59. Commanders Call Part I, Dave Hamski

This is Part I in a four part series. This series all about highlighting true leaders. These four leaders that I interviewed are the example of what a leader truly is. There are two types of leaders in the military: Assigned and emergent. Through sacrificing their assigned leadership position they have now become emergent leaders. History will look back with awe on these leaders that refused to go off the cliff with the rest of society. All of these four leaders have at least one thing in common, they have built the foundation of their life upon the solid Rock of Jesus.
Today I talk with Former CPT Dave Hamski (AIRBORNE!). Dave was an Airborne Company Commander at Fort Richardson, AK. He refused to give the order for his soldiers to take the COVID-19 gene therapy. He also refused to take the gene therapy.

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Next week please join me as I talk to Former LTC Bradly Miller who was a Battalion Commander at Fort Campbell (Rakkasan). He was one of only two Battalion Commanders that where relived of duty for refusing to get the gene therapy and refusing to order others to take the gene therapy shot.

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59. Commanders Call Part I, Dave Hamski
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Nurse Kelly: [00:00:00] Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff, where he can share ideas and thoughts with you. He gets to the heart of the issue so that you can find the truth. The views and opinions expressed are his and do not represent the US Army, d o d, nor the US government. Dr. Sigoloff was either off duty or unapproved leave, and Dr.

Nurse Kelly: Sigoloff was not in uniform at the time of recording. Now to Dr. Sigoloff.

Sam Sigoloff: thank you for joining me again, we have our Patreon supporters that I wanna give a quick shout out to. We have the pandemic reprimand. Level tier, which is $17 and 76 cents a month that they give, and that those contributors are Sam and Angela Schulke.

Sam Sigoloff: We have Perry, we have the self-made $10 level with Kevin and Katie, and we have the refined, not burned level tier at $5 a month with Joe and pj. I wanna thank them very much for all of the, the support they've given. [00:01:00] This has been a a difficult fight. We've, you know, my family has put in well over $60,000 of, for legal fees, and we do truly appreciate anything that, that can help.

Sam Sigoloff: And also wanna say that if you look behind me, you can see this patch I will have as soon as I can get my store up and running, I'll have that patch available for purchase. It, it's a good way to support me also with these legal fees because again, we've, we've sent quite a bit of money on it. But it's also a way you can show your friends where you are, what you think, and, and you can join this reprimanded ranks.

Sam Sigoloff: You know, they, they ordered us to be reprimanded. However, we've made it into the order of the reprimand. We've taken what they've meant for evil, and we've turned it into something good. All right. Enough about that. Today we have Dave Hams. Now I kind of stumbled across Dave on LinkedIn. Go check him out.

Sam Sigoloff: He's got a business that he's running. It's kind of an outdoorsy thing. You might enjoy it. It's a summer thing. You know, if, if you can spend some time with him. But let's learn [00:02:00] about his story today. So, so Dave, you, well, first tell me why you're, why you wanna share your experience publicly.

Dave Hamski: Hey Sam.

Dave Hamski: Thanks for having me on. Just wanna start off by saying Happy Veterans Day. And you know, my purpose for, for being on sharing my story, what my goal is, is to. Connect with all service members at current and past that have been deeply affected by a stable military right now. Especially with the, the mandate and then it goes for both those who are vaccinated and unvaccinated.

Dave Hamski: And you know, specifically for company level leaders and field grade level leaders I hope that I can create some, some thought-provoking discussion amongst them and you know, I'm not even gonna bother, bother with the GOs. They're too far gone at this part at this point. But you know, I do think there's still hope for company level leaders and field grade level leaders to right, the [00:03:00] wrongs that have occurred and I'm just hoping to generate and encourage them.

Sam Sigoloff: And one thing that, that I wanna make abundantly clear is, cuz you, you kind of touched on this, but there's the jab and there's the un jabbed. Mm-hmm. . And, and I don't like those divisions. You know, I, I feel, I feel bad for people that took the jab feeling that they, you know, being coerced, many of them being coerced and many of those, you know, and those that wanted to get it, many of them lied to.

Sam Sigoloff: So I certainly don't want this to be a us against them, cuz it's not, that's not, this is at all,

Dave Hamski: I mean, we all wear the same uniform, you know? And, and that's what it's about is, hey, we all wear the same uniform. We have the same mission. But, but right now there is a distinction that's been made unfairly.

Dave Hamski: And you know, hey, if we're gonna get the mission done we, we need to, we need to correct some things and not look at ourselves as those who have and those who have not totally agree with you.

Sam Sigoloff: and there's [00:04:00] this idea in the military, you know, you're not, you're not, you know, Asian or American or Hispanic or black or white or this or that, or green.

Sam Sigoloff: We're all green. Exactly. You know, I had a special forces patient who was in the Special forces in in VE Vietnam. And he was in there before, you know, like the early, like the, I think it was the late sixties, and he was African American and everyone is green to them. That's, that's how he like, it shocked him when he had a, a combatant say, how can you fight for these people when you can't sit at, at a dinner table with everyone you're standing here with?

Sam Sigoloff: And he is like, what are you talking? I mean this, you know, cuz he spoke Polish, this African American man spoke Polish cuz he grew up in a Polish neighborhood. It's like colors not a thing and we, it's we're all green. Well, same thing with this shot. It's not v un vax, it's, we're all green fighting the same mission.

Sam Sigoloff: And, and the leadership has come down and said, no, [00:05:00] your different split up. No, your different split up causing division. And many of us have bought into that, that garbage that we are different, unfortunately.

Dave Hamski: Exactly. And, and we just need to, I, I think things like this right now addressing that, that, that helps end.

Dave Hamski: And that distinction that's been made and, and I mean it shouldn't be our responsibility, but unfortunately we're the ones who are taking it on to and, and like actively taking it on right now. So I gotta build the momentum and keep that

Sam Sigoloff: going.

Sam Sigoloff: I think you

Sam Sigoloff: have a dog next to you that's not

Dave Hamski: Yeah, I'm sorry that they just woke up.

Dave Hamski: It's . I think they were saying hello earlier when you're doing a call out to shout out to to everybody. So,

Sam Sigoloff: so you know what that noise is, isn't that? Yeah. Yeah. . We're are we? Okay. So, so yeah. So, and one of the most important things is why are you here? Tell me what your job was, what you did and what put you in this position now that you get to have a nice, long beer and you get to work for [00:06:00] yourself

Dave Hamski: Exactly. Yeah. So I was a company commander stationed at joint based Al Manor in Alaska. I commanded in the it's now two 11 and I was in third Battalion, five oh ninth Infantry. The the G Men , so. I served as a coming commander for a line infantry airborne company baker company specifically.

Dave Hamski: And then after that command, I was selected the command again for headquarters and headquarters company of the 35 0 9. And that's where I was relieved of command for refusing to support the vaccine mandate

Sam Sigoloff: and for the listener. Like they don't just pick anybody to be a commander. It's one of the most challenging jobs that you can have as a company commander because you're, you're fairly young typically.

Sam Sigoloff: You know, you're, it's lieutenant, lieutenant, captain, second, first lieutenant, and then captain. So you, I mean, you've been in, you've had three promotions [00:07:00] mm-hmm. , but the people who become company commanders, they're the ones who are, who rise above their peers as leaders. So, so what happened next? You were relieved and, and kind of go into that a bit.

Dave Hamski: Yeah. So just a little timeline for you. You know, about March, 2021 it's, you know, pretty clear that, hey, the the vaccine's gonna roll out already, well, actually had already rolled out. And and people were lining up to to, to receive it. And ra there's talks that, okay, hey, this is gonna be mandated for the military.

Dave Hamski: And I immediately just felt that it, it was not right. I was, I had immediate concerns, you know, I thought, man, this is like really, really rushed. I, I even had, you know, a former colleague who was on operational war speed. I, I talked. To him about it and [00:08:00] everything was, oh, hey, like, you know, we were able to cut through red tape that normally happens for with, with other vaccines production.

Dave Hamski: But this is safe and effective, you know, the same line over and over again. And I, you know, started developing my, my own analysis in my head going, okay, hey, you know, this is, this is gonna be very big. It's gonna, you know, it's gonna get, gonna be mandated for the entire force. Like I, this just does not seem right, this does not seem, this does not sit well with me.

Dave Hamski: And so, you know, going on through the months I end up then taking command of hhc in April, and this is after having had C I, I got c and. You know, I, I recovered thankfully. And from there, the there was this, you know, steady push, okay, hey, you know, go, it's available, go get now.

Dave Hamski: You know, summer comes and I still haven't gotten it. [00:09:00] And I think that there, that's when talks started to occur, you know, about like, oh hey, like, you know, the vaccines here, you know you know, leaders lead out in front you, you go and get the, the vaccine first and then others will follow. You know, like, we need to, to show our shoulders, we'll do what, what they should do.

Dave Hamski: And I wasn't having any of that. I was like, okay, hey, no, this is not, this is not ethical. And, and then, you know, we started getting closer to the mandate date and. It's very, very obvious now that people, that there's a small co cohort of officers and leaders who have not gotten the vaccine yet. And so I'm getting talked to just off the side, you know, at like breakfast or anything like, Hey, Kim Haki, like, you know what are your thoughts on the vaccine and everything?

Dave Hamski: I just tell people straight up like, I'm not getting it. I'm like, this is [00:10:00] unethical. This is an experiment and this is, this is not gonna work out right. And I said, there's no,

Sam Sigoloff: I love that boldness just straight from the start, just so I'm not getting it. I just mm-hmm. , I love it.

Dave Hamski: And, and you know, I had discussions with my wife about it too, where you know, I was like, I just don't feel this is right.

Dave Hamski: I don't I don't think this healthy. And, and she said, You know, Hey, this is your decision. And, and I just love that respect, you know, like, and I think that's the respect that everyone should have had from the very beginning. Hey, this is your decision, your, your health decision. You can, you know, if you want to get the vaccine you, you can go ahead and get it.

Dave Hamski: You know, personally, I, I recommend against it , , you know, for these various reasons. And my, my wife has a health background, so she's like, Hey, listen, like these are some, some concerning things about it. And you know, but I'm not going, I'm not the one to make that decision. I'm the one here to, you know, support you.

Dave Hamski: And so I just tell her, I [00:11:00] was like, I'm, I'm not gonna get this. There's just two, I mean, what about fertility risks? What about, you know, us wanting to start a family? Like what all the things we don't know right now? You know? So that's, that's the stance I took. And then, you know, we'll see here , the mandate comes and it's like that weeker two week period or so after the mandate came out where they're like, okay, hey, like y'all have, you have this amount of time to get it.

Dave Hamski: We had a brigade run, you know, oh, don't you love brigade runs? You know, it's .

Sam Sigoloff: I luckily don't have to

Sam Sigoloff: do many of those in a doctor. Yeah,

Dave Hamski: exactly. So at the very end, our brigade commander called all the company commanders and first sergeants in into a circle. And very, very sternly said to all of us, like, you all will get vaccinated or I will relieve you of command or responsibility, whatever it may [00:12:00] be.

Dave Hamski: You will receive a relief for cause oer. You can get either court marshaled or dishonorably discharged. And he's like, we're not messing around with this. Just get it. When was this like, on or about time? This was on or about the August? It had August 20. August 20? Yes. August 21. Wow. Yeah. So August or early September

Dave Hamski: 21.

Sam Sigoloff: I was in Alaska until probably like July of 21 and I think it was like in March. Okay. I had a, a, my, my boss and doctor said, SIG off. Quit. Quit telling patients not to get the shot. But sir, I've never told anyone not to get the shot. That's a foolish thing to say. I give them the truth as best I can and he said, but you knows off.

Sam Sigoloff: You can tell him. Exactly. Get the shot. I would never tell anybody. Get a new experimental form of treatment. That's not even a, a [00:13:00] vaccine. It's a gene therapy that has ingredients in it that are not. For human use, but, okay, sorry. Yep. Yeah. So it's this culture. Exactly. And, and I, as, as a doctor, I've seen many command sergeant majors who is like the enlisted right underneath the commander and many commanders who use that same phrase, well, it's not mandated yet.

Sam Sigoloff: And so they, they have this culture that's been going on for months and months and months that, well, you better get it cuz you need, you'll need to get it. And you don't wanna wait in line and you know, not be able to go on leave because you didn't get it cuz there's nothing left when it's required. It's like good that, that is coercion at its worst.

Dave Hamski: Yep. And, and I remember standing there and being like, okay, like if there's anything that tells me this is like, if I wasn't right to begin with, I'm like, okay, this is, you know, the bells and whistles right here. You know, I have a senior leader who's he was pissed off. I mean that there's no other way to like Yeah, exactly.

Dave Hamski: And. , [00:14:00] you know, I just remember and I like the guy too, you know and I just remember being like, okay, this is not right. Like this is this right here shows like morally, there's, there's something inept about it. So I decide right then, then and there I was like, okay, I'm definitely not I'm not wavering on this at all.

Dave Hamski: This is, I, I trusted my gut. I know that my gut is right on this, so let's , let's go. And that was a really difficult day because that's like the day right then and there where I knew like my career's over. So like even before everything that happened afterwards that, that I'll get into, I just remember being like, Ugh, like this is gonna be really painful.

Sam Sigoloff: There, there's something that, that you had, I think inside you and I, I don't, this may describe this wrong, but this is kind of the feeling that I get. So I, I read this book a while back called Rich Dad Poor Dad. I encourage everyone to read. It's very, very informative. And he's a ex-marine, you know, what's Marine?

Sam Sigoloff: Always Marine. And it's all about investment. [00:15:00] And he has this one opportunity where he's employed and they said, oh, I'm gonna pay you a dollar a week. And he's like, that's, that's way too little. And the guy's like, okay, well what would you rather have? Would you rather have $2 a week or I'll give you $50 a week?

Sam Sigoloff: And he's like, whoa, wait a second. The price is not right for the job. Meaning why would you, why would you offer me so much? Because that's not right. It doesn't, you're offering way more. You're trying to coerce me to do something that maybe I don't want to do, I don't wanna sign up for. And that's the same thing with this.

Sam Sigoloff: It's the price is not right. And that's, I think that may have been what you were feeling deep down is the price isn't right. Why are they trying, what is the driving force to get me to take this, even when it's not mandated yet, when it's experimental, when it's gene therapy, there's so much we don't know.

Sam Sigoloff: and I, I think a lot of people have been motivated by like, they don't know why, but they just, the price isn't right. They're, they're trying to give me too much.

Dave Hamski: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I couldn't agree, agree [00:16:00] more with you on that because you know, of course anyone who's refused has heard the the counter-argument, you know, well, you got all the other ones.

Dave Hamski: Why are you making a big deal? Big deal about this And, and that's, that comes back to what you're talking about with the prices right there. I even said to my commanders, like, you know, I would strongly consider this if they actually finish the phase four trials on it, you know, but hey, that takes about eight years total to, to be done.

Dave Hamski: And I was like, can you, and, and this was one of my arguments that, well, like one of my points that I would share with anyone who like had to counsel me about not taking the jab is I. Do you know of anyone who's had, who's conceived and had a healthy child yet? After both or just one of the parents getting, getting vaccinated, and that was always just waved off.

Dave Hamski: Like, and I was like, Hey, this is where I'm at in my stage of life, and I'm not gonna let [00:17:00] anyone anyone interfere with that. And it, it was, you know, waved off as like, okay, like, well, we understand, we're like, we're respecting that, but like, you know, like it's safe and effective. Like it's not gonna it.

Dave Hamski: And I'm like, you don't know that. I'm like, you can't tell me right now and think about it. Think about the cohort that we have here in the military. Generally all these people have their lives, their entire lives ahead of them. And, you know, Y we can't tell them definitively, Hey, this is gonna mess up.

Dave Hamski: This will either save you or it won't mess up the rest of your life. You know, like that. I, I was just so like, how do you all not see the ethical dilemma here? So, you know, moving on from that you know, we had to do counseling. So, you know, finally, I think it was like a week or two later you know, the [00:18:00] date passes where it's like, okay, hey, you're going to be behind now.

Dave Hamski: Like, you won't be vaccinated in time because you didn't take the first shot. So like we all got sat down and it was, this was like the second point at which I knew, okay, hey this is not. a ethical or morally sound order. And this whole entire mandate is, is wrong, is my commander cannot give the order in a strong, confident way.

Dave Hamski: So there is lots of, you know, swallowing and like, like talking as if the, he's reading off of a paper and he's just not doing it confidently. He's like, I am ordering you all to take the Covid 19 vaccine COVID 19 vaccine prevents the covid 19 disease. And, and, and he just like would stop and be like [00:19:00] and it was just awkward and it was, I'll never forget because, you know, I've received many orders in my life and.

Dave Hamski: And this one stood out as the, the weakest order I've ever been given. And, and I've been given orders in environments where things were super stressful or super uncertain, but still it was like, okay, hey, I don't know if we should do this, but we have to do something and this is our best bet right now.

Dave Hamski: And being airborne, this order was just so

Sam Sigoloff: weekly being airborne when you're in the plane and you don't jump when you're supposed to jump. I mean, that, that's an order to jump. And, and if you, they'll make you like, at least in the school, because I've done my, I've done my five jumps. I, I know . Yeah, do another one.

Sam Sigoloff: Hopefully airborne. But they have you sit on your hands because they don't want you messing with your stuff and, and making a problem when there maybe wasn't. But if you don't like to disobey that order, you must prove that there was a reason why you didn't obey it when you get on the ground. And if [00:20:00] there's something wrong with your equipment, good on you.

Sam Sigoloff: If not, well bad on you cuz you just disobey an order. To jump out of a plane like that, that's how orders are given. That's the magnitude of orders you can get in trouble. And here he is kind of mey mouth given this order. It's like, that's typically, it's jump outta the plane, go take the hill, you know, go do pt.

Dave Hamski: Exactly. And so that, that's what leads me to this next point. You know, I wrote, I wrote this down because I wanted to make sure I, I said it correctly. But when a commander's giving an order, it's not just a justification enough to say that order is obedient to the orders from those above, above him.

Dave Hamski: So you know who, whether it be a policy maker or a senior military official you know that it's obedient to what they're saying to do when giving that order. The commander. Must also take responsibility for that order. So [00:21:00] what I think was happening with, with some of these commanders is they were unsure of that responsibility part.

Dave Hamski: They know, okay, hey, I've been told I'm just following orders, I'm being obedient to the chain of command. But I think that deep down inside most of these commanders had some sort of confliction with the responsibility of it. Does that make sense?

Sam Sigoloff: It sure does. Cause it just didn't seem right, so nothing is right about it and it's not right.

Dave Hamski: Yeah. And, and that's where, you know, I think people. , they rely too much on the, oh, it's a legal order. Like, I can't tell you how many times I heard that it's a legal order. It's a legal order. Okay. Just because a, a, an order can be legal, but not morally or ethically based, you know, not morally or ethically sound at [00:22:00] all.

Dave Hamski: And so, you know, you and I as officers, all all officers, we have a obligation to refuse and dissent any orders that are not morally, ethically, or legally sound. And so, you know, that's what I really encourage, you know, leaders right now you know, especially our company grade and field grade officers is, this is not over with, with the way that technology is being pushed and especially biotechnology.

Dave Hamski: unfortunately, we're gonna run into this issue again, unless something drastically changes, and maybe we're the beginning of the change here, but they need to be aware that the orders that they're giving have to meet those three criteria. They have to be, and, and it, I'd argue in this order, you know, morally, ethically, and then [00:23:00] lawfully sound, they had to meet all those criteria.

Dave Hamski: And it is very possible today to have orders that are legal but not morally or ethically sound. And so in a different, and as an officer, you gotta refuse

Sam Sigoloff: it. The difference there, the illegal and the lawful are different. And a lot of times that's not well understood. But for something to be legally to, to be legal means that someone wrote down somewhere and some people voted on it and they made it a law.

Sam Sigoloff: Now for something to be lawful, that means that mm-hmm. , you are not infringing on someone's God-given rights. So what that means, like a good example of this would be, it might be legal to own slaves. Cuz you could have a lot of have that like we had in our country at one point, but it's certainly not lawful.

Sam Sigoloff: Mm-hmm. , everyone agrees that that is, that's a terrible thing to have. And, and we know that because it's, it's written on our hearts that that is wrong. And so that's the difference between legality [00:24:00] or something being legally correct and lawfully correct.

Dave Hamski: Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah. You hit the nail on the head there with that.

Sam Sigoloff: Okay. And we had some more, I had some other questions that I wanted to ask you. We talked about how you were, did we talk about how you were treated different for refusing? We've kind of tangentially hit that.

Dave Hamski: Yes. So you know, when I was doing my counseling specifically with the, the brigade command team and brigade jag and all that, one of the points that came up or like there's just accusations that, you know, others who refused, didn't receive.

Dave Hamski: And so the main accusation now's put against me was I was holding up the the vaccine the vaccination of the force, and that [00:25:00] because I was refusing, there were others, there were a lot of others below me that were refusing. And while, I mean, I hope this is true the, the timing of it was. , you know, all those who had waited long enough and then got the first jab weren't considered fully vaccinated.

Dave Hamski: So they just said, oh, this company has like, you know, 60 or some holdouts. That's all because of Captain Hams. And so, you know, that that accusation that I was, you know, like a little rebellion was, was ridiculous. I was like, I'm like, Hey, look, you know a as soon as they relieved me and, and I left the next day or so, there was the second round of [00:26:00] jabs for, for the company.

Dave Hamski: And so, you know, when I got. counseled again after that, it was, they said, Hey, look, as soon as we relieved you from command, you know, the the numbers of vaccinated in your company drastically increased. And I was like, of course it did, because you know, the other people who got the second, the other people who need the second jab got it.

Dave Hamski: You know, like of course, you know, of course that big sense and saw you get relieved that the numbers was, yeah. And, and so, and, and the other thing was is the, those who, I don't know of many who were relieved or not, I don't know of any of the other commanders. I apparently there's like five or six of us out there.

Dave Hamski: But I don't know if anyone else in a, in a position who [00:27:00] refused it, if. They were they, they were immediately separated from the formation and kind of like ushered away without addressing the formation about what's going on. So for me the day that I refused a second time, honestly, because the first time they gave me the order, they didn't say the wording right.

Dave Hamski: And then had the paper, the legal papers correctly worded, did the same. So technically we had to refuse. Didn't say to me, it was like, come back in. Exactly. And I was like, gosh, this just here, right. Shows, right here shows that it's it, it's just all a mess and not, right. Well, as soon as I refused the, the second time and they said, okay, you you need to meet with the brigade commander.

Dave Hamski: So I went out to Bri Brigade commander. They already had the paperwork set up, and they said, Hey, you're hereby relieved from command by the commanding General of US Forces Army, [00:28:00] Alaska, which I thought was interesting. You know, that a general was, was relieving me instead of like my brigade commander who's like, you know, actually in charge of me.

Dave Hamski: So they said, you need to go back to your office and, and clear your office out and and you are not allowed to be in your office without being escorted in there by the battalion commander. And and you're not allowed to address your formation. So it just went from like, oh, you know, Hey, hey Dave.

Dave Hamski: Hey Captain Hans. Like, you know, like, we respect your, your wishes for your own health and everything to immediately like. Okay. You're not part of this team. You you are a threat like, like a prisoner. And I don't know if that was their, you were isolated, like, and so Exactly. So I think that was one, one of the most painful parts of it was I was not able to address my formation of paratroopers and say, [00:29:00] Hey guys, this is what, what's happened.

Dave Hamski: I'm sure you've heard through the private news network , but I want, I was never for the opportunity to just tell them like, Hey, thank you. I really appreciate, I appreciate and I love every single one of y'all. And this is what's going on right now. Please continue to focus on the mission, focus on your job, do it well.

Dave Hamski: And you know, just thank you. Okay. And I'll continue serving you because that's, that's where my heart's at. It was. I, I was never afforded that opportunity, which, you know, I will give credit to my battan commander. He did later come out and tell the battalion or my company, he's specifically just hhc, Hey, this's going on.

Dave Hamski: He's gonna be up at brigade if you see him around, say hi. And, and that's that. And I was like, you know, this is, I don't think that happened to anyone else. So that was a special kind of isolation, I guess you [00:30:00] could say, or, or segregation that I, I would like to know if any other commanders, you know, went through, if that happened to 'em as well,

Sam Sigoloff: and. But did you submit any sort of like let's say religious accommodations or medical exemptions to try to fight it in that, that sense?

Dave Hamski: So that's, that's a really good question. So no a as a commander, I did not. And my reasoning behind that was I, I chose be it general refusal because overarching everything I just said, this is just wrong. This is unethical. And and, and that's, that's just what it is for me. And you know, I'm Jesus Christ is my savior.

Dave Hamski: So, you know, as a Christian, I thought, Hey, submit a religious accommodation request. But [00:31:00] as a commander, I thought, what if my religious accommodation request gets accepted, but one of my soldiers doesn't? You know? And then I, I do have some, some health issues that that some doctors say, Hey, yeah, you it's a heart block.

Dave Hamski: And so some doctors say, Hey, you shouldn't you shouldn't get the vaccine because of your heart block

Sam Sigoloff: as a physician. I think you should not get it because it has products in it that we don't know. The full safety protocol of the profile of them, the, the toxicology reports are classified and it says clearly on the safety data sheet that these are not for human use.

Sam Sigoloff: And one of 'em says, not for veterinary use.

Dave Hamski: Yeah. And, and so I, you know, I went to a civilian doctor who said the same things on the same page. He's like, he's like, first off, like, you know, you're healthy. You're, you're [00:32:00] a young, healthy, 31 year old guy. Like, there's no reason for you to get this. Like you already had covid you, you know, have natural immunity to it.

Dave Hamski: You'll probably get again, because like it's gonna, you know, morph and everything, but you're gonna be fine. And then also you said like, Hey, you know, you like, you have one of these like category one, like heart blocks which, you know, a lot of athletes have, have them. It's just like a little, you know, I'm explained to a doctor explain to just little electrical discharge.

Dave Hamski: But he's like, I eat, you know, even if you weren't healthy, I'd just say like, Hey, there's just no reason to risk this right now. And so, . You know, I, I thought, okay, what if, you know, my religious accommodation request or my medical exemption request gets approved, but none of my paratroopers does soly because, you know, I'm in a position a leadership position or something like that.

Dave Hamski: I just [00:33:00] thought, I don't see how there's going to actually be any, any fair determination for, for any, any request. And, you know, then it all came back to that. I just still at the very base of it, like, this is unethical and this is gonna tear the, the force apart. We, we shouldn't, we shouldn't do it.

Sam Sigoloff: So if I could interject for a second,

Sam Sigoloff: And this is gonna be hard to hear cuz it's, it's, it will convict many people who are listening to this who got the shot.

Sam Sigoloff: And I, and I don't mean for it to be that way. So please don't as best you can, but, but use this as a way to, to look at yourself if you, cuz there is, you have a right to your own body. Right? And if you, if you, in fear of losing your job, give up your, your God-given your constitutional given rights on your own body, how can you, how can anyone expect you to protect anyone else's constitutional rights?[00:34:00]

Dave Hamski: Mm-hmm. . Exactly. And, and I mean, that, that was the other thing, you know, in the position as a commander with, with, you know these, these requests, I almost felt like it, and I'm not take, take anything out against religious or medical requests, but I thought that it would obscure. The fact of the matter, which is it's wrong.

Dave Hamski: You know, it's, it's an experiment. It's gene therapy. Like, and, and we were basically letting them get, get away with it. By not just outright saying no, I was like, you should not have an excuse just because of what you believe. You should not have an excuse, you know, for for like, oh, I have this medical [00:35:00] condition.

Dave Hamski: It should just flat out be no, because this is, you have that got given right

Sam Sigoloff: to say no. Or so, you know, God's law or nature's law, it's, you have that bestowed upon you, not because you're a citizen, but because you're a human. And all those rights are protected by the Constitution and Exactly. The Bill of Rights.

Dave Hamski: Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, I decided to be a general refusal. After I was relieved of command, I went in just for the heck of it to my physician's assistant with my doctor's notes saying that I should not get the vaccine. I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go in there anyways, and I just wanna hear what they're gonna say.

Dave Hamski: So I signed up I called my my provider went into the, the troop medical clinic, had my appointment. I was like, Hey, so my career's already pretty much canned now. But I really wanna [00:36:00] know, like, here's my medical my medical history, should I get the vaccine? You know, I, I really don't want to, like, am I someone who could get a a medical exemption?

Dave Hamski: And he looked at me and said, no, . And he's like, it's safe and effective. Hey, listen, you know, I just had, you know, a 33 year old die from this. Wow. He too long ago. And, you know, of the shot or of the disease. Yeah.

Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And it, and he differentiated. Was it the disease after he had the shot?

Dave Hamski: No, he said he did, he said that this was an unvaccinated 33 year old that, that that died from, cause they

Sam Sigoloff: can also say you're unvaccinated if you're not two weeks past the second dose. Okay. So, I mean, there's, okay.

Dave Hamski: We don't know. So he didn't, he didn't differentiate between that, but he just, you know, said like, Hey, listen, [00:37:00] like there's.

Dave Hamski: there's no real viable medical explanation to go against not getting vaccinated. It's safe and effective. Get it. And, you know, I was just like, okay, well, whatever. Like, I wasted your time then . So so I, I, I did not pursue any exemptions. It was more so just for being like, okay, I wanna see what they say because, you know, I went and saw a, a civilian doctor who is telling me like, no man.

Dave Hamski: Like there's no reason for get this. You should not. And I've got the paperwork for it. Let me see what the Army doc says to me about it. That's,

Sam Sigoloff: that's wild. Okay. There's something that you had mentioned to me before that I thought was a very interesting idea and it's the, the Baba syndrome. 2.0. Can you, can you share that idea?

Sam Sigoloff: I think it's, it's hitting the nail right on the head.

Dave Hamski: [00:38:00] Yes. Okay. So for, for those who aren't familiar with the story of Shiba, there was King David and he's he, he's ruling over his land. He's out on top of one of his towers there, and he looks out and he sees this beautiful woman be Sheba who's, who's over on another rooftop.

Dave Hamski: And he, you know, LUS after her and he finds out that one of his military commanders is the husband of, of be Sheba. So you know, king David goes on to have an affair with Be Sheba and in order to hide it from that military commander. , he orders that military commander and his army to appoint in a battle where they all get slaughtered.

Dave Hamski: He knew that these he knew that his military, military commander and those soldiers would, would not be able to hold and [00:39:00] that point of the battle. But he sent them anyways, so you know, later on he, he repents for, for that. And you know, we, our, our military leaders, they, there's a couple senior ranking military leaders who have suffered from best Sheba syndrome where, you know, they've been at the top of their game and they go and have an extra marital affair.

Dave Hamski: Or they spend government money in an illegal way and they end up getting, you know, they end up getting caught and their careers get torched. And it's all it is over the news. You know, and I mean, I won't name names, but this has happened multiple times. You can, you know, just look, just type up be Sheba syndrome military leaders and, and there there's unfortunately a long list of those who have fallen to this.

Dave Hamski: Well, you know, it's that [00:40:00] leader who is betraying others due to his lust or his greed. What I notice is a phenomenon with the military leaders that, that I've talked to that, that got the, the vaccine. There's a quite a few who said to me, I don't want this, but I need to get it in order to protect my career.

Dave Hamski: Or I don't want this, but I'm two years away from retiring. I just need to get it. Or, you know, these are people and I'm very, very much making distinction that these are people in positions of authority. So like senior non-commissioned officers and you know, feel grade and company leader officers, they're saying, I don't want this, but they're getting it anyways.

Dave Hamski: And what that is, is they're betraying [00:41:00] themselves and then those who are in positions of authority and ordering. The soldiers below them to get the vaccine that are betraying those soldiers as well. And they're doing it solely to protect their career. That's what I'm calling Beba Syndrome 2.0 is they, they're, and it's, it's awful because they're they're not just betraying someone else.

Dave Hamski: They're betraying themselves all for their career and for, and so, you know, I, I've talked to yeah, for money and for status and I mean, that's, how can you follow someone like that? You know, if, how can you follow someone who's gonna betray themselves like ? I mean, that's a, that's setting off some alarm bells there.

Dave Hamski: Like, okay, well if they betray themselves, they'll probably betray me. You know, especially for an institution that's centered [00:42:00] off trust. It is a special, you know,

Sam Sigoloff: he was telling me, He wasn't, he didn't have a long tab. There's very few that do, but he went to a unit that was special forces and he said the, the commander when he showed up, he said, look, you can do anything wrong.

Sam Sigoloff: You know, like, people do wrong stuff, but if you cheat on your wife, you're outta here. It's like, that seems strange. No, it's, it's absolutely correct because if you can betray the person that you have become one flesh with, then you can betray anybody at that point. There is nothing sacred in your life.

Sam Sigoloff: Mm-hmm. . And it makes per perfect sense.

Dave Hamski: Yeah. Well, good on that commander for, for having that, you know, and to, to, to say that to soldiers straight up. I mean, the hits the nail on the head. And you know, I, I had some conversations with, with some, some leaders throughout the organization up there in Alaska.

Dave Hamski: And like one of the things that, that one of them said, and this, this is a senior ranking. Army officer there. [00:43:00] He said, if I get cancer from this, then so be it. And I just like looked at him and was like, I'm like, all right, say that to your wife. Say that to your daughter. You know, like that's, that's insane that you would, you know, because like, I mean, that, that, that rolls so much into it of like, okay, hey, well, you know, someone's gonna have to take care of you.

Dave Hamski: And just all the emotional stuff tangled into it and, you know to, to see that, to see our force just at this point where, you know, people take something out of fear. Like, Hey, I, I need to maintain this job. Like, I really don't want this. Like, and just go ahead and take it. I'm, it, it, it's really saddening to me.

Sam Sigoloff: We need men to be men, women to be women, to stand up and do what's right. . And if they don't want to do it, then they shouldn't ask anyone else to do it. [00:44:00] Exactly. They shouldn't do it if they don't want to do it. You should never do what you don't want to do. Exactly.

Dave Hamski: Exactly. And if you have something in you that's telling you this is, this is wrong.

Dave Hamski: Talk about it. Speak about it. And and yeah, you just, I mean, we all have a moral compass for a reason. So here's

Sam Sigoloff: another question that you, you may or may not want to answer, and you may wanna be kind of aloof about it, and that's okay if you do. But what do you think should happen to Commanders that gave this order?

Sam Sigoloff: And if you, again, if you don't wanna answer this.

Dave Hamski: No, I won't be able to No, no. I got something on this one. They, they need to admit that they're wrong and they, they should be punished. . And so I think, you know, those at very senior levels should receive the, the har the not harsh what the law last for [00:45:00] the, the full, the fullest extent.

Dave Hamski: Yeah, exactly. What the law allows for and what's what is just so they should receive. You know, I think what they should receive is the, you know, getting, getting sent out on their way. But at the end of the day, all the way down to the, the platoon leader, they need to be told, Hey, this was wrong and we need to correct it.

Dave Hamski: Because when you don't do. When you just ignore it and move on, that sets a precedence for this to happen again. And then even worse, for those who are that in tune with their, their conscience, this is going to eat some people up where they're gonna be like, oh, you know, there's a lot, you [00:46:00] know, there's people in my formation again, who are now sick from this.

Dave Hamski: And, you know, I was the one who, who forced them to, to do this. I'm the one who, who was part of the coercion. I'm the one who denied, you know, the religious eque or, or made this made life difficult on them. And so at a minimum, at a minimum, those people, those those leaders need to talk to their formation, say, Hey, I messed up.

Dave Hamski: You know? And as you go out to chain command, I, I, you know, heck, I mean, can you really give go Mars and, and the careers of everyone in the Army right now, or in the military, like , it's not realistic, but we need to, we need to write this before it becomes another moral injury for the Army. I don't think that, that, I don't think that, well, the military as a whole, I don't know if, I don't think we [00:47:00] can suffer another moral injury.

Dave Hamski: I mean, we've it, it, it'll be too much. So and, and I already know the argument against it. Like that's, you know, ludi, ludicrous, like the army in the military as a whole, d o d would never would never do that because it would be a threat to national security. It would make us look weak, you know?

Dave Hamski: It would, it would break trust. I mean, what's. . How, how are you gonna fix this thing? Like, how, how are you gonna build trust already? The, the trust structure is crumbled. I mean, I can't tell how many soldiers I've talked with that are like, man, I'm just getting out. Like I'm serving. I'm finishing up my contract.

Dave Hamski: I'm getting out. No, no way am I going to re-up. You know, no way I'm gonna tell one of my friends or family to join right now. You know, we need leaders to step up and be exactly what they're supposed to be and say we messed up and we take [00:48:00] responsibility. You know, and I'll add to that, I don't know, did you see that video of the midshipman at the Naval Academy where they're talking about the honor code and living an honorable life and he starts asking a question to the the commandant.

Dave Hamski: Okay, so yeah, there's, there's this video of this midshipman who they're in an auditorium at the Naval Academy and it's all 4,000 midshipmen. And so what midshipman and cadets go through is professional military ethics education. PME squared is what they call for short. And like every month, all the cadets in midshipman, you know, at the respective academies had to like, do either in small groups or large groups talk about the honor code and talk about honorable living.

Dave Hamski: And and it's so sicking to hear and talk about like things in order to prepare them to be leaders. Yeah. [00:49:00] And so this so sickening

Sam Sigoloff: to hear these people talk about this stuff when it's like, But you're not doing it.

Dave Hamski: Exactly. So this midshipman, you know, stands up, introduces himself and starts asking a question to the commandant of Midshipman about honorable living.

Dave Hamski: And he mentions he is like, as a midshipman with a religious accommodation request in how can we define honorable living? And even before he can finish the question, like, we don't know what his question was, but we know it has something to do with, with refusing the vaccine and having religious accommodation request.

Dave Hamski: And the commandant interrupts him. And, and the comical part of it is the commandant's. Like, I'm not interrupting you , but he clearly is. He goes, he's like, I'm not interrupting you, but. , this is a conversation. This is more of a one to four conversation, not a one to 4,000 because [00:50:00] all 4,000 midshipmen are inside this auditorium.

Dave Hamski: Having this discussion about honorable living, and I'm like what coward is on that commandants part? You just missed a golden opportunity to really develop those midshipmen. And because they are going to need to talk about this, they're going to need to, to face this when they take command of, you know, whatever group of sailors or marines that they're gonna be in charge of here in the short future, because this is isn't going away.

Dave Hamski: And so, I mean, you know, I'll do a. Yeah, exactly how to deal with it because this is, this is on people's minds and, and people's lives are impacted by this. And so I don't know if that mid-shift, that's

Sam Sigoloff: how they were taught just in that moment right there, that that became the standard.

Dave Hamski: Exactly. Exactly.

Dave Hamski: Exactly. That's, [00:51:00] and, and that, that sits with people. And so, I dunno, I'll do shout out to that midshipman, good job on you. And if you ever want to talk about honorable living as it you know coincides with what we're facing right now. You can hit me up, but go Army Beat .

Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. But if you're out there Mitch and give me an email to, to, I'd like to talk to you.

Sam Sigoloff: It's after hours@seventeenninetyone.com. After hours@seventeenninetyone.com, I'd love to talk to you. There was a similar story at Fort Benning where there was a captain who they, they had an auditorium, I don't know if you've heard this story. There was an auditorium. Yeah. And this guy's like Yeah, exactly.

Sam Sigoloff: He's, he's a, he's a friend of mine and I'm not gonna say his name cuz that he wants it out there again. But as a, as a field grade officer in an auditorium of everyone receiving a gomar or a general order of memo of rep memorandum of record, sorry. General order general officer memorandum of record, that's what it's gomar.

Sam Sigoloff: And they're talking about the shot and they're saying [00:52:00] things that are clearly not true. And this, this officer stands up and said, you're lying. That doesn't exist. And they escorted him out and then later arrested him and yeah, it wasn't good. , but those are the leaders we need. Those are true leaders who will stand up against, you know, the, and go against the grain.

Sam Sigoloff: That's personal courage. I spoke with Pete Dr. Pete Chambers a while back, and he said that personal courage is often more difficult Oh, yeah. Than physical courage. Cause like yeah, everyone's gonna do the same thing. When someone's shooting at you, you're gonna make himself shooting at you. But when you're going against the grain, going against the leadership and you can lose everything,

Dave Hamski: that's, and that's what we need to be teaching, teaching these, these young leaders and reteaching our current leaders.

Dave Hamski: Because we're coming into a time, we're already here, we've already arrived into a time where we're gonna be challenged more morally and ethically than ever. You know, the, we'll still be challenged physically, but that's, that's the easy part. [00:53:00] You know, it's too easy to, to push yourself through physically.

Dave Hamski: But it's the moral and ethical dilemmas that you're gonna face that are gonna keep piling up here. So gotta prepare, prepare 'em now for it.

Sam Sigoloff: Exactly. Okay. And last question for you. Looking back, what would you have done different?

Dave Hamski: I wouldn't have done anything differently because I'm able to go to bed at night and rest and sleep well.

Dave Hamski: You know, I, I miss, I absolutely miss leading paratroopers because I love them. I, I love it, I love the job. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't do anything differently. I mean, you know, I don't think a, a request for a court martial would've been granted in my case. But. . You know, I think, I think it was, it was worth it.

Dave Hamski: It was definitely worth it to me. And I've had multiple soldiers reach out and just tell me thank you. Or, you know, I have some that reach out and ask for [00:54:00] advice and, you know, mentorship and everything. And, you know, those, those relationships wouldn't have happened if, if I hadn't taken the stand that I took.

Dave Hamski: And also like just this community of people who are making, making the force better. Like, I wholeheartedly believe that our efforts will, will get us back on track. You know, I don't want anyone who's in right now to be like, you know, all we're the worst. Like, and, and just stop believing like. And, and not having any hope.

Dave Hamski: You know, y'all are in there. Do your job, do it well. But, you know, have, have courage and, you know, hopefully they can learn something from, from us and, and the rest who, who are going out there and going out on a limb. That hey, like you have it in you, you, you can do it. [00:55:00] So, but no, I want,

Sam Sigoloff: and that's one thing I wanna Good, that's one thing I wanna say too is like, there is forgiveness.

Sam Sigoloff: Mm-hmm. , right? We want justice cuz God is a just God, he's also a merciful God. But you can't have the mercy of justice, at least the conviction and, and the stand trial and the conviction. But there is forgiveness. There is mercy, but at first you must. Go through the process of admitting and acknowledging that something

Dave Hamski: happened.

Dave Hamski: And, and I would, I would come back and I would serve again, and I would serve with the same people. I, I would, you know, and I would do that. But those, those things had to happen first is, you know, we need to have justice. And and for some people, based on the level of responsibility that they, that they take on, when they give that order, they're going to have, they bear more of the [00:56:00] brunt, they bear more of what's gonna come down and what should happen.

Dave Hamski: So there's people who they should no longer be, you know, commanding. They should no longer be in the army. Their, their records should be marked permanently for it. And then there's others who, you know, they don't bear as much responsibility for it, and they should have to, you know, Recognize and, and talk about, hey, this is, this is what went wrong with this.

Dave Hamski: So, yeah. But there's, there's always forgiveness. But for forgiveness is not, it doesn't come without there being justice first.

Dave Hamski: Well,

Sam Sigoloff: you're, you're a stronger man than, than I, cuz I will never work for these people again. As soon as I take that uniform on off, I will never go back on. Well, because I, I don't ever wanna get back in the position. I will defend this country, don't get me wrong, but I won't

Dave Hamski: be doing it uniform. Well, I don't know, maybe, maybe it'll just [00:57:00] be like another a short, short step, you know, like, alright, hey, we get rid of you again.

Dave Hamski: Yeah. , so you, me and the five other people. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But also, like, if I can just do a shout out to any other commanders who, who, who are in the same position You know, I, I would love to connect and just hear about your experiences. I don't know how many there were of us, but I, I, I thought I saw an Army Times article, which, oh man, army Times, you can trust everything that comes out of that.

Dave Hamski: It said something to the degree of there's six, six commanders who are relieved. So I don't know if that was like battalion commanders or if they're counting company commanders as well, but it, it would be great to, to hear their story too.

Sam Sigoloff: And if you're one of those commanders and you, you want to use this platform email me same email after hours@seventeenninetyone.com after [00:58:00] hours@seventeenninetyone.com.

Sam Sigoloff: That's the year the bill of right is ratified. Well, sir, thank you for coming on. I truly appreciate it. Where can people find you and find what you're doing now that you get to live with a long beard and get to be outside a lot and, you know, have the, the proverbial

Dave Hamski: day? Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you, Sam, for, for what you're doing and, and how you lead and protect our God-given rights.

Dave Hamski: And then, and then people's health. People's health. It's, it's personal and, and it's important. And we need those who are truly gifted and, and know about health. We need those at the forefront to help, help this nation get healthier. So thank you for what you're doing. But yeah, I'm up here in Northwest Montana, specifically in Kalispell, Montana.

Dave Hamski: And I'm a fishing guide in the summertime on Flathead Lake. So if you wanna catch some, some massive lake trout. Come out with come out with us with fly Head Lake charters. And then you know in the off season I help [00:59:00] people maintain and improve their homes. I got a little handyman business and I just start up.

Dave Hamski: So, you know if you're transitioning outta the Army, just it's tough. A transition of any branch of service is tough, but like you can do it. So set a goal and go after it, make it happen. If you need to reach out, I'm on LinkedIn just as Dave Hams and and then yeah, so that'd be great.

Sam Sigoloff: And that's how we met was through

Dave Hamski: LinkedIn. Yep.

Sam Sigoloff: Well, sir, I, I want to thank you again and it's, it's relationships like, like this, you and I now have, I've been able to have these types of interactions and relationships with people all over. The United States. And that is one of the good things that's come out of this, is I've been able to meet some of the salt of the earth people, people that will get thrown into that furnace to be refined, not knowing they'll come out alive, but like Sha Acne shack and Ada come out and are better for it.

Sam Sigoloff: Exactly. [01:00:00] Without even the smell of smoke

Dave Hamski: on their glass. Exactly. Exactly. And that's what we gotta do. And then, you know iron sharpens iron, so, you know good men need to hang out and develop good men. The same women too, you know, good women. They need to hang out with good women and, and we develop and sharpen each other.

Dave Hamski: So that, that's, I, I value this relationship and, and the relationships that come from this. So let's, let's keep on making each other better.

Sam Sigoloff: Yes. Well, thank you. And, and I'll be praying for you and your family that, that you have the success and the, and. The joy in your life knowing that you've done the right thing, cuz it, it will pay off in this world and in the next same

Dave Hamski: to you. God bless. God bless you.[01:01:00]

Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there in duty, uniform of the day, the full armor of God. Let's all make courage more contagious than fear.

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