Interview: Coty Kuhns (Salvation, Calvinism, Lordship, Testimony)

Coty Kuhns has a testimony many can relate to. After honestly searching for the truth, he found it through Pastor Richard Fulton of knowimsaved.com. In today's interview, Pastor Jesse discusses with Coty his testimony of overcoming emotional distress and doctrinal errors in eventually finding the truth of the gospel.
His Church: @NorthsideChurchAthens

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people who are who take What God Says sincerely you know if you if if you're a sinner you're you're going to go to hell
something has to happen here and when people are telling them well you got to turn from your sins they're thinking the
people who are sincere thinking I can't do that I have tried I tried sincerely and I I could not do it you know
questions like how much oh how often do I have to do it all at once yeah never
comfortable looking at myself until I finally looked at Christ and thought well if there's my salvation then I
don't no one's going to change the fact that Christ died for my sins
all right well I'm here with Cody Coons good friend of mine and I wanted to get him to share his story because when we
were doing the calvary connect podcast I had you and your wife on yeah Shelby's not here because you guys have two kids
now yeah and Kyla's with her because we have a kid too so a lot to take care of a lot to take care of lots of stuff that
would be hard for Trent to edit out yep but I think your story is just like really amazing
um I know we were talking about beforehand and I know mental health is not like the primary part of your story
but it does play a big part so I kind of want you to just go through your testimony how you came to
understand salvation what you struggled with before yeah and then after that we'll kind of talk about some of the
things you fell into doctrinally that you had to come out of like even though you're saved there's just a ton of stuff
out there that's not accurate yeah so I I guess I can start from the beginning
really when I was a kid I wasn't very churched I would say
um my mom was a Believer she trusted Christ when she was younger
um and we didn't go to church for I I would visit my grandparents we would go to
church things like that so it was ceremonial ceremonial a little few and far between visits we visited them every
summer so I I guess every summer we would go and I'd maybe go to a little Sunday school that my um my grandma
would run but didn't go to church that much growing up um around
my high school years we moved to Florida and uh we began going to church quite a
bit specifically my mom was married at the time but specifically my mother and
my siblings we started going to church quite a bit um you know every Sunday we found a
dress that was very close to us a Baptist Church and um I so I had always heard growing up
about God and about Christ about Jesus I I didn't know really much more than
those things God existed uh the Bible is real it should be
trusted you know who Jesus Christ was I knew he died on a cross and things like that just just the facts you know a lot
of Americans know stuff like that but I guess I started learning more when we went when we started going to this
church and I started being interested in those things let's say spiritual things
I guess was interested in those things and this is around your teen years around my teen years yeah we moved to
Florida when I was in 10th Grade so I guess around 15 I think you're in 10th
Grade so yeah so starting to go to church and being interested in these things and going to youth group I found
a youth group it wasn't a youth group at that church it was another church and it was really fun a lot of things going on
so I started going it's where I met Shelby my wife who you previously spoke of and
um I kind of just fell into [Music] um I guess the religious aspect of uh
Christendom or Christianity I just started kind of doing Christian things you know I started uh you know it's not
like I was doing drugs or a drink or anything in high school but those things were very you know shunned in my life I
didn't I didn't want to do those things um premarital sex stuff like that was
really important in my mind and things like the Bible and things about like talking about Jesus and doing just
Christian things which you would think the the current culture of Christian things is just following rules just
following rules be good yeah I fell into we went on mission trips me and Shelby went to Haiti and things like that and I
just thought this is like my life this is a cool thing but still nothing about
where am I going to go when I die it was never talked about it was really never talked about I I will say the youth
therapy went to it was never spoke about I don't even ever really ever remember hearing
um the term gospel or anything about that it was very about the culture at
the time even that we would study books a lot of times not even the Bible we would just study books
um you know popular books at the time and now like Christian Author by Christian author or quote Christian or I
was like 2004 yeah maybe yeah around 2000 like 2004 to 2008 because I
graduated I think Francis Chan was really big France's fan was very big as a matter of fact we went to a a a
gathering of teens at Daytona Beach called I think it was called big stuff or snow is called Student Life Student
Life Francis Chan spoke there yeah he's big around that time he was big and crazy love he wrote that book crazy love
right people were like all about that there's a ton of bad Doctrine in there a lot so yeah so
you're talking about like the culture at that time yeah the popular preachers and this is who we were listening to and um
so and it all seemed fine it was all good feelings and all um just uh area especially when you're
in high school yeah it's just you're not thinking about these things anyways so um I was confused there was a time in
high school where I was questioning my salvation which I know now I did not I was not a saved individual however at
that time I was questioning I wanted to know uh am I saved I think maybe maybe someone had preached about and I thought
well am I saved and I remember um speaking to the assistant pastor of
the church that we we were attending it's called it was called Trinity Baptist Church um I think it's still there in Ocala but
either way I asked the assistant pastor you know it's the whole um kind of typical Baptist thing at the end of the
message come forward if you have something going on well I went forward and spoke to the assistant pastor and he
said you know what's going on and I said uh I'm not sure if I'm saved or not so he pulled me to a back room and I
basically told them what was going on I'm kind of questioning things here don't know what's going on and um what a perfect time to give somebody
I would I I really believe I think back on that time now I don't know um but I really believe that I would
have trusted in Christ at that moment I I was sincere in it it wasn't seeking yeah but for the truth I wasn't faking
and I really did want to know you know about salvation and stuff like that but uh he he told me well maybe you should
just be baptized again and so so I got so I went and got I had been
baptized before when I was very very young going um to my grandma's church I
walked forward and did that whole thing and was baptized afterwards me and my cousin at the same time so it was like a
big event right I think we even had a maybe a dinner or something like Jeremy
and my cousin and Cody trusted Christ you know they're going to be baptized so let's have a a dinner so anyways he told
me to be baptized again so that's what I did I was baptized again and still not knowing not knowing no and you were
doing what you were told and I guess bring about yeah and I guess it pacified at the time
my my questions uh just like any event would you know do if if a someone you
trust to minister the word to you says it you know you think yeah you're a kid like yeah you would think these people
would know what to tell me yeah so I don't know where else to go I mean these people knew the Bible No Authority based
on the word no just be baptized again yeah so that's what I did I was baptized
again and then fast forward I I I joined the military I married my wife we go off
to Japan and we try to go to church for maybe about a year over there in Japan
yeah they had there's a lot of people that stayed back a lot of military members oh okay and I have like started
churches so it's very there was a lot of options and we started going to church but we just kind of slowly stopped and then I
kind of fell into the typical it's just so Tim I look back at it now it's just so typical but it's like the
church is hypocritical and you know you get angry at that like I'm not a hypocrite myself right and so uh church
is hypocritical Christians are hypocritical so that just led me kind of down the road of just kind of being angry at the whole thing I wasn't
adamantly angry I wasn't just uh raging against Christianity but I it was more
of uh I guess agnostic about it like well just what that's what it is over there and I don't really care so it
sounds like you were raised with these rules that would make you righteous and you're probably not even thinking they'd
make you righteous but this is what Christianity is yeah don't drink don't have sex you know go to church read your
Bible and get baptized yeah and then you grow up and you find out that no one does that yeah but they still call
themselves Christians and they still go to church yeah exactly so you just looked at the I mean blatant hypocrisy
yeah you're like I'm out yeah yeah so a lot of people are like that yeah so I just stopped going
um and just didn't really look back I didn't really think about it and you know I really don't want to blame
any of this on my family especially my mother my mother did understand the gospel even at that time she understood the gospel
um and it was probably portrayed to me uh correctly maybe not so clearly and or
often yeah or often and maybe it wasn't the Forefront of what was being portrayed to me but I believe my mom
does does and did know that it's by faith alone in Christ I just uh wasn't it wasn't put
at the Forefront of my mind that this is important we need to you need to know you know yeah and you need to trust
Christ as your savior so I stopped going to church and um just kind of lived my life we left
the military we moved out to um this is where the Airline jobs were on the military I worked on airplanes
and Airline jobs were out west so I moved we moved to Portland Oregon
um which is was at that time and is now obviously very liberal yeah uh politically and just and
just otherwise there was a myriad of philosophies out there
um and you can imagine I'm still young I was 22 when I got out of the military I was in for four years so
you know these philosophies that are new to me are just flooding my mind yeah yeah and then inundated with it I think
about the Athenians whenever Paul was like you know they they loved the next new thing like what's this new doctrine
this guy's that's kind of how I was like this is so great I'm learning so much and I'm going to become such a such a
wise philosopher in this world and so so First Corinthians right yeah exactly
yeah so I'm getting mixed up with worldly philosophies you know I'm reading books
by just atheists and and worldly philosophers and and just talking to
people and I I'm thinking it's great for a time you know because I'm young and I'm in a city and here's all this stuff going on and it satisfies that human
element of Pride like yeah I'm collecting all this wisdom and knowledge and you know the average person is just
inundated with sports and relationships and you know social drinking and stuff
I'm reading books yeah it was uh getting knowledge I don't know if you remember that guy on YouTube yeah Tai Lopez I
don't know if his name was Tyler he reads yeah get a Lambo yeah well I can
tell you uh that just was up after a while because I think we were in
Portland for four or five years and at the end of it um anyway so I was just being inundated with all these things
and you can imagine just what that did to my my brain I was just so
lifted up in Pride about who I was and then thinking I was so smart and so you know you should have seen me if you
would have met me back then you would probably you'd be like this guy is a dummy like he thinks I was just
repeating what I read and thinking yeah that was that is I I like that you bring that point up that is like Christian or
uh um the youth culture today yeah it's like I'm an atheist why are you an
atheist well and then they'll repeat literally like verbatim something that Dawkins said or uh deGrasse Tyson said
or whatever and they'll they'll just cling to that you start asking them personal things and they just flop
that's a lot of progressivism today it's just repeating tropes that you heard in college class that you're the professor
say or reading a book yeah but you've never actually explored the substance of it yeah exactly yeah and I think uh
well it's just the worldly culture it's it's been that way for a long time and and so I just fell right into it and I
was never I would say I was never an atheist by definition or
even an agnostic I honestly did always believe that there was a God I couldn't get past just the
The Logical sense yeah something had to has to be of a higher power than where
we're at right now because look at these things I mean design yeah design was the big thing for me I mean there's no way
so I was never a uh non-believer in God but I the the Bible I was very agnostic
towards the Jesus thing could be real could not be real whatever though doesn't apply to me well about four or
five years into living in Portland all these things flooding my mind and um you know regularly use of
recreational drugs marijuana was was legal out there and so you know I I
always say I did I never did I never smoked marijuana illegally I always did illegally because they did legalize I
was out there but but so all these things all these things going on and there was a night
um and mind you before before it says I I was not an anxious child I never really had
um actually I looked at people with um mental health problems for lack of a
better term and it was just like you know what is their problem why get over it get over it yeah and
um anyways one night I had a panic attack and it was um if anyone's ever
had one you know they're just very it's like an intense uh feeling of fear and doom and
and you kind of just can't get rid of it it's like adrenaline rushing through your body and you you just got to kind
of go through it yeah you're not going to just stop it you just got to kind of go through it well about a week later I I kind of like you
know I looked it up online I thought I was having a heart attack is really what led me that's what most people think it is yeah you know I'm on Google and it's
like you're having a heart attack and I'm thinking like there's no way like I'm 22 years old I'm having a heart attack well
um about a week later I had another I didn't think anything of that panic attack I thought it's a panic attack people have them I'll be fine well a
week later I had another one and this one lasted it's for like three
months it was well I'd say half a year it was like half a year of like being in panic mode yeah it was it
was a very wild time for me and uh you know this is like I said I wasn't an anxious child I was an anxious
person a depressed person or anything like that uh but I just got smacked with this uh this this
panic and it just wouldn't go away and in my Panic state
I I needed something to help me um I didn't want to turn to medicine or
um you know like pills and things like that I had recently had a friend who had kind of went down a semi the
same road who had been on pills and the pills had made things worse so in my Panic state I'm thinking I don't want to make things worse so I don't want to
take those pills and made him worse so I didn't want to do that I didn't really want to talk to anybody about her or go to like a psychiatrist or anything like
that of course my wife has never been through anything like this or even really seen anybody go through anything like this so she can't help me you know
I call my mom um my mother and as a source of comfort you know because she's the one who
raised me so I'm trying to get information from her and she she did give me good advice which you know you need to read the
Bible and uh things like that but even she can't help me you know you're not going
to get in my brain and fix it you know that's not gonna be a thing so anyways uh in my Panic State I had to grab a
hold of something because I I just I needed to get out of this thing it was I was literally felt like I was going
crazy losing my mind and so I turned to the Bible there was some books that my I believe my mother
suggested so I bought those books and started reading them and I was just trying to
not deny any more that uh
God was real in that he is he is involved in humans lives
that was another thought I had you know like God might be real but he's not involved in you decided to seek for yourself I did
and yeah pretty quickly I found out it didn't take me very long to find out that the Bible was true just by just by
studying it just by looking at it well logically um we were just speaking about this before we started recording
you know for 40 authors the prophecy alone that was fulfilled just by Christ himself let alone other events in
history I thought this has got to be God's word I I pretty much threw out the idea of any other kind of multi-deist religion
um they kind of just seemed so silly to me there's you know and so the the the the one
um God you know there's there's other Islam things like that well those kind of went out the window too and I just
started kind of looking into things um you know the Quran
um talks about how the Bible is the word of God well the Bible itself you know but they don't believe Jesus was the son
of God right so that those those two can't can't add up so yeah it was pretty easy to find out that the Bible was the
word of God so that was pretty established in my mind pretty early in this panic mode that this is the word of God well so now I got a good at least
basis to go off of right and so I'm still reading books I'm studying the Bible the Bible is really not making sense to me um just because I
didn't know anything I didn't have the foundation of the gospel and and you know that can just mess even when the
foundation is not firm everything else is shaking oh yeah you look at the teachings of Christ and you think that these I mean you you only have one
position but to take them literally yeah so so I did that and there were some books
and in one of the books it mentioned I think probably in the beginning about salvation like you know
we're going to go through the Bible but before that you need to you need to be saved you need to understand that uh you
know um the gospel you need to understand salvation now I will say that book did
not give a clear gospel it was very workspaced but it got me thinking about
I you know in my Panic sake I wasn't thinking in my savior am I not saved but that brought up the question I'm like am
I saved not safe and then that sent me into even more of a panic mode because now I'm thinking
I have no clue if I'm saved I'm I'm trying to go back in my past you know those those years I went to
church and and I'm trying to think like did I get saved did I ever you know do the things that this book specifically
is telling me to do as far as you know I mentioned Jesus but it also mentioned like you know turning from your sin things like that and so I I am in a
panic mode and I'm in a more panic mode now because I'm thinking I'm might at any moment drop into hell I
was I was scared to go to sleep because I'm thinking like if I have a heart attack or something and I die I don't know if I'm going to heaven it was very
common I've heard a lot of people say that when they're seeking and they're not finding the truth yeah they're
coming across the workspace stuff and that's no like I'm not I'm not doing enough and if I die tonight it's over it
was months of that and when you type in I'm a millennial so I went straight to the internet typing in questions you
know how can I know I'm saved and the people that pop up are the big Publishers
um not not to name well I will name names they're like John MacArthur John Piper things like that and we they're
huge sprawl yeah sprawl zondervin the publishing company is all about those guys yes they really push and promote
material those are the things I Found You YouTube videos those are the things I found those are the people and and
that's the common message nowadays really the minority believes um what I found out to be the truth but
uh so that's what I'm finding and it's just sending me I'm thinking exactly what you said I cannot I don't know how these guys are
doing it they're talking about you know you you can't be living in sin and and
be saved and I know they put a measure on it this human measure on it but I'm thinking there is no way I can keep this
I'm trying so hard I mean I stopped uh doing the recreational drugs I I was
smoking cigarettes the time I stopped that cold turkey I even stopped caffeine because I thought in some way caffeine
might affect me and I remember you telling me about the the uh the homeless and the poor and
all of that yes yeah and how you looked at those instructions in light of the teachings of like MacArthur and Piper
and sprawled yeah say that whole sinless aspect yes yeah the and you were like I
gotta start a business to help the the poor and the needy and like live my life for that well and the question was asked
one of the books or articles I was reading was Jesus says very clearly and he's speaking about The Sermon on the
Mount that you need to help the poor and he's like I know people want to quantify this but he's basically saying if you
don't help the poor you're going to hell yeah so in my lost state am I am I trying to understand salvation State oh
my gosh I I remember I was watching a show one time with my wife a popular show Game of Thrones I don't
suggest anybody watches it it's it's pretty raunchy but I was watching it at the time and there was a this is going
to sound so silly but there was a uh a scene where one of the Dragons was like breathing fire on an army of people
and I remember my wife looked at me during the summer was like are you okay because I was sitting there just staring at the wall pondering someone's gonna
make me cry and I don't want to get emotional but I was thinking like this is going to be horrible if I go into hell this is going to be very bad yeah
and so I was so I was just scared it was a long time for like probably
the whole Panic State and everything so probably about six months I'm in this state just wondering like how can I know
I'm saved how can I know this and so I went on for a long time and I was trying to read and trying to study and there
was a a website I found it's probably the 50th time I typed in online how can
I know I'm saved and I found a website and I suggest people go to the website we'll put it in the description it's a
yeah it's a great website made by a by a godly man who understands the gospel it's called noim save.com great
absolutely fantastic URL yes like I know I mean how do you get it he's got it yeah
but it's run by a man named Richard Fulton he's a pastor based out of Texas and
um so I went on there and he had his own testimony it was much like mine wasn't
he a pastor for a while he wasn't sure he was a uh I'm not sure if he's a pastor or like an evangelist yeah but he
didn't even or a traveling Pastor I guess but no he was not saved at the time and and he was he would do these
things to pass if I get baptized again and things like kind of like me uh you know during my younger days and he he
was never sure of his salvation and it caused him a lot of emotional stress kind of like kind of like me so I'm
listening to his testimony I'm like man this guy sounds just like me and then not only does he have his
testimony on there but he has where he walks through the Bible and shows you all these questions you can have about
salvation you know just for example do I have to know the day I was safe things like that right these questions are
going through my mind because they're coming up from these things I'm reading do I have to keep the law to be saved do I have to stop sinning to be safe things
like that well he has messages for all these and the the thing that made the difference is that he literally said okay let's
open our Bibles oh yeah and he would just walk you through what the Bible said about this situation
and it was just eye-opening to me and I still didn't quite get it so I he had a
little um communication like a contact form contact form where I
emailed him and I believe he called me that day and he said hi this is Richard full I wasn't
going to answer because you know it says Texas and it looked like a like a Spam call but I answered it and
he said this is Richard phone from gnomesave.com I got your your email I'd like to you
know talk to you and I think in the email I just wrote like something simple like I want to know I'm safe and I don't know how like I'm
trying to figure this out for six months you know so he said do you have a Bible and I said yeah I grabbed a Bible and in
my I was kind of embarrassed of my condition so I didn't want to be like I didn't tell Shelby I went to
normsafe.com and sent this so I was kind of embarrassed of my condition and I went out to my truck outside and had my
Bible and he said turn to John 3 chapter 3 and I thought well he's going to bring me to
John 3 16 right which is a great verse to bring somebody to when you're trying to lead him to Christ but I had read it
a million times and I'm I still didn't quite get it yeah so he said let's read John 3
14-15 and so we read it and I was not a Bible student or no knew the Bible very
well at that time so he brought me back to numbers and showed me the context about you know Moses lifting the breath
sir but I'm on the pole everybody that looked was healed and so he in light of that context which
is the context of John 3 16 he showed me what John 3 16 meant and it's like uh um and I I don't like saying this all
the time because people feel like they have to have a lightning bolt moment which is not the case it's as easy as
understanding the gospel and believing it but I had a I was just into such a state that I had a lightning bolt moment
it was just like oh my gosh playing this yeah Clarity yes it was beautiful to me
I remember going right inside I don't know if that was a moment I was saved or not it was the moment I understood though
that Christ paid for my sins this is the way yes and I remember going inside and
asking my wife like do you have you trusted in Christ as your savior like let me read you
something I'm like going through what I had just been taught three verses you know and I had been reading the Bible frantically and I felt
like everything was condemning me you know and well if I can just I mean it is yeah yeah it is I mean the law is is
telling us you are not going to be good enough exactly yeah and so now you see the
sacrificial lamb yeah it was a beautiful thing for you oh yeah and like I said I
don't know if that was the moment I was saved but it's the moment I understood yeah and
um from there there was still some confusion I still had some questions um Richard Felton was there to answer
some of those questions other people were there to answer some of those questions but I understood the gospel and that
started this whole journey with everything and
there was still some of the like the panic and stuff like that the anxiety that was kind of left over from
those those times but that slowly kind of started falling away and I started underst the bible really started making
sense to me once I understood it's by faith alone in Christ only he really did pay for it all it made a lot of sense to
me yeah and so um like I said there were still some questions but I answered them with the
Bible I went to the Bible and it started making sense to me and we
um really the rest is history that that's really what started my journey I I found
um you know the previous pastor of this church Yankee Arnold uh one of your mentors online your guys's YouTube
Ministry which I believe you started and I started growing from there because here's a man that understood stood the
gospel and stood on that foundation and so the Bible was being clearly explained to me yeah and I I feel like I just took
off it was just like growing experts it's so it's so natural like I want to comment on a couple of things because I
don't want to get too far away from what you just said like first of all that light bulb analogy like I think for a
lot of people why it is a light bulb moment is it's because the shackles are broken like all
this stuff that like you were saying like the you're just you're not good
enough your net you will never be good enough and you look at these men of who you don't know but they're telling you
that they're good enough yeah and you just do the things that they're doing and that'll be enough but you don't know what they're doing and so you just write
it off but the more you think about it the hell becomes more and more of a truth and you recognize I don't have any
Assurance so when you find I mean I just look at Hebrews and just you know find that rest go enter into this rest and
all that kind of stuff but I I think for a lot of people the reason why they describe it as a lightning bolt moment
and I like how you say it's not necessary yeah but for a lot of people it happens because it is that moment of
Freedom it's the burden being lifted it's like finding out all your debt is paid yeah you know and that you have no
more debt and then the other thing that you mentioned too about context that's what I love about Fulton Dr Arnold
Freddie kakuza Scudder I mean all the people that I'm close to but other people like uh Pastor Randy Ford
um that I was in Israel with a little while ago these men understand that context is so important if we look at
the context of the scripture right like what caused the scripture to come about God so loved in this way that he sent
his son and I'm going to make the promise to you in Genesis and I'm going to show you the entire record all the way through my old testament
and then I'm going to show you how Christ came and fulfilled that and then I'm going to prove it to you because you raised it from the dead that's how much
I love you that I gave my son for you yeah that's context you can't just take a verse we were joking about it this morning it's like I like to work quickly
why well because Jesus said Judas what thou go do is do it quickly so therefore I'm a quick man I just like to do things
quickly that's what a lot of people's Bible study is it's like one verse cherry-picked to meet a message or a
topic yeah and I think it's I think that moment we're in your truck and you understand it and then immediately you
go and tell Shelby it's like the woman at the well yeah she knew it she understood it she was like and she went
into the City and all these guys that she had probably been inappropriate with and knew a lot about her in an inappropriate way she's now saying
come and see a man that's told me all the things that ever about me yeah and here come the disciples they're like trying to get lunch and Jesus is like I
have meat to eat that you know not of and I could just imagine them like where'd you go where yeah for me we
can't find it but I just like see so many like the
growth that happens after a person trusts in Christ it is more natural than the lordship Salvation yeah that says
you've got to do in order to get yeah I mean there's there's no way yeah religion says do and Jesus says done
yeah I did it for you I know that's a cliche that we've all heard but it's so it's so true and that's what I like
about your story like all that suffering and searching and you know coming from a family that probably had
the gospel clear but was not taught I mean Shelby had understood the gospel but there wasn't any teaching on it you
go to church you hear rules you find other churches of you know hypocrisy and then you're really searching and the
people you find are not helping yeah you know they give you some temporary respite because you're going
I'm at least trying yeah but then when you're in the quiet moment and you know yourself you're like I am so far from
what the what the law requires me to be and then there's all the things that you don't know you have to do and you find that out and it causes another
you know catastrophe of realizing I'm never going to be good enough it was a wild time for sure
um I think a lot of people are there and it's just sad they are yeah and I have spoken since then since I've trusted
Christ and uh just kind of gone through all that time and like I said there were questions
afterwards um there were questions after I trusted Christ that
I had and I just had to go through the Bible I feel like almost any question you've had about your salvation or
anyone could ever had I has gone through my mind and I have had to study it out and it just made me a more sure of my
salvation and then it it kind of put me in a place to help people who were in the in the same situation or are in the
same situation there are a lot of people yeah and I've spoken to them and um can you talk about the YouTube stuff that
you would do like you'd get on these videos that you now found out were like and that ain't it yeah yeah so I would
after I understood the gospel I'd go back to these videos um where the gospel wasn't quite clear
hundreds of thousands of views yeah lots of views and um what the first one I
really kind of did it on was a was a John Piper video and I would just put in there because he would be saying things
and I would have studied the Bible enough at that time to know what he's saying is not correct especially specifically about the gospel a lot
about feelings and how you feel about things and that's how you should tell whether or not you're saved I thought this is just so ridiculous but I uh
would put on there you know I I bet you this video is going to bring a lot of people who are doubting their salvation because that's probably why they're
coming to this video because the video was about how to know you're saved and if you're still confused you can email
me so I put my email in there and I would get emails from people uh so it's all your email and John Piper video and
I I listened to his video and he says this and I did feel that way and he says
if you feel this way then that probably means you're not saved can you explain this to me and of course I would just
shut all that out and I would just give them what the words said you know I would just give them what the words said the thing that Richard Fulton did for me
whenever he led me to Christ was he he did exactly that he led me to Christ everyone else it's like they uh not
everyone else but people who don't understand the gospel or maybe they did it one time and they don't anymore it's like they lost it or
something they got caught up in the you know yeah Christian Dome or something the religion of it philosophy of
Christianity theological study there you go they would they it was like everyone
was skipping around the cross and all I needed was someone to just place my eyes on what Christ did and just keep them
there it wasn't Richard Fulton with some miraculous words teaching me anything he
just told me the word he just showed me what it is I needed to be saved and that's Christ and so when my eyes saw it
you know my eyes my eyes have faith I guess you can say I was just like there it is
there's my salvation Christ on the cross and that's and that's a historical fact and God is saying that is where my sins
were placed and that's what you need to believe in and I can believe in a historical fact and I can believe the account that God gave that that's what
paid for my sins that's easy and so that's what I did and that's just what I try to do with people and
um on on these videos and I would you know forums and and places like that and and blogs and
stuff like that I was still um on the internet a lot after that time which I'm not sure was maybe the best
thing for a new Christian because there's a lot on the internet um but yeah so I would just comment on
these videos and I would get a lot of emails from people and asking me how it
is they can they can know they were saved they were very confused and so it
was uh it was a good time of growing it was a good time of learning how to share the gospel um clearly with people you just kind of
learn how to take people where they're at you know some people don't have any knowledge really and you gotta you gotta kind of give
them some stuff um some of them know exactly uh the Salvation message but they're so
confused about aspects of faith and stuff these simple things and you just take them where they're at and walk them right up to the cross and yeah there's
your salvation and I just got um good about that and that was the uh
better about that and that was the fuel it just knowing the gospel knowing the
no understanding Grace and the freedom of the Gospel it's like the fuel that just kept me going it I think I I even
recently I've thought about I'd say maybe the first four years or three years of my Christian Life it was
just like it was like a a a whirlwind of just like motivation and and learning and growing
and it was just it was a it's a very treasured time because it was just it set the foundation for the rest of my
life so yeah yeah and so here I am now and um but there was a lot of people out
there in the same situation as me people who are who take What God Says sincerely you know if if you if if you're a sinner
you're you're going to go to hell some something has to happen here and when people are telling them well you got to
turn from your sins they're thinking the people who are sincere thinking I can't do that I have tried I tried sincerely
and I I could not do it you know questions like how much oh how often do
I have to do it all at once yeah you know never comfortable looking at myself until I finally looked at Christ and
thought well if there's my salvation then I don't No One's Gonna Change the fact that
Christ died for my sins so how how you know now I have something solid to stand on to place my faith in and now I can
know I'm saved because if that happened then I'm saved if it didn't happen then I should be pitied right because
I'm believing in something kind of like you know they're talking about not believing the resurrection in Corinthians you know we should all be
our We're Men most pity but anyways if that happened which it is a historical
fact and a lot of people try to uh shoot away but McDowell is probably my favorite now I know he's a big uh for
Spiritual loss guy like he does not have salvation clear but as a I think he's an attorney he went to go seek out the
veracity of Christ's life and he became a Christian now I don't know what that means I hope he put his faith in Christ
but I think the difference is like I don't mean to interrupt you but I think the difference is like honest seeking
yes you know and there are a lot of honest Seekers out there is what I've found there are a lot and a lot of them are on the internet and they're quiet
because they're scared yes because everything that they're hearing is is uh you know it's a yoke of it's It's
but it's bondage yeah it's a it's a yoke it's a heavy weight yeah and you don't want you don't want to ask the question
and get the same thing back you you want answers you're seeking it's it's it's
kind of like you're drowning and you want someone to
just give you a uh a float so you cannot drown anymore but
everyone keeps handing you all this oh it's garbage and you're like this yeah this isn't gonna like a water bottle or
something like I can't float on this I remember in uh College reading about
some things that Dr a ray Stanford would would say you know the founder of Florida Bible College
and he would compare like you know a man drowning in the ocean to a man who's seeking salvation yeah and there would
be these ships that would come by and throw him a book on how to swim there you go and uh then the next guy would
come by and would earnestly demonstrate on the boat what he needs to do this is how to tread water this is how to keep
your head above above the water all that stuff yeah but the man's still drowning yeah and then it wasn't until somebody
actually threw him a life raft for him to or a little buoy or whatever to grab
onto to hold on to to bring him ashore yeah and uh he would use the illustration if someone would throw him
the buoy and then throw him back out without the buoying it's like what has he done there but real salvation is that
guy getting delivered onto the boat and then put on dry ground yeah and now he's not in threat of of drowning anymore not
every illustration has its hole but I mean isn't that perfect with Christ I mean he's not only delivered us
temporarily to throw us back in and see okay do you really have enough now but he's he's put us on Solid Ground the
threat of drowning is gone the threat of hell is never going to be applied to the Christian yeah you and I talk about this
all the time the way we understand those doctrines the doctrine of eternal security which I believe is one and the
same with the gospel you're given eternal life some people want to parse it but the only way you understand that is by understanding and applying the
practicality of the word yep and that's the last thing that people do I know platitudes it's fancy sayings like I I
think a lot of preachers today they're cotton candy preachers I mean it's a huge piece of cotton candy you put one
drop or two drops of water on that it shrinks into nothing yeah it's gone yeah and people are getting that they're like
there's no substance here so where does the substance come in the word the word the word you know the word you live the
word you'll be good yeah as a Believer I never much like cotton candy so that's a
good that's a good analogy but the uh I think people get
I think it's just human nature the sin nature that gets addicted to personalities people's personalities I like I I'm like MacArthur I like Piper I
like well I like Chan or I like this guy or I like that guy and they they uh cling to their every word
and um I don't know why these people don't preach the gospel correctly I don't know
if they had a right at one time or maybe they never had it right I don't know but they they don't preach it correctly in a
lost man first and foremost needs the gospel and
that's what I needed and said plainly yes that way he can understand yes with scriptural evidence yes all throughout
the scripture they're explaining it to I think about Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch mhm
I I don't know why Clarity in the in in the and you know you and I call it
Clarity this that's a word that you and I use a lot and is used by people that we know a lot Clarity but it is really
just sticking with what the word says because the word is clear in and of itself it's very clear it's not
confusing for people when you just he took Richard Fulton took three verses and explained the gospel too yeah from
the whole Bible three verses and explain it clearly to me for me to understand it's clear in and of itself but people
um though the word just doesn't have enough
of a stance or veracity in their life to this is what I'm going to stick to
um but it's it is human nature to just apply your opinion to everything rather than just this is what the word says
like you said The Cult of Personality yeah I think one of the biggest guys right now still and he's been around for
a while and most of his stuff on YouTube is old and it still gets like I'm pretty sure some of his videos have over a
million views but Paul Washer oh yeah is probably one of the most
influential forces and people doubting their salvation yeah I would say because Paul
Washer makes salvation so hard he makes he makes the certainty of Salvation so
hard as if there is no joy in the Christian Life yeah and like first John 1 4 says these things right I unto you
that your joy may be full yeah they already have the joy you can have fullness of it yeah but you get guys
like washer and they preach these excellent they have the emotional yeah they're
like very convincing but then when you study the substance of it in light of the word which people don't do yeah it
falls short yeah but they don't they just take it up they go oh my God so I don't know I still have this sin in my
life I still struggle with this you know how do I know I'm really yielded yeah oh my goodness so then the doctrine of the
two Natures becomes imperative like so important for people to understand but washer's not teaching
that no it's like take your eyes off Christ and put it back on yourself yes yeah washer was Paul Washer was one that
I watched um uh quite a bit during that time of seeking he came up a lot because he produces a lot he does heart cry I think
is his ministers yes and he's very emotional he's very charismatic and it seems as though he seems honest sincere
yes and maybe he is uh but you can be honest and sincere and be sincerely
wrong sincerely wrong and he he is about salvation I I uh
um I had to test some of the things he says sometimes I don't detest the man but I do to test what he says and it's uh well MacArthur's the same way yeah I
don't want to bash on these people but I think our audience should know like you need to be careful with these men yes now washer I would probably say I have
never heard him give a clear gospel I don't think I have it MacArthur I have heard him say it but you read his stuff
yeah and he is so clearly lordship I mean I think there's a book we did a we
did a message or a video on it um another Jesus or something you had sent me the quote yeah that's right and he
very clearly says the call of the Gospel is yeah service like it is discipleship
it is count the cost that is not the call of the Gospel yeah have fun trying to live that life and you know what
MacArthur if that's what it is you tell me how much yeah because when I see in the Scripture it says Perfection unless
your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees you will not enter into the Kingdom right you know why everybody in The Sermon on the Mount was a little
concerned because the Pharisees were the creme de La Creme you know they're the top yeah they're like I can't even get
to them I gotta be better yeah they skip a reverse as like the law was a school Master you know I was looking
it was a Schoolmaster to lead us where to Christ and um yeah I don't know why why people
um like them who are big producers big Christians and uh you know Christianity why they they confuse the things but I
will say when the foundation is wrong and the foundation is Christ in his gospel that whole Bible it is all
throughout the Bible like you said he mentioned it in Genesis here's the promise and it's all the way at the end actually the last call that was one of
the verses that I told you I was still a little bit confused about things after um Richard Fulton had explained things
to me still a little bit confused still kind of struggling a little bit and in Revelation one of the last calls is uh
come and drink of the Water of Life freely when I freely when I yeah when I saw the freely I again went into my wife
and said it is free I literally told her it's like someone sat a candy bar on this table and said if you want the
candy bar take the candy bars they're available for you and I just go and grab it because he told me I can't and
lordship salvation is a tiny fish string yeah fishing line and it's like oh gotcha yeah
a little bit more so yeah so I uh Jesus proclaimed that in
the feast I think it's John 7. he says uh whosoever thirsts come and drink freely yeah yeah and out of his belly
shall flow rivers of Living Water and then there's the prophecy of the Holy Spirit yeah that would that came in Acts 2 but it's always been free it's always
been free free it's all throughout the Bible and when the foundation when that is
bad and they don't have it right everything else it's like it's it's faulty and you can see it you can see it
in people don't have the gospel right and and then the sad part but it's sad
for a moment because you know they're still saved but yeah the knots that have to be untied like there there are some
deep I'm working with some people right now where there's just some deep knots and it's like I don't know much about
massage but I know if you got like a knot in your back like there is some serious pressure and probably bruising
on the outside of the skin that has to happen for that not to become loose and have things flowing properly and I feel like
that's a lot of baby Believers yeah they carry this baggage from lordship I mean
I I would I would venture to say it's easier for a Catholic to come to Christ and then grow grow up in the spiritual
maturity than it is for someone who's coming out of lordship well they tend to
um almost because they're all evangelist right and so they they mix and a lot
there's a lot of Baptist churches that uh you know people grew a lot especially in the South where we're at a lot of
people grew up in Baptist churches and so they're thinking well because I go to a Baptist Church now Northside Baptist
Church in Athens and I was raised in a Baptist Church and you would think that they're one and the same but they're not
they're not they're not and so they just think they're all mixed and they're thinking well this man is telling me this and uh this man who's also part of
a Baptist Church or preacher at a Baptist Church is telling me this so I should listen to him too yeah but they're not saying the same thing I wish
I had this book with me but I think I threw it away but last Saturday we had choir practice before Resurrection
Sunday and my father-in-law brought in a little door hanger that he had received
from the church that I grew up in oh wow and it had a it had a a Gospel of John
and then on the back it had the Romans road and at the very back it says like salvation is not of work so sending man
should boast and it says these are the four things you have to do to get saved and it was I remember this I had not
seen this Cody since like 97 98 like when I was in Sunday school I
was gonna say 1972. but I remember looking at it and it was this little boy and he's kneeling and
there's four steps and there's the cross at the top wow and it says you have to believe excuse me you have to repent which means turn from your sin and in
the book they say that where it literally says it's not of works the next sentence that's why I wish I had the book yeah says turn from your sin
repent then you believe yeah the next step says ask and then the next step
says receive wow and so here you are as a kid or as an adult and you're going I have to do do do first I promise to turn
from my sin then I believe what does it mean to believe at that point are you believing
on the condition that you've also done enough then you have to ask for what it's already been given but you
just ask God save me and then you receive yeah what what do you do at that point most
people wait for a feeling I think exactly and I think a lot of people don't get it yeah but then they see their personal worker like oh this is
great don't you feel it blah blah and you're like you know human's mirror I mean that's that's the whole thing of
that yeah I'm great and then you go home and you're you're caught up in whatever sin you're caught up in or you still can't shake the drinking you still can't
shake the pornography stuff you show all that and you're sitting there wondering did I Repent enough did I do enough
cycle and you know what it does keep some slaves to that church yes because man they I can always go to the pastor
and then just get baptized again yeah now I want to be a love slave for Christ yeah like Paul says like I want to know
him I heard a quote that talked about that kind of four step or five step or sixth step however many
steps that that they might give for the gospel uh and by the way the seven steps of the Gospel that we teach those are
just seven points yeah by the way but the uh the quote was the only steps
required for salvation are the steps Christ took to the Cross that's good it's very good yes yeah my the whole
thing is people uh understanding like I did that uh your salvation is finished
absolutely just look it's just like those people look at that Brazen Serpent and they were healed you look to Christ
and Believe on him and you're healed it's it's such a simple concept that people stumble over it and I understand
it's human nature to do so because you want um you you spoke about religion and
rules and when I was younger um I think you were talking about um Judas doing things fast when I was
younger someone made the comment and want like a sermon that he was giving when I was going to church about Jesus
never running anywhere and so I thought in my religious self young self that I should not run
anywhere because Jesus did not run anywhere so you can see it's just the natural especially for a young kid just
to take something and go this is a rule I'm going to apply to my life because it's good and and you got Kenneth Copeland saying
if Jesus was around he wouldn't be taking residential flights like or uh what do you say commercial flights or
something commercial flights there's Steve like I gotta have my own tubes or something yeah just ridiculous well I
know we could talk forever but um I think I just I know that we had already interviewed you and all that but
I wanted to get this on Bible line because I just I know that this is a lot of people's story yeah and a lot of
people have experienced this freedom but what I think is good is that you didn't just sit with the freedom you went and
told other people yeah you know and some Ministries like Richard Fulton's know I'm saved.com
a guy's got two great books right now I think one of them is called no I'm saved knowing I'm saved and another one he's
written that I've I've probably read in about a quarter I've read about a quarter of it but it's uh leaving Egypt and talking about growing up into the
Christian Life yeah and it is going to be denying the Flesh and walking in the spirit but it doesn't have to be this
over complicated mess and that's where people get into theology man anyway we
could keep going on that but so then Ministries like Dr Arnold's and Dr kakuzas and scutters and Norm Diamante
over there Good Hope and all these people that are trying to show people the sufficiency of God's word not only
for your spiritual life to begin which is your salvation but also for all things faith and practice it's on the
words so know the word know the word and I want people to see that because you're not a man of uh like great
stature you know like you don't have this this this wealthy family that you come from or anything like that but you
are a man who's submitted himself to the word yeah and and that's how you came across the the gospel message that led
you to faith in Christ and you got two kids now and we always when we talk every day and we're always talking about
how we're going to raise our kids and all that kind of stuff but isn't it great to know that there's coming a time
when and I think your daughter is already understood most of the Gospel message yeah I think so but you know
what to tell her yeah you're not sitting there going oh maybe you gotta be perfect yes you know and then this is
going to be a huge burden on you and Daddy doesn't know yeah oh my gosh what
is that that's like a kid's gonna you tell that to a kid and they're gonna honestly flip because
that's like what especially my daughter I guess all kids are very literal but she is yeah literal literal yeah I I
think God often that I trusted Christ before um right after I trusted crisis when um we got pregnant or my wife got pregnant
with our daughter but I thank God all the time I remember before she was born I looked at the show was like isn't it
great that she's not gonna have to grow up in the confusion that me and you do because there was a time my wife was
confused too yeah and isn't it great because I know the answers to give her not because of anything in myself but
because the word clearly states the court clearly states it the gospel is so much of a part
of my life like when we were going through our adoption process my whole prayer was whoever you bring into our
life God whoever it is boy or girl whatever I know she's going to hear the gospel yeah like that that's the whole
thing yeah so if that doesn't let me get a hold of myself here
if the gospel is not as good as it is and free as it is like there's no point in life yeah I agree I
agree it gave me it gave me um a reason to live it seems like um not
that I didn't want to live before when I was going through all that stuff it just it is it's just such a fire you know for
me to get through anything to to uh go through anything I think now I tell
people a lot that my life really didn't get hard till I trusted Christ it's like all these things I chose a Christ and
all these things started coming down on me it's like uh close people started passing away and just some tragedies and
stuff like that and uh um I just think
you know the whole time that there's just been this fire lit by what The God Who Christ is and what the gospel is and
it's I used to think is this ever going to run out like yeah it's just one message yeah it's just one message like
am I ever gonna get tired of it I haven't gotten tired of it yet because it's sufficient yeah it meets every need
you can and you can really mind it's such a simple message but you can mine the depths of it it seems like forever
and the word is just all about it and um it it causes me grief like I'll be
honest sometimes I even get a little angry when I hear people say like well I've moved past the gospel
I went into deeper things more spiritual things and two things become true about that person number one they look back to
themselves for their accumulation of knowledge and number two they don't share their faith yeah because the deeper you do get into the word and
deeper practices there are things that you're not going to tell a new believer that are just deep they just come with
experience you want to be washed in the blood yeah like you know things that they're not going to understand but what that the danger that comes with that is
you're you're you're getting further away from the door yeah you're getting further away from where people are yeah
you gotta you still gotta Reach people somebody reached to you yeah and people get deeper into the church deeper into
the library deeper into the books and they get so spiritually fat that they're useless for the Lost person yeah because
they're going how are they going to understand perpetuation and all that kind of stuff it's like it's simple look and live just do what the words just do
what the word says yeah it's a very uh the more the more I went on the the more the Bible became less uh I don't want to
say spiritualized because the word is is spared but it um or it's from the Holy Spirit and it's
it's God's word but what I mean by spiritualized it's it's almost mystical mystical and it became so practical to
me yeah these things are so practical in my life absolutely and don't you want
practical advice to know how to live your life and do the things that God wants you to do or do you want this mystical thing where you're always
trying to grab at it you don't quite get and you think why does this person have that and I don't have that and you're just waiting for it but it's it's a
practical book because obviously it corresponds to reality because it is reality because it's God's word so yeah
um yeah the gospel is uh it's been
like I said my reason for living for since I've trusted Christ it's just been the five for and it just it informs
every area of my life how I raise my daughter how I treat my wife what I do throughout my life how I conduct my business it's just
you know I think someone cuts me off in traffic I think you know in my old sinful self I need to
let that guy know that he cut me off I need to do something like yell out the window maybe some explicitives or
something like that but I I stopped myself because I think
what if I go up to this gas station up here I'm about to go to and this man's gonna be here and I'm just the man that
just yelled at him so is he ever going to listen to me about eternal life it informs everything it's
like every thought is wrapped around this thing and uh I haven't gotten over it yet I think the most it's like
succinct probably best way to put it is like Paul I I desire to know one thing
yeah Christ and him crucified yes th