking when I first started down this road of Carnivore is when I realized, you know, a hundred years ago, I could not get a ripe banana and a ripe orange in the same store at the same time. So how could I eat all the colors of the rainbow and get all these things from one tropical climate and one arid climate?[00:43:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I couldn't. Even a hundred years ago. So how did humans eat that way? Why are doctors saying that? It doesn't make sense. And if I eat only plants, how could I have done that a thousand years ago? Because I need B12. I need vitamin D. I need all these things that you can't get from plants.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: There was a reason we were hunters.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: There's a reason if you look around the world at, uh, Aboriginal People or, or, uh, I was watching a show on the San people from, from, uh, South, uh, Africa region, S A N, amazing people, hunters. Um, and they're now fed flour and sugars, by the way, and I, and I see the, the side effects just like other aboriginal peoples around the world, and, and we are hunters through and through, meat is the most important thing we eat, and you can live on fatty meat alone without supplements, but you cannot eat on a plant based diet alone [00:44:00] without supplements.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: That's the problem.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Also, you know, having the medicine mind thinking, Oh, I remember them talking about this, you know, uh, chemotherapeutic agent originally being found in a plant. It's like, wait a second. The whole point of chemotherapy is to kill the fast growing cells before you kill the rest of the human. And if we're taking them from plants, then maybe there's something bad in plants.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Maybe not every plant. There's some plants that have some bad stuff in them. Well, I'm
Dr. Robert Kiltz: in modern medicine. I'm a man of modern medicine, and I still practice, uh, uh, standard, uh, medicine and surgeon and I'll do a lot of reproductive immunology and the medications we utilize that come from plants originally and have been modified in the modern world have value based on the thousands of years of an agriculture based diet, which likely is the single leading cause of all of our problems.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: And I think for some people in this modern [00:45:00] world who still haven't seen this yet, we want to help them in the very best modern ways we can. But fasting and fat, a lot of people heal by just fasting and fat without the emergence of the drugs. I think the antimicrobials, the antifungal viral, and um, uh, and, and bacterial.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Are quite valuable since, uh, infectious agents are highly causative of the diseases we're all suffering in this world, but we're, we're likely creating it. And if you see the wars of the world, they're often over grains, grass and grains will fry our brains and they cause war pestilence disease everywhere.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: And, and essentially the power of the world is built in the control of the, of the plants. And although the Portuguese used to catch [00:46:00] cod abundantly, if you read the book by Kurlansky on cod, he uses one on salt, but because of cod and salt, they were able to preserve a highly valued food source, which was codfish, and feed it to the armies that were so important for the Uh, uh, the evolution of our taking over many populations of the world.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Unfortunately,
Dr. Robert Kiltz: I'm not a big fish fan.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's not as satisfying as beef.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: No, no, no, no. I don't think, I mean, we obviously, once we develop the ability to fish and net, but I think ultimately we were mainly hunters, uh, on dry land. Our DNA is that of a dry land hunting animal, not a swimming flying animal.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Dr. Kiltz, thank you so much. Where can we find you? Where, where can people [00:47:00] who are thirsty for the knowledge that you're giving, where can they find you?
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Uh, if you simply Google Dr. Kiltz, Dr. Kiltz will show up in one way or another. Uh, drkiltz.com. com. We're on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. Uh, we do something called the Kiltz Mighty Tribe.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Meets at 7. 30 p. m. currently. Eastern time on Mondays, everyone's welcome. And it's free for everyone. And, um, and, uh, I've written a number of books on Amazon. Uh, I love going to the meetups. I'm going to some of the other, uh, events, uh, KetoCon in Austin. I think we're going to something in Orlando. We'll get more information, but I think this is important that each and every person that find the value of how keto, carnivore, faith, and fasting has helped them, share it.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Put it out there. If those diseases you're suffering from are going away, you don't need the drugs with the doctors anymore, [00:48:00] share it. Amazing.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Absolutely. There's, there's a guy at church who's on the worship team with my wife and, you know, he's an older gentleman, but she just mentioned in passing one time carnivore.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: A few years later, or a couple, uh, about a year and a half later, he finally tried it and his arthritis is gone. He's slimmed down. He feels great. His wife has said he's like a new man. So share it.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Yeah. And, and I, I, I love, so everyone that finds this amazing thing that, that They should share it and you just speak at once be the example and begin to blog it and talk about it I mean everyone I I meet I talk about it and it's like, okay, there he goes.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Be careful He won't shut up for a while now But but again, it's I love doctors. I highly respect people in health care medicine I know that is not an easy job for so many people. Um, they don't know about this and I'm really, uh, [00:49:00] highly excited about the ability for all of us to share this around the globe.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: That is our job. To all languages, to all people, uh, meat must be available, uh, uh, preferably grass fed, grass finished, uh, pasture raised. I love grain finished. Personally, I don't think it really matters. Just get really fatty meat and share it with your family. Uh, moms that are breastfeeding should eat the fatty meat, uh, and their babies once they're done breastfeeding.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Eat the meat off the bone once you're done with the, with the milk off the breast.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you, Robert. Thank you, Dr. Kiltz. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. God bless.
Dr. Robert Kiltz: Sam, thank you so much. I really appreciate the invitation and look forward to keep sharing the journey.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yes, sir.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out [00:50:00] there, in duty uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the U. S. A. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if we compare what we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to [00:51:00] four other major state companies that sell bundles that have rib eyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value, and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out my clean beef.com/afterhours.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's my clean beef.com/afterhours. My clean beef.com/after hours.
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113. Ted and Mara Macie
Today I talk with Ted and Mara Macie. Ted is in the Navy and a whistleblower for DMED. Mara, Ted’s wife, is running for Floridas 5th congressional district.
If you would like to purchase better than grass fed and grass finished beef that will never get mRNA injections, never get growth hormones and never get antibiotics check out mycleanbeef.com/afterhours
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113. Ted and Mara Macie
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Mara Macie: [00:00:00]
Mara Macie: And those uniparty politics are why we don't see anything get done in our country, right from the local levels all the way to the national levels. The reason that we couldn't get a response from our congresspeople when we were reaching out to them about these mandates was because they all guard each other and they all guard their special interest groups and their lobbyists.
Mara Macie: They can't go against those people. That's why we have to do more investigation into who's running. for races around us. Because the grassroots candidates, we don't get that leash. We don't get that big sum of money that says, if you don't do our bidding, we don't pay you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the [00:01:00] USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow, that gives birth to the calf, that's raised on their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if we compare What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out My Clean beef.com/afterhours. That's my clean beef.com/afterhours, my clean beef.com/afterhours.[00:02:00]
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything
Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much for joining me again. I want to first give a shout out to all my Patreon supporters. We've got Too Tough at 30 a month. We've got an anonymous family donor giving 20. 20 a month. We have the Plandemic Reprimando, where Patreons give 17. 76 a month with Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna, Frank, Brian, Shell, and Brantley. Uh, Kevin gives 10, and Pat and Bev also give 10 a month. They were fined, not burned, at 5 a month with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, [00:03:00] Ken, Rick, Mary, and Amanda. Addison Mulder is giving 3 a month and Frank is giving 1. 50 a month. And then Courage is Contagious at 1 a month with Jay, SpessNasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, and Caleb.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much for being willing to help support me in this. Also, if you're interested, uh, please check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours for the best steak and meat ground beef you've ever had. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. I want to introduce our next two guests. This is the Macy family.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We have Mara and we have Ted. And Ted is a whistleblower. He's been pushing the envelope on what, um, Teresa Long, Dr. Long, Dr. Pete Chambers, and what I have initially brought forward. He's really pushed the envelope and brought a lot of really important information out. Ted, Mara, great to have you on. Thanks, Sam.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thanks for having us. So tell me what you've discovered, and Mara, you have some important information, too, that I believe you're running for an elected [00:04:00] position, is that correct?
Mara Macie: That is correct. Uh, U. S. Congress, District 5 in Florida.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Awesome. So hopefully this can help you get some more support.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So Ted, tell us what you've found and what you've discovered and what information you want to bring forward.
Ted Macie: All the information's out there, but, um, I believe that getting into more people, doing the podcast with you, um, and, and anyone we can is the most important thing that, uh, we can do. Um, but it's just, it's more of the same.
Ted Macie: Unfortunately, the things that we're, we're finding aren't surprising. Um, I wish there were, but they're not. Uh, and as you know, like we're in touch with Mark, the Shaw and yourself and Teresa and everybody. So we've been, we've been watching it, um, [00:05:00] for since then, 20, early 2022. And I know you guys are doing that before, but, um, it was important to keep an eye on it just because they said everything was fixed and, um, we got to take their word on it.
Ted Macie: So we kept following it and notice some signals and, um, and some of the typical things, some of them, not so much. But, uh, we were actually talking in our kitchen with Mark on speaker one day, and Mara was, she brought up, what about other things that you wouldn't associate with a shot? And we were like, yeah, let's check that out.
Ted Macie: So, um, fortunately I'm still on active duty and all the things that I say are of my own opinion and not the DoD. And, um, so I, I looked in into it, um, and we found that externally caused morbidities such as slips, trips and falls, [00:06:00] um, weather accidents, I forget the exact name of the ICD code, but. Um, things like that were raising like hundreds of percent, which is, uh, a little odd to say the least and everything we look into.
Ted Macie: It just creates more questions than answers. Um, so been on a mission lately to bring it out in the public so that other that we can have more pressure behind it to, um, get some answers, frankly, because it's important. And I, and we, we noticed it anecdotally as well. So the things that we look at kind of match real life.
Ted Macie: Um, and so anybody with a half a brain would, um, probably want to look into that, I would hope. So that's what we're doing now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The information that, um, Dr. Long, Dr. Chambers, uh, Mark Beshaw, and myself brought forward, one of the arguments [00:07:00] was, and, and there may be some legitimacy to these complaints, um, that all the information we brought forward, the, the numbers, May have been corrupted and, and this is what the government had said that there was a glitch in the system and that it was not legitimate.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now, what I claim that the biggest thing is we found the problem. We, we, our numbers may have been off because there may have been a glitch in the system or the glitch may have been, um, on purpose so that it looks like we're, we're wrong. Um, but now that they have allegedly corrected the information, you've been studying this.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Is that correct?
Ted Macie: Yes. Yep. So, um, the 1st, when I 1st went to, uh, bring information to the permanent subcommittee on investigations that was in January, um, Mara and I actually traveled to D. C. because sending emails can only do so much. And, um, being there in person and laying it out and having screenshots and everything printed out, uh, was, uh, [00:08:00] I think vital to get the point across.
Ted Macie: Um, so that's what we did. And, uh, then from there, Senator Johnson wrote a letter to, uh, SecDef's office, and they actually responded six months later. I think it was July. It wasn't quick. Yeah. It took up to July. Um, and surprisingly they, they were like, yep, it's right. So as far as we know, everything's functioning properly.
Ted Macie: And that's a problem because there are plenty of issues in there that we're seeing now.
Mara Macie: Well, it was a lose lose for them. Either admit that you can't get the system right, which taxpayers pay millions of dollars for, or say, we fixed it and that is the correct data. So, you know, it wasn't going to look good for them either way.
Ted Macie: And, uh, as you know, like Unisant [00:09:00] also has the contract for DMED as well as, uh, Medicare, Medicaid, and I believe something else too. So they, they run the show. They, they're quite actually being paid tens of millions of dollars for labor costs. So like in your, in your case, um, with the first whistleblowing, uh, data, they, I just find it hard to believe that they didn't recognize an issue for that long.
Ted Macie: When they have a team with tens of millions of dollars. So everything is just, it's suspect is what it comes down to. Like I was saying, it just raises more questions and gives answers.
Mara Macie: Typical government.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Have you been able to look into Unisent more and find out more about like, where they're incorporated, who owns them, any of that information?
Ted Macie: No, just things that come up in conversation. Yeah, [00:10:00] there's things we know, but I don't want to. Speak about them. There's a, but that's why we're pushing, um, for this to be to have an actual investigation. I mean, it's, it's an uphill battle and dealing with, um, D. C. it's, it's difficult because everybody has a stake in something, or they're afraid to.
Ted Macie: Um, uh, go against whatever the donor may be. I mean, we do a lot of that follow the money type of stuff. And it seems to be, um, the, uh, status quo up there, unfortunately. But that doesn't mean we have to give up or stop because we're not going to. Um, and you know, that's, it's done things such as like Jordan Carr, who was separated, the intel officer, you know her well, um, she ran for a state representative seat after she was [00:11:00] kicked out.
Ted Macie: Like, because we recognize that it's going to start locally. We're not going to change DC from the, from going from DC. It has to start locally. Um, and that's kind of what's been spying these, uh, military people and spouses to. And, you know, hopefully we can do something from, from there.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So tell me what you learned about this, Mara.
Mara Macie: Well, what I learned, I've always been active in politics in terms of paying attention to what was going on, especially on a national level, a local level is always a little bit different considering. Being a military spouse, you move a lot, so you don't get too involved in what's going on right around you, but you stay focused on what you know is going to [00:12:00] always be there, which is D.
Mara Macie: C. and the federal government, and when this all started, I, I was, I was shocked, to say the least, because it was years of almost, we've been together 20 years now, so it was like 18 years. I was, I was shocked, to say the least, because it was years of almost, we've been together 20 years now, so it was like 18 years.
Mara Macie: of being a part of this community that essentially turned its back on us. And. I couldn't believe that, especially after having just watched what happened with the election, I could not believe that our government wasn't doing anything to help service members. And I thought he was going to get kicked out, and until the injunction went in place in March.
Mara Macie: We were expecting, okay, maybe Ted should run for Congress. Little did we know, um, come March when that injunction happened, he just looks at me and he said, it's not me, it's you. And I jumped into politics full speed ahead. And, um, [00:13:00] we have to say the least, we have made quite an impact locally. And, um, like Ted was saying, we do a lot of follow the money.
Mara Macie: We have gotten involved throughout Florida and we have seen just how corrupt Florida politics are. As a matter of fact, all the attention Ted has been getting over the past couple of days. Uh, with some things that he put out, not one Florida politician will say a word because they don't want to bring any attention to either me or Ted.
Mara Macie: They don't want to gain any followers for me because they have their establishment guy in place, uh, John Rutherford, who gained a lot of national attention when he refused to vote for Jim Jordan for speaker and actually said that he wanted to teach Matt Gaetz a lesson. And, and that, that upset his constituents and he has done that on several occasions where they'll call and they don't get answers or they ask him to do [00:14:00] something specific and he just doesn't listen.
Mara Macie: He doesn't listen because he's part of that network in the, uh, RPOF, the Republican Party of Florida that really They pick who we're going to get to choose from. They pick who the Republican is. They pick, uh, the establishment picks who the Democrat is. And they're, it's kind of a win win for them either way because they get to play good cop, bad cop.
Mara Macie: If you get a Democrat in, the Republican Party of Florida gets to go, Well, we, this is, this is who we have to beat next time. Otherwise, the Republican that they're giving you to choose from. is their candidate, and they're just going to go along with uniparty politics, and those uniparty politics are why we don't see anything get done in our country, right from the local levels all the way to the national levels.
Mara Macie: The reason that we couldn't get a response from our congresspeople when we were reaching out to them about these mandates was because they all guard each other, and they all guard their special interest groups and their lobbyists. They can't go against those people. That's why we have to [00:15:00] do more investigation into who's running.
Mara Macie: for races around us, because the grassroots candidates, we don't get that leash. We don't get that big sum of money that says, if you don't do our bidding, we don't pay you. So people need to be more informed. People need to do their job. You can't just show up for a general election and expect that you're going to be able to elect someone that's going to represent you.
Mara Macie: They're not. You have to go to the primary and you have to vote against.
Ted Macie: It's actually, it's relatively simple once you get the hang of it. Um, like for instance, I'll look into FEC, the federal, uh, campaign donations. I mean, you basically search the candidate and it'll go to their pack. And I call it the, the Establishment Special. It's all the same stuff. BAE Systems, Johnson Johnson, Raytheon.
Ted Macie: So they have the same handlers, basically. And they have these people who speak [00:16:00] very well, who are smart, but they probably don't have the highest moral compass. And, um, they trick rel basically everybody, and it's been for decades. Um, and people just need to realize that listening to their mouths is a, uh, it's going to be a detriment because they'll say whatever and they'll be, they'll come across as extremely genuine.
Ted Macie: Um, because I've met some of these people and they seem like great people, nice people and, um, maybe they are, but I, they don't, uh, show that through having, um, strength when it comes to, uh, pushing back against. Uh, the system really,
Mara Macie: the status quo, we are screaming, our country is screaming for change and screaming for genuine representation.
Mara Macie: And yet we still make the same mistake that we've been making the whole time. We go with whoever is put forward with a bunch of money, and we [00:17:00] have to start recognizing that if someone has that amount of money, where you're seeing their signs everywhere, where you're seeing billboards, where you're seeing TV ads, unless they're independently wealthy, like Trump was.
Mara Macie: They can't, real candidates can't afford that stuff. So they're clearly being backed by the Uniparty, by the McCarthy's, by the McConnell's, those people in the world are the people that are backing all these candidates. We have to stop doing the same thing and expecting different results.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What's a good litmus test that you use?
Mara Macie: A
Mara Macie: litmus, the litmus test. When you look at the primary. If you look at the primary sample ballot, what you need to do, and you're, you're going to want to probably vote for someone who aligns with you in terms of Republican or Democrat. That is just the way we are by how we assume they're going to behave.
Mara Macie: So you're going to want to look at those people on that [00:18:00] sample ballot and you're going to want to follow the money. So look into their campaign finances, which can generally be done at the state. Department of State, depending on, on what the candidacy is. Uh, the federal level, it's the Federal Election Commission.
Mara Macie: And at, um, at other local levels you might find it, Supervisors of Elections websites if it's a county level position. But you need to find out where they're getting their money from. And once you see the candidate that has a whole lot of money, you know that that candidate is being put out there by the Uniparty, by the establishment, and you're going to get the same thing.
Mara Macie: That you always got by voting for that person.
Ted Macie: And you also notice like, uh, if there, there's a lot of individual donors. With like max amount, like for say, for instance, a state is 1, 000 max contribution, but you'll see a lot of these, uh, it has to show someone's occupation, um, and you'll see like developer or lawyer,
Mara Macie: insurance companies, medical companies, real estate.[00:19:00]
Mara Macie: It's all the same, at least through Florida. That's how it is. Although I would suspect it's the same way throughout the whole country. That is for more of a local situation, but you'll also see the committees. So the PACs, the political action committees, you'll see that, say it's like a state representative who is a establishment guy, you will see that he received the max donation from several PACs possibly on the same day.
Mara Macie: If you look into those PACs, you might find out that they're all run by the same people too. So what that means is that our election laws are being, there's loopholes. They're being, um, avoided. By say, I want to give the candidate 30, 000, but the max donation is 1, 000. What I do instead is I give it to that pack.
Mara Macie: That pack throws it into different places and all donate it right to the candidate from those packs, all 30, 000.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. That seems like that's. An easy way to launder money [00:20:00] or to facilitate your guy, whoever that is, whoever's in charge for them to be the candidate every time, because unfortunately people, Oh, I've seen that name before.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Let me vote for them and not, not really looking into their stance on different subjects.
Mara Macie: Yeah. Ben Carson had a great. Talk about that. He said, people will look at a ballot and they'll look for the name they recognize. And it could be Satan, but they'll go, Oh, I know Satan. So I'm going to vote for him. And he said, most of the time it is Satan.
Ted Macie: That's pretty good. I like that guy.
Ted Macie: We could turn this into a follow the money show. If you want, we'll do it. We'll do segments, man. Yeah, let's do it. It's pretty wild. Like hearing it, like it's, it's weird cause we, we, uh, we show people how to do it and they get the concept, but then we'll go to our computer and we'll go to the DOS, the [00:21:00] department of state website or FEC and, and start painting the picture.
Ted Macie: And then they just go, Oh my gosh, like this is real. Like this is what's happening. And that's the frustrating part. It's like people know there's something wrong and they get that the politics are dirty and there's dark money and all that stuff. But it's different when you actually see the people and know the names and see them in person and talk to them and you go, you little mother.
Ted Macie: So it's, uh, that's. It's something that needs to have more, um, publicity. I mean, because it really is simple to figure out.
Mara Macie: Yeah, we need to encourage people to actually start looking at the money themselves. Because like Ted said, you talk to people and you're like, you don't get it. They're all backed by these lobbyists and special interest groups and they're doing their bidding.
Mara Macie: And everybody goes, of course, I know that. Everybody knows that that's how politics work. But when you sit them down and show it to them. And they can see how they're moving money around and then you [00:22:00] realize that that development down the street is that guy that's donating all that money to that candidate and and he didn't have to get a certain.
Mara Macie: Uh, permit or you start to hear about the things that how there's doing the actual things in your neighborhood, you start to really go. Wait a minute. This is more real than I thought. Like, you know, it's real. But then when you see it, you, it's even more real than you thought it was. And it's, it's all local all the way to the top.
Mara Macie: It is, it is not, yeah. Discriminate on which level of government?
Mara Macie: Well, and it gets nastier than that. So like, if you're running for a seat, the establishment, if you are a grassroots candidate and they think you're a good candidate, someone that will do their bidding that, and they don't want you for that seat, they'll say, Hey, back out of this seat. And what we'll do is we'll get you this other seat and we'll work your way up there.
Mara Macie: So you wanted us Congress, but we're going to give [00:23:00] you state Senate. There's a particular veteran in Florida that got a phone call from the governor back when he was running for U. S. Congress, and he dropped out of that race and ran for state senate and got the governor's endorsement the next day. So, they are quite literally playing chess with the people that they deem worthy.
Mara Macie: Otherwise, if you're not deemed worthy, they will crush you, they will make up lies about you, they'll send out mailers, they'll Call you anything from, depending on who they're marketing to, they'll call you a, um, MAGA Republican or a, uh, super liberal and same person, but they'll market you both ways, depending on who they're trying to get to, who their, who their audience is.
Ted Macie: Yeah. And they send these mailers to, so you can, as a, as a candidate, you can get, um, you can get, uh, what is it called? Voter rolls. So who, like, there's this thing called super voters, people who voted in the primary three years in a row, I think that that is, [00:24:00] um, and it's broken up by Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, um, so you can get these lists, like what she was saying, um, and you can direct target your mail and call, uh, like a regular conservative, um, And they'll send the, uh, mailers that this person's like a MAGA Republican, like Nazi, crazy person.
Ted Macie: And then to the democ then to the, uh, the conservative voters, the Republicans, they'll go, this person's, they'll say liberal, and put them like, fine pictures with, like, it's crazy, man, like, the And it works. That's the, that's the annoying part. So that's, uh, that's why we're
Mara Macie: all about education is educating yourself, educating your neighbors, educating your family.
Mara Macie: I'm 1 of the only people I know that actually says, if you don't really know enough about the candidates, please don't vote. Please don't vote. I know we, we grew up being told that it's part of our civic duty to go vote. But too many people are voting thinking they know something, [00:25:00] and that's what they're banking on.
Mara Macie: That's what the establishment banks on, is that you think you know something. That's why they dumbed down our education system. Our kids nowadays are getting a much worse education than we got when I was a kid. I'm sure I was getting a worse education than when my mother was a kid. That was intentional because The dumber we are, the more we rely on them.
Mara Macie: It's like when people say, Oh, you homeschooled, how are you? Do you have a degree in education? No, but I went to public school. So if they didn't do a good job, why would I want to send my kids there? It's, it's really. The same thing is you are always I remember the Dewey Decimal System very well. We had to write papers from elementary school all the way through high school in my public school education.
Mara Macie: We had to research things, you know, it could be the Titanic, it could be the Bermuda Triangle, anything you want. But we had to find at least a certain amount of [00:26:00] books starting in elementary school to write up a, a essay, a paper. We were taught to research things before we spoke on them, and now they're like, what do you mean you're doing your own research?
Mara Macie: You're not listening to the experts. It's, it's unbelievable how we have. Come from a place where we were supposed to be educated and know how to decipher good information from bad information to the point where they're like, no, you're not allowed to decipher any information at all. You have to let the experts do it and the experts.
Mara Macie: Meanwhile, they might read a chapter. Say, I don't know, on the adrenal glands at med school, but you know what, as someone who deals with adrenal issues on a daily basis, I have a little bit more of a grasp on what really goes on there, and it's just funny because People don't want to do the work anymore.
Mara Macie: So if you do want to do the work, all of a sudden [00:27:00] you're some crazy person who thinks they're an expert, but really they're just anti science. You know who's anti science, Sam? You ever been on a highway in Jacksonville? Those drivers, they are anti science because they will get about this close to your bumper.
Mara Macie: And I'm like, these people don't understand science. Yeah. Those people are anti science.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, what's interesting is what you mentioned is, you know, everyone wants to look, make, makes you say, they say to you, look at the experts, the experts know you're not qualified to understand this. Uh, I think probably the person that goes to school multiple years is not capable of looking at their position and saying that it's wrong.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Because their entire livelihood is dependent on their position that they spent years of their time and hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a master's or a PhD in whatever field of study. And so it, financially, and emotionally, and, and, um, [00:28:00] economically, I guess that's financial too, um, but it benefits them to not see the truth.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, you know, because they're in a higher position that they're an expert in this field, but you know, if we're talking about viruses or we're talking about COVID or we're talking about statins or we're talking about whatever it is, if they're an quote expert in that field, they're not able to objectively look at the information available.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And these are issues I'm dealing with in my personal life right now is, you know, like I've had conversations with, with people that, you know, they, you know, is our virus is what we think they are. I don't know. I've seen information now that makes me think that they're probably not what we think they are.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm not a hundred percent into, um, one or the other theory, germ theory or terrain theory, but there's enough information there to make me go, there might be an idea in terrain theory. That's, that's. Pretty close to right. There might be something about statins that are, they're probably pretty bad. Maybe we should err on the side of caution and not give harmful things to people.[00:29:00]
Mara Macie: But that's the type of doctor you are, and we've been blessed to be surrounded by doctors like you who understand that they don't know everything about, uh, medicine or viruses or the body. We, I guess we kind of chose that for ourselves because when we did start going to see, particularly again, endocrinologists, Who would say, this is what the textbook says about how you need to dose for this.
Mara Macie: So this is what you should do. And you realize that you aren't an individual to that person. You are just. It's a chapter in a textbook. And so we started moving away from those types of doctors a long time ago, but we are really blessed. We have, uh, you in our lives, we have Teresa, we have, uh, our friend Sarah, we have a lot of great doctors that are willing to admit that there's so much more to learn than what Pete.
Mara Macie: I love Pete and Joe. Joe's better than Pete. I think Joe's probably a better doctor. Joe the dog. [00:30:00] Anyhow, we're just blessed that we have people that realize that they don't know it, because you can't learn if you, if you think you know everything. You just can't. You cannot expand on something that you already think you are a master of.
Ted Macie: Pride is the hell of a drug, man. That's what I've noticed. These extremely intelligent people let their emotion and pride get in the way. And that's simply, like, honestly, I think that's all it comes down to. I mean, if they just got over themselves a little bit or were open minded skeptics to put, you know, opposed to like a closed minded skeptic, um, that, that they'll do huge service to the medical community.
Ted Macie: Um, as you've seen and experienced, like, I couldn't even imagine you must be like, go through days where you're like, how the heck am I the only doctor that's seeing this or is opening to even talk about this, dude, I'd be pulling my hair out actually. What hair? No jokes. Thank you. I'm done here. So like, seriously, though, man, like we [00:31:00] just do so much crap for the past, like over two years and you're just like, am I in the damn twilight zone?
Ted Macie: But then you realize a lot of the information has been suppressed and then you talk to people in the streets and everywhere else and it's like people get it. But obviously the media has been controlled for way too long.
Mara Macie: That's money. That's money. It's all money. Always money. Always money. Yep.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: When it's interesting because like, you know, you, you, so I had this one interaction with someone who they wanted Paxlovid, Paxlovid is a dangerous medication.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It has a black box wording on it. It interacts with multiple medications and you're more likely to have rebound COVID after you've taken it. And I had a patient who I said, well, uh, she said, are you going to give me the Paxlovid? And I said, why? It's not part of my practice. I don't use that. And she just looked at me with contempt because I guess she heard on CNN or whatever mainstream media.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And. That Paxlovid is the only treatment and it's the best treatment and it's safer than anything else out there. But that's just not the truth. [00:32:00] And now you've got these non experts teaching people to be experts in something they have no clue what they're talking about. And it's, it's mind blowing. It does make me want to rip my hair out and I'm surprised I still have any left.
Ted Macie: Well, at least it's going back on your face. That looks nice. Thanks.
Ted Macie: Dude, I know man. So it's like the autonomy for doctors has gone away completely and it's a it's it's pure business at this point There's no like doctor down the road that everybody knows You know, I mean this like we thought the old time like it was back in the day But it's so controlled just like the government everything's too damn big and it needs to be decentralized Big time because people are smart like a county can take care of itself with a bunch of commissioners.
Ted Macie: We don't need the Like every other overarching government in our lives, like we can take care of ourselves. I mean, just proving that there's, [00:33:00] there's been, there's nothing in the government that. Has been a success. I mean, I'm sure there are have been things that have come out with but like you look at the Department of Education like is there one measure measurement of success since the DOE took over like nothing there's nothing there and
Mara Macie: Yeah, if the Department of Education needs to go, but that's not the only department that needs to go or bureaucracy that needs to go but It is the thing about like federal funding, things like that.
Mara Macie: People want small government. At least we claim we do as conservatives that we want small government, but they don't like small government when it affects them. They still want the overarching fed to come in and bail them out of things. And I'm at the point. Where I'm saying we can't keep bailing people.
Mara Macie: We don't even have money. You couldn't run a household like this. You [00:34:00] wouldn't, You couldn't feed your children. Imagine just saying to the creditors, listen, I got kids and I have to feed them. So give me some more credit. It isn't gonna happen. It isn't gonna happen. So we have to learn to be consistent, that we have to have integrity and say no to things even when it benefits us.
Mara Macie: We have to say, this is not going to benefit our children in the future, this is not going to benefit future generations or our country, and if we keep going down this path, then there is going to be a point of no return, and we will end up globalists, or we will end up speaking Mandarin, it is not something we should miss.
Mara Macie: That is negotiable at this point. We need to stop it with favoring ourselves in our situation. I can't believe how much it costs to rename a highway and people support it. Like, listen, it's the name of a highway. Who cares? We don't need to name it after [00:35:00] the former governor or Anybody that you think is worthy of it, it's costing so much money.
Mara Macie: So we're originally from Massachusetts. And when you go to Massachusetts, now all the, all the exits have been changed because of Massachusetts. We didn't do the thing where you measure the amount of miles. It was just one, two, three, four, five. And it wasn't consistent with other parts of the country. So now they've got their new exit numbers up and then right under the new exit, it tells you there's another sign right under there.
Mara Macie: It tells you which old exit it was.
Ted Macie: Nostalgic. Remember old exit 7? We used to drive by old exit 7, but now it's 28. You know, it's like, it's so dumb.
Mara Macie: But you get to know both. And it, and it costs, it surely costs more money to change all those signs. And then to add the sign that told us, but the old sign had already set on it.
Mara Macie: So we are wasting money now, whether that's state funds or federal funds, at [00:36:00] one point, it doesn't matter because if the federal funds stopped coming in, then the state would be a little bit more, uh, careful about how they spend their money too, but we've gotten to the point where it's just, there's so many different.
Mara Macie: Baskets to choose from of, Oh, well, this money's for this and this money. And I think the first time I ever recognized that was in the military community when, uh, you, this, this is when you first started working medical. And, um, and we were talking to, I think he was a physical therapist. I don't even remember what he was, but he was talking about how his funds came from over here.
Mara Macie: So it didn't matter if they didn't have money because he still had money. And I'm like. I get the idea of why we do it, but when we do this and we split it up into pots too much, we are, we are just making it more confuse. It's like adding laws on top of laws. My favorite are redundant laws. Mm-Hmm.
Mara Macie: redundant. We already have a law that says that. Yes, but nobody follows it. So let's make another one. We, we need. To [00:37:00] make it a smaller package, we, we need to make it more comprehensible, like people need to understand what's going on. And they can't, because we keep adding more things on top of other things.
Mara Macie: Whether it's pots of money, well this pot is set aside specifically for this reason. Or whether it's, well this is old Exit 7, but it's 28 now. It is quite actually something we need to Make smaller rather than bigger. The whole government, state, federal, all government needs to be smaller.
Ted Macie: And back to follow the money because everything starts local.
Ted Macie: Everything starts local. Yep.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I would love to see our government go back to the Constitution and follow that. The whole idea is we make the government small and we make it move slow so that we can't get more laws and more problems because the more times that politicians meet and talk and pass laws, the more problems we have.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And that was the point of the [00:38:00] Constitution. That's why they made it to where it was almost a stalemate between the Senate and the Congress. So that nothing would be moved through either unless there was an overwhelming majority. And, and the idea that we vote for, as the local citizens of whatever state, that we vote for our senators is absolutely ridiculous because it's anti constitutional.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The whole point of the Senate is to conduct the business of the state, not the business of the people. The business of the people is done in Congress. They're the closest to the people, they're re elected the most often, but the Senators, per the Constitution, are supposed to be appointed by the state because they deal with the state's business, which may be in conflict with the people in the states.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so, when Now it's just a big popularity party. We have whoever's most popular in, in my district, and whoever's most, you know, for, for my congressman, and whoever's most popular in my state gets a senator position. Now whatever I want, and, and this is a problem that we've been seeing is, ever since [00:39:00] COVID, what America's always done is we, I would sacrifice myself for my children.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And ever since COVID, what our country has done and demonstrated is, I will sacrifice my children for me. Which is Tragic and heartbreaking. We've put masks on kids to save elderly. Well, the elderly need to take care of themselves because the children are going to be damaged for years from putting masks on them.
Mara Macie: Yeah. And there are a lot of amendments that were made to the Constitution where you, you do kind of rethink it when you reread it as an adult. Uh, even right down to, well, the vice president was really the guy who came in second, so. You know, is, is that okay? Or, um, just the whole idea that we just keep changing it.
Mara Macie: And like term limits [00:40:00] in particular is one that I support term limits. I feel like if the president is going to have term limits, then everybody else should, but I support term limits. Because people are uneducated voters. If we had educated voters, I don't think we would need term limits at all. We could go back to the constitutional value when it came to, that there were no term limits.
Mara Macie: You could have done whatever you wanted, president forever, but people wouldn't have done that because they were educated enough to know that we needed to change hands at some point. Now, we would literally vote ourselves into a dictatorship. We, that's how dumb our voter base has been. And I was part of that problem.
Mara Macie: I was, at one point, unaware of what I'm aware of now. I'm open about saying that, that I didn't realize when I went into the voting booth and voted for the R, that, um, that I was not doing my due diligence. But I will say it, and I'll say it now, but that's why I work [00:41:00] to educate people about it now, and why I try to expose the corruption that goes on.
Mara Macie: But yeah, what would happen if we went back to the Constitution? Just the Constitution the way it is, and really Reassess the amendments that, um, I suppose we could do without, because I, I think that there, I know a lot of people have different opinions on which amendments. We could do without, but I would say some of the more recent amendments are more likely on the chopping table or chopping block for the people I talk to.
Mara Macie: But yeah, it would be, it would be interesting to see if we went back to the way that the Senate was elected, not elected, chosen. Essentially chosen.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, it has been wonderful having y'all on. Thank you so much for coming on with me
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: today.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Good to see y'all.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Good to see you Sam.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just[00:42:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: a reminder for everyone out there, the duty uniform of the day, the full armor of God, lets all make courage more contagious than fear.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics, never been given mRNA vaccines, it's raised in the USA, it's processed in the USA, in fact it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on [00:43:00] their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if we compare What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it. It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. That's MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours. MyCleanBeef.com/afterhours.
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112. SPC Adam DeRito from Dark Sabre Productions
Today I talk with SPC Adam DeRito. Adam talks about he was sexually assaulted and how the Air Force Academy treated Adam as if he was the criminal. Adam is also trying to get legislation passed to help victims of sexual crimes in the military.
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112. Adam DeRito
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SPC Adam DeRito: [00:00:00] So OSI wanted to make sure that none of this stuff was being tracked because OSI Works above the chain of command that's the purpose of them So they can do these investigations above the chain of command above the three star general They don't want all these academy leaders finding about the investigations against their own cadets.
SPC Adam DeRito: Never mind their own football team So if you look at it from that perspective, they are doing the right thing They are trying to go after criminal action at the academies. They're trying to prevent these kids from commissioning but what they didn't know later on which is things I failed to discuss in previous podcast because I didn't want to piss off the grad community is that Football is a giant money maker at the academy.
SPC Adam DeRito: They make more money off of football than anything else. And when you start going after the money, that's when things start happening, right?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones, never been given antibiotics.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. [00:01:00] It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow that gives birth to the calf. It's raised on their fields and then taken to their butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare What we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours. MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours.[00:02:00]
Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff.
Nurse Kelly: On this podcast, you will be encouraged to
Nurse Kelly: question everything.
Nurse Kelly: And to have the courage to stand for the truth.
Nurse Kelly: And now,
Nurse Kelly: to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Hey, well thanks for joining me again. I first want to give a shout out to all of my Patreon supporters. We've got Tuff, who's made a 30 level. We've got an anonymous family donor giving 20. 20. A month we have the Planned Demic Reprimand at $17 and 76 cents a month with Ty, Charles, tinfoil, Dr.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Anna Frank, Brian, shell, and Brantley. We have Kevin Anos giving $10 and Pat and Bev also giving $10. We have the refined, not burned at $5 a month with Linda, Emmy, Joe, pj, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Ken, Rick. [00:03:00] Mary and Amanda, we have Addison Mulder giving 3 a month, Frank giving 1. 50 a month and then Courageous Contagious giving 1 a month with Jay, SpessNasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King and Caleb.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you so much for all of your support. I truly appreciate it. And remember, uh, go check out mycleanbeef. com slash after hours. That's mycleanbeef. com slash after hours for some of the best beef you've ever had in your life. So, I want to introduce my next guest. We have a very special man here, and, and don't be confused, he, he may only be a specialist, but he probably should be a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force right now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Adam DiRito. Adam, thank you so much for coming on.
SPC Adam DeRito: Hey, Sam, thanks for welcoming me on the show. I really appreciate you bringing me on. It's a pleasure that we were able to connect over all these things.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, so we were talking beforehand, and I could try and do an introduction. I would not give you justice, so I want you to kind of tell us your story.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Tell us, because, you know, some people may see you in uniform and be like, what is a specialist with all [00:04:00] these ribbons and all that? What's your story, and what's going on, and what has the military done to you? That's just egregious beyond egregious and how you're fighting back.
SPC Adam DeRito: Sure. Uh, thanks for the introduction.
SPC Adam DeRito: You know, like I said, I don't think I'm anybody special. I blurry was just somebody who I was 18 years old and I have always wanted to join the military since I was 12 and it was my objective to go to the air force academy at a very young age. So since. Elementary school in sixth grade. I could even go back to my yearbook now and Mrs.
SPC Adam DeRito: Kissack's class in West Milford, New Jersey. And it says, become an aeronautical engineer at the Air Force Academy. And she's like, man, you have a, you have a pretty thought out plan at 12 years old. I'm like, well, you know, I make plans and I follow through with them. Great. I didn't become an engineer at the academy because that shit's hard and I failed calc three, but that's a different story.
SPC Adam DeRito: Um, but yeah, so I went to the Air Force Academy from the class of 2010. So I, Join the military because of 9 11 and I [00:05:00] lost family in the towers 92nd floor of Cantor Fitzgerald My cousin Michael McHugh was killed in the terrorist attacks and being from West Milford, New Jersey You could see the towers burning from my hometown, right?
SPC Adam DeRito: So it had a definite significant impact on me I think a little bit different than people who didn't grow up on the East Coast and you know being born in New York And being raised New Jersey, you just kind of have this You know, I'm going to go get these guys kind of attitude and, you know, the whole Tony Soprano mentality of how Jersey people work.
SPC Adam DeRito: So it's one of those interesting situations though, because my mom used to always say these things like, you know, be careful what you wish for and you know, well, she was right. So I go to the Air Force Academy. My first year and I thought it was just gonna be full of people that were just like me You know, I grew up in a poor blue collar family worked for everything in my life mowing lawns at ten bucks Ten bucks for every lawn I mowed and my dad taught me how to work on cars And I was in the Civil Air Patrol as a kid from like 12 to 18 years old That's in the Air Force Auxiliary doing like search and rescue training and [00:06:00] humanitarian assistance And we did some of the 9 11 recovery stuff when I was like You know, a young kid like 14 15 years old.
SPC Adam DeRito: So when I go to the academy, though, I realized that there's a very small population that is comes from the similar background as me. Most of these kids to go to the academy are, you know, kids of graduates or, you know, their daddy's friend is a general wrote him a letter or their personal friends with the senators and the congressman.
SPC Adam DeRito: So when I went there, it was just a different mentality. I thought I was going to go through like this hardcore boot camp and like run around with guns and all these other things. And I think some of my experiences in the civil air patrol were actually harder than when I showed up at the Air Force Academy.
SPC Adam DeRito: We didn't even shoot guns. I think we shot guns once at this thing called cat him, uh, and they were just like, take 40 rounds and shoot them down range. I'm like, don't we have to hit a target? They're like, no, just take 40 rounds and shoot them down range. I'm like. Wait, yeah, don't you have like, no, this is the Air Force.
SPC Adam DeRito: We don't, we don't hit targets with guns. This is not your job. I'm like, okay. So that was, that was a rude awakening going to Air Force Academy, basic [00:07:00] training. And I laugh at some of the grads who look back on, Oh, that was such a hard experience. I'm like, did you ever go outside and play in the woods when you were a kid?
SPC Adam DeRito: You know, like building a tree house was harder than this. So I quickly realized that. You know, my parents are was like, if you want to go to college, you got to pay for it yourself. You know, we had no money to send you to college. So I didn't quit the academy because I wanted to stick it out and I could have gone to West Point.
SPC Adam DeRito: I could have gone to Annapolis. I could have got to any single of these service academies that I wanted, but I was really close to Annapolis in West Point. I was only like 45 minute drive from West Point. Five hour drive from Annapolis. I thought I wanted to go out west because I wanted a completely different experience.
SPC Adam DeRito: I want to get out of my hometown, get away from everyone I grew up with and just start over. And that was seemed like a good idea at the time. Right. But I look back on it now and I'm like, man, I should have went to West Point because I ended up in the army anyway, or the Naval Academy because I ended up.
SPC Adam DeRito: Cross commissioning into the Marines technically, right? So, uh, and plus I would have had much more of a support group because when you go to the academies, when you have your weekends off, sometimes they let you leave or you go to see your sponsor family, which is a family they assign you if you're an out of state cadet.
SPC Adam DeRito: [00:08:00] So I didn't really have a lot of friends at the academy my first couple of years and you know, it was kind of a. You know on my own, you know and being a new jersey person, you know Some people don't take kindly to your your attitude and how you talk all the time I had to learn how to get over that become more westernized and be more midwest polite You know, you can't just tell people to go fuck off.
SPC Adam DeRito: Apparently they don't like that. But you know, whatever um So there's a gentleman's rule at these academies where I and for people who are applying to the academies or don't know this If you go to any federal service academy, so that is west point Annapolis Air Force or Merchant Marine You can actually commission into any branch of service that you want But there's a gentleman's agreement that if you go to Air Force you stay Air Force slash Space Force now If you go to West Point you stay army and blah blah blah.
SPC Adam DeRito: So I found out that there's a cross commissioning process at the Air Force Academy. So I applied to go to the Marines. A lot of my friends from high school went to the Marines in the army and they were in the Korangal Valley and they're in fucking Iraq and oh five and through oh seven and oh eight.
SPC Adam DeRito: And they're like, you're missing out on all the fun, man, [00:09:00] depending on your definition of fun at the time. So I'm just like, you know what? I'm going to go to the Marines. I want to go fly for the Marines or go be an infantry officer or something. So I applied. I actually passed the aviation exam, so the cool thing was I had a pilot slot in the Marine Corps to be a naval aviator.
SPC Adam DeRito: I did not have a pilot slot in the Air Force because I was ranked low in my class because, you know, was I the best cadet? No. Uh, like I said, things I should have gotten kicked out for that I didn't was, uh, Waterbloom Launcher and Capri Suns attacking the upperclassmen for not letting us leave over the weekend.
SPC Adam DeRito: Hilarious at the time stupid looking back on it now. Um, so Because of my experiences at the academy like I was always getting my dick stepped on like my commanders like you're not leaving this weekend You're not going anywhere. You're staying here. So basically I went to prison for four years at the air force academy I never left.
SPC Adam DeRito: I didn't get to go skiing You know, I didn't get to live the south park life in colorado I pretty much stayed on base never left and never went anywhere and this is kind of how my story starts is because Uh, I [00:10:00] broke up with my high school girlfriend at the time. I was like 19 and me and, you know, online dating was like a new thing at the academy, right?
SPC Adam DeRito: Uh, the internet was kind of a thing. Facebook didn't really even exist then, which is crazy. Like we didn't have smartphones. There's no apps, none of this stuff. So me and a couple of the guys in the squad who always got restricted as we called it on the weekends, like we'd be on this, like, I don't even remember what the name of the dating website was.
SPC Adam DeRito: It's probably like match. com or something stupid like that. And we were like looking for girls, like University of Colorado, Colorado Springs. So I was talking to, like, random women, I had no idea, never met these people, all through email, like, no phone calls, no, nothing, right? But they're like, hey, you wanna, you wanna go out on a date and meet us, up with us this weekend?
SPC Adam DeRito: I'm like, yeah, so I can't leave. They're like, what do you mean you can't leave? Yeah, I'm restricted. So, obviously none of these things ever panned out, right? So, I go home for Christmas and I think it was like 2007 and I come back in like January, February 2008 and my [00:11:00] commander, who absolutely couldn't stand me calls me into his office and he's like Hey, so you need to go talk to Air Force OSI I'm like, what the hell is Air Force OSI?
SPC Adam DeRito: And they're like, it's the Office of Special Investigations Now, for anyone who doesn't know who Air Force OSI is they're basically like the NCIS uh, for the Air Force or the FBI you know, for the Air Force So I go down there and to be, to be fair, I've always had positive experiences, law enforcement, uh, in New Jersey.
SPC Adam DeRito: I was a volunteer firefighter and E. M. T. So I grew up working with E. M. S. Uh, and the fireside and the police all the time. So I didn't have an issue talking with cops. I never had a bad interaction with them. So it's like a classic. They dragged me into this room. And I sit there and it's like one metal chair with like two other metal chairs and a desk in a mirrored room And i'm sitting there.
SPC Adam DeRito: I have no idea why i'm sitting there. I'm after class. I had to miss rugby practice I have a test the next day And they come in they're like, hey, is this your email address? I was like, yeah, and it was like some stupid like civilian email address That was like falcon2000 or something like that [00:12:00] like hotmail.
SPC Adam DeRito: com And I should have asked the question, like, first of all, how'd you guys even have these emails? Like, you know, I'm, I'm stupid. Like, I'm 19. I have no idea what's going on. No lawyer, no nothing. And they're like, well, were you, were you talking to this individual? On this, on this dating website, and I look at the message, and I'm like, uh, sure, yeah, that looks like the transcript.
SPC Adam DeRito: And I'm like, do you have, did you know that they were under the age of 18? And I'm like, no! How the fuck was I supposed to know that? Like, this is email only, on a dating website, where you could be whoever the hell you wanted, apparently. And this is like, during the eras of like, Chris Hansen to Catch a Predator.
SPC Adam DeRito: So, like, I guess it was like a big thing back then. And like, oh, so you didn't know. I'm like, no, I have no idea who this person was. I never met them in person, never talked to them on the phone, all strictly email. And they said, okay, well, you're, you did nothing wrong. I'm like, yeah, I know. And then I asked, is this the point where I asked to get a lawyer?
SPC Adam DeRito: Because I don't know where this is going. Like, oh, no, no, no, you don't need a lawyer. You don't need anything. And they're like, but ironically, we have a lot of this stuff going on at the academy. So, you know, you seem like a pretty [00:13:00] good guy. And I'm like, yeah. Like, oh, you were, you were an EMT, you were, you were a firefighter, and I see that you, you've applied to cross commission to the Marine Corps, so you don't even want to be in the Air Force anymore, and I'm like No, I don't like I don't like this place.
SPC Adam DeRito: I don't like the people I go to school with, you know, and they're like, you know So like how would you like to work for us? Like how would you like to take down some of these Air Force cadets like trying to meet minors and all these other things? Like which I didn't even know was a thing, you know You go to the Academy you figure like you're an upstanding individual and you have to pass all these tests and examinations And I didn't know that the issue at the Academy for sexual assault harassment was this bad.
SPC Adam DeRito: So I said, yeah sure so they Basically had me work as an undercover informant. So I worked for them for two years as an undercover informant from 2008 to 2010. And I mean, some of the stuff that we were uncovering between cadets was Absolutely insane and basically to be fair. I was just an information point Like I talked to people who were going to parties who was giving out the drugs who was you know Trafficking the spice which is an [00:14:00] illegal hallucinogen back then that became more prominent years later Uh, there was an incident with like cocaine and underage drinking and a lot of this had to do with the football team So this became known as operation gridiron where osi formulated this plan to go after all these red shirt kids On the ncaa division one football team and the red shirt guys We're recruited specifically to play football, and they go to something called the Air Force Academy Prep School prior to that.
SPC Adam DeRito: So they do five years at the academy instead of four. Now, I was a direct entry guy. I was only a four year guy. I didn't get recruited to play sports. I had high enough SAT scores and ACT scores to get directly in. So I was very unfamiliar with division one sports and how that all worked because I was a rugby player.
SPC Adam DeRito: So I played a club sport. I, I didn't go to the academy to play sports. I, I went to the academy to become an officer and be a pilot. So I didn't really like the NCAA kids because they always got out of formation. They always got involved out of all these things anyway. So I had no problem writing up my reports and sending them the OSI.
SPC Adam DeRito: But the problem was, is that I can never leave my room or do any of these things. And we had to keep [00:15:00] everything on the low ball. So I had like a burner phone. That I used to communicate with OSI with and I would print out all my MFRs that I type up And they were just my evidence like I talked to this cadet about this party last weekend Possibly involved in sexual assault and they got the alcohol from cadet X blah blah blah blah and I print these out I put them in Manila folder and I tell my commander Hey, I'm gonna go for a jog because they couldn't prevent me from working out and I'd go run Across base with this manila folder and then I drop it off at OSI and then like run back Like that's what I did every Friday Like that's how it so that that way because as as I discovered the 10th communication squadron at the Academy has access to anything you use on the internet, which is how they Found out that I was using a dating website when I was 19, right?
SPC Adam DeRito: so OSI wanted to make sure that none of this stuff was being tracked because OSI Works above the chain of command. That's the purpose of them So they can do these investigations above the chain of command above the three star general They don't want all these academy leaders finding about the investigations against their own cadets.
SPC Adam DeRito: Never [00:16:00] mind their own football team So if you look at it from that perspective, they are doing the right thing They are trying to go after criminal action at the academies. They're trying to prevent these kids from commissioning but what they didn't know later on which is things I failed to discuss in previous podcasts because I didn't want to piss off the grad community is that Football is a giant money maker at the academy.
SPC Adam DeRito: They make more money Off of football than anything else. And when you start going after the money, that's when things start happening. Right? And I was completely unaware of this, right? Because I didn't care. Like, I was just there to commission, go fly planes and go kill terrorists, right? Theoretically, so it just goes into 2009.
SPC Adam DeRito: I'm getting ready to go to Marine Corps officer candidate school and my next door roommate is like, Hey, we're going to go up to a party in Fort Collins. And I was actually allowed to leave that weekend. I was of age. I was over the age of 21 at this time. And I'm like, wait, real college party, and you guys want me to drive you back from the Fort Collins Marathon?
SPC Adam DeRito: Like, because they were going to go to a party, and they were going to go run the marathon the next day. I'm like, yeah, I'll go. That sounds like a good idea. I'm just trying to be social, trying to be cool with everyone in the squad. [00:17:00] So we go up to Fort Collins, and we go to this random house party. And it was like a scene out of American Pie.
SPC Adam DeRito: You know, like, there's like, fucking beer kegs getting rolled down the street. You know, attractive women everywhere. There's house parties off the fucking channels. Like, there's like, slip and slides outside of a plastic tarp. And like, you know, fucking soapy water everywhere. And like, chicks in bikinis. I'm like, this is great.
SPC Adam DeRito: Why did I go to the Air Force Academy? I don't know. I should have went to normal college. Um, so I go, I go to this, I go to this party, and I don't know anyone there. Uh, this girl hands me this drink, and I was 225 pounds at the time, you know, I know my drinking abilities, I'm Irish as a background, so it takes a lot for me to, to, to get drunk, but I take like three sips of this stuff, and about like 20 minutes later, I don't remember fucking anything, which is like very uncommon, and I remember this specifically because, um, I wake up the next morning, and I'm in some random fucking dorm room, I have no idea where the fuck I am.
SPC Adam DeRito: My phone's dead. My friends, my so called friends, left me there, [00:18:00] and it's Sunday, and I'm supposed to be back by like 10 a. m. for formation, and it's like Almost 10 and I'm like, shit, this is like a two and a half hour drive back to the academy. I'm not going to make it. So I immediately realized something was wrong though.
SPC Adam DeRito: Cause my clothes are off everything down below. Looked like I got hit with 60 grit sandpaper, something, something happened. I have the worst headache I've ever had in my life. And like, this isn't like, Oh, I'm hungover headache. This is like somebody hit me in the head with a baseball bat hangover. And I'm like, this doesn't seem right.
SPC Adam DeRito: So I literally go to a Denny's and I drink like an entire pot of coffee. I try to eat something and put something in my stomach. This is like my EMT brain kicking in, like, just try to absorb whatever's in your stomach, you know, whatever. And I find my truck, which was like five blocks down the road. And I charged my phone enough.
SPC Adam DeRito: I call my commander who hates me and I'm like, Hey, sir, just let you know that, uh, I overslept and I didn't tell him what happened obviously at the time. And I'm going to be late. He's like, of course you're going to be late. The one weekend I let you leave and you fucked this up. And I'm like, Okay, whatever,
SPC Adam DeRito: So I eventually go back to the [00:19:00] academy and I, yeah, I try to tell him what happened and he's like, there's no way that a 225 pound rugby player got raped. You're lying. You're just doing this to get yourself outta trouble. And like I said, this is 2009. Right? So male on male or. Female on male sexual assault isn't really a thing back then even though it's actually way more prevalent in the military than people understand It just doesn't get reported as much.
SPC Adam DeRito: So because I knew my commander was going to try to screw me I immediately file an unrestricted report with the sexual assault coordination Center at the air force academy and I report it to my Air force osi handlers and I file a police report with colorado state university police department So I tried to do all the right things man.
SPC Adam DeRito: Like I I made the report I Call the correct, um, adjudicating authorities on it. And this is like one of the biggest mistakes I made. And this is what I try to coach cadets on now is I gave full jurisdiction of my case back to the air force. And I didn't allow the civilian entities to finish the investigation, [00:20:00] which I had every right to, because it happened off base in a different county that was controlled by civilian authorities.
SPC Adam DeRito: And to be fair, Detective Adam Smith at the time at Colorado State University was super awesome. He actually found the person who did it, uh, and backtrack a little bit. This woman also stole my Air Force Academy class ring. Um, they actually ended up finding out this girl was like a habitual offender.
SPC Adam DeRito: She'd go to parties and like stalk military guys. Like it ended up being like this whole thing, but there's like, well, you gave jurisdiction back to the Air Force, so we can't arrest her. We can't charge her. We can't do anything. That's all up to the Air Force, right? Now the Air Force is going to go arrest a civilian, right?
SPC Adam DeRito: So they're just like, Hey man, sorry, there's nothing we can do. So, uh, We're sorry about what happened to you, but we have your back when it comes to your commander and your chain of command. And I'm like, you gotta be fucking kidding me, right? Because my commander doesn't believe me, the superintendent doesn't believe me, the commandant doesn't believe anything happened.
SPC Adam DeRito: They just thought you were just some cadet who went out and got drunk and didn't want to get in trouble, so you filed a sexual assault report. which is bullshit. [00:21:00] And unfortunately, the sad part is a lot of that still happens today. It's why a lot of women and men are afraid to report at the academies because they report.
SPC Adam DeRito: And even the most recent case with this girl, there was physical evidence. She got raped. She had the physical evidence, went to a civilian hospital, got the pictures, got everything done, got the DNA test done. And the guy was still found not guilty because she gave jurisdiction back to the air force.
SPC Adam DeRito: Right. And if they just left the prosecution with the civilian side, they would have Put that kid in jail for a long period of time, and this is something I coach Academy kids on constantly report to the FBI report to the county sheriff's office. Never allow the Air Force to take control of your case because the institution is more important than the individual and they will do whatever it takes to protect the institution in the Air Force and the name of the Air Force Academy over you because you are not important.
SPC Adam DeRito: You are replaceable and you're just a number. And I come back and you know, the commandant Sorry, the vice superintendent, some colonel calls me to his office because I'm literally on the, uh, getting ready to get on a plane to go to Marine officer candidate school. And he's like, I don't know what the fuck [00:22:00] happened with you to read it up there at CSU, but she called the Air Force Academy and said, like, she's pregnant and all this other shit.
SPC Adam DeRito: And I'm just like. Yeah, none of that. None of that's true. Like This is all just made up. She's a stalker So she ended up getting banned from base by security forces Like even the air force kicked her like banned her from coming on base because she would like sit on base like wait for me To get out of class like she was absolutely out of her mind.
SPC Adam DeRito: So um, I go to marine officer candidate school and i'm like finally I get to take like eight weeks or six weeks it was and just like Get out of the academy and go do something really in the, uh, in the military. And man, Marine officer candidate school was an eye opening experience. It was like, Oh, this is what the real military is like.
SPC Adam DeRito: Cause like I've been in the Air Force Academy for like almost three years. So like, I know how to march. I know how to do stuff. No, no, I didn't. No, I did not. I showed up there and. I'm the only, no, there was another Air Force Academy guy there with me and he tried to distance himself from me as much as possible because he's like, Dorito, you just have a name and everyone knows who you are.
SPC Adam DeRito: Like, [00:23:00] I just don't want to be associated with you in the Air Force, but I don't blame you, man. Like, you're good. So I show up and I'm, I'm with the Gulf company, fourth platoon, and they have every, all the candidates stand in a circle and the gunnery sergeants. And the cool thing was, is all the gunnery sergeants and sergeant instructors, they're all like E sevens and above.
SPC Adam DeRito: Yeah. And most of them have combat experience like most of these guys came like from like fallujah and like oh five You know what? I mean? So this is like their staff duty tour. So they just hate Everyone and everything and I loved it because I didn't have this experience at the air force academy I'm like, oh these guys are like no shit jacked as fucking want to murder me every five seconds Like this is what I joined the military for and they they're going around the entire uh squad bay and they're like Give us your Institution like what college you're from and what your degree is that so you got all these like and ROTC kids and all these like Prior enlisted Marines like I'm you know, I go to the University of Maryland biology and like right next and then like company commander and the first sergeant and sergeant should just get to me and like Dorito [00:24:00] what University here you come from and I'm like USAPHA and they're like what the fuck is USAPHA and I'm just like Trying to be a smartass, because I think I'm funny.
SPC Adam DeRito: And I'm like, University of Sciences and Fine Arts Academy. And, like, Gunnery Sergeant Clay looks down at his paper, and he's like, U. S. A. F. A. Wait a minute, you're that fucking academy guy! I'm just like, shit. They, they immediately take my fucking footlocker, and they fucking throw it off the fucking outdoor company deck, into the fucking mud.
SPC Adam DeRito: And they're like, start load crawling, right now. Face in the mud. I'm like, God damn it. And they're like, congratulations, Dorito. You are now in charge of the company. Like, you are the company commander, candidate company commander. I'm like, fuck me in the ass. So I have no idea how anything works in the actual military, right?
SPC Adam DeRito: Like I don't know how what a fire team is. I don't know what even a company is because the air force has different like So at the air force academy as long as your cadets are doing what they're supposed to do that You just leave them alone. Like yeah, that's not how leadership works in the [00:25:00] marine corps.
SPC Adam DeRito: Like you have to literally Hold everyone by the hand and and do all these things And I I learned what leadership was the hard way and they They're like you failed this week in your leadership peer review. So you're getting kicked out You have to go see colonel mancini who's the battalion commander for ocs now.
SPC Adam DeRito: This is like a colonel Who like literally scared the crap out of me like he he reminded me of like mel gibson and like we were soldiers Like you just walk in you're like, I don't I don't even know what this guy how many people this guy's killed You know what? I mean? You go in there and they sit me down with the battalion.
SPC Adam DeRito: Uh sergeant major And the battalion, uh, commander, Colonel Mancini, and, uh, the first sergeant, his name was, at the time, he was a master sergeant, Master Sergeant Sandercock, and for anyone who looks up, like, old Marine Corps recruiting videos, Gunnery Sergeant Sandercock, this guy is the most insane, out of his mind, screaming, yelling, motivating person I've ever met in the Marine Corps, and they're just in my face screaming at me for 45 minutes, like, I don't deserve to be a Marine, I'm a worthless piece of shit, [00:26:00] I'm an Air Force wannabe, like, I'm gonna get kicked out, so, They, uh, they send me back to the squad bay and Gunnery Sergeant Clay and Gunnery Sergeant Alessio come find me like, Hey, uh, Colonel Mancini made his decision.
SPC Adam DeRito: You're getting kicked out. You're done. Pack your shit. I'm like, okay, well, I guess that's it. I'm going back to the Air Force Academy and I'm never going to hear the end of this. So they, I pack my duffel bag and I get in a van and they drive me all the way to Ronald Reagan Airport, like International Airport.
SPC Adam DeRito: Keep in mind. I don't have DTS. I don't have a plane ticket. Nothing. I'm just doing what I'm told. All right. And I get there and Gunner Sergeant Alessio and Gunner Sergeant Clay, like they turn around and they go, he opens up his flip phone. He's like, Roger that, sir. We'll tell him. Can a Dorito. I'm like, yeah.
SPC Adam DeRito: It's like the colonel changed his mind. He's giving you another chance. I'm like, what the fuck is going on right now? They drive me all the way back to OCS when everyone thinks I got kicked out. They had me unpack my stuff They said on one condition. You're now the battalion candidate [00:27:00] company commander.
SPC Adam DeRito: You're in charge of OCS now Like oh no so But the thing is you put me under pressure. I actually react better, right? So that's one thing I've learned about myself over the years. So I immediately got back and We're going on our six mile ruck march. I think it was and They had me running around the circle like they just, I mean, they just beat the crap out of me.
SPC Adam DeRito: They were just trying to get me to quit so bad. And, uh, gunner Sergeant Leslie was like, Trito, are you a blue falcon? And I'm just like thinking, I'm like blue falcon. I'm like, Air Force Academy mascot is a falcon. Yes, this this candidate is a blue falcon. He's like what and I'm like this candidate is a blue falcon He's like what the fuck did you just say?
SPC Adam DeRito: He's like start running satellites and I just start running around the entire OCS Battalion on their six mile ruck marks yelling this candidate is a blue falcon for like a solid 90 minutes or something like that so like my six mile ruck marks and they're being probably 12 and I get back to the squad bay and One of the prior enlisted [00:28:00] Marines who is an e7 going through OCS.
SPC Adam DeRito: His name was gunners aren't Snyder comes up to me He's like Dorito I don't think you're a bad guy, but I do think you're genuinely stupid. He's like, you just spent the last, like, several hours running around the entire battalion at OCS saying that you were a buddy fucker. And I'm just like, oh, damn it.
SPC Adam DeRito: He's like, alright man, look, you obviously are He's like, you didn't quit, you've obviously proven that Yeah, except the Air Force kids, right? So, they're like Obviously you want to be here and you're trying you're not a shitbag You're just you just don't know like you just you have no idea what you're doing.
SPC Adam DeRito: He's like i'm gonna help you out So gunner sergeant snyder bless his heart like he's probably a fucking major at this point But he uh, he coached me through he helped me learn all the marine stuff learn the terminology, you know, learn to memorize the shooting tables and everything else and Uh, all the tactics and everything else, all the infantry stuff.
SPC Adam DeRito: And I ended up graduating OCS with like a 99. 8 percent average, which is like, even, even Colonel Mancini is like, there's no fucking way that you got this high. Cause [00:29:00] I started maxing all my tests. P. T. Everything else. I just, I want to be here. I want to be a Marine and, uh, we, I'll never forget this story either.
SPC Adam DeRito: So we get to the final review. It's the parade review where Colonel Mancini comes to each individual candidate and tells you if you're going to graduate or not, and you're on the parade deck with your M 16. It's like 115 degrees out there in Quantico, Virginia. You're sweating your balls off. And of course I fucked this up because I'm an idiot.
SPC Adam DeRito: So they know. So master Sergeant Sandercock and Colonel Mancini to do a right face. They face me. And you do your, you know, your rifle, rifle presentation, right? So you, you snap it to parade, you know, the parade position, you snap the bolt open, you punch the rifle up in the air so that the battalion OCS commander can inspect your rifle.
SPC Adam DeRito: And as I did that, my front sight post hit the cover of Colonel Mancini's hat and threw it into the wind. And it just catches this gust of wind and just starts flying down the blacktop. And I just see in the background. I'm trying to keep a straight face. I'm like, [00:30:00] that's it. Like my life is over And I see I see gunner sergeant clay and gunner sergeant alessio standing on the other side of the parade deck And there's this little tree on the side of the blacktop and they're just punching it mercilessly until like their knuckles are bleeding And they're just like mouthing like i'm gonna fucking kill you when we get back to the squad day And curlman seems just like a badass this turns.
SPC Adam DeRito: He goes Dorito he's like Congratulations Dorito, you're going to graduate and be a Marine officer. And he just snaps to his left and carries on without his cover like nothing happened. And Gunnery Sergeant Sandercock just looks at me and just shakes his head and just like I have nothing to say to you.
SPC Adam DeRito: I have nothing to say to you. So I graduate Marinos, yes, and obviously I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder because I'm like, I was really proud of myself. By far, even to this day, probably one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. And I won, like, to me, like, I won. I beat the academy. I'm going to be a marine officer.
SPC Adam DeRito: I'm going to be a naval aviator. I just have to go back to the academy and survive my last [00:31:00] two semesters. That's it. So, like, basically, I was the only person OCS who didn't get his second lieutenant bars because I had to go back to the academy and finish up my degree. So I go back to the academy and, uh, you know, I really want nothing to do with OSI at this point, because, like, I just, I just need to keep my head down and graduate at this point.
SPC Adam DeRito: Try to be the gray man as much as that wasn't a phrase in my vocabulary being Dorito at the Air Force Academy. And, uh, this is kind of interesting. So I show up back to the Air Force Academy in, uh, like end of August 2009, and there was a swine flu outbreak. So I couldn't actually report directly back to the Academy because, uh, they were quarantining the entire base.
SPC Adam DeRito: And ironically, They don't consider marine officer candidate school a leadership credit and you need a leadership credit to graduate your summer program So they made me come back to be a drill instructor for cadet basic training Right out of marine ocs now all my air force uniforms are in my room, you know And so I show up, I'm like 25 [00:32:00] pounds lighter, I got like a super sweet high and tight, right down to a skin fade, which I never wore my hair like that in the Air Force.
SPC Adam DeRito: And, uh, I'm walking across the terrazzo to pick up my Air Force uniforms because they were assigning me to go to the prep school. And this is important for my story, but they were going to assign me to be a drill instructor cadre for the prep school on the other side of base, which is where we were doing a lot of the investigations prior with OSI.
SPC Adam DeRito: So I'm walking across the Toronto and all these kids are in processing for basic training for like the class of 2015 or 14, whatever it was. And I see this kid in a flight suit and he's got these stupid like pit viper rainbow. Like, sunglasses on, and like the Marine Corps and me just like snaps, I start knife handing this guy and yelling at him across the truck, it's like, Hey, you're in a fucking basic training environment, take off those fucking sunglasses, you know?
SPC Adam DeRito: That person thought I was an officer, because of the way I was yelling, and like, how I was carrying myself, and I walk closer and it's a colonel. In the Air Force. And I'm just, and he's like, [00:33:00] Dorito, get in my fucking office right now, and I'm like, dammit. And I get dragged into this office and he's like, look.
SPC Adam DeRito: I know about you, your, your name's all over this place. He's like, I know you just got back from Reno Cs. I know you think you're fucking hot shit, but you're back at the Air Force Academy now. And I swear to God, if you ever call out an officer like that from across Toroso, like your time here is done. I was like, Roger that, sir.
SPC Adam DeRito: So he said, go get your uniforms and get over the prep school. You're not supposed to be here 'cause of the quarantine stuff. So I'm not gonna ask. So I go grab my Air Force uniforms. I go over to the prep school and man, I just like. The Marine Corps just didn't shut off. So like I ran these kids into the ground.
SPC Adam DeRito: I ran them every day and they were in the best shape of their lives. And they graduated, uh, prep school, basic training for sure. I didn't need the other squads and I was hard on them, but it was a great experience. And I really appreciated my experience being cadre there. But the interesting thing was, and this is like where I kind of screwed myself in a way, was I told those kids, I'm like, Hey.
SPC Adam DeRito: Because I was still working for OSI, you know, I told them my experience with sexual assault at the academy and how leadership really doesn't support [00:34:00] you, but I said, Hey, if something comes up when you're at the prep school and you guys are trying to get ready to go to the Air Force Academy, just reach out to me, shoot me an email.
SPC Adam DeRito: Here's my phone number. You know, I could take care of it for you or try to give you some advice. And it was, I think, September or October of 2009. And I get an email from one of these candidates. And or not an email phone call and they said hey sir I know i'm not supposed to be talking to you because it's technically considered fraternization or whatever But you know, i'm at a hotel in denver I'm drunk and I think I just got raped and i'm like shit And she's like i'm too afraid to call my chain of command because I know i'm gonna get in trouble because we're underage drinking We're not even supposed to be off base O.
SPC Adam DeRito: T. F. Or we called it over the fence. So I call O. S. I. And I call the sapper office and I say, this is what's going on. And keep in mind, they should have taken jurisdiction of this case at that point in time. And they didn't. They were just like, all right, go get her. I'm like, okay. So I go jump in my car or my truck and I go, I don't want to hear it.
SPC Adam DeRito: Don't tell me the story. I don't want to get involved any. I'm just getting you back and I'm gonna drop you off at the sapper office. I don't want to know what [00:35:00] happened. This is up to them. And, uh, they never should have let me do that. They should have 100 percent of it. got her or whatever else it was, and they didn't.
SPC Adam DeRito: Um, but this is how they ran things back then in 2009. So I get her back to the academy and I drop her off at the Sapper office and she's got a victim advocate there and everything else. And I thought that was the end of it. So I kind of remained distant from OSI because I go home for Christmas. I come back and it's like February of 2010, right?
SPC Adam DeRito: And it's hundreds night and I find out. Yes, I got right and even your commander doesn't know what your assignments going to be so a hundred days out from graduation This is big ceremony and you get a sealed envelope from the secretary of the Air Force stating what your assignments going to be when you?
SPC Adam DeRito: Graduate and my commander's like you're never gonna fucking get marina. Oh, yes You're never gonna be a marine officer. You're gonna be stuck in the Air Force. Fuck you I'm like, okay, his name is lieutenant colonel christianson and even to this day. I despise this man with a He is what's wrong with the T.
SPC Adam DeRito: O. D. by far. And I open up my envelope, and I pull it out, and it's got this [00:36:00] giant seal of the Marine Corps Eagle Globe and Anchor on it. And I just, I literally did the scene from, what, uh, Half Baked? I was like, or Waiting? I was like, Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool, fuck you, I'm out, right? And I'm just like, And he was so mad that I got my assignment to the Marine Corps, like he was so unbelievably pissed.
SPC Adam DeRito: And I'm like, I just got to keep my head low for a hundred days. That's it. And I'm out of here. And I report to TBS. And I'm at the basic school for the Marine Corps. And then I go to flight school and I'm done. And uh, two weeks later, shit you not, I get called into my commander's office again. And he's like, Hey, you need to go talk to OSI.
SPC Adam DeRito: I'm like, Oh, here we go again. So I thought it was because I've been ignoring OSI. I, you know, cause I, I really don't want to work for them anymore. I'm like, I just want to graduate guys. Like I don't want. Any involvement in this stuff anymore? So I go down there, and they're like, Hey man, so like, you've kind of been out of the, uh, ether for a while, like, what's going on?
SPC Adam DeRito: And, uh, I tell them what's been going on, I tell them what happened at the prep school, and they're like, yeah, well we needed more information on that. And, oh hey, by the way, all those [00:37:00] kids got called in for questioning by their commander, and that commander now wants to charge you with fraternization for interacting with the, with the lower classmen at the prep school.
SPC Adam DeRito: And I'm like, Okay, and they're like, well, we got your back. We're gonna, we're gonna talk to the superintendent. Like you've been working for us for two years. Like we'll let him know. So I go to this, uh, Review board for this. They're trying to give me an article 15 for fraternization. This is like what now It's like three weeks out from graduation like end of April, whatever it is going into May And even my former commanders like the army AOC, which I didn't really talk about you can listen to my other podcast You want to hear anything about major Hugh bank?
SPC Adam DeRito: But he even comes in in full dress greens and he's just like yeah cadet is not a perfect cadet But he's my cadet and this guy's gonna go in the Marine Corps I don't know what you guys are so worried about and here's another crazy part, which has never happened since Even my OSI handler came in, Agent Munson was like, yeah, Cadet Dorito is good.
SPC Adam DeRito: He deserves to graduate. He deserves a commission. We don't know what this is about. Just give him his article 15 slap on his wrist and call it good. Right? Because at the end of the day, with article 15, you're not admitting [00:38:00] to guilt. You're just accepting punishment in lieu of. Uh, UCMJ proceedings, right?
SPC Adam DeRito: And with all the hearsay and everything that was going on with this whole frat, like, did you talk? Were you interacting and talking with lower classmen? Technically, yes. Right? So, you know, for them, it's like, frat is frat. Whether you're, whether you're talking to them or having sex with them or whatever else it is, which is not, not accurate.
SPC Adam DeRito: So, If you're ever getting charged with Article 15 and you know you didn't do anything, uh, request trial by court martial. Because if I requested trial by court martial, there's no way these clowns would be able to prove anything, because there's no evidence to anything that happened. So I take my Article 15 for frat, and they're gonna give me 30 days late grad.
SPC Adam DeRito: So 30 days after graduation, they'd give me my commission and I'd walk. I'm like, fine, I'll take that. What's another 30 days at the academy? So, graduation comes up. And they make me sit in the stands with my family, which is like the most, like three hours before graduation, they're like, you're not walking.
SPC Adam DeRito: I'm like, that's fucking awesome. So, I sit in the stands with my family, it was like the most embarrassing day of my life, by far. And I sit there, and I take my [00:39:00] 30 days of punishment from the Article 15. And I'm like, alright, I'm ready to commission. The superintendent calls me into his office, Lieutenant General Michael Gould, and he goes, I changed my mind.
SPC Adam DeRito: I'm pulling everything from you. You're not commissioning. You're done. Here's a, here's a bill for 280, 000 to while you're at it since you owe us back for your degree. Oh, we're not giving you your degree, but either. So not only do they take all my money from my article 15, uh, they didn't give me my commission.
SPC Adam DeRito: They withheld my degree. They threw me out on the highway and I 25, they escorted me out there with a canine unit. Uh, it was, it was a joke. It was an absolute clown show. And what am I going to do? I'm like, what? 22 years old at the time. I have no money. I don't know what to do. I have no lawyer. So. I get thrown off a base and then, uh, a couple months later, one of my good friends at the academy who's in my classes, he took his own life as a commissioned officer and he was getting buried at the Air Force Academy.
SPC Adam DeRito: So I requested permission to go to his funeral and the same cops that escorted me off base the day that I left met me at the gate and like, Hey, I just want to let you know, General Gould is trying to embarrass you. He [00:40:00] wants us to To like basically treat you like Hannibal Lecter With guns at each side fully uniformed with a canine unit and escort you to this funeral But we're not going to do that man because we heard about your story and we think it's bullshit So they they went to the goodwill down the street and bought a bunch of like shitty suits And then they put these like civilian They put these civilian clothes on and drove me in an unmarked vehicle to the funeral.
SPC Adam DeRito: And I stood at his gravesite and we buried Colin. And you could even see the superintendent and the dean and the commandant were there. And they looked at me and they're like, God damn it, he's here. And the security forces guys are wearing civilian clothes, not supposed to be. And they banned me from base for like seven years after that, saying I was like a threat to the base.
SPC Adam DeRito: I'm like, okay. So. I go into the civilian world, right? And I start working as a personal trainer. The only thing I knew how to do is work out. So I start working as a personal trainer at a gym. I start making a little bit of money, and then I meet this guy named Matt Greife, who is a Fallujah veteran in the Marines.
SPC Adam DeRito: He just got his law license done. He just got out of the Marine Corps. And he's like, Hey, man, your case is bullshit, and I'm just starting up my [00:41:00] practice. So how about this? I'll trade you hours if you trade me personal training hours. And I'm like, awesome. So I start, yeah, so I start, uh, helping him out with his VA disability stuff and he starts giving me hours and he starts going through my case.
SPC Adam DeRito: Like, dude, your case is completely bullshit. Like they violated every single one of your constitutional rights. You didn't have a lawyer. Like everything they're doing here is wrong. So we start working on my case and we do our first board of corrections and military records and it gets rejected saying we don't care.
SPC Adam DeRito: Uh, kick rocks. So 2015 rolls around and I still have our 2014 rolls around and I go on Uh, the news with the Colorado Springs Gazette talking about my case, and then I come to find out that Operation Great Iron was expanded even after I was removed from the academy 30 days post graduation. I find out that I was not the only informant.
SPC Adam DeRito: I find out there was several other informants. I find out that. Operation Gridiron was much more widespread, and all those OSI agents that I used to work with, they got sent to like, Kazakhstan, and one of them got sent to F. U. Warren Air Force Base, like, the OSI detachment apparently got [00:42:00] disbanded because this started involving the football team, right?
SPC Adam DeRito: And General Gould was trying to cover this up because all these guys were playing in the Mountain West Conference Football Championship. And he didn't, he wanted to make sure they could still play football. So people can look it up. His name is Jamil Cooks and Claxton were the two guys that were, we were trying to convict and they got convicted after the football game, of course, and the other like 28 of them got away with it.
SPC Adam DeRito: So only two of them got kicked out. Uh, they still went to another division one school, played NCAA football, and they ended up getting recruited to play in the NFL, even though they were convicted sex offenders, because apparently it is not illegal if you're a convicted sex offender to play in the NFL.
SPC Adam DeRito: Or any other division in one sport. It's nuts, right? So, all the work that we did was getting thrown out because the Air Force Academy was trying to cover it up. So, I'm like, alright, I gotta find a way to serve my time out because I have this 200 something thousand dollar thing on my credit report. So, active duty Air Force, Army, Marines are like, Dude, your DD 214 is signed by, like, the Secretary of the Air Force.
SPC Adam DeRito: I don't know who you pissed [00:43:00] off, but you have an RE 4 code, which is you can never serve in the military unless it's like a draft. And on top of that, I have a general discharge under honorable conditions, which makes no sense. Why am I getting an RE 4 code with a general under honorable? It doesn't make any sense.
SPC Adam DeRito: Like, I, I was never convicted of anything. My criminal background is clean, which I've even posted on my website if people don't believe me. Um, so I, I give it one more shot. So I go into the National Guard's office. And they're like, it was kind of weird. And ironically, I ended up deploying with my recruiter on this last deployment.
SPC Adam DeRito: Which was just like, uh, the stars align kind of thing. And he goes, are you that kid that was on the news like last year? Against the Air Force Academy and he's like, I know this sounds really fucking weird But we were always hoping that you're gonna come in and talk to us So he pulls out he pulls he pulls out this fucking like it was like a scene that like Harry Potter, right?
SPC Adam DeRito: He pulls out this book and like brushes the dust off of it And he's like there's this rule in here that states you can join the National Guard and override any [00:44:00] federal duty 214 because the commander in chief of the National Guard Is the governor not the president of the united states so you don't you know So they found an exemption for me to get in without a waiver And we had to call like hickenlooper's office and at the time it was governor hickenlooper Now he's a senator and he pretty much they gave me you can join the national guard, but here's your condition now Keep in mind.
SPC Adam DeRito: I went back to school at this time. I got another degree done. I even finished my master's degree uh, even after the Personal trainings. I was working in the oil and gas industry, which is how I was able to fund all these lawyers. And I had three conditions I had to meet. One, I had to agree to go in as a specialist.
SPC Adam DeRito: That was the highest rank they could put me in on. I'm like, all right, fine. Rule number two was I could, I had to go into a special operations unit. So I had to pick one, uh, the one special operations unit that's in the National Guard, and I can say this now because I'm, I'm, Transitioning units, but it was 19 special forces group.
SPC Adam DeRito: I'm like, okay, and there's one or two jobs I could have picked and it was like parachute rigger or generator mechanic and I already jumped out of [00:45:00] planes at the Academy like parachutes Sound fun. Let's do that. So I pick parachute rigger and then they're like, okay, but here's the thing You had a three year break in service.
SPC Adam DeRito: So you have to go back to army basic training and start all over again I'm like, oh you've got to be kidding me So going through the Air Force Academy and Marine OCS and now I'm like what 27 at the time going through fucking Army basic training and I show up there like 27 years old all the drill instructors are my age Actually, one of them even deployed with one of my best friends from high school, which is hilarious And I show up there and they're like you work for CID and I'm like No, I don't I'm actually here to serve my country sergeant.
SPC Adam DeRito: They're like, no, you're fucking not We already like we googled you Dorito. Yeah Air Force OSI undercover informant like you're totally working for CID It's like here's the thing. Here's the thing Dorito you leave us alone and we'll leave you alone Just help these kids get through basic training We're not even going to talk for the next like 13 weeks.
SPC Adam DeRito: Just just do it. I'm like, okay. And I think to this day, I still think they, I, they still believe that work for CID. So [00:46:00] basic training was great as a cakewalk. It was basically just a giant workout session. I go to a it. I finished rigor school. I come back. I get back to 19th group and, you know, same thing.
SPC Adam DeRito: This kid works for CID. Why is a 27 year old specialist? What the fuck is wrong with this guy? And, uh, I do two years in 19th group and everything's great. You know, I'm like, Oh, just doing my job. Pack and choose and jump out of planes, right? Slapping green berets on the ass and kicking them out of planes or helicopters.
SPC Adam DeRito: And, uh, they're like, all right, you know what, Dorito? You can get, you can apply to go commission again. So I find a slot to go fly Apaches in the Utah national guard as a warrant officer. And I'm like, finally, if I can just commission, I can move on with my life, like, everything's gonna go great. My packet's filled out, I'm down at Carson, I'm getting my last thing to get my orders to go to Rucker, and I get to the final station, like, hey man, we can't sign off on your shit.
SPC Adam DeRito: And I'm like, why? And they're like, well, there's several major psychological conditions listed in your medical records. Like what are you talking about? And shit you're not, in 2011, one year after I left the academy as a civilian, a random doctor, who I never [00:47:00] met, her name is Dr. Chris Nicole Henley Price, with my commander at the time, Lieutenant Colonel Christensen, put into my medical records that I had several major psychological issues.
SPC Adam DeRito: Uh, that prevented me from flying or commissioning. Do you ever put a complaint in against this doctor? And it's like, well, if you want these changed, you have to go to the Air Yeah, and the, uh, the American Psychological Association refuses to do anything about it. They refuse to revoke her license because she falls under military standards, so they can't control her.
SPC Adam DeRito: Um At the time, she was even operating without a license now in the state of Colorado, which is interesting because in the military, it doesn't really matter because you're even if you have a license in like, I think, Georgia or Florida, whatever it is where she came from, you don't have to have a license to operate in Colorado because you're operating on a military base.
SPC Adam DeRito: However, that changes if the person you're doing things against Is a civilian. So my biggest argument was in 2011 when I wasn't even in the fucking military and when I wasn't even on that base This civilian doctor put in some things into my military mental health records when I wasn't even in the military So my biggest complaint was [00:48:00] she wasn't Legally and ethically allowed to do that And I put another air force board of corrections military records and that's when I uh, I put my beret on my full uniform It's past the seven year barment From the air force academy.
SPC Adam DeRito: It's 2017 now, right? So exactl
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