129. Chewing the Fat with Carnivore JT
Today I talk with Carnivore JT. He is big on social medial. Please listen to hear more. Thank you.
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129. Carnivore JT
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Carnivore JT: [00:00:00] The gospel of LDL is going to kill you is a consensus statement. And what a consensus statement is, is a group of people that are experts in the field get together, look over all the data. They come up with all this information and then they go, this is basically a fact. And their fact is LDL causes heart disease.
Carnivore JT: And because of that, you should start taking these lipid lowering drugs. There's seven pharmaceutical companies listed 143 times. You're telling me that I should start listening to what Pfizer paid these people to come up with I'm the one that's weird for questioning it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch. Which always provides prime or high choice. Has never been given hormones. Never been given antibiotics. Never been given mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA. It's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated. Which means that they own the cow. That gives birth to the calf.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's raised on their fields. and then taken to their [00:01:00] butcher and then shipped to you. And if we compare what we can buy from Riverbend Ranch to four other major steak companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat.
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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And don't forget to check out MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash After Hours for better than grass fed, grass finished beef and some of the best beef I've ever tasted in my life. My next guest today is Carnivore JT, or Jason. Now, Jason, you are a subscriber to Carnivore, is that correct?
Carnivore JT: Yes. Yeah, I've been coming up on two years. September will be two years now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So, yeah, two years. That's a wonderful time frame to be doing this. What opened up your mind to do this? And does it have anything to do with your profession? Um, are you in the medical field at all? Um, do you think it would, uh, make it easier if you were in the medical field or more difficult to open your mind to eating this way?
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thanks
Carnivore JT: Oh man. Uh, [00:04:00] so I am not currently in the medical field. Um, my background is in sports. Uh, and so my, the science end of it, um, my bachelor's is in sports medicine. I have a master's of science and then I spent a number of years coaching, um, baseball collegiately at the division one level in addition to strength, conditioning, personal training, all that jazz.
Carnivore JT: Um, Had a stint of, of amateur bodybuilding in there. So a lot of my background is the nutrition aspect of it. And honestly, I kind of started carnivore because I had kids, got a dad, bod put on a few extra pounds. And I was like, nah, I gotta, I gotta get off of this. And my old tricks were working, but I still, I felt like crap.
Carnivore JT: I was like, man, like. So this is dumb. Like I'm being super strict. I'm not cheating. I'm not having any alcohol. I'm not doing anything and I still feel terrible and by terrible, I mean like I was still bloated all the time. I felt like [00:05:00] lethargic was zero processed food, zero nothing. And so then I gave it up, gained the weight back and then finally had a, an aha moment where I was like, all right, I gotta, I gotta do something else.
Carnivore JT: I came across carnivore. I started on the animal based, which is carnivore plus basically fruits and started that instantly felt better. And from a, from a physiological standpoint, I can understand it. Never thought of it, but I can understand it. And so I was like, okay, I can start doing this. I really did it haphazardly for about three months and I got really good results.
Carnivore JT: And I was like, okay, I'm going to buckle down a little bit more. And that was beginning of 23 and I've. Kind of buckled down ever since I've slowly gotten stricter and stricter and gotten rid of the animal based aspect. And so now I'm strict carnivore and it's honestly I do because I feel better. Um, it's helped a number of [00:06:00] not very serious medical conditions, like, you know, some psoriasis issues.
Carnivore JT: Um, even though it doesn't appear. So, like, some of my, my balding stopped, had a little bit of hair regrowth, just just a number of things. Um, I started sleeping better. And again, nothing crazy. Like I, I can share crazy stories from people who have, have had huge successes, but mine was just a whole bunch of little things that it just felt better.
Carnivore JT: And you know, people will often tell me, why are you doing this? Or why would you be so restrictive or it's not sustainable? And I'm like, cause honestly, I feel better. I could, I could go back to eating whatever I want. As long as I had periods of like, you know, going back to strict, you know, not eating junk food.
Carnivore JT: I could eat whatever I want, but I don't feel as good. So I don't want to, I mean, that's. I feel like that's the definition of sustainable to me.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How does life get better? And life gets better in so many ways when you eat this [00:07:00] way,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: 100%. So when you, when you went from eating, probably most people would say, Hey, I was eating pretty clean. And then you went to, uh, this animal base where it's like fruit and meat, meats and sweets as some people say, um, what did you cut out specifically? I just want to hear you say it so that everyone can understand why you're not eating vegetables, you know, so that they get past that moment.
Carnivore JT: That was honestly it. So the. The last little diet run I did before I started animal based was whole 30. Um, I did that for 90 days and for anybody who doesn't know whole 30, it's literally just whole foods. Um, which is what most people would think of clean eating. And the biggest difference is I replaced the lean meats, uh, chicken, ground Turkey, that, um, with higher, higher fat content beef.
Carnivore JT: And then, [00:08:00] uh, I still, you know, I eat some other meats, but beef is the majority of what I and then I cut the vegetables out and that's the one that shocks people. They're like, you don't eat vegetables. I'm like, no, I legit feel a hundred times better by not eating vegetables. And I will go round and round with people all day long.
Carnivore JT: But man, I'm telling you, when people start cutting out vegetables, they instantly feel better. Like it's not something that six months down the road, I'm going to feel better. Uh, you know, after my body adjust, no, it's like the same day that I cut vegetables out, I started feeling better. And I was like, I'm not ever doing this again.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, people are shocked when I say, Oh, I haven't had a vegetable in four years. They're like, What? But my mom always said I had to eat them. Well, who else teaches you need to eat vegetables? The government.
Carnivore JT: The government.[00:09:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They also tell you you should eat all the grains. Interesting, huh?
Carnivore JT: Yeah, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm currently, so that's the other thing, man. When you start eating this way, you basically red pill yourself. Like you start looking into other aspects. You're like, okay. So they tell me I shouldn't eat red meat, but I feel better eating red meat.
Carnivore JT: They tell me I should eat vegetables, but I feel better without eating vegetables. And then you just go on and on and on. And then you start getting into nutritional studies and You know, you start looking into, I don't even know if you can call it a conspiracy. I'm pretty sure it's a proven fact of back in the sixties when they paid off scientists to lie about saturated fat in favor of sugar.
Carnivore JT: It's like, no, it's, you know, they told everybody saturated fats, the culprit and sugar is not a problem. And then you just realize that there's just this whole trail. Then you go, okay, well, what exactly can I look at? And it culminates with, um, I did this video [00:10:00] on, on LDL and I went crazy. Um, it's about to hit a million views on, on Instagram right now.
Carnivore JT: Wow. And there are hundreds of people in the comments defending big pharmaceutical companies like it for anybody who hasn't seen the video. It's the most like the gospel of LDL is going to kill you is a consensus statement. It's the European atherosclerosis society. And what a consensus statement is, is a group of people that are experts in the field get together, they look over all the data, they come up with all this information, and then they go, this is basically a fact and their fact is LDL causes heart disease.
Carnivore JT: And because of that, you should. Start taking these lipid lowering drugs and all I literally did was somebody cited that I went down to the conflicts of interest statement And I was like, mmm, there's seven pharmaceutical companies listed 143 times and it's this this this this That's literally the entire video [00:11:00] and the number of people who come in and go but it's the study wrong All right.
Carnivore JT: Are you suggesting that it's, that's not good science? And I'm like, wait, what you're telling me that I should start listening to what Pfizer paid these people to come up with. And I'm the one that's weird for questioning it. And just because Pfizer had a hand in financially contributing to the people whose opinion favored them the most, why does that make the data wrong?
Carnivore JT: I'm like, wow, can't be serious. Right? Like you, you literally cannot tell me And then people will just will justify it any which way. And I'm like, okay, like at some point. And then I did a follow up video and I'm like, cool. These seven companies have paid out 28 billion in fines since 2000 because, you know, they're, they care about health
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: and they're doing good things for humanity.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. Right. That's, that's all they're here for to help us. It doesn't matter if stuff is, you know, experimental or they pay people to skew data [00:12:00] or, you know, whatever it is, it's, we should trust them.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I found this article from 2012 written by the American heart association saying that if we, 2012, if we lower LDL, we increase the risk of a fib atrial fibrillation.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, how do you keep people going to the cardiologist? Well, you give them all a fib with the medication that you're required by insurance to give, to lower their risk of, of heart attacks and strokes. Yeah.
Carnivore JT: And, and what, what they've done basically is they, they came up with this arbitrary number. They're like, you know what?
Carnivore JT: A hundred and 30, uh, I forget what the actual is 99 units
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: for LDL.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. I forget what the units of measurement are for LDL. Um, they're like 130. That's the number. If you are above that, we got to get you below it. And then they come back and go, you know what? I think a hundred. And then other doctors goes, you know what, we should really try to get everybody under [00:13:00] 70.
Carnivore JT: And then your doctors come out and goes, This is what they're working on right now. And I don't think people understand they're working on gene altering technology to try to get people to zero. They want people to get to as close to an LDL of zero as possible, which is also mind blowing because LDL is not actually cholesterol.
Carnivore JT: LDL is a lipoprotein that carries cholesterol through your bloodstream. And so it's, it's just like, it's, it's no different than the American diabetic association. Okay. putting added sugar recipes on their websites. And like, it's just, at some point you have to like, stop looking at studies and go, okay, let's just think about this a little bit.
Carnivore JT: And does this make sense whatsoever? I
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: mean, it's, it's just you explaining that it's almost like people trying to outdo each other with the minimum wage, you know, it's, oh, well, let's do 10, 10 an hour. Let's do 15. I can, I can call for 50. Let's do 50 an [00:14:00] hour. Let's get zero LDL. People will die the moment they're born.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it's,
Carnivore JT: it's one of those things that people I've realized with all the access to information, like everybody wants to live their life based on a study, right? People don't want to do carnivore because they'll go show me the longterm study. I'm like, why do I need a longterm study? And this, this is my, or, or they'll cite, uh, Sean Baker who goes, no, there are no longterm studies.
Carnivore JT: And you know what? Maybe it will kill me early and people are like, what am I going to find you a study that says everything I can find you a study that drink and Coke raises your testosterone. It's in mice, but that doesn't matter. Right. Or I can find you, I can find you a study on anything and my view on it.
Carnivore JT: And for anybody listening and what I tell everybody and I don't give medical advice. And if you listen to me for medical advice, that's your own fault. But if I can eat a certain way. And feel better. [00:15:00] And all of these issues start to resolve themselves, like inflammatory issues start to be resolved. And all of these markers go up, literally every single marker goes up.
Carnivore JT: But then you tell me that there's this one arbitrary number that you made up and that's what's going to kill me. And I'm like, okay, our bodies are a little bit smarter than that. Like I'm, I'm not buying it. That. Your body's going to go, yes, this is good. This is good. This is good. This is good. Just kidding.
Carnivore JT: That's going to kill you.
Carnivore JT: Which by the way, for anyone who doesn't know, LDL is not actually a number that's tested. Okay. It's derived from the Friedwald equation based on other things that they test, which is also funny because in certain situations. such as high HDL and low triglycerides, you can get a skewed Friedwald equation, but they don't actually test for it.
Carnivore JT: They can, [00:16:00] but it's a much more invasive process and they don't typically do blood tests for it. They just derive it from an equation.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's interesting. I didn't know that. I probably should have known that.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. Like people are like, I'm going to test for it. And you're like, well, I mean, you're kind of going to test for it, but you're going to come up with an equation for it. But yeah, like, so like, that's the LDL thing for me.
Carnivore JT: Um, again, do I, do I think you should completely disregard it? No. But in the absence of like literally every other metabolic marker, it's something that you can go, okay, like I'll look at it, but should I jump on a medication for it? Like, no, I don't know. Now go look into the side effects of statins and studies that are showing people are getting dementia from it.
Carnivore JT: And you're like, at some point we got to stop trying to use drugs for everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And literally like just live how you're intended to, which they then come back [00:17:00] with. But our ancestors lived to 35. I'm like, yeah, because they died from paper cuts. Like, like you literally died from infections.
Carnivore JT: What everybody died from, because there was no penicillin, there's no antibiotics. Everybody literally died. The moment they got hurt.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right. And I think that's the long term study. That is the 10, 000 year study to show that it worked is that. They live long enough for us to live here today to start eating garbage to destroy our health.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. Which I mean, that's like, and then that's the next thing people literally 90 percent of what I do is try and combat people talking about how eating processed food is okay.
Carnivore JT: Or it's healthy or that in literally industrial seed oils, which were literally designed as engine lubricant. That's the biggest scam of the century is how Canada got us to eat canola oil. And you're telling me that's cardio protective. There are doctors with a platform on social media that tell you [00:18:00] that seed oils are cardio protective.
Carnivore JT: I'm like, you've let it like go watch a video on how seed oils are made. There's a byproduct. They bleach it. There's bleaching clay that they use and the bleaching clay that's leftover has to be put in a landfill because it's too toxic to do anything with, but it's good for us.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But there was a thing that they said that Oreos lower LDL. As much as statins and, and that should make you go, Hmm, why is my doctor either not prescribing me Oreos or maybe my LDL shouldn't be lowered?
Carnivore JT: Yeah, that's a fascinating one. So I, I know Nick and I've talked to him, uh, multiple times about it. And for anybody who hasn't seen it, uh, Nick Norwitz is what you would call a lean mass hyper responder.
Carnivore JT: So he has is very lean and has very high. LDL. And so what he did is he ran a trial and said, okay, [00:19:00] I am hypothesizing that I can lower my LDL more by eating. I think it was like 12 Oreos a day. Don't quote me on it. That's it's in the study. I can lower it more over a couple of weeks with Oreos than I can with statins.
Carnivore JT: And he did. And he lowered his LDL significantly more eating Oreos as the only thing that he changed in his diet. And it goes to his lipid energy model, which I'm not. I don't have a hundred percent grasp on it, but yeah, that, that brings the statement. Okay. You're telling me that I can lower this arbitrary number that's going to kill me.
Carnivore JT: And you're telling me that every, like they'll come up with the statistics for every 10 points that it drops, you lower your risk of heart disease by 15%. Like it's just these crazy numbers and you go, okay, so what you're telling me is that eating Oreos is beneficial for this and thus Oreos is going to reduce my risk of heart disease.
Carnivore JT: Thanks. Like, do you realize how absurd that is? [00:20:00]
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's absolutely absurd. And, you know, I've actually written a prescription for beer, but I'll never write a prescription for Oreos. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And for all the, for all the naysayers out there, there's a guy in ICU who was going through withdrawals and he's like, just give me a beer. And so in, in those situations, you do give them back the medication they've been taking for 20 years and all of a sudden their dementia, uh, or their, their DTs and all that go away within minutes.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Once you get them back on the medication that they've been on for years.
Carnivore JT: That's crazy. I didn't know you could actually prescribe beer.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. It was a cheap stuff. It was a tall boy to a day. Yeah. That's awesome.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But the moral of that story is, don't prescribe beer, just don't drink that much every day to where you become, your brain becomes dependent on that medication to slow it down.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. That's, that's nuts. But I mean, that's like, that's the same thing. So that's, that's like you taking that and going, you know what?
Carnivore JT: I think we should give dementia patients [00:21:00] beer. You're like, wait, what? That doesn't make sense. Literally everybody would go, well, that doesn't make sense. And you're like, but that's what the data is. Like I literally have like a documented and equals one study that it works. So why shouldn't we? And then all of a sudden people with common sense come in, they're like, Oh, we'll see that doesn't make sense.
Carnivore JT: I'm like, okay, can we apply that to the rest of nutrition, please? Just one time.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So what opened your mind to it? Like, what doctor did you start following early on, or, or what studies, or was it books, or did you just, like, brute force on your own, figure it out, or how, how did that happen? How would I open someone else's mind that I want to open? That's what I'm trying to figure out, because that is the biggest thing, is eat only meat and get healthy, and we're going against people like The Who, who put red meat, cigarettes, and uranium in the same category of carcinogen.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I mean, that's absurd!
Carnivore JT: Yeah, I mean, that's so Paul Saladino. Uh, he used [00:22:00] to be carnivore MD and then has switched, changed his stance to what you would consider animal based. Um, he gets a lot of hate, which the thing you have to realize about Saladino is Saladino lives a life that nobody else lives. Right.
Carnivore JT: He's independently wealthy. He lives in Costa Rica. He has access to literally the people that picked the fruit off of the tree two hours ago and he spends his days surfing and literally doing whatever he wants. And so when you're living that kind of lifestyle, you can get away with certain things that the average person can't.
Carnivore JT: And so he is a very big proponent of fruit, um, and raw honey, which I'm not against. I'm not anti fruit or raw honey. I just feel better when I'm not eating it. That's literally why I don't. So that's how I got, um, exposed to it. My wife sent it to me and she's like, all right, so there's this, he's a little kooky, a little [00:23:00] weird, which he is.
Carnivore JT: I'll give it to him. Like that's part of like his allure, right? He's this polarizing figure that puts eggs in his hair and all of this stuff. And you're like, that's kind of weird, but I'm, I'm intrigued. So I'm going to follow along and see what happens. And that's, that's when I started. And I'm like, okay, like I can understand the biology of, of plants having.
Carnivore JT: You know, plant defense chemicals and all this kind of stuff like that. That makes sense. Like I, I took a bunch of biology in college, um, which actually that's not a debated point. Like you can actually go and read plenty of studies where they identify. Yes, they have plant defense chemicals, but how they justify it is they, they view it as like working out.
Carnivore JT: Right. So working out puts stress on your muscles. It breaks down muscles and then your body rebuilt. They're like, that's what plant defense chemicals do. They force your body to work and get rid of them and move through it. And I'm like, I kind of see it, but then you can't tell me I'm weird for saying they have plant defense chemicals when that's literally what you just [00:24:00] said.
Carnivore JT: Like everybody looks at you and they're like, Oh, plant defense chemicals. And I'm like, that's literally what everybody says. They just have a different view on whether it's good or bad. And so I was like, okay, like anything to not be bloated all the time. And so I started, that's literally all I took from him was don't eat vegetables.
Carnivore JT: So I stopped eating vegetables and I was like, this is the best thing in the world. And so I did that for about a year. And then that's when I really started getting a little more red pilled and got a little more deeper into it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. I love Anthony Chafee. Dr. Anthony Chafee really gets into the plant defense. I mean, he, he deep dives into that stuff and it's, it's shocking. I mean, when I lived in Alaska, there was these, this phenomenon with the rabbit population that would go up and down. And as the rat population went up, there'd be more rabbits eating more plants.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I always thought it was the predators go up and they push the population down when in fact it's the plants send a chemical to other plants that they've [00:25:00] been able to measure how it propagates. And it causes the female rabbits to, uh, uh, Abort their fetus. Now that should terrify everybody here because if they can cause a female to abort its female, its fetus, how, how do we know that can't affect humans?
Carnivore JT: Yeah. I mean, that's, and when I started looking, I'm like, okay, what are the benefits of plants, mostly vegetables, right? I'm mostly talking about vegetables and I'm like, okay, so there's some vitamins, but not like a lot, like at the end of the day, if I really, really was worried about it, I can take a pill for that.
Carnivore JT: And then fiber. It's literally all you're getting from plants and people like, Oh, well, you know, phytonutrients and antioxidants. And I'm like, yeah, I can get plenty of that and benefits of them's a little overstated. So like, okay, so fiber, once I removed [00:26:00] fiber, everything was better. Like, and the one I've heard is fiber, which, okay, it blows me.
Carnivore JT: The definition of fiber is the indigestible part of a plant. Okay. That that's red flag. That's number one. What you're telling me is. In order to be healthy, I need to consume this piece of a plant that by definition I can't digest. Okay. And then, you know, there's the fermenting and the gut microbiome and the bacteria and like, okay, maybe, but the one that really gets me is you need fiber to scrub your colon.
Carnivore JT: And I'm like, you're basically telling me I need to like swallow a scrub daddy so that my colon gets cleaned out. Like that's literally the most absurd thing I've ever heard. And if I don't, I'm going to get cancer. Like what?
Carnivore JT: Yeah. And it's yeah. And so then you, you go look at research and this is, this is where I've kind of found my niche [00:27:00] with social media is just like ripping to shreds these research studies, because I've realized that 95 percent of nutrition studies are all just absolute terrible. Like they're, they're terrible.
Carnivore JT: They're horrible. And I started with a fiber study because I can eat fiber for every seven grams of fiber you eat. Your risk of heart disease goes down by 9%. I'll say, okay, that's like a wild claim. How on earth can you correlate that? And sure enough, they go through and they collect with FFQs. And for anybody that doesn't know what FFQ is, it's a food frequency questionnaire, which is how 99.
Carnivore JT: 9 percent of all nutritional studies get their information. And it's literally, you can equate it. To pollsters getting information for the presidential election, right now you can email, but in the past it was, you mailed out this questionnaire could be anywhere from 35 questions to 200 questions. And it starts with this and they go, okay, in the last 12 months, have you [00:28:00] eaten meat?
Carnivore JT: You go? Yes. Okay. Keep going. Have you, how many times have in the. Last 12 months. Have you had a sandwich with steak in it? I don't know, like four times. Okay. On a weekly basis How many times do you eat a main dish with meat in it and it can include casseroles and stews and pot pies? Okay, and then it's like how many times have you had pizza with meat on it or a mixed dish like lasagna or pasta?
Carnivore JT: And all of those Get classified and you're like, okay, like, that's like, all right. And then they compile this data and go, we found that the people who ate 50 grams or less did this and you're like, how can we equate that? Like you literally just asked me if I had pizza and that's. That's a red meat. Like in some studies, that's considered red meat.
Carnivore JT: And you like what? And then they come up with these very specific dosages and these very specific [00:29:00] risk estimates. And in the study, they'll say, you know, we can't prove it because it's an observational study, but it's our hypothesis. And I know that there's this margin of error. So don't focus on the risk estimate, but CNN is going to run an article that says eat more fiber.
Carnivore JT: You're going to die. And then everybody believes it. Everybody cites it. Everybody treats it as gospel. And then you go, what are we doing here? Like, this is the most absurd like correlation is causation thing I've ever seen.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's incredible. Isn't it? That they can say, Oh, you ate some pizza and some lasagna and that counts as red meat. So don't eat red meat.
Carnivore JT: That's literally what it is. That's what started. This was the Harvard study on red meat and diabetes. And somebody came out and they're like, Wait a minute. Let's take a look at this.
Carnivore JT: And they pulled up the FFQ that they used and sandwiches, [00:30:00] lasagna, pizza, mixed dish, pastas, hot dogs, hamburgers. Like, it doesn't matter whether it's you made a patty or you went to McDonald's. All of those fell under the umbrella of red meat. And they're like, we have found That people that eat more of this get, I'm like, well, no shit.
Carnivore JT: Like you go find the person that goes to McDonald's, eats a two ounce patty, but then eats all the other garbage with it. And of course they're going to get diabetes. Like you, you can't be shocked that that's the result, but instead you come back and tell me that it's based on red meat.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right. Cause they eat that.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They're, they're eating a potato doused in bad oils. They're not eating meat.
Carnivore JT: Which not only bad oils, but it's been fried over and over and over and over again. And there's numerous studies showing that the more often you heat up and then cool down and then heat up these seed oils, the worse it gets, but it's.
Carnivore JT: [00:31:00] The red meat that's causing what
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: do you get into the statistics at all and how those can easily be manipulated if you know how to massage the numbers in the way that you want them to.
Carnivore JT: Uh, so a little bit, um, I got into a little bit with the LDL study. Um, so I have a little bit of background in, in statistics. As far as I've taken, I took a couple of statistic classes in college, but what people, people think it's impossible to they're like, well, it's data.
Carnivore JT: You can't do anything with it. I'm like, no. If I adjust my endpoints, right? So if I adjust the points of which I collect my data, I can now, because I can observe it in a trend, right? I can now do a cutoff and get it to say something that's not what it is. Um, the LDL one is a huge one. They, the end point for their graph, cause you'll see this graph.
Carnivore JT: Everybody will do this linear causation between LDL and heart disease. [00:32:00] And the end point for their data was a major cardiac event, which seems reasonable, you know, heart attack, stroke, something like that. But if you take that same data and replot it for an atherosclerotic cardiovascular death, then all of a sudden it's a, a scatterplot and it's all over the place.
Carnivore JT: And then you go, well. Okay. So maybe it's possibly linear with heart disease, but it's definitely not linear with dying from heart disease. And what's more important, like 75 percent of people that have a heart attack, have LDL within the normal range. So high LDL is not going to kill me, but it's going to give me a heart attack.
Carnivore JT: But most people that have a heart attack don't have high LDL or what exactly are you telling me is going to happen if I have high LDL and [00:33:00] most times I'm like, well, it's going to kill you. I'm like, okay, then why didn't you plot that? Because it doesn't look as good and that that's a manipulation of data is choosing my endpoints, choosing my start points, choosing what studies I keep, choosing what studies I exclude.
Carnivore JT: And all by that, I can get a result that looks better than What other
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: things have you, uh, started questioning that's really made you question even more or kind of dig in places that you never thought you should even need to dig in
Carnivore JT: literally everything now,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: like,
Carnivore JT: like, I swear. I'm like, I'm the weird dude. That's going to hide out in the back acre of a 40 acre homestead.
Carnivore JT: Like, I'm going to become one of those dudes on like, shooter. Like, I'm going to become the Mark Wahlberg where he lives in the middle of Montana and doesn't have any contact with the outside world. Uh, [00:34:00] Because now it's all of it. Like I'm realizing that literally any recommendation that the government or a government organization, yes, the who is a government organization.
Carnivore JT: I don't care what you say. Any recommendation is based on very sketchy information. Like, or it's a collection of a couple of studies. And then every study that shows the opposite is disregarded. And so then it's like, okay, RDA has come into question, recommended dietary allowances, like how much vitamin C you're supposed to get, how much vitamin D, like, and then you go, okay, that's, they kind of came up with this arbitrary number that said, I think this is going to work for the majority of people who are semi healthy.
Carnivore JT: Let's come up with this number. And now everybody bases that off of like, oh, well, you've got, you've got to get more. Vitamin C. Why? Because you're going to get scurvy. Come on, no like, affluent person gets scurvy. Why? Well, because they eat fruits and vegetables. No, that's not it. Like, scurvy is [00:35:00] based on sailors in the 1800s who had rotting fruit and salt dried processed food.
Carnivore JT: And they found that if they gave them fresh food, they would not die. Have scurvy anymore. And so then people are like, gosh, we have to have vitamin C. Okay. Like it's just on and on and on and on. And, and literally everything. And then people turn it, they're like, Oh, you just got to question everything. And you find a holes with anything.
Carnivore JT: And I'm like, yeah, I do. I don't literally don't trust any study. I don't care if it's a pro carnivore study. There was a study that came out that said all the other studies sucked on red meat. Yeah. That guy had ties to the meat industry. I don't really trust that one either. I don't trust any of them.
Carnivore JT: Other people don't understand. I don't trust any of these studies, but I think we should be smart enough to know that how your body reacts to how you eat is probably a pretty good indication of long term health.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I think it's great. I think that's amazing. You found an article that corresponds with the way you [00:36:00] think, but you still said, no, that's, that's garbage.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm going to look into it. And it was garbage.
Carnivore JT: Yeah, it's. You know, and it's easy to cherry pick studies. It is. You know, especially when there's not a whole lot on your side, but at the end of the day, it's a lot easier just to be like, maybe we should all just realize that all these studies suck. Like the latest one that it might not even make it to the study.
Carnivore JT: It hasn't been peer reviewed yet, but it was presented. It's been in articles. It's headlined everywhere that intermittent fasting leads 91 percent higher chance of heart disease. Where on earth can you draw that? I don't even need to read the study. That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. You're telling me that by going a couple extra hours of not eating, I'm gonna get heart disease and not just a little bit 91%.
Carnivore JT: Like you're telling me that I have the same chance of living by running in traffic as I do intermittent [00:37:00] fasting. Like what? You've got to be kidding me. And granted, most people are like, yeah, there's problems with the study. I'm like, no kidding. Why do you even need to look at it? Are you telling me you legit have to look at this study to tell me that this is ridiculous?
Carnivore JT: I
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: mean, with that, with that logic, no human would have survived to get to us here today, because I'm sure they went a couple of days in between meals when you have to chase down your next meal.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. That's, that's the other one. People it's always the life expectancy too. It again leads me back. Like, I don't, I don't care what your views on or on how we got here.
Carnivore JT: Cause I can play this both ways. You can believe that we were created or you can believe that we evolved, but either way, there's no way we're the only species in the history of this planet that has been doing food wrong for their entire existence. Like, can you imagine if a hundred years from now, a lion all of a sudden was like, guys, we have not been meant to eat gazelles.
Carnivore JT: [00:38:00] We're in trouble. We should be living till we're 50, not 20. And then they start. Eating ground squirrels. It's like, no, like literally no other species of anything is as confused about what we're supposed to eat as we are.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right. And not just what we're to eat, but just as confused as we are, whether it be what's in our pants or in our genome or, um, what the economy is or what we should be shoving into our bodies or a kid's bodies.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You know, I mean, the list goes on and on and on.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What other studies have you found that, that just make you scoff at, at the investigators really, and if you do like you did with the first one, you dive into who the investigators are. You can usually see that they have some sort of, um, bias and it's usually not subtle.
Carnivore JT: Yeah, like, so I just did one [00:39:00] and it's, again, it's this hit it's social media.
Carnivore JT: Like social media is to blame, right? It's a hundred percent social media. What can I make? That's a headline that's grabbing. And gets people's attention because nobody actually looks at anything anyway. Right? We still have people that don't know how to read a new trip, like nutrition facts on the back of a box.
Carnivore JT: Like, they don't understand what it is. And it's the most in plain sight thing ever. Um, like you have little tricks like. They make calories bigger and then make everything else smaller so that you just focus on the calories and you don't worry about anything else that's in it. The ingredients are all smaller listed than, but this influencer was like, drinking diet Coke helps you lose weight better than drinking water.
Carnivore JT: And I was like, you've got shit in me. Of course they don't like to study, but I'm like, okay, let's, let's go, let's go look at it. And so I found it and it was a 52 week [00:40:00] study. And they said that the weight loss was statistically significant. However, it was not clinically significant because in order to be clinically significant, you have to have more than a 1.
Carnivore JT: 5 kilogram. change in body weight between the two groups, which they didn't over the course of an entire year. So I'm like, okay, like, so first of all, we're talking about less than three pound difference between two groups over the course of a year. And then you realize that there was no like dietary information.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. Um, there was no like active, they gave people coaching on how to lower their calories, but there was no control over anything. And the premise of it was two servings of water for one group and two servings of non nutritive sweetened beverages, just Diet Coke for the other group. And they tracked their weight loss.
Carnivore JT: I was like, you gotta be kidding me. Like, and guess [00:41:00] who funded the study? The American beverage association. And one of the conflicts of interest was the international sweetener association. And I was like, how was there? There's an international sweetener association. Like what the, like I've always joked that it's like big sugar and big meat, but no, it's literally like we are the international sweetener association.
Carnivore JT: I was like, you've got to You gotta be joking me right now.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Did you ever see, um, either was it Forks Over Knives or You Are What You Eat?
Carnivore JT: I have never watched either of them because
Carnivore JT: I've thought about doing like a video of me pretending to watch it to piss vegans off, but like vegans. So a little short story on vegans, vegans are how I got going on, on Twitter. Um, Twitter was the first platform that kind of went off for me and I got up, I just railing on vegans nonstop. [00:42:00] And so for a while I was like, you know what?
Carnivore JT: I was like, you know, I'm going to do a video of pretending that I'm going to watch. I think dominion's the most popular one for them. I don't even know. It's about some vegan propaganda. It's like, I'm going to pretend like I'm watching it and then finish the video with me eating a steak while I'm pretending to watch it.
Carnivore JT: Cause let's be honest. I'm not spending longer than two minutes actually. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah.
Carnivore JT: Um, the latest one was not game changers. Um, the twin study, I forget what it's called. Is that what you are? Yeah. So that one, like I saw the study before it came out and they highlighted the couple points like LDL got better for the vegan group, but HDL got better for the other group.
Carnivore JT: Triglycerides got better for the other group. The vegans lost weight, but they also ate fewer [00:43:00] calories. Yeah. They also lost muscle mass and vegans equate that to the fact that I did hear this one while the other set of twins that were doing the omnivores diet, just like to work out more. I was like, you're right.
Carnivore JT: You've got to be kidding me. And then the fact that the vegans ate fewer calories was because they were more satiated eating the vegan diet. Then the omnivores, I'm like, literally nobody's ever been satiated eating plants a day in their life. Like that's a non existent term. And then, and then you went in and you realized that the people that funded it are also the people that funded game changers.
Carnivore JT: And the doctor has been getting paid by beyond meat. And you're like at some point, and they had, they had this documentary already filmed and ready to go. Before the study even came out. Wow. And I'm like, come on, like, you've got to, at some point you [00:44:00] have to look at it and go. Um, maybe something fishy is going on, but now people, if you're a vegan, that's gospel.
Carnivore JT: That's proof that's two identical twins and the vegans did better. And it's just,
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: it's a better study would have been a real head to head study would have been veganism versus carnivorism because I, I watched that unfortunately, and they gave the omnivores like this sausage. And I, A sausage is typically known for having junk in it.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And like, you don't know what oils are in there. You don't know if they packed the omnivores more with seed and not oils and processed oils. Um, turkey, turkey sausage. I mean, like that's, that's not the same as beef.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. And so actually, and here's where it is and here's how, you know, that this is an issue.
Carnivore JT: We've done studies on everything. Like, and so now they're playing the ethical card and I've, at some point I'll do a video to this one, but there is [00:45:00] a, a vegan doctor and they're talking about it. They're like the longterm studies on carnivore, why are there no longterm studies? And the doctor goes, because we've decided that based on everything that we know, it would be unethical to get a group of people and feed them that diet over any length of time.
Carnivore JT: yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, if that is not the biggest cop out, how do you think you guys did studies on smoking or alcohol? Or you'll put anybody in a metabolic ward and pump them full of anything, but you will not do it with me because you know. That if it came back, that meat was even slightly more healthy than vegan, literally the entire world would crumble.
Carnivore JT: Like, can you imagine the backlash from everything from 99 percent of the store, 99 percent of the grocery store? Everybody would go, wait a minute. This is [00:46:00] actually. could be better. Like people would just go absolutely nuts.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I recently got sent this article that says that, um, 12 percent of the United States is consuming. Uh, I want to say it's like 90 percent of the beef in America. And I want to tell you, I'm proud to be part of the 12 percent with you.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. Like what's also funny is people have paired this up. Like even Sean Baker did this.
Carnivore JT: Come on, bro. Like this is a little bit of a stretch. Yeah. Uh, it pairs up nicely to the fact that a. Uh, researcher in Utah came out with a study that said 88 percent of the U. S. population is metabolically sick. And so then people are like, 88 percent are sick, 12 percent eat beef. Hmm. Is there interesting?
Carnivore JT: And then everybody goes, Oh my God, you can't do that. And I'm like, yeah, you guys do that all the time. [00:47:00] So stop.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. You can't do it, but, but it's interesting. Yes. And I've had patients. I had a patient, I had one patient go from. Having insulin to, uh, he required 80 units of insulin to keep his sugars under control.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: He would take 80 units every single day. He started carnivore, and in the first week he went down to 10 units. And recently I've had a patient who was on 30 units of insulin, and, and metformin, and two blood pressure pills. He started on a Sunday, he saw me 5, Days later, and he was, he had his blood pressure under control, not taking his pills.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: His sugar was under control, not taking any insulin nor metformin. He stopped everything in five days just by eating meat. And that like,
Carnivore JT: that's what I'm saying. And everybody goes, it's anecdotal. I'm like, okay, we'll do a study on it. Well, no. Well, why don't you guys do a study? Who's going to fund it? Who, who do you think I work for?
Carnivore JT: Like everybody's like, Oh, [00:48:00] big beef is sending you to big beef. Doesn't need to do any studies. They're doing just fine. Like big beef is also part of the problem. Like they're not the solution. Let's be real here. And so it's like, there's no money. This doesn't benefit anybody except for the U S population.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. If this comes out to be true. And so why, why would anybody fund a study? You don't just get random money from random people. You'd have to like start a go fund me. And then everybody would question the funding because it came from people that want this to succeed. So it's like, yeah, it's it. I I've talked to.
Carnivore JT: So many people who have gotten off medication by eating this way and it's everything it's everything from blood pressure medication to insulin to antidepressants to, you know, thyroid medication to IBS medication to lifelong. You know, Parkinson's medication to just all of this stuff, antibiotics, [00:49:00] the list goes on and on and on and on and on.
Carnivore JT: And the only thing anybody says that's anecdotal, I'm like, okay, cool. If I'm talking to somebody and it works for them and it's only anecdotal, they're going to be pretty happy. They're not going to give a shit if there's document that a hundred thousand people also had success because at the end of the day, it's fitness and life and nutrition is N equals one.
Carnivore JT: That's literally the only thing that matters. And so if it works for everybody, but there's no documented study. don't care.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Have you run across the people that say, well, I know my body and I, I've got to have my vegetables.
Carnivore JT: Oh yeah. Um, and my, and I've talked to a bunch of people in the, the difference is I don't think people actually understand how they feel.
Carnivore JT: Um, there's people like, I'm not bloated and I'm like, it doesn't matter. I'm willing to bet you're wrong. And you just don't know it. Like we just, that's normal. Like Thanksgiving dinner, I'm going to [00:50:00] wear my stretchy pants to Thanksgiving dinner because after I eat, I'm like, no, that's not normal. It does not matter how much food you eat.
Carnivore JT: I can eat a two pound ribeye right now and not be bloated. Like it is not the amount of food that you're eating that should make you bloated. It's what you're eating and nobody, nobody can wrap their head around it. And it's not, it's literally not until you give stuff up and you realize that you were bloated all the time.
Carnivore JT: Like it's, I go back to the bodybuilding days and it's a joke in the fitness community in general. You wake up first thing in the morning, you snap your progress pictures cause that's the leanest you're going to be all day. And the moment you even sniff water. You add five pounds and then all of a sudden you walk around like a balloon the rest of the day, hoping that you wake up the next morning feeling lean.
Carnivore JT: And so it's just, people don't understand. They don't understand that. Like I was a college athlete. I'm missing the majority of the meniscus in both my knees. [00:51:00] Um, I've been rolling out of bed since I was eight. 19 years old feeling like I got hit by a train. I played weekend double headers and roll out Monday morning and be like, gosh, like I literally feel like I got hit by a bus.
Carnivore JT: And then you roll into the training, you know, room and then you get your treatment and then you roll out and you hope that you don't hurt too bad for the next day. And I, I don't have issues anymore. Like I don't have problems with my knees. I don't have the old, like, Oh man, I got to like bend over or, you know, I have chronic shoulder problems.
Carnivore JT: I've had four surgeries. Before I got out of college and. You know, most of them are probably would indicate that I'm going to have, uh, arthritic shoulders and arthritic knees and, you know, all kinds of these issues. And I still may, like, I'm not saying I'm cured or anything, but I don't feel old. Like I don't, I feel better than when I rolled out of bed when I was 25 years old, like everything hurt when I was 25 people [00:52:00] would be like, Oh, I feel like I'm getting old.
Carnivore JT: Be like, I felt like I'm getting old since. I was 15 years old. Like this is not new for me. And now I don't, I don't have chronic inflammation. Like you shouldn't have chronic inflammation. You should be able to live normal. And if something catches up to you, it catches up to you, but we shouldn't have this every day.
Carnivore JT: I'm tired every day. I need caffeine all day long. I need, You know, a nap after I eat, I'm dragging, I get home and have no motivation. And it's just, just try the diet. Like everybody thinks we're selling something. I don't sell coaching. I don't sell anything. I sell apparel because I think it's funny. Like I have a cookbook.
Carnivore JT: If you want to, you know, spice it up a little bit, literally and figuratively, but I don't, I don't need to sell the diet. I just want people to try it like that. That's my pitch. Like try it for 30 days, cut out processed foods, cut out vegetables. If you want to eat some fruit, eat some [00:53:00] fruit, just try it for 30 days.
Carnivore JT: Like literally what is the worst that could possibly happen? Like maybe you have the keto flu for a week and you get constipated and you're like, this is dumb and I never do it again. Or you can be like the thousands and thousands of people that go, I felt really good, really good. And I'm like, Hmm, maybe that tells you something.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I had a patient once who was, he, he's, he's overweight. He's got a lot of weight to lose, but he started carnivore and he's been doing good at it. And he went to his family's, family's house, they made him some eggs in margarine. But he didn't want to be rude. So he didn't say anything. And within three bites, his knee pain, his ex Extreme knee pain came back and he's like, I will never do that again.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I will never be eating something just to be kind. I will say, I'm sorry, I can't do that.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. Like people, people look at you weird, [00:54:00] right? When you do that. And I'm like, okay, when you understand how good actually feels, any slight variation changes it. Like I don't get headaches anymore. I had chronic headaches for a long time that I could manage.
Carnivore JT: Like they weren't bad. Like took some, you know, three or four days a week, I had to pop some Tylenol or something to get rid of. I, you know, got to the chiropractor, get my neck worked on, but chronic headaches. And then I don't have them. When I get a headache now, I immediately go, my electrolytes got to be off like I got to be off on one of my, on some of my electrolytes.
Carnivore JT: I'm going to go make some electrolytes and some water, chug it. And most of the time I will feel better. And that doesn't happen very often because I know that as long as I keep my electrolytes in check, I don't have headaches and people will be like, Well, that's like, come on, like, you can't be that sensitive.
Carnivore JT: Like it's not a sensitivity issue. It's you realize that these are the things that are causing it. And you've just lived with [00:55:00] it so chronically that that's just normal for you now. And you think I'm the weird one. You, you get up like this every day and you're like, Oh man, I gotta sit. No, that's the weird part.
Carnivore JT: And so yeah, when there's foods or stuff that triggers some of those to come back, you instantly recognize it. I can go out to eat right now, eat a steak and probably within five minutes, tell you if it was cooked in something. of the seed oil variety. And it's not because I'm, I'm hypersensitive and I'm like, Oh man, I can't.
Carnivore JT: It's because I can recognize how I feel the difference between something cooked in animal fat and something cooked in a seed oil.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's almost like the alcoholic who's gone the past 10 years waking up and having a hangover and thinking that's normal. And then they finally get through the withdrawals and they stop drinking and they're like, wow, it's, it's a whole new life.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's, it's like, I can feel my body. It's, I feel good. I've never felt good before. And didn't know that I didn't feel [00:56:00] good.
Carnivore JT: Yeah. And then that same person doesn't drink alcohol for 10 years, has one drink and gets a hangover the next day. Like nobody's going to go, Oh man, you're just being overly sensitive.
Carnivore JT: Everybody's going to go. Oh, that makes sense. You've been so long without it. You're so like, this is so foreign to your body now, your body has this overreaction to it. Like it's literally the same thing. I know people that can get a hangover from one drink. So they don't drink. So, but that's okay.
Carnivore JT: Everybody says, Oh yeah, I get it. That makes sense. But if I tell you that I get inflammation from eating these foods, you go, Oh, come on, like really, you're going to live your life. Never eating carbs again. Like how many carbs whenever I want, like I will live, I'll go eat a chocolate cake right now if I want to, but I'm not going to feel good.
Carnivore JT: So why would I do that? And I will at some point in the next, however long I will probably eat an entire chocolate cake in one sitting and I'll go eat a [00:57:00] lot. I don't know if that was worth it. And then I won't do that for a long time because I'll remember how I felt.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's a big price. You'll have to pay for this.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Jason, this is great. Thank you so much. I appreciate you sharing your time with me and with my audience.
Carnivore JT: Yeah, absolutely. This is, this is great. I love doing these. Um, I get, I have a tendency to get locked into my own. Like people call it an echo chamber, like that's a bad thing. And I just assume everybody knows that you should eat meat.
Carnivore JT: And then I realized that there's a whole lot of people out there that still think you should eat lean meats and stay away from fats. And I'm like, man, so yeah, any, any time I can get on and talk with it and maybe one person will hear this and go, man, maybe I should give that a try. Sounds pretty good. It sounds too good to be true.
Carnivore JT: It might be, I don't know. That's what I tell [00:58:00] people. The last thing to end this on, it honestly doesn't matter what the long term effects are for me. And people want to go, what? Like, I, I recently, this is, it's been a few months. Um, someone I wasn't close, very close with my, one of my grandfathers, um, passed away and it was something that, you know, That took like 10 years, right?
Carnivore JT: Like it very slowly deteriorated nursing home was in bad shape for, for quite a while. And I realized that we're really good at keeping people alive. That's literally like you don't die from your first heart attack anymore. It's pretty uncommon for you to die from your first heart attack because we can keep people alive, but we don't keep people healthy.
Carnivore JT: Like, and so if you were to tell me right now that eating the way I'm going to do is going to shave 10 years off my life and I'm going to die at 70 instead of 80. But up until 70, I am going to feel great. [00:59:00] I would take this. And that might sound morbid or whatever, but I absolutely do not want to be 70 years old and completely dependent on other people because I can't stand upright.
Carnivore JT: It's so deep. It sounds terrible, but I feel great until I stop feeling great. I'm going to keep eating this way. And you know what? If I go out a few years earlier, And I don't live a miserable existence for a few extra years. That's totally fine with me.
Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Where can we find you? Where can we get your merchandise, your book and your shirts?
Carnivore JT: Uh, so I have a website, theinnercarnivore. com. It's also the name of my podcast. Uh, you can find me on pretty much every social media platform at carnivoreJT. Uh, Twitter's the only one it's at carnivore underscore JT, but
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