CNN’s O’Sullivan Interviews MAGA Supporters Saying America ‘Is Not a Democracy,’ It’s a Republic

JIMENEZ: “President Biden touts his reelection campaign as a fight to preserve democracy. But if you ask some Trump supporters, the former president is not a threat to democracy because the United States is not a democracy. CNN’s Donie O’Sullivan spoke to some of those supporters.”

[Clip starts]
O’SULLIVAN: “What happens if Trump loses?”
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 1: “I don’t see him losing.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 1: “I don’t think he lost the last election, to be honest.”
O’SULLIVAN: “Do you think he’s going to win?”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 2: “Yes.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 3: “Yes. Without a doubt.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 2: “No doubt.”
O’SULLIVAN: “What if he doesn’t this time? What happens to the country?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 2: “We’re done.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 3: “We’re in big trouble.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 2: “Biden talks about democracy, you know, saving democracy. They’re the ones that are killing democracy.”
O’SULLIVAN: “Obviously, there’s a lot of criticisms of Trump, that he is bad for democracy, that he’s bad for American democracy — “
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 1: “Can I say something? We’re a republic.”
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 1: “We’re a republic.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 1: “We are not a democracy.”
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 1: “We are representative Republican. We’re not a democracy.”

O’SULLIVAN (voice-over): “One thing we’ve been hearing at Trump rallies like this over the past few months is that America isn’t really a democracy.”

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 4: “America’s not a democracy, it’s a republic.”
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 2: “It’s not a democracy. OK? Democracy is actually not as good as you think it is.”

O’SULLIVAN (voice-over): “But for centuries, America has celebrated its democracy.”

Reagan: “Democracy is worth dying for.”

BUSH: “Democracy remains the definition of political legitimacy.”

O’SULLIVAN (voice-over): “But some Republicans and pro-Trump media are pushing the idea that America is not a democracy.”

CAIN: “the United States of America is not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic.”

Johnson: “United States of America is not a democracy. You don’t want to be in a democracy.”

HEGSETH: “We are not a democracy. We are a republic.”

O’SULLIVAN: “Is America a democracy?”
APPLEBAUM: “America is a democracy. It was founded as a democracy.”
O’SULLIVAN: “I’ve heard a lot of conspiracy theories. I hear a lot of things out on the road. But to hear Americans, people who would describe themselves as patriots say that America is not a democracy. That stopped me in my tracks.”
APPLEBAUM: “You are hearing people say America is not a democracy because there are people around Trump who want them to be saying that, who’ve been planting that narrative.”

O’SULLIVAN: “Is America a democracy?”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 2: “No.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 3: “No. I don’t — I think — we’re a republic.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: “Well, not really, but yes, we’re a republic.”
O’SULLIVAN: “What’s the difference?”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 3: “I feel like democracy — let me think this through. That it’s government-controlled. I don’t see freedom in democracy. I see freedom in the republic.”

APPLEBAUM: “Honestly, the word ‘democracy’ and the word ‘republic’ have often been used interchangeably. There isn’t a meaningful difference between them.”
O’SULLIVAN: “So much of the warnings and criticism about Trump is that he is a threat to democracy, that he is anti-democratic.
APPLEBAUM: “Absolutely. If they can convince people that we don’t have a democracy, then it’s okay that Trump is attacking democracy, because it doesn’t really matter.”

O’SULLIVAN: “So why, like, why has democracy become a bad word?”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 5: Because it’s being used in a way to change the flavor of our country, which is a republic.”

APPLEBAUM: “These words were used in different ways in the 18th century, and it’s true, the Founders didn’t want direct democracy, by which they meant people gathering on the town square. They wanted representative democracy. But I think the reason why this conversation about language has risen now is because there is a part of the Republican Party that would like to rule as a minority and they need an excuse for why that’s okay. And so they have begun to say, we’re not a democracy, we’re a republic. And it’s not 100 percent clear what that means, but I think they mean, ‘We want Donald Trump to be able to do whatever he wants.’”

O’SULLIVAN: “Some people I’ve been speaking to at Trump events recently — “
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 6: “Yes?”
O’SULLIVAN: “ — have been saying, America is not a democracy, it’s a republic.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 6: “We’ve always been in a democracy. First of all — “
O’SULLIVAN (on-camera): “Yes.”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 6: “ — I mean, we used to have freedom of speech, freedom of religion. We used to have that too. Now they’re picking on the Christians and the Jewish people. I mean, how — how much more can we take?”
O’SULLIVAN: “Are you concerned if Trump loses — “
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 6: “Yes.”
O’SULLIVAN (on-camera): — that there will be another January 6th?”
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE 6: “No, I think there will be a civil war. That’s what I think will happen.”
[Clip ends]

O’SULLIVAN: “And Omar, look, there is, of course, a legitimate debate discussion to be had on what form of democracy we have here in the United States, direct democracy, representative democracy, in fact, constitutional republic, which you heard people mentioned in that piece, that is a form of democracy. But look, this is not actually a debate about government, about democracy. It’s an attack on democracy. People have heard the warnings that Trump is a danger to democracy, and therefore you have people trying to convince others that, well, the United States isn’t a democracy in the first place, and therefore Trump can’t be a threat. Omar?”
JIMENEZ: “Donie, appreciate the reporting, as always, always insightful.”